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Forum DIET & CARE Podge and his poops

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    • Gina.Jenny
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      In spite of probiotics, and a good diet, Podge’s poops are still not perfect, though a lot better than they were. His ‘peppercorns’ have pretty much stopped since shifting his diet slowly from market veg to dandelion stalks, goose grass and giant daisy leaves.

      I’m taking him to the vets on Wednesday, to see if he might have megacolon, and that is why his poops are so irregular, please send him so positive vibes for the vet visit.

      These are from the last few hours, and are the best he does, after being out on the grass all morning and being given loads of dandelion stalks.

      It was cos I thought megacolon might be the reason behind Podge’s misshapen poops that I did all the grass and dandelion drying a week or so back, and why I’ve sewn loads of seeds. I had already sewn coriander, parsley, nasturtiums, celery kale and salad leaves. Today I’ve added carrots, for the tops, sprouting broccoli, sprouts, and cauliflower. Although too much calabrese can cause gas, small portions should hopefully be ok, and they grow well. If it is megacolon, Podge will need lots of wet greens every day, and the dried stuff will be good during the winter, alongside home grown fresh veg and herbs.


    • blubudgie
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      Good luck at the vets!


    • Gina.Jenny
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      These are Podge’s poops from overnight, on A4 sheet of paper. (he does his in the middle of the hay box, Gina does hers in a corner so easy to tell apart)

      Podge started probiotics on 17th April, so about 7 weeks ago, these are way way better than they were, but on the super healthy bunny diet he gets, they should be show case material, like Gina’s perfect, even, little spheres.


    • jerseygirl
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      My first thoughts were teeth or mega colon. Jersey’s output was a lot like this.

      Is the vet you see familiar with mega colon in rabbits? It can be really challenging it you’re the one introducing the concept to them.

      If you haven’t already, I’d get in touch with redbunbun as she’s dealing with MC in Sukka. I believe she’s part of a facebook group too, that focuses on these rabbits.

      Good luck to you and Podgey!


    • Gina.Jenny
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      His teeth seem fine, judging by the way he crunches up Select Science, so megacolon seems likely. I’m packaging his poops up for the next few days, so the vet can see them


    • Bam
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      A tummy that’s go be out of whack can need a long time to recover, three months of hay only is sometimes recommended by vets. what you’re doing now is obviously working, so I think you should just keep that up.

      Edit: But of course, consult with the vet. High fiber diet is the way to go, and the fact that Podge was “solid” when you got him of course means he doesn’t have a huge nutrient-absorption-problem the way Redbunbun’s bunny Sukka had (has, since it’s a chronic condition, only she’s managed to turn it around really well with a well-thought-out diet). Redbunbun has through good contact with her vet gotten some prescription drugs (metclopramide, metacam) that can be good to have on hand when you have a megacolon bun. The fact that his appetite is good and you’ve not had a GI stasis-like episode yet also speaks in Podge’s favour.

      Please keep us updated!


    • Azerane
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      The poop shapes and sizes are very erratic, I’ve no experience with megacolon but from what I’ve read it certainly looks like a likely candidate. Best wishes for the vet visit.


    • Gina.Jenny
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      These are the largest and smallest from one poop pile, so the vet can clearly see the variation in one ‘batch’ of poops

      you can see some are tiny, others over 2 cm


    • Bam
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      Great picture! It does look like the pics you get when you google megacolon bunny.


    • Gina.Jenny
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      Podge will have been with us 11 weeks, when he sees the vet on Wed. At first, I was hoping it was just a reaction to the stress of the journey here and maybe the four days of bonding with Gina, he hasn’t shown any signs of being stressed since. I’ve delayed going to the vets about this, as I have been concerned the visit to the vets itself could be stressful enough to upset his poor tum, but when I rang to arrange his jabs, I explained about the poops, and they said he needed to be seen about this before they would book him in for his jabs, so he needs to go. I think I’ll bring Gina too, to help Podge’s stress levels, and avoid upsetting their bond, which though strong, is still newish. I’ll bring the probiotics too.


    • Bam
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      By all means bring Gina too. Bonded buns should always go together to the vet if possible. Or the bond can suffer if one buns comes home and smells differently.

      I can see how they would want to see him regarding the tum before the jabs. You never give jabs to buns that can have an ongoing infection of some sort that is engaging the immune-system. If they deem it’s not an infection/worm infestation (which it most likely isn’t but they can’t know until they’ve seen him and your excellent poop-pics) he can probably have the jab there and then, they always keep that vaccine in stock, it’s standard in the UK.


    • Gina.Jenny
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      I was told over the phone they don’t do the jabs before the year is up? And last year’s jab was 1st July, so they aren’t likely to give it this visit.


    • Bam
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      Oh, ok, I thought his jab was due now. It’s true you shouldn’t over-vaccinate. But my vets gives the jab before a whole year has passed, they send a postcard like a month in advance and you can book the bun in straight away (Nobivac Myxo-RVD). I tend to wait until the year-mark though (I have a bunny-diary for important dates). But different vets have different practices. 


