Please give advice

[Heather]

Hi, I’ve had my lionshead bunny almost a year now and he was really lonely. I decided to get him a mate, we’d been looking around in our area there wheren’t a lot of optinios for shelters and such but we drove by a lady one day who had accidently stumbled onto a rabbit for her grandkid’s which was pregnant and had a “mutt” girl bunny. She is half Netherland dwarf and half polish they believe. Anyway she isn’t quite old enough to be fixed she was born in December. But I have them in two seperate cages right now and have been letting them “play” together in the afternoons when I usually let him out. The male is fixed by the way I forgot to mention that earlier. He has been acting really differently though towards me sometimes way more affectionate, but sometimes he wont have anything at all to do with me, my husband he seems to love more then ever. Today the female was sittig in my lap, and he reached threw the bars and bit her! It was the first afressive thing he’s ever done to her. Besides once he tried to mount her which I stopped immediatly. I’m not sure I’m doing this right, and I need them to bond of course I dont wnat to have to get them both new mates cause i somehow ruined the courtship

[BinkyBunny]

WELCOME to BinkyBunny!! 

Well, we are all “mutt” fans here! i would love to see photos of your two.

So now back to the subject of bonding: Rabbits do follow a heirarchy and/or social ritual. And as long as she was okay with him mounting, then it’s okay to let him mount (as long as he was fixed more than month ago). This is not necessarily a mating thing…but a dominance thing and this is more about the heirarchy rituals. I would let him mount for about 10 – 20 seconds at a time as long as she doesn’t get mad about it. Then don’t allow him to mount for a minute and then let it happen again.

She is also reaching sexual maturity and so she may exhibit behaviors that he may see as dominant, and they may make him react. Also, if he sees you petting her and he hasn’t established that he is dominant yet, he might resort to aggression.

I suggest you continue to go through the bonding sessions, allow dominant behaviors like mounting, (never allow mounting of the other’s head though) and nose nudging/pushing under the other bunny.

If you find that she actually ends up getting aggressive, it may be due to hormones, and you may have to hold off until after surgery.

Right now what are you doing as far as bonding sessions?

[Heather]

He has only tried to mount her that once, but he listens really well and when we told him no he stopped, and really hasn’t tried since. We usually leave them to one another in our living room, letting them roam as they please, He will stop and sniff her rump and she will his, she also was going into his cage and rubbing her scent on things he also does the same to hers, we usually leave both cages open when they are out so they’ll go in and out to use the littler pan. However I noticed she was peeing in his house, so I have stopped the in and out of the houses (bunny pee is gross to clean up). But they really dont seem to want much to do with one another, I was concered maybe she was too young to have interest in him. They usually lay near each other in their cages though agian they seem to ignore one another more then anything. Today I put them in the bathtub he seems rather stressed out he shook a little the way rabbits do when they breathe quickly Ipetted him and he sniffed her and she would lay down at his feet, but agian he didn’t want much to do with her, he’d want me to pet him or pay attention to him but he ignored her. This is becoming more difficult then finding myself a husband haha.

On a side problem I’m sure is connected, my boy bunny has started eating/demolishing his litter pan, gnawing chunks out of the plastic which is concerning me cause I dont want him to get sick, any idea why or how to stop this?

 

Huey!!!Harloe!!!

[BinkyBunny]

Actually, ignoring is a good sign! Most of the time this is done on purpose to communicate a message – they are trying to tell each other that they are non-threatening. Sometimes it is that they truly are not interested, but most of the time they are using this behavior as non-threatening communication.

The destructive behavior with his litterbox is most likely related to the stress. As long as he is not eating the plastic, and you see pieces all around, it should be okay.

Where is his litterbox? Is it near anything that you can tie a toy to? Maybe he get redirect his aggression to that. Also, you might try putting a phone book in his territory and see if he’ll go to town on that instead.

[Heather]

I made the kids a make shift pin today in my kitchen lined it with a towel and let them have at one another. I say have at cause I was more the confident today they wouldn’t harm one another. I gave the boy, Huey a phone book today while he was out I’d been weary before cause he eats everything he shreds but I saw that most of you guys let your buns have phonebooks so I felt safe, he didn’t eat nearly as much of it as I’d previecly thought he would either. We affectionly refur to him as lord destructor, and he was today. There where a couple times where they made me nervous with one another, once he nipped her because she played with his toys, he layed on them after wards, but she stopped and after he actually seemed to nose the toy at her, and didn’t nip her agian. She was licking his face some today, although she seemed kind of agressive towards him actually a couple times he jerked away from her like she nipped him. I figure some of that must be normal. But she is licking his eyes which is really strange he lets her, but then he’ll jerk his head away I’m worried if shes nipping him or maybe it’s the eye licking he doesn’t like, I dont want her to hurt his eyes. My boyfriend told me if he really didn’t like it he’d probably make her stop. I’m going to keep letting this have this play time in the smaller area I think unti I get her fixed. Im planning on doing it in May I was worried that this month was stll a little too early for her to be fixed. They are really getting a long great though, I’m pleased. I can’t thank all you enough for you help it’s so great to have somewhere to come with my questions, my “kids” are so special to me and it’s great to have this resource

the boy stopped chewing his pan too, I think he’s smart enough to do things to get my attention on purpose, I pulled the spray bottel out and it seems to have stopped. I hate spraying at him, but whatever I need to do to make him stop, cause like I said he eats what he chews, weird little bunny of mine

.

