Possible Poison Ingestion?

[Bunstar]

Hi there, before I start, Mabel is better now and this happened in February but I wanted to get some input as this is still very fresh in my memory.

On February 9, 2020, my partner and I took out both rabbits one by one to clip nails. Mabel has always been skittish and uncooperative with this procedure, she twists and flails and tries to take risky jumps. She absolutely HATES being picked up and so I try to only pick her up when I need to, which was Feb 9. She is a beautiful black bun (BBB) and if you’ve tried clipping black nails you might know where this is going. I cut her quick, despite using a flashlight and the HRS pinch-pinch-clip method while my partner held her. The bleeding on her nail was pretty bad but I had styptic powder on hand and I used quite a bit trying to clot her bleeding nail. We weighed her and put her back in the bunny room where she immediately went under a box to lick herself and calm down and we left them alone because grooming day is always so hard on Mabel. I didn’t go back to the room until that evening with salad which she ate with gusto, back to normal!

Except when I went into the room the next morning she wouldn’t come out of her sleeping box.

I got on the floor to peek in and found her lying hunched in a ball. I thought she maybe had some gas and captured her to give her some ovol. When I placed her on the non-slip rug on my counter she couldn’t stand up and kicked her legs to the side repeatedly until I steadied her. She just didn’t know which way was up so I thought she had a stroke and even e.cuniculi entered my mind as it raced to figure out what was going on. So she didn’t eat that morning and I called the vet to explain what was going on. We took her to an emergency and it was declared she was ataxic and cachexic.

The ataxia part is an imbalance. Cachexic is massive muscle and weight loss due to underlying conditions. The emerg vet, who is trained in exotics, was pretty near close to crying and it took her a minute to compose herself. My partner and I both picked up on that and all three of us thought we were going home to say goodbye to Mabel. We were given antibiotics as a just-in-case for parasites. And we were given Metacam to help her with pain with instruction on a meal and medicine plan for the next ten days. I was grinding up hay and pellets with veggies and water to make a mash to force-feed her. I was putting diluted apple juice in too so she was getting hydrated. Two days after that emerg visit I went to my local vet for Critical Care (don’t worry, I already beat myself up pretty hard for not having that on hand in the first place) and continued this care regime. I had to pen up this sweet girl and she had to sleep separately from Hannibal which they did not like so I opened her pen so she could access the whole room again. Hannibal was being gentle with her and a cute little marshmallow friend to keep her warm. I had to chase her around 4 or 5 times each day to get the liquids, meds, and food into her. Her dewlap was constantly wet and caked with food, she wasn’t grooming herself and had wet hocks and a messy butt but we persevered.

It took two weeks of this dedicated routine and she actually got better. The ataxia we thought would never clear and she has gained back some weight. Her hip bones aren’t as sharp to the touch. She tends to keep her back feet together when she hops but they both work when she walks. Her front paws slide and she seems to have a hard time not sliding down to her belly all the time but she has made such a recovery like I don’t even know what to do with myself some days. Could I be Snow White, after all?

I know that was a long post but it didn’t seem right to post this update on Reddit.

This morning my partner and I were talking about how we need to clip her nails again but I am actually so terrified of this happening again. I went to my medicine cabinet and pulled out my styptic powder and discovered it expired in 2009! I didn’t even know it had a shelf life and here I let my senior rabbit lick it off her paws almost three months ago. So my ultimate question is can styptic powder cause a poisonous reaction in rabbits and what should I have on hand in case she bleeds again?

 

Here’s an older pic of Miss Mabel and her big sister Sansa.

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[Bam]

Hi and welcome to Binkybunny!

This is a remarkable story, thank you for sharing it!

I’m pretty certain the expired styptic powder could not have caused this. It has a shelf-life, but it’s not like it goes toxic with time, it’s about for how long the manufacturer guarantees it remains functional. Medical products as a rule keep a very long time after they have expired, if they are properly stored. Improperly stored styptic powder tend to cake and become useless for that reason.

The styptic powder would not explain the cachexia anyway. Wasting takes some time, it doesnt happen over night.

We have a member, Gina.Jenny, whose rabbit Podge suffered a series of strokes. It was dramatic and happened in an instant, which was a good thing because the owner saw it and could describe it to the vet. Podge recovered from this first stroke, which was deemed a vascular stroke (sometimes EC is referred to as a bunny stroke, but this was not EC).  It caused him him some hind end weakness and some balance issues. He also ate considerably more than before, without putting on excess weight.

