Oreo stressed out by bonding and other questions

[Ali925]

Sorry this is long, but I have a lot of concerns/questions…and I feel like I have no idea what I’m doing, no matter how much research I’ve done…

Last night I had the first bonding session for Oreo (8 months) and Blu (4 months) and I am not sure who was more stressed out…I think possibly me…  haha      

Anyhow, it went okay I guess but it’s hard to tell.  I expected the worst, so I guess based on that it was okay.  I am not the best play-by-play story teller, but I’ll try to sum it up.  I had them on the bathroom floor in a small pen with me inside.  They seemed to be okay at first, touching noses, etc.  Then just ignoring each other, walking around exploring the new area. 

Then Blu decided to sniff Oreo from behind and I think it scared her so she jumped and turned around and they sort of got at each other but I separated them right away.  They settled down and then Blu mounted her (funny since I never saw him hump or mount anything, Oreo always did before she was spayed), but she didn’t seem to mind too much so we let him go for 5-10 seconds.  I pulled him off and separated them, because I think it really scared Oreo a bit.  There was a little bit of chasing, but I continued petting their heads and then they just stared at each other, then got closer but no grooming.  I think Oreo was asking for some, but Blu didn’t understand.  All he wanted to do was mount her.  So he did it a second time and we let him for a short moment and pulled him off and separated again.  I calmed them down again and once they seemed settled we ended the session.  It was only about 10 minutes, but I didn’t want it to get so out of control that it ended negatively. 

After they went back to their cages they got a piece of a carrot for a treat, mostly for Oreo since she seemed really freaked out.  Blu was just flopped out, seemed like he could have cared less about what just happened.  Oreo was laying down but was panting pretty hard.  I could tell she was really stressed by the whole thing.  I was so surprised because I thought for sure that she would have been trying to be dominant.  We have had her much longer and she has the typical female attitude, although lately she’s been more and more cuddly with us.  In fact, since last night she seems like she just wants pets and attention from us (more than usual).  So now I’m concerned that it’s too much stress for her?  She didn’t go crazy for her salad this morning and hadn’t finished it in the time she usually does, and this concerns me greatly.

She seems fine but I know she gets scared very easily (she hesitates to walk by the door when it’s open with just the screen door, and I think hearing birds freaks her out, or when I run the kitchen sink, or really any loud noise…) so I know she’s very delicate.  Last month she went into gi stasis and I think it was stress (and heat) related, so I don’t want to push her to that point if the bonding bothers her that much. 

So I guess my questions are,

1-How much stress is okay as far as bonding goes?  I don’t want it affecting her eating (I’ll see tonight if she finished her breakfast, she might just be a bit off since we went away this weekend for a night and was off her normal eating schedule)  Should I skip today and try another session tomorrow or just try again tonight as long as she is eating normally?

2-How can you know when to intervene during the bonding session?  I think I was so nervous about it, I was interfering too often, not letting them just figure stuff out..  I won’t let them attack one another, but I’m too worried to sit back for more than a few seconds…Any tips?

3-Just to confirm, it’s okay to let Blu mount her just for 10-15 seconds at a time as long as she doesn’t freak out too much?  And hopefully he’ll settle down over time?  Another factor is his age, since he’s only 4 months I know he’s more active and hyper than Oreo is, so that’s another issue we’re dealing with.

 

Thanks in advance.

~Ali

[Elrohwen]

Otto was also very stressed out when Hannah mounted him, and he’s a scardy cat anyway, but he got over it. Try not to worry too much about Oreo and just keep doing what you’re doing. She’ll settle down, and Blu’s humping will settle down.

It was hard for me to figure out when to intervene, so I’m not a good person to give advice here. I think you need to go with your instincts, while keeping in mind that you should only intervene if they’re fighting or showing signs of starting a fight. At first, when you’re nervous, you’re going to want to intervene more than you should, but you’ll get better over time. Letting him hump her is a great start.

Regarding his age – he’s just going through puberty right now, even if he doesn’t have his boy bunny parts anymore. If you find the humping too much after another couple sessions, you might want to put bonding on hold for a few months. Humping at this stage is normal, but so much humping 3-4 sessions in might be an indication that he’s still too driven by teenage bunny instinct to be a good bonding partner. Giving him a few months to settle down more might help.

[Ali925]

Thanks Elrohwen,
Okay I’ll try not to worry…I was more concerned this morning when I saw Oreo avoid eating her salad that she usually wolfs down. So hopefully she’s eaten it by now…

Is staring at each other necessarily the start of something bad? When they did that I just pet them both simultaneously and it seemed to ease the tension. Also, I was sitting in the pen with them. Is that okay ? I wanted to be close so I could separate when necessary. I hope I get the hang of it after a few sessions because I’m afraid to sit back much. I probably should try to make the space smaller and that might help.

I was afraid of that with Blu being so young. I was just surprised he acted how he did since I have never seen him hump/mount anything. Oreo would mount our legs/arms but not at all since her spay, so I wasn’t expecting it to go that way. I guess I’ll try again tonight and see how it goes…hopefully it’s at least the same and not worse than last night.

Thanks.

[Deleted User]

How long has it been since Blu’s neuter?

[Ali925]

Almost a month, it was on May 4th. I had read you should wait 3-4 weeks, so I was hoping it was enough time even if he was neutered young. (~3.5 months)

[Deleted User]

Yes, that is plenty time. I was curious because he is only 4 months old.
Just keep doing the sessions, the young buns can be stressed out because at that age it is their instinct to assume everything is out to kill them. Also, if it is a first bond, it is quite the shock. A smaller containment for them would prevent any chasing and it may get them calmer that way.