    • Gina.Jenny
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      I thought it wise to contact them in good time, I’m glad I did!


    • jerseygirl
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      Definitely odd looking poopies. One of the things I was told about when I first learnt of megacolon was lactulose. It helps hydrate the ingesta and so is helpful if a rabbit with megacolon is prone to blockages. MC can present as quite small, dry misshapen poo’s early on, then the bigger “marshmellowy” poops occur. I’m guessing if a bun was on lactulose, you’d be seeing more of the big, softer hydrated poo’s. 

      Given his poop history, it might still be related to gut imbalance. And if the gut had a slow down. Are the big moist poo’s quite smelly? They don’t look as fibrous as other fecals so possibly it’s some dysbiosis going on? 

      Had he had some stress prior to producing these big poo’s?
      My memory is poor – did you have Podge on antibiotics at any point? 


      I would ask if they can have their vaccinations a bit earlier. I was reading about this vet that gave a lecture to rabbit owners and he was prompting people to get them done at 10-11 months. He was seeing cases of myxo in vaccinated rabbits even though the full year hadn’t lapsed. The vaccine company claims it should cover them for 13 month but this vet was seeing something different in practice.
      Also, if your vet isn’t aware of the new RHDV2 vaccine, prompt them to get their orders in. It should be available from middle of this month.

      This is the notice that RWAF put out about it. GJ, sorry if you are already aware. I thought I’d post it anyway in case other UK members are reading.

      We are pleased to announce that after long discussions with Filavie, a vaccine manufacturer in France, and NVS, a Veterinary Wholesalers in the UK, we will very shortly have, for sale in the UK, a vaccine against RHD2. This also covers RHD1. The full order should be in stock from Mid June, with relatively small amounts available before then. Please ask your vet to contact NVS to discuss exact anticipated stock arrival dates and to assist them with some idea of expected demand.
      You still need to vaccinate your rabbits with Nobivac as previously, please discuss this with your vet.
      We are enormously grateful to our wonderful Vet Dr Richard Saunders for doing the necessary research and negotiation with the manufactuer, then arranging the necessary import paperwork , and then liasing with NVS in order for them to be able to supply it. On behalf of Bunnies everywhere we thank you Richard!

      Mmm… Ive just realised they are saying it also covers RHD1, but still saying to get Nobivac shots- which covers that also.


    • Gina.Jenny
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      As far as I can tell, Podge has been happily stress free for the past 10 weeks, and if he took antibiotics prior to coming here, I wasn’t told. His poops went from small and hard to big and soft after starting him on the probiotics, plus lots of ‘forage’ and fresh grass. Too much leafy stuff and he produces what I think might be uneaten cecal ‘slugs’, dandelion stalks don’t cause this, and nope, his poops don’t generally smell. I’ve read about using lactulose, also epsom salts?

      From what his foster mum said, he got whatever food was donated, so he might have had sudden changes between pellets, or worst still, times where he got bunny muesli. He apparently got whole carrots at a time, and I think too much sugar can also upset the gut, though all those carrots, plus lack of exercise, is my guess why he arrived ‘solid’. He dropped from approx 2.85 kg to 2.44 kg in the first 3 weeks here, since then his weight has stayed steady at 2.44 kg, every time he was weighed. I use the Supreme Science Select pellets, which he loves, and are a nice high 25% fibre for his poor tum.

      Most days, he and the others are out on the grass from 6am to 6pm, give or take an hour. The grass is beautifully rich in dandelions, daisies and clover. I pick and feed dandelion stalks and long grasses as bonding treats each time I go out to check nobunny is digging burrows out of the runs (Gina managed that last year, but thankfully hopped her way into the house, equally thankfully, the back door was wide open). They have two big boxes of hay per bunny pair overnight, which is changed every other day. Podge has got wise to the probiotics, and won’t take them unless on carrot, so he gets one thin slice each day, with his probiotics neatly piled on top.

      He isn’t altered, the rescue said their vet advised against it, as too risky, as his testicles are too deeply embedded in his abdomen. When I registered him at his new vet, I was told this could be a long term cancer risk, so I will discuss this on Wed too.


    • jerseygirl
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      Is this what you would call a cecal slug?  Click  

      He isn’t altered, the rescue said their vet advised against it, as too risky, as his testicles are too deeply embedded in his abdomen. When I registered him at his new vet, I was told this could be a long term cancer risk, so I will discuss this on Wed too.

      I wonder if they could affect the intestines?


    • Gina.Jenny
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      I think they meant the testicles themselves were at higher risk of becoming cancerous when left embedded in the abdomen?

      His slugs don’t look quite like that, more like almost black, shiny toothpaste…


    • jerseygirl
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      This is probably a silly theory but do you think it is possible he was mistaken for a female and a spay attempted? Can you feel a scar on his abdomen? Will he let you touch??!!!


    • Gina.Jenny
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      No, I don’t think so

      I have tried to see if I can see anything ‘male’ down there, when doing the weekly groom and check on a Sunday evening, but no sign of anything obvious, or of anything having been done.

