Wow thats a ton of money!!

[BunnyLiz]

Just to recap-  Rose died under the care of my old vet, im not sure but believe more could have been done, something-anything.  However she did pass quickly, so i am going to be unhappy with this old vet regardless, simply because it wasnt easy and they didnt fix it.  Rose passed.  Got Lucy, then toke Hammer and Lucy for a check up, where hammer got his teeth filed, got a penicilin shot just in case Rose gave him something.  Hammer stopped eating after that.  Either from illness or depression or pain or reaction to the shot im not positive.  He went back to the vet, sent home with Reglan and Beneback, given sub q fliuds as well as critical care.  He didnt improve, went to the new vet.  In the end the new vet found nothing wrong and thinks he was in to much pain from his teeth being filed to eat.  The new vet uses more and update tools for this, and sedation.  There was actaully nothing wrong with his teeth to begin with, the old vet said it was a precation and i being stupid didnt question it.  So he was sent home from the new vet with all the same meds plus pain meds.  He improved in.. maybe 2 days.  So i had found my new vet, though they are twice the price of the other, their safety is most important in the end. 

Well called my new vet to talk about spaying Lucy.  Holy cow they are expensive!  The surgery, pain meds, all the iv and fluids during surgery, and blood work is $500.  Wow.  I want the best for her, but $500 is just not really doable at this point.  My mom lost her second job, plus all my recent vet bills adding up to maybe $400.  So all the savings laying around and my rabbit money is gone.  The old vet is $110 for the surgery, not including bloodwork or pain meds but they are cheap, so maybe $200 at most, but probably less.  I wouldnt normally be considering this to much but thats a huge price difference.  So sent the old vet an email of questions from the HRS but there arent many so just wondering if anyone has an questions to add?  If their answers are bad Im not sure what to do, wait a long time and save I guess.  Ill copy and paste the email. 

Hello,

We have a bunny that we will be looking to get spayed in the near future. She is in your system as No Name but does now have a name. It is Lucy.  I must admit I have some reservations about bringing her to your office for this procedure.  We recently lost a bunny.  After that we brought her and our other bunny Hammer in for a check up. Immediately following this Hammer refused to eat.  He was again seen at your office.  After several more days and he was still not better we took him to another vet. Only explanation they could come up with was that his teeth had been filed and he was in too much pain to eat.  They put him on pain med and within a few days he was eating normally again.  They informed me they only do this under sedation and with newer tools for this procedure, and only when necessary. I honestly don’t know if that is what was wrong with Hammer.  I only know we could have easily lost him too, with no signs of any illness.  You guys did do surgery on Hammer before and we had no problems from that. However I believe a spay is a bit more invasive so I have some specific questions I hope you can answer for me.

1 How many rabbit spays have been performed in the last year?

2 What was the success rate of those spays?

3 Do you remove both the uterus and ovaries?

4 What anesthetics are used?

5 Can Lucy be sent home with antibiotics and pain medicine? If so what medicines

[BunnyLiz]

Ran out of room in the normal post! here is the rest.

6 Is this an out patient surgery?

I hope I have not offended anyone with these questions. Your staff, and [name removed] have always been very friendly and courteous. I only think it’s fair to address these concerns in order to make a decision on where we will go in the future for the well being of our pets. I thank you for your time.

[Sarita]

Well, they don’t normally require antibiotics though. Unless this is a test question for him.

Let us know how or if they end up answering the questions.

[Sarita]

Or is there any other vet around you that you might look at.

[BunnyLiz]

Yea id never heard of antibiotics either but thats what the HRS said so I figured it was normal

[BunnyLiz]

Nope no other vets that sound like they know what they are talking about.

[jerseygirl]

If it were me I would keep the issue about Rose and Hammer’s the teeth filing separate from this. I would however bring it up with the vet when you next speak.  It’s a practice they may need to review. They need to know your reservations and that you would not want this procedure done like this in the future.

Regarding the spay, I would also ask about the fasting (thou you may have done this already when Hammer was fixed?) Also, how they go about bringing a rabbit out of anesthesia – attending closely.