[Ali925]

Well the problem isn’t the younger one, it’s my older one who is about 8 months old…(We have had both of them since 2 months old). She was the one who was mounted by Blu…and I’ve never seen him mount anything before, so it was odd to see. And it definitely made her freaked out the rest of the night last night.

When I came home today, she had finished her breakfast thankfully…but I noticed she won’t eat at the same time as Blu anymore. I have their cages close to each other (not touching) and have for months. I put their salads at the ends of their pens so they can face each other to eat. They have been doing this for a while now, and no problems. No aggression through the cages either, they’ve been just minding their own business.

However, when I gave them dinner tonight, Blu went to his right away and Oreo took a few bites and walked away. That is totally unlike her. So I moved the salad to the other end of the pen away from Blu and she started eating it. I think she’s scared of him now (even though he’s half her size!) I am just afraid to proceed with the bonding if it makes her stop eating…she’s my sensitive one for sure.

I’m afraid they’re going to have a harder time since she seems so scared of him now.

What do you think? I skipped tonight’s session because I wanted to be sure Oreo ate tonight. We’ll try tomorrow I guess…

[Deleted User]

Put a cardboard barrier between their cages so she cannot see him. If one bunny is scared it is best to give her ‘safe time’ away from the other rabbit outside the sessions.

[Monkeybun]

Part of the purpose of bonding is to get them to stop being scared. You gotta keep at it, or it won’t happen, trust me on that lol.

[mrmac]

Yes, I would put them as close as you can to each other, but still put some kind of barrier so they’re out of sight and safe from one another. Just gotta get them used to each other’s smells. The rest comes with time

[Ali925]

Thanks everyone. They’ve been in close proximity since March (same room/separate cages). At first we had cardboard between them, but sometime in April we took it away and they’ve done fine. This is the first time Oreo has had a problem eating with him in sight. I was hoping they had already gotten somewhat familiar with one another and would be okay to a certain degree.

I put the cardboard between them and I’ll see how Oreo does with her breakfast. Blu hates the cardboard because he can’t see her. He’s very interested in her, but she likes her space. So he just tries to peer over the cardboard the whole time, he’s in a constant periscope stance on top of his basket..he’s always done this, but I know he just wants to see her/be near her.

[Deleted User]

It is a good sign actually that Blu is very interested and Oreo a little scared right now. Blu wants to bond but she is just scared. Your sessions will have to be geared toward making her more comfortable with him by controlling the intensity in which he bothers her. Being a juvenile bunny he might annoy her at times.

[Ali925]

Thanks Petzy, that makes me feel so much better! I knew it would be stressful..I just got really worried that Oreo would go into stasis again if she got too stressed. I’ll have to watch her closely. Hopefully she gets more comfortable after a few more times.

Will once a day be sufficient for sessions? I really can’t do twice a day except on weekends, so I hope it’s enough. Thanks again for your help, I’m really uneasy about the whole thing so I’ll probably be asking lots of questions…

One more question..should I keep the space empty until they progress? I have a litterbox that two bunnies can fit in (and hasn’t been used) and I didn’t know if it would help to do forced snuggling in it, with hay in there of course?

[Deleted User]

It depends on your rabbits. Some rabbits do better during sessions without any litterboxes. A territorial, confident rabbit may want to make the box all his or hers and then it can trigger a scuffle. You could just try forcing them to snuggle in a litterbox and see how it goes. You can always take the box out if it creates a problem between the buns.
How many sessions you do is up to you, your human schedule. The more time you spend bonding, the sooner they will be bonded.

[Ali925]

I can’t even get her out of her pen. She’s protesting and knows what we’re about to do. She can be so difficult when she doesn’t want to do something. I don’t see how this is going to work, she hates to be picked up and she knows the box we used to carry her to the bathroom last time, so she’s refusing to cooperate.

Any tips?

[Monkeybun]

Pick her up anyway Seriously though, from what i’ve learned about my 2, it’s that if you don’t show you’re the boss, they trample all over you. Monkey has learned she’s going ot get picked up for some things regardless if she likes it or not. She’s gotten much better about it with practice. The bond won’t happen if you let Oreo decide whether or not she wants to get picked up to do it.

[Ali925]

They are both impossible. We’ve tried for a long time to try and pick them up. It doesn’t work. Or it works until a certain point and they try to leap, so I lower back to the ground so they don’t get hurt. I guess we’re just not good at it. Usually we just carry them in something if we need to move them.

I suppose I’ll have to work on picking up before I can even start bonding. I’m so frustrated, tonight was a disaster, didn’t even have a session. My bedtime is about now…so if I don’t get things accomplished in a set period of time it’s not happening (I don’t have much free time at night, maybe 2 hours including dinner for us and them)… I’m just hoping I can make the time for it because I definitely want to do this.

I feel so stupid that I can’t pick my own bunnies up! I’ve spent so much time with them too, you’d think they would trust me a little more. Oreo just thumps and hides when she knows she is going to be picked up. Maybe I can get someone to help teach me how to pick them up assertively. Wow I’m frustrated and we didn’t even have a session… Thanks Monkeybun and sorry for the rant, I’m just really disappointed in my failure!

[Deleted User]

my rabbits don’t like being picked up and two of mine put up a serious fuss when I try. The best way is to grab them super-quick and drop them in a ‘shuttle’. Starting a bond takes much motivation on the human part because the rabbits are usually not happy about the sessions… don’t let it get to you. Get a routine down and stick with it.

[Elrohwen]

Neither of my rabbits like being picked up. