Possible UTI or Malocussion?

[Tuyet2183]

Hi All,

So I’ve been on a journey with one of my rabbits. Lola who is 5 and spayed started showing blood in her urine. This looked different from her regular urine because: a. Urine output was less about a quarter size b. The urine would absorb into a towel and there would be specks of red on top of the towel. C. She also began peeing in weird places.

Treatment: called a bunch of clinics including our family vet + back up family vet. No one would take us and stat holiday was the next day. We tried critical care and water with cranberry juice (organic, 100%).

Other behaviours: she was pushing her stomach against the ground. She finally started losing movement of the back of her legs perhaps due to pain.

Vet visit #1: we had to take her to emergency with a non specialist. They suspected GI stasis and noted she has lowbody temp. Gave her SubQ fluids, burpnephrine(painkillers) and Metacam to take home. We also warmed up blankets in a dryer and gave her a cow beanie to keep her warm.

Vet visit #2: rabbit savvy vet emerg – vet seemed knowledgeable. We had an x-ray done confirming no GI stasis or obstruction. There is no stones in kidney or bladder. He gave  her another does of subq fluids and a motility drug. He gave us motility drug plus antacid to take home.

Behaviour: she would pee and it came out clear now. She would also drink it right after (not typical). She would also sit in her pee. We got her new hay and dandelions (natural diuretic + her favourite). She stopped pushing her stomach against the floor and started visiting her partner, moving around a bit more. Began drinking water ok her and will eat dandelions all day.

Two days later: I did not give her painkiller the day before but she would hunch and not eat dandelions. Realized she got urine scald. Treated it plus gave her Metacam. She began eating and drinking. Note we are still giving her critical care and I managed to soften some hay in water plus blend it in.

Today: she is eating dandelions, drinking water, no Metacam. She showed interest in pellets and hay but then her excitement died down after sniffing it. She really likes these oxbow heart treats and she got really excited for it (running around, bopping her head) – she ate half then stopped.

Lola is slowly improving – more urine output, more curiousity, grooming herself, cuddling with Lyle. However she is still not eating – losing weight quickly dropping to 1.8kg from 2.1kg. Given everything could she have teeth problems instead?

 

Thank you in advance! Enclosed are pictures.

[LBJ10]

The middle picture looks like regular red colored urine. Dandelions contain red pigments (beta carotene). But before, you said her urine was clear-ish with red streaks in it? Typically, this is a symptom of uterine cancer or an infection in the uterus. Since Lola is spayed, we can rule that out. The next thing would be something wrong with her bladder. The x-rays showed no stones, but a bad UTI would not show on an x-ray. Bladder pain could mimic the symptoms of gas pain (i.e. pushing stomach to the floor). Did the vet look at a urine sample?

More worrying is the fact that she was having trouble with her back legs. Did the vet consider EC as a possibility? We’ve had urinary symptoms-only EC cases here on BB.

[Tuyet2183]

Hi,

 

Thanks for the reply. She was on arugula and chard during that pic then we took her for the vet visits and tried to entice her appetite with dandelions. I was thinking the same that it may be concentrated coloured urine, but yes there some where I could see solid red specks sit on top of the towel and the urine soaked in.

She did regain the movement of her legs again and is moving great. I’ve only taken care of my past rabbit with e.cunniculi who ended up with head tilt and urinary issues. Do you think this looks like e.cunniculi?

The vet recommended monitoring her and continue syringe feeding her but for now I notice she didn’t want any hard foods and wants soft foods. She is one that love love loves her hay over fresh lettuce. So something is off. If she declines then he recommended an ultrasound. I read lots that they should be doing a urine sample and I was thinking of just expressing her bladder in a cup then giving it to them. They won’t let me in to handle her because of covid and neither vets were comfortable with getting a urine sample or checking her back molars for spurs which I have assisted with before.

[Asriel and Bombur]

Hey! Sorry about your poor bun. Sending vibes to you guys ❤️

I’m one of the ones LBJ was referring to with regards to urinary EC symptoms. If you can, I definitely think it’s worth a shot to get tested. Bombur has flare ups every few months or when he’s stressed. His major symptoms are incontinence/dribbling, and some times sludgy urine. But he’ll also get weak hind legs, drink excessively, and have bit of tummy trouble. Prior to his diagnosis they treated him for a UTI, but that didn’t work. The EC test is a bit expensive, but it’s honestly so worth it.

[LBJ10]

Hi A&B! Nice to see you back!

Tuyet – I wouldn’t rule EC out. When you mentioned weakness in the back legs, I was thinking “uh oh”. We are seeing more and more atypical EC cases… at least here on BB anyway. If I were you, I would ask the vet about it.

[jerseygirl]

{{{Lola}}}

How is she with her eating & appetite now?  Had you noticed any changes before all this in her eating behaviour?

It is possible there is some dental problem but this can occur simultaneously as kidney/urinary issue. Particularly if there is a metabolic disorder.  The clear urine is concerning… It can happen if a rabbit was not eating and only drinking water but it’s more likely a sign that there is something going on with her renal system. Along with the incontinence and urine scald and weightloss. Is she drinking a lot more water then she has in the past?  I also agree the EC can factor in here and also bring on some of these symptoms.

I feel bad to suggest this since youve just had 2 emergency visits, but I would discuss with your regular vet about the value in getting some bloodwork done, a urinalysis and EC test.

 

I read lots that they should be doing a urine sample and I was thinking of just expressing her bladder in a cup then giving it to them. They won’t let me in to handle her because of covid and neither vets were comfortable with getting a urine sample or checking her back molars for spurs which I have assisted with before.

 

I would ring ahead and ask about this! That would be great if you could get sample at home and drop it off. Just a urine test to begin with might be worthwhile. If there is infection, antibiotics could get her feeling more comfortable.  Especially if there is some cystitis.

If you have some hydrogen peroxide handy at home, you can try add some to any spots of urine you think may contain blood. When blood is present, you will get some bubbling happen. I dont think its a 100% foolproof test as it’s possible the peroxide will react with some other component in their urine from time to time. That said, I have tried it on regular pee puddle and seen no reaction, and very visible reaction on some pee I was almost certain had blood. That rabbit did have cystitis and need to go on antibiotic and some pain meds.

Just wanted to mention about dandelions, from what I recall, they are a pretty strong diuretic so be careful with those. I would ask vet about whether those can help or hinder in whatever she is dealing with.

@AsrielandBombur  Hi ! It’s nice to see you posting back on BB. Your 1st hand exp with an EC bun is always valued. Was it the titer test (2 weeks apart) that Bombur had or is there a newer test?  I cannot remember!  btw, I’ve sent you a PM about a thread we had re vet recommendations.

[Asriel and Bombur]

It’s good to be back LBJ and Jersey!

I think it took about two weeks to get the results. My vet suspected EC right away, so we tested immediately and he was given antibiotics while we waited for the results, just in case that cleared it up. The first bunch of flare ups he was given Oxibendazole, but more recently he’s been on Panacur.

it could be worth it to ask to be on Panacur while awaiting test results. It takes about 2-3 weeks to show progress on it anyways, and at the two week mark you need to get a refill for the remaining 2 weeks and a blood test to check white blood cell levels.

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