[BunnyLiz]

Yes I did ask abou fasting when Hammer was neutered and they passed that test. Ill ask them about how they bring them out of anesthesia, but forgive me for not so rabbit vet savvy, but what should their answer be? lol. Just that they watch them closely and monitor until they are out of it?

[jerseygirl]

I disagree, you are rabbit savvy! This is just something I would ask about now after reading about how some rabbits can come out of it with a jolt. If the have someone there attending that can brace the rabbit I would think that would help prevent the rabbit moving in a way that would injure them. It’s really just me over thinking things!

[MooBunnay]

I would agree with Jerseygirl that it is important that someone is with the rabbit until they wake up. I don’t know if this is a normal practice or not, but I agree that it is important.

I have brought several rescue bunnies in for spays, and actually have not been sent home with pain meds on any of them. I think that it might have been helpful, but I guess it is not absolutely necessary because the rescue workers that sent the bunnies to those vets seemed OK with it. If I had the option though, I’d want the pain medicine just because it takes so long for females to return to normal after a spay.

[BunnyLiz]

Thats fine, over thinking things is good sometimes! And in this case i do think its good. How often can you really over think anything to do with rabbits? Its definitely not possible to over think rabbit behavior thats for sure, never can really figure them out!

[BunnyLiz]

Yea i really want the pain meds, ill be a nervous wreck with them, id hate to think about what id do without them. Im sure ill already be freaking out when she doesnt bounce back. A little off topic, but 2 nights ago I had the worst nightmare ever. It was the night Rose passed, all the details there. I remember the song i was playing, the rug in her cage, the pillow she was on, which blanket was in her cage etc etc. Every detail was in the dream. Well it all replayed in my head, and when all was done and I was holding Rose, I looked into Hammers cage and he was dead. Then looked into Rose’s/now Lucy’s cage and Lucy was dead too. Woke up then and just cried for I dont know how long. It was absolutely horrible. That was the same night that I started to look into spaying Lucy. So I think not being over Rose, Hammer scaring me with his not eating recently, and finally thinking about spaying Lucy just pushed it over the top for me, ya know? So I dont even want to think about what ill be dreaming about the night before she goes in! Ill be so nervous i wont be able to sleep probably.

[MooBunnay]

Oh no – I’m sorry to hear about the bad dreams. If you are feeling very panicky, give yourself a few days to calm down before scheduling the appointment, because it will be important to Lucy that you can be calm when you are comforting her. It is definitely best for Lucy’s health that you are spaying her, and we will all be able to give you tips and advice as she recovers from the spay. In addition, you can always contact your vet with any issues. You can distract yourself the day of the spay by making preparations for Lucy coming home, by putting some nice soft blankets in her cage, and grocery shopping for her favorite veg and treats, and by doing some research on post-spay care so that you will be confident in yourself when she gets home. I know that the fact you are so concerned means you are a great bunny mom, and Lucy is in great hands!

[BunnyLiz]

Yea im waiting for a while before I actually do it. She doesnt weigh much either so hopefully she will gain some in a month. I need a break and she still isnt even on veggies yet. I want her on at least a few veggies so that I can maybe get her to eat something, that would be veggies after the spay. She is uninterested in them now, weird little thing! Ive been trying parsley and cilantro to start, but she wont even try them so ill try some romaine next time. Hammer has just about every other lettuce right now besides romaine, go figure.

[Beka27]

I hope you don’t mind but I removed the vet’s name from your post.

from the FAQ:

Negative Reviews of Pet Stores, Vet Hospitals, Individual Vets and any other individuals: So, you saw horrible conditions at a pet store, your vet was terrible, and you had to deal with the rudest receptionist. Those things are monumentally frustrating! We understand, but for your own legal protection keep actual names of individuals and businesses out of your posts. According to the Communications Decency Act, you, the individual poster in an online forum, is legally responsible for your statements, and so if a company or individual wants to pursue a lawsuit against you, they can track you down (IF a court orders it) by your IP address (even if it changes).

Nothing against you, I just don’t want you to get in trouble… ;o)

[BunnyLiz]

Dont mind at all Beka, thanks for keeping me out of trouble : )

[BinkyBunny]

Wow, what a bummer. $500 is expensive. Maybe you call the vet and talk to her? Let her know of the price difference and if there is any kind of break she can give.