[MooBunnay]

It sounds like you are making pretty good progress with the two of them! Sometimes bonding can really take a long time, and it usually takes a lot of work to get one to groom the other, so good job

I know exactly what you are talking about with her licking his eyes and him jerking away. I have a bonded pair that do the exact same thing. The boy will groom Juli’s eyes, and sometimes she’ll jerk away like it hurt. I’ve asked several different rescuers about this and they said the same thing your husband did – that if it really hurt him he would let her know or make her stop. He probably has a bit of bunny gook in his eye that she is trying to get out.

[Heather]

Thanks so much for letting me know she isn’t eating his eyes She was binking off him today and he grunted at her and nipped her, it was actually cute to see the dynamic developing between them. I love how much personalility they both have, and how Huey is changing too; I’m really glad I got him a girlfriend. I know he’ll be happier.

[BinkyBunny]

Jack will sometimes start off with aggressive grooming and that eye thing..my bunnies do that too, but when it does hurt, they just jerk their head away. As long as they don’t use it as a set-off for a fight, then what has been happening is that they just teach each other to be more “gentle” when the one being groomed “jerks”

[Heather]

We have been doing so good UNTIL today I’m sure it’s not as big of a set back as I think but, they havn’t ever mounted one another until today, and he was mounting her face and we made him stop, so he mounted her agian and agian, face and then the right way, and she was sumitting at least it looked that way. She then mounted him, as if to say no I changed my mind, I imediately put them up after that because i noticed she had lost hair, I’m not sure if he was biteing her, or just hair lost in the face to not face mounting. Really was a little tramatic to me to watch my two go at it that way. I know it’s her hormones, I’m going to get her fixed the begining of next month which was the earliest I can. Maybe I should stop letting them play in the living room at the same times.

[KatnipCrzy]

You definitely don’t want them to have a bad experience together- is she gets too aggressive with him- he will remember that later.  You are probably seeing a behavior change due to her hormone levels- and she mounted him or at least thought about it for dominance reasons.  You should not allow either bunny to mount the others head as nasty bite wounds have happened to the unfortunate rabbit on top (in both male and female rabbits).

Your rabbits fur looks so velvety in the pics- does she have curly whiskers?  Curly whiskers show up in Rex and Mini Rex bunnies- and they have super velvety fur, so I was just curious and could not see her whiskers clearly enough in the photo.  

[Heather]

I let them out agian today, was almost as bad as yesterday. Today she she had his hair in her mouth I was mad at her for hurting my baby, I used the water bottle but she just looked at me like she didn’t understand what SHE did wrong he was trying to mount her. I’m definatly going to wait until she’s fixed now. They where sniffing each other’s tail area a lot and I was worried one would bite the other, then the hair pulling was the last straw. She was at tmes grooming him, and then she’d bite him. There was none of him mounting her today though he tried to mount him and he was not havng it. I’m also worried about the chasing of one another they get really close and make tight cicles around each other. It was strange today, no one really had thei ears pinned even with the hair pulling and agressive behavior. I have them side by side now should i maybe move them away from one another. He was stresed when he was out with her today, but he calmed dowm when he got in his house, though he’s eyeig us like he dares us to stick out hand in there. I’m also wondeing about the reintroduction with them. I hope I didn’t make a mistake getting her. I really wanted a happy pair of rabbits, not a divorced angry couple. ****Side note she has a bald spot on the back of her neck should I attribute that to him or should I worry about her being sick?

 

As for her whiskers they are curly! and her hair is a little curly also, she feels much different then my lion head. i compare her to a soft sheep.

[BinkyBunny]

Many times bunnies will pull out hair of the bunny they are mounting. I wouldn’t worry about unless you see this happening more even if they aren’t together.

I also think it may be a good idea to wait until she is fixed. I can contest to the fact that it’s hard enough with bunnies who are already fixed without adding in the additional challenge of hormones. Note: In can take a bout a month for the hormones to die down after surgery.

[MarkBun]

It is possible that her hormones are beginning to kick in and your boy is triggering on that – eventhough he’s neutered, the phermones could still cause a rabbit to try to mate. And don’t worry about the fur thing in the mouth – it is normal during mounting issues and it doesn’t hurt the rabbit any. I find a tuft of Dono’s hair in their enclosure at least once a week and about once a month, I catch Maryann with it in her mouth. And you’re right, they’re so good at giving the look of “What? What’d I do?” while holding the evidence.