      Apart from his poops, he otherwise seems fine, racing up and down the stairs during floor time, leaping on and of furniture, binkying, etc. No signs at all of stress or discomfort


    • jerseygirl
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      I think they meant the testicles themselves were at higher risk of becoming cancerous when left embedded in the abdomen?

      I vaguely rememeber it being because they are at warmer temperature then they are supposed to be, being still up in the body.
      But I was curious if the space they take up could affect the gut at all.


    • Gina.Jenny
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      These are fresh offerings from Podge…

      and everybun else’s look like this


    • jerseygirl
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      He certainly likes to be different.

      There’s some doubles and triples there, which happens when there’s a gut slow down. Very odd.


    • Q8bunny
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      My poor darling Podgey bun.

      Those are some mighty mixed signals he’s sending between his squirrely poops and his fab everything else.

      I hope it’s nothing serious, but rather just tum weirdness that will resolve in time. ((((((Serious love and health vibes and nose smooches.))))))


    • Gina.Jenny
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      I’ve been watching him, he has been grazing between snoozes throughout the day, same as every bunny n piggy else, so nothing up with his appetite. Yesterday, he decided that the clover he had been ignoring was worth nibbling away at, so he ate quite a bit of clover, plus lots of grass, and the dandelions and goose grass I fed him, he was very active during floor time when he came in, including lots of laps of the stairs, yet his poops this morning are still a weird mix of textures, shapes and sizes?

      Hopefully the vet will have something helpful to say on Wednesday.


    • Gina.Jenny
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      All that clover must have done Podge’s tum a favour, his poop pile this morning looks almost normal  (Gina’s beautiful little ones are the ones on the right)


    • Bam
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      He likes to puzzle his mummy and the whole BB forums, that’s one thing for certain. I too hope the vet has sth useful to say tomorrow. Outdoors food is agreeing with him, but that’s not a sign of megacolon of course, my Bam too does extremely well on natural forage and outdoor grazing, I’m so proud of his clean little butt (Yes, bunny-parents can be proud of clean little bunny butts. It’s normal for us. I think!)


    • jerseygirl
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      You might like to get some input from Dana Krempels. I know she has experience with megacolon with some of her own rabbits.
      She seems to have good idea of the different ways it can present.

      http://www.allexperts.com/user.cgi?m=4&expID=35789&catID=703


    • Q8bunny
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      Yup. Podge’s clover poops look decidedly better. *fingers crossed for tomorrow and may the poops be evah in your favah*


    • Gina.Jenny
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      Podge’s appointment is in two hours. Really hoping we’ll get a vet who has heard of MC

      Poor bunnies aren’t impressed at not getting out in the garden for a second morning in a row, but I can’t leave Jenny out, cos she is known to try and dig out…


    • Bam
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      Jenny is a terrible, terrible little girl! Perhaps you should bring her to the vet with you, so she doesn’t get angry with Podge for smelling differently after?

      I’m keeping my fingers crossed here that Podge gets a MC-savvy vet, or at least a vet willing to look into MC.


    • Gina.Jenny
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      I’m bringing Gina, Jenny would be way too stressful  

      Thankfully its not as hot as yesterday morning, and I’m hoping the cloud cover doesn’t clear til we get back.


    • Bam
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      Oh I’m an idiot, Gina, of course.

      Jenny would slay the whole staff if nothing else =)


    • Gina.Jenny
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      No kidding, she would! 

      Well it mostly was positive, vet has heard of MC, but said ‘don’t believe everything you read on google, if he had MC, he’d be completely blocked up’. 

      She did give him a thorough examination, and took this morning’s poops away to dissect. She says he’s in lovely shape (I know we all know that ) and was pleased with his teeth. She gave him a vitamin jab, plus his myxi/vhd and sent him home with 5 days worth of dewormer, ‘as a precaution, as the poops were fine when broke apart’. She says to keep feeding him as I have been, and treat what he currently produces as normal for him, any change, esp a reduction in quantity, then bring him back in. She also examined him regarding not being nuetered and agrees with the rescues vet it is too high risk.

      Popped into Asda, which I pass on the way to the bus home, and bought a big bunch of fresh parsley, which Podge tucked into on the bus. Gina ignored it, I think she felt bringing her along was totally out of order! 

      Somehow though, I doubt she’ll feel the same when it is Podge’s turn to go with her tomorrow (what a way to celebrate her gotcha day )


    • Gina.Jenny
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      Podge and Gina have been continuing to get a small portion of porridge oats each day. 

      I haven’t weighed them yet, to see if any weight has gone on, but look at Podge’s nice poops this morning 

      Maybe all that lovely soluble fibre is helping, along with the forage instead of veg and the daily probiotics?


    • Q8bunny
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      Yay pooper!


    • Bam
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      Good looking poop!!

      My bunnies’ gut health is better now too, forage is probably a million times better than veg for bunnies. I’m still giving them probiotics + I got a bit of black oats from a horse-owner I know and I’ve been feeding those in small amounts to the buns. I’ve planted some too.

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Forum DIET & CARE Podge and his poops