I know that when I spend a ton of $$ at the vets, I can see on the next bill that my vet has given me a bit of a break on some things. Maybe yours would too?

[RabbitPam]

I don’t mean to confuse you, but I am of the opinion that if you have a bad experience from someone, don’t ever go back.
BB said what I was going to suggest, which is to negotiate price with the new vet. Obviously you are becoming a regular. She may be willing to reduce her price a bit, or arrange a longer term pay plan so you can pay for the neuter in installments.

My vet required an overnight stay, and my bunny didn’t need pain meds when she came home, but I insisted on buying one vial to have in the house just in case. They seemed to have done an excellent job and her recovery was fast. However, I was quoted a price of $250 initially. I decided to go with that since it’s my tried and true vet that was so good in the past. But by the time I was finished with adding in a nail trim and pain meds, it ended up being $336! I was too embarrassed to mention it to you guys, but they said the going rate these days was around $500 or more. So it’s possible that more qualified exotic vets are raising their prices. I honestly feel that, despite the added expense, you should stay away from the first vet. It has cost you plenty emotionally already. Perhaps you can negotiate a nail trim or teeth exam, general exam to be thrown into the price of the neuter.
BTW, do you have pet insurance? VPI doesn’t cover a basic speuter, but if you have additional health issues, it might be worth it.

[kralspace]

Yeah, it can be expensive. I live close to Waco, Tx and the only vet that spays rabbits was $450. We kept getting cancelled and I found out that he’s very elderly and has bad arthritis in his hands, that’s why he was cancelling out.

The NTRS gave me the number of the vet their rescue uses in Dallas. It was not only a lot cheaper ($130) but included all the pain meds and I was much more at ease knowing that this was an everyday thing for that vet. I took the day off and drove the 100 miles to get Pringles there by 7am and then slept in the car and read a book until she was ready to go at 5 pm and it was well worth it.

They called me in several times when I could see her in recovery and sit with her a while and I feel she got excellent care. They called and checked on us several days later.

[Beka27]

I would continue to look around in the area (and outside of the area… even up to an hour or so away.) Contact the rescues near you, see if they have any suggestions for anyone. I agree that I’d be hesitant to go back to the first vet. If he was out of date on the equipment, and had a backward view of rabbit’s teeth, what else might he be out of date about? I would be scared that you would find out what else he is lacking, but too late. Spays are invasive. Neuters are generally much easier for them to bounce back from. But this doesn’t mean there is not a “third vet” somewhere who might be able to do the spay for less than 500. Even if you only saw that vet twice (for the exam and the spay) and resumed seeing the second vet for your basic care…

[KitD]

I actually called our local humane soc and found out that they do 5-10 rabbit spneuters a week and I gained confidence from that and the fact that they told me that they had only lost 1 rabbit in the last 10 months. They don’t have an emerg clinic but for a one time scheduled surg I felt pretty reasured.
I hope that helps with your decision.

[KatnipCrzy]

One of the biggest differences in cost of spay you will find is probably anesthesia.  Pets get a premed either injection or mask with gas, in order to get them relaxed enough to intubate them.  And once they are intubated there are different gas anesthetics. 

The safer the gas or injection is considered the more typically expensive it is- the ones that are considered to be safer are generally even used in human medicine/surgery.  So costly injectable drugs and gas anesthesia really do add up quickly- but people never really understand that is one of the things they are shopping around for when asking about price.

Another is bloodwork and fluids (whether IV or SQ) and pain meds given at surgery time and sent home- some clinics do not consider these optional and include it in the price- other clinics are OK without giving pain meds, but the charges for each of these things adds up too.

What anesthesia used greatly affects they way that they wake up- gas is very quick acting (at least isoflorane and sevoflorane)- once a pet is no longer getting gas they can wake up quickly- that is why their anesthesia level needs to be monitored thru out the procedure.  But if an injectable was used to get them to “relax” enough to admin gas anesthesia- if they are not the safer quick acting drugs- that delays recovery from anesthesia.

You are obviously very concerned about getting Lucy spayed- I would ask what anesthesia injectable and inhalant (gas) that both vets use- and use that to help base your decision.  If you post the results- you can get some opinions from me and other rabbit saavy sources too.

