question for experienced bonders

[chinphat]

As you all know we have been patiently been working Bunny and Noob together. Noob is clearly more dominant than Bunny. Bunny has been first to clean Noob on several occasions…but what I find confusing is that Noob will not clean Bunny or anyone else for that matter.

A perfect examply: Yesterday Bunny and Noob were placed in the tub with some lettuce. Bunny cleaned Noob for a few minutes then went to eating. Noob then pushed her head under Bunny’s face asking for more cleaning…which erupted into a scuffle over who is humping who (they do that often too, more often bunny submits first, and the submission gets faster each time it feels to me)

There are times when I’ve pet Noob for 15 minutes or so and she purrs, and when I put my hand down she doesn’t lick me, instead she runs off. This is quite the opposite of Bunny who has what appears to be a "clean me, then I clean you" mentality.

Is it normal for a bunny to never clean anyone or anything? Is this an offshoot of bonding perhaps?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Joe.

 

i’ve attached some photos so you guys can see what it is we are dealing with…(i hope)

in 0440/0441/0442 – bunny is relaxing (trying to display non aggresive behavior)

0445 is a view from the top, bunny is relax, Noob is…i dunno annoyed i guess?

0446 is a face off because Noob thumped at bunny

0447 more face off!

0448 – Bunny decides to eat, Noob…edging in for a cleaning command (i assume)

0449 – More edging by Noob

0450 /0451 – the scuffle starts for power and we seperated them.

 

p.s. – we are gonna visit the local rabbit sanctuary (this saturday) as they’ve agreed to provide some neutral ground for bonding assistance as well as any tips/tricks they can think of.

 

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[chinphat]

add more photos

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[Kokaneeandkahlua]

I don’t know how they get along so well but Kahlua NEVER grooms Kokanee…Kokanee asks for it, it looks so sad, Kokanee with her head down lookin for lovin and Kahlua ignoring her!
Lately I’ve caught kahlua doing a few quick grooms, and while I was napping the other day she snuck up and ‘groomed’ my whole forehead!!

So that’s my experience with the grooming-withholder!

[MarkBun]

Basically the Dominant bun doesn’t feel that the person in question is entitled to the privledge of their grooming. It is a way of them saying, “I’m better than you.” Sometimes I think Maryann started grooming only because she began to see other buns and wanted me to know that I was her #1 bunny/person.

So, no, it is not uncommon for the Dominant bun to not groom others.

[chinphat]

Kokaneeandkahlua – I didnt mean to give the impression that the rabbits get along, we still keep them seperated because Bunny is very aggresive in what she consider her territory (which is basically the entire house), as soon as we take them to a neutral spot (like the bath tub) Bunny/Noob scuffle, then Bunny submits.

At most, the rabbits spend 15 – 30 minutes together, but its a very uncomfortable and often fight filled few minutes. =/

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

Oh that doesn’t sound like fun…..Have you tried car rides?

[chinphat]

yup, care rides generally to one of two pet stores, where we can walk them around in a cart as neutral territory. They often fight even in neutral territory, but Bunny always submits and cleans Noob. Once we get home, Bunny kicks into super aggresive mode, I’ve had half a mind to let them fight…but that wont do much except end in a dead bunny somewhere

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

Oh darn! Umn..

you know what you could try, take them to the shelter and let them each pick a bunny friend they like; Then bonding won’t be so difficult and you can have FOUR BUNNIES!! Ok, I am just kidding-mostly!!

Have you tried looking at the “Photo journal” of bonding on this site? It’s really good, got some good tips and stuff….

[bigsis7]

Usually the more dominant bunny demands to be groomed because s/he the boss. She may be refusing to groom you becasue she doesn’t see you as her boss. Very cute pictures! iS bunny the calico-ish bunny? Very pretty!

[bigsis7]

Have you tried putting something scented on them to cover up their scent? And their cage/play area? This worked out great with my rats!

[Sarita]

I dunno – it’s hard to tell anything in those pictures cause I don’t see the scuffles you mention. Can you tell me a little more about the scuffles? How are they scuffling – there is always going to be someone trying to dominant until they get things worked out. How long are they scuffling and what exactly do you mean by scuffling? How long are they together before this scuffle starts?

I see the calico one doing a big bunny flop and that’s a good sign and she’s also grooming herself so that’s a good sign.

Have you tried getting them out of the bathtub and into a puppy pen to interact with each other?

[MooBunnay]

The first thing I noticed is the bunny flop! That is just really amazing to me that the bunny is so comfortable as to flop right in front of the other one Almost none of my buns groom me. I have one that will groom my feet in the middle of the night sometimes if she happens to jump up on the bed – but thats about it. I guess all my bunnies know they are in charge of me! I think it looks like you have some significant progress. I would recommend that when you bring them to the sanctuary you drive them there in the car together –

hey wait – I think I volunteer at your local sanctuary, NTRS? I was at a church event today, but if you brought them there, how did it go? Any progress?

[chinphat]

Hi MooBunnay,

Yea we went to NTRS today! its a shame you werent there, it was very nice to meet everyone there. I actually have a horrible memory so I can’t remember the names of everyone I met today, but Kristy was very helpful as was (I forgot her name =/) the woman that actually owned the house. They said we were actually very close to getting them bonded!

They loaned us a playpen to use and advised putting Noob in the general living area so that the rabbits get used to seeing each other, then when they get used to that, try getting them together in the same place.

Everyone was very excited with Bunny’s calico coat and was very pleased with the health condition of our rabbits. =P

Sarita ,

The scuffles according to NTRS are just the typical nipping, now that I know what to look for I can tell thats what it is. I thought perhaps before they were fighting badly, but it turns out it was not so.

Thanks for everyones input its been a big help!

[Gravehearted]

aww, I’m really glad to hear that things went so well at NTRS today and that your bunnies got a good bonding report

[Author]

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