Poppy’s sudden death

[Wolfgang]

Poppy died yesterday at only 3 1/2 years of age.

She was perfectly fine and acting normal in the morning, stretched in a funny way about 9, I suspected something wasn’t right when she went under the bed and started treatment for GI stasis – which she was prone to – when she didn’t come for lunch.

I’ve treated her for GI stasis before, have a very effective mix of medications and know how to perform stomach massage, but this must have been something different, she was dead by 3 pm.

They are free roam, have unlimited access to Timothy hay, get fresh organic greens – kale, collard greens, some spinach, that sort of thing – and for treats TINY pieces of carrot or apple (about thumbnail size) and a mix or dried herbs and flowers, all researched for safety. I am VERY careful to keep potentially hazardous things like rubber bands, staples, push pins well away from them, I get on all fours with the flashlight when I drop an apple seed. I let the water run for 2 minutes before filling their bowls to make sure there’s no lead in it, can’t do anything about chlorine, fluoride and all the other garbage the city adds. For toys, the get untreated wood and Rosewood brand balls made from seagrass, twigs and things. She was playing in one of her 3 sand boxes just the day before, loved to dig.

She was intact, but I never found any lumps on her, never saw anything even remotely resembling blood in her urine, never exhibited any symptoms of possible uterine or mammary cancer and she wasn’t deteriorating in any way at all, as I said: fine in the morning, fine before. If anything, she seemed to be perking up more, knowing Spring is almost here. Besides, I don’t believe that being intact would make you more prone to disease, the opposite seems to be the case in dogs and cats, this tendency to castrate everything that moves seems to me like the desire to cut off your head so you’ll never get a headache. The only local vet who has any idea what to do with rabbits also told me that cancers in female rabbits can occur but she does not see them often. The other vets either don’t take ‘exotics’ or don’t really know what they pretend to know, such as the VCA,  which is basically a ripoff racket. Add to that the fact that going to any vet right now is a freak show. I’ m sure you know why.

Sites listing possible causes for sudden death in rabbits are useless, they list only things that are inapplicable in Poppy’s case, an indoor rabbit with what is considered a near perfect diet, plenty of exercise and all that.

Poppy did seem to be somewhat ‘touchy’ healthwise, as a baby, it took a few months for both of her ears to stand up straight and she did, as mentioned, get GI stasis about 4 times during her very short life, twice treated by vets, twice by me. At this point, my best guess is that there may have been some congenital weakness or illness at play here.

I am in shock, gutted and confused and worried sick about her brother Peachy. So far, he seems unaffected and he is definitely more ‘solid’ generally.

Any thoughts or theories appreciated.

[DanaNM]

I’m so sorry for your loss, how shocking and horrible. 🙁

Are you in an area with RHDV2? In any sudden death that is the first thing that comes to my mind. If you have other rabbits, they would be at risk as well because it’s extremely contagious. There is some info about it here: https://binkybunny.com/forums/topic/please-read-rabbit-hemorrhagic-disease-rhdv2-outbreak-in-north-america/

There are sadly many things that can cause rabbits to suddenly “crash”, and they often present like things we know about. Stasis is a symptom rather than a disease in itself, and if she was prone to stasis it could mean she had a congenital issue, such as a heart condition.

I lost my boy Bunston in a similar way, and the vet said he could have looped a section of his intestine. I’ve also heard of rabbits experience total organ failure for unknown reasons.

It’s true that female rabbits are very prone to reproductive cancers (they have an incidence of around 60% by age 3-4, and the chances of them occurring increase with age from there) but it’s very unlikely that a cancer would cause a sudden death like you observed. Rather, reproductive cancers tend to reduce the life expectancy to around 6-7 in unspayed buns, instead of 9-12 in spayed buns.

Again I’m so so sorry for your loss, I hope you and Peachy can be a comfort to each other.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Cinnamon Bun]

I’m so sorry for your loss. I lost my bun, Binkie, very suddenly to GI stasis a few months ago… she was almost 3 years old. She was on the recovery road from stasis and then I suddenly lost her – it was so traumatic. I agree, it could’ve been RHVD2 if you are in an area with it. About your buns’ water, if there’s a possibility that there’s chlorine/fluoride in it, isn’t there any bottled water available? That’s a safer option. I know that there are tap filters too if you’re worried. Sending love to you and Peaches. This must’ve been such a horrible shock. Stay strong! ♡

[BZOO]

Sorry for your loss.  Hugs to you and yours.

[Wolfgang]

My rabbits are indoors, the wild rabbit population has declined drastically in my immediate vicinity over the past several years, but that probably has more to do with the building of one new subdivision after another than any other factors. My cat does go outside, but only inside a play tunnel, wild birds consist of mostly doves and finches, they don’t eat meat, hawks show up only occasionally. I do remove my shoes before coming in the house, have for decades. The hay comes from the same local feed store the rabbits came from, if I can’t feed them that, they will starve….Fresh veggies come from Sprouts.