As for the antibiotics- I can understand an injection given at time of surgery-spay and neuter.  It is very commonly given as a 1 time injection at time of surgery.  But any vet that sends home antibiotics to be given at home makes me wonder if they are questioning if their spay and neuter was sterile- which it should be.  Dental surgeries, bone surgeries, wound surgeries- are different altogether and often need antibiotics because infection may already be present or higher risk.

[skunklionshow]

That seemed very expensive to me.  I believe that the largest quote I rec’d for Jessi’s spay was $350.  I ended up going w/ the vet I found after her post-oreo cookie fight.  I think that w/ meds, prescreen bloodwork it was almost $250.   I do agree w/ what someone said…you have some MAJOR trauma from your experience w/ the old vet.  My concern is that that trauma is going to weigh even more on your emotional state if you do decide to return to them.  Sometimes, peace of mind is more important than money.

W/ that, I agree w/ Katnip to ask about the meds they use for anesthesia.  I think she has had more specific posts on the different meds and preferred blends, etc.  She is correct that depending on the anesthesia used will affect the cost as some are more costly than others.  I also agree to ask bunny rescues and obtain a third quote.  I would discuss this w/ new vet.  It doesn’t hurt to ask & maybe they can explain their pricing structure to you.  My vet frequently gives discounts to me…usually depending on my giving referrals or # of visits.  When I schedule all my cats @ once for their yearly’s, I get a discount b/c it’s one vet and one tech for a blocked set amt of time.  That I found out after just making an off-handed statement about it and the practice said “hell yeah, we’ll give you a discount for that!”

Just my almost doctoral opinion of your dream.  My fav dream analysis states that you need to focus on what the specific feelings were associated w/ the dream.  Obviously loss and fear of loss….etc. I don’t think your dream was fortelling or ESP based, I think you’re scared and you would be heart-broken and likely not forgive yourself for going back to old vet.  If that’s the case I think you answered some of your own questions and/or concerns…..Take care!

[BunnyLiz]

Okay well I did TONS of calling around and found a vet! I think. They were not listed in the HRS, just googled for vets near me. It a bit far away, but thats alright. I called to many places to remember how much it was exactly, but under 200 I believe. They seemed extremely rabbit savvy. A large part of their clients are ‘pocket pets’ so everything for rabbits to hamsters. They do tons of surgery on all types of small pets, lots of rabbits. I was impressed, they use something like air tight sterile rooms and everything for surgery. Some sort of water heater blanket thing through the whole thing to keep temperature stable. A doctor and tech not involved in the surgery part monitor the rabbit all through surgery, then a tech until they are fully awake and okay. I remember they use injection and gas for putting them under, ill ask what kinds and get back to you. But they seem awesome. And better yet, 24/7 emergency services available. One doctor and one tech is always on call, no matter what time. If it is serious they meet you at the office, if not they refer you to a 24/7 emergency hospital. The emergency hospital doesnt not specialize in rabbits but knows about them and will care for them. So if its something complicated the vet and tech come in, if the hospital can handle it you go there. Sounds pretty ideal to me!

[Beka27]

YES, definitely get the info that Katnip recommended. I’m curious to hear how they stack up to what she said. As a general rule, the more vets you know and are aware of, the better. You just had this very stressful experience so it’s good to know that some places may be good for emergencies, some are good for more routine care.

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

I just got back and am waaay behind in reading posts so I just read your original post and not the responses but here’s where I’d weigh in.

First -dont’ blame yourself for not asking questions about hammer’s teeth-Vets like all respected professionsals(drs, lawyers etc) have education and experience are hard to question-when they tell you something you trust it! Do not blame yourself-just learn and move on *hugs*

The huge cost for the spay-well that tells me that they do things right. I always get people telling me our shelter pays way too much for spay/neuters-but sorry-my vet uses state of the art anestetic and has a vet tech sit with the rabbit until he/she has woken up AND eaten. She also has ALL Staff present for the surgey and epi drawn up in case. I know it’s more expensive then other clinics-but she’s never lost a rabbit for any reason and I trust her.

Cost is a huge issue, for everyone-especially considering the times.

500$ is alot but not out there-I paid almost four hundred for a spay for Kahlua, and we paid almost six hundred for Baby to get spayed, tested and xrayed. Bunnies are expensive and I don’t think this vet’s price is out of line at all. In contrast the ‘bad’ vet-I think 110$ is out of line in a bad way

My adivice-DO NOT settle for the vet you don’t trust even though it’s five times cheaper. Just wait. Even if she waits until she’s a year or older that’s fine-she’ll be fine. Save your pennies-and ask the vet to make payments-I’m confident that your vet (the one you like!!) will allow a few payments given the high cost of the spay. Don’t rush into it, I know you want to bond them-you may even be able to even though she’s not spayed-thats against conventional wisdom but it’s always possible Kokanee and Kahlua insta-bonded and neither were spayed at the time! You can always wait to bond them of course and I wouldn’t rush into the spay for that reason.

After all the upset you’ve had I’d let things sit and spay when you have the cash *hugs*

[BinkyBunny]

I think you have received excellent advice and I have learned something more as well. The very first rabbit I ever had neutered was over 9 years ago and I paid $200 back then. Since then I have only adopted rescue rabbits who were already spayed or neutered and the total cost of the adoptions have always been under $100. So really, I have been rather sheltered from realistic spay/neuter costs and need to revisit what they cost today to give a fair judgment call! I will have to call around to a few very rabbit savvy vets to get quotes so I can be up to date with things.

[BunnyLiz]

Update! The old vet called today to anwer the questions. His answer were okay, but it wasnt over the top awesome. We talked about the teeth filling he does and he admits that may have been what caused Hammer’s problems. He said he doesnt put them under to do it because A- rabbits take awhile to bounce back after going under and B) because it is a cheap office and many of their clients could not afford care if they did this, it would raise prices a lot. But the good news is he promised to review this method and reconsider because ultimately they need to offer what is best, and this did have a big effect on Hammer. He also said other rabbits have gone without eating occasionally after he files their teeth, but nobody really complained/called/worried as much as I did so maybe he didnt realize they didnt just stop eating for a day but more like a week. He said sorry etc. and hopes he can restore my faith in his office, but Ill be going to the newest vet. So maybe he will stop filing teeth like this and less buns will be hurt and affected. I only wish Hammer didnt have to be the bun to bring this in the open! But he is fine now and has a new vet so Im grateful for at least that much.

[Sarita]

I’m glad you spoke with the vet and he knows your concerns.

Yes, it’s true that rabbits take awhile to bounce back after being sedated but I think the benefits do outweigh the risks. I do think that he should discuss with this clients about the procedures too and let them decide by giving them the benefits and risks both ways – I do not agree at all though about not sedating them in some way.

Pepe usually takes a full week to recover from his teeth trims but my vets always recommends metacam and critical care – he gets very bad molar spurs so either way he’s not eating – better to take the risk of the sedation than the pain of the teeth.

I’m glad you are staying with your new vet too – I think they sound much more competent.

[BinkyBunny]

I am so glad you called your old vet to let him know what happened with Hammer after the teeth filing. It was very good to hear that he was open to reviewing his methods to make a decision based on what is best for the animals.  I mean yes, of course, I understand wanting to provide a service that is affordable so that pets can get the treatment they need, but if the treatment itself ends up being to their detriment, then that not good. 

You just never know if egos will be involved and if some people in certain positions will be open to learning. So it looks like at least he is taking a positive step to review this.   I am always happy to hear about vets  that are willing to learn and change. A long time ago, I was at an emergency vet who really was struggling with knowing the best thing to do, but boy, he really cared. Got out all the books he could, learned as much as he could as fast as he could, and then he made sure to call  the next day to follow up and find out more when I was able to get to my regular vet. He didn’t have an ego, and just admitted he didn’t know what he needed to know to safely treat, but he really took the time to try and get it right and learn more. 

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

I ditto that! That’s fantastic he’ll review it and may start sedating them for the procedure. I think vets like all professionals need to be open to suggestions and feedback-and more importantly keeping current on research and staying up to date on procedures. That’s wonderful he was open about it-and that you had the guts to take him on! *huge pats on the back*

[Author]

Messages