I’m thinking perhaps your girl had a stroke, possibly a bigger one following smaller ones, because something must’ve been going on for some time, perhaps a few weeks, or she would not have become cachexic. The stress of the nail clipping could perhaps have been a trigger, but there’s no way to know. Podge’s stroke happened like lightning from a clear sky. That’s often how it happens in humans too.

You did a truly amazing job nursing her back! Thank you for being a wonderful and dedicated bun owner 💚

[Bunstar]

Thank you 🙂

What you said about the texture of the powder seems reasonable- it is still a powder somehow and I had it since 2007 when I got my first bunny and moved literally 10 times (no exaggeration, I was a uni student living on one-year contracts). I threw it out anyway as a precaution and will use cornstarch until I buy more styptic powder. I’ll ask y partner to hold Mabel and I’ll only do the absolute tips; I always try to get cute about it and clip a mm or so from the quick but that’s not easy to do with her black nails.

I’ll scour the forum to find posts about Podge. Thank you for sharing that, maybe she has ideas of things to look for. I’m mostly certain but not 100% certain that if it was a stroke, it was only the one and may have been related to whatever is underlying. I have been meaning to fire off an email to the emergency vet thanking her for her service that night and I’ll get in touch with my local vet about options for safely bringing Mabel in for an exam. I can weigh her when I get her up for her nails so I’ll know right away if she has gained back some weight. I can’t get Mabel to eat extra food but she does get a pinch of oats in her pellets for an extra treat.

 

[Bam]

Here is the thread I made for Podge when he’d had his first stroke: https://binkybunny.com/forums/topic/vibes-for-podge-please/

I have contacted Gina.Jenny about you, and hopefully she’ll reactivate her BB account, so she can read about your girl and maybe share bits of her experience with Podge.

Rolled oats are good, they as a rule dont upset the tummy and buns find them delicious! You can also give a few sunflower or pumpkin seeds to help her gain.

It is scary to clip black bunny nails! As things are now, it’s probably best to just do the tips. Also check underneath her feet for calluses/sore hocks which can happen when a bun isnt as mobile as it normally is or if it puts its weight funny on the feet due to a balance issue.

[Bunstar]

An angel! Thank you, that’s going above and beyond, so THANK YOU!

I didn’t think of seeds; I’ll pick up up both kinds you mentioned because if Mabel doesn’t eat them, I sure will!

I’ll also check her feet for signs of calluses and sore hocks. This is my second senior rabbit but so far, it’s slightly different experiences!

[Gina.Jenny]

Hi

It does sound similar to what we went through with Podge. I was fortunate that his bunny gf Gina was a very dedicated nurse and did a lot in terms of comforting Podge and helping keep him clean. It was certainly less stressful for Podge to be cleaned and groomed by another bunny as after his first stroke, he became wary of humans, whereas before, he’d been the friendliest of bunnies to everyone who came into the house.

Podge lost weight after his stroke and struggled to gain any even though he was eating more than usual, including more calorific foods such as the fibafirst sticks, rolled oats, and barley rings that are sold for horses. The barley rings are designed to get calories into horses, which means they are also good to use to get calories into underweight rabbits. We first used them when we took on Gina and Jenny, two malnourished rescues. You might like to consider trying barley rings, they are inexpensive, and easy to get from horse feed suppliers.

The other thing I found helped Podge was reiki. Reiki is a holistic therapy which I believe really made a big difference in Podge’s coordination and mobility. There are animal reiki practioners out there, but I actually did reiki training myself and became Podge’s reiki therapist. You only need level 1 reiki to give therapy to your own pet, so you could look into whether you think reiki might help Mabel.

 

[Bunstar]

Thank you so much for chiming in Gina.Jenny! I appreciate your advice and suggestions. I have never heard of barley rings, but I get my hay from a local co-op and they supply farm animals so they’ll definitely be my go-to to ask.

I saw some stuff about reiki last year at BunFest! I’ll be laid off in June so that will be a good time to invest the time into it. In the meantime, I’ll see what physio I can do with Mabel. Thing is, she has never liked me handling her in the four years since adoption. Nothing I do seems to change her mind- even sitting with her during the recovery period after her supposed stroke! She likes me enough when I have treats and food- I see more positive association training happening but when she’s super stressed she won’t eat! She’s a little anomaly but she’s my girl and I’ll try anything 🙂

Thanks, I will keep you updated.

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