So I looked at the RHD information at the Cornell University website and it all sounds very scary…until I get to the way it’s diagnosed. It says that a ‘PCR test’ confirms it. That is misinformation. PCR is not a test, it’s a multiplier. It takes whatever you give it and makes more of it, as many times as you tell it to. If you run enough cycles, it can find EVERYTHING in EVERYONE…. For more on the subject, watch some videos on Bitchute where Dr. Kary Mullis, the creator of the PCR procedure, explains what it is. Could be another way to sell a VAXXX to a bunch of frightened people.

[DanaNM]

@Wolfgang, I believe you are misinformed about RHDV2 diagnosis and the working mechanism of PCR tests. They do not create something out of nothing, and rabbits do not naturally carry the RHDV virus in any form.

RHDV2 causes rapid death and has extremely high mortality in wild and domestic rabbits (between 60-100% mortality has been observed in rabbit farms). If you are within an outbreak area, and have seen declines in wild rabbits, it is possible that RHDV2 is to blame, even if she was indoors, because of how contagious it is. If that’s the case, your other rabbit would be at high risk, so monitor him closely.

It is highly contagious and long lasting in the environment, and can be carried in on shoes, feed, and insects. It has been spreading across North America and Africa in the last 2 years, and has been in Australia and Europe for longer, and has been causing many deaths of rabbits globally.

Again I’m sorry for the loss of your rabbit. I just wanted to share this info to make sure others are informed of the risks of RHDV2.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Bam]

I’m very sorry for your loss too. I hope Peachy will be fine.

Many things can happen with rabbits even if they’re kept in excellent conditions. If Poppy had some congenital defect, as you suspect, she would probably have had a much shorter life without the great care you gave her.

Frances Harcourt-Brown, author of the first edition of the Textbook of Rabbit Medicine, lists several causes of sudden death in rabbits. Here is a link to her web page where she writes about sudden unexpected death in rabbits. In the upper left corner you find a link to the list of possible causes of sudden death: https://www.harcourt-brown.co.uk/articles/sudden-or-unexpected-death 

RVHD is sadly a very real disease.  We had the first cases of RVHD1 here in 2011. PCR is not only used to detect or screen for viruses or other pathogens, it’s for example widely used in forensics and archeology. It multiplies genetic material from really tiny samples, but it can’t create genetic material. When they use PCR to screen for MRSA it’s to rule out MRSA in the samples that test negative. Then they go on to culture the positive samples and only about half or so will actually grow. So it doesn’t say if the genetic material found with PCR is actually capable of causing disease, but the fact that it’s there means it is there. It doesn’t just materialize out of nothing.

[HoneybunAndElliott]

I’m so sorry to read about your Poppy and that your time with her was cut so short. though a bit older, both of my bunny’s passed away unexpectedly this week in similar circumstances with no real health issues so I can understand how painful it is and that you’re looking for answers.

I would lean towards it being something viral/infectious with it happening so quickly. it sounds like you were doing everything you could to keep your buns safe and are a wonderful owner. its clear you have spent a lot of time researching how to give the buns a perfect diet and lifestyle and had everything just right for them, a truly caring bunny owner in every way. I hope Peachy is doing okay and that you can comfort eachother. the vet we spoke to said the only way to tell is do a post mortem but we chose not to as she said with bunnies they often come back inconclusive anyway, not sure how true that is. to he honest the vet that spoke to us afterwards didn’t seem overly knowledgeable and was quite vague. we didn’t get one as we couldn’t bear the thought of his body being disturbed any more. again I’m so sorry and if you need someone to talk to dont hesitate to message x

[Wolfgang]

@HoneybunAndElliott – Peachy is fine, so is Coco – the little one introduced in June, they don’t quite get along yet – there really isn’t anything I could be doing in terms of bio safety that I’m not already doing short of going coo-coo bananas with Lysol like some people you’ve probably seen…..Which would do more harm than good. Your experience with vets sounds familiar, most of them don’t know nearly as much as they pretend to know. I have quite the library and by now probably know about as much about ‘exotics’ as they do, at least when it comes to actual hands-on experience.

Example: Back in the mid-00s, I got a quasi-albino ferret (Wiggles) from PetCo, who at age 3 developed the dreaded adrenal gland condition ferrets are famous for, lost his appetite, most of the fur from his back and tail and was just wasting away. Inquiries at the 2 or 3 vets who even knew anything about ferrets revealed that the surgery to remove his adrenal gland would cost around $ 1000 and there was no guarantee that that would fix the problem. That did not sound very good, so I decided to go a different route. Looking through my books, I came up with an herbal supplement mix that I sprinkled on FerretVite, a high protein paste that was the only thing he would still eat and within 2-3 months, his appetite came back – although he would no longer eat the Marshall’s ferret food, only Iams cat food – his fur grew back, thicker and softer than ever and now pure white instead of white/brown – he became his naughty ankle-biting self again and lived for another 3 years, not bad for an albino ferret.

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