[Sarita]

Your female is a rex and they are super soft. I think you are right to hold off until you can get her spayed and wait at least a month for healing to slowly start introducing them again.

Also you want to think like a rabbit and try not to place human feelings on the situation – it’s hard to do though. She really isn’t trying to hurt your rabbit, they just have to work things out in rabbit terms.

I think bonding is extremely stressful for rabbit owners too. I always just wonder, why can’t the just get along without all this drama!

[Heather]

Okay so update and new questions Harloe’s doing great after her surgery she’s healed well and her attitude is much improved, unless you want to clip her nails (*side question* anyone know a good set of nail clippers?). Anyhow, my rabbits pretty much get free regin of the house when they are out, it’s not huge, about apartment size, but when they are both out they do fine. My male rabbit will “flop”, lay on his side (although he seems to be quivering, which he does semi often not too sure what to make of that) and she’ll sometimes ignore him and occasionally jump on him, but mostly it’s just ignoring one another of follow this bunny into the other room, that went on about two weeks. Since they’d been doing so good, I thought I might try to enclose them together in a smaller space, so I hemmed them up together with a litter pan and for about two hours the first night they were fine, he flopped and she ADHD’d out she’s always a busy bunny, but she was esepcially busy chinning anything and everything she could I noticed she groomed him I’m not sure weather he’s groomed her or not although I think maybe it’s agressive grooming cause I’ve founed a couple bald spots since. They did a little circleing but it wasn’t anythign too agressive and he “oinks” at her when she’d invade his space. But they didn’t do anything to make me think they were too unhappy. The next night however I wanted to try and leave them a litler longer they started circleing and then he was trying to mount her face, it’s always her face like he doesn’t know he should face the other way, maybe he’s just a bully, but she got mad and she tried to mount him, he was mad, they started to pull hair, and went at each other it looked awful and rough, and they were both quite shaken up after words I had to squirt them with the water bottle to get them to stop. Tramatic I think for everyone. I havn’t hemmed them together since, I don’t know what to do I’m starting to wonder if they will never be able to be caged together. Anyway thanks for the advice guys!

[Heather]

So I vinagered everything that smelled like a bunny today and they have been caged most of the day today together. I got a large new litter pan and only kept them seperate bowls and water bottels mostly for familiarity, and all the toys were cleaned with vinager as well. I think the nuetral smells seem to make a big different much less possesiveness them before, so I’ve got my fingers crossed. She keeps shoving her head underneathe him which I can only assume is because she wants him to groom her, which I have yet to see him do. I have surgery a week from monday, I’m just wondering if they do well today, tonight and tomorrow is it safe to say they probably wont hurt one another in there? I’m worry far too much I’m sure.

[MarkBun]

How big is the pen?  If there’s enough room for them to get away from one another, it should be fine.  However, since you’re going into surgery, it would be best not to put undue stress on you and I’m sure you’d be worrying about them all the time.

When my two buns were finally bonded, they were left overnight in the same pen however there was a divider used.  This help cut down the chasing because there was a big barrier in the way and without a straight charge line, rabbits sometimes lose the will to chase.  Below is a crude drawing of the “L” pen design.

[Heather]

Thanks the L idea is defiantly worth a try. Right now they’re in a large rectangular enclosure with a large litter pan and then a large area for them to lay, I have noticed he lays with his head away from her, I assume from the excessive grooming she insist on preforming on his eyes over and over. I know he hates it he flinches and thumps but he doesn’t ever run away, it’s kind of confusing cause he’ll nip me or my fiance for invading his territory but not her, and he’s by far the bigger rabbit. She also has a tube that’s secured to the side of the cage which she hides in, though she really isn’t the one who needs to be hiding. The cage itself is a huge dog cage, she’s odd she could climb the rails of an xpen so I think I’m going to have to enclose one totally, and I haven’t gotten to that yet. Something concerning they are doing a lot of circling and she’s mounting him and he doesn’t allow it. I’m really not sure how to handle this, do I water bottle them, or should I separate them, I’m starting to wonder if I should separate them, but they’ve been together now since Saturday. I don’t want to make them miserable or anything. I hope Huey wouldn’t have been happier alone.

She looks so innocent but she’s a bully!

[Deleted User]

The things you describe are pretty standard bonding scenarios. Don’t stress yourself out too much. I have moved in rabbits together thinking they were ready and had to rethink and separate to do more actual bonding sessions and it usually does the trick. If you feel there is too much tension in the dog crate then separate them. However, if there is no aggression such as nipping or attempts to fight I would leave them together. It is a big step when they move in together and it can be a little tense but it has to happen to move the bond forward.
Where did you get this cool tube?

[Heather]

I’m pleased to report they are snuggling now and grooming there’s still come circling and mounting but I notice it most when one food bowl has better contents then the other, which I’m trying not to let happen anymore. The tube came from Petco it’s made out of ediable cardboard so no worried when they eat it, well my two eat everything.

[Author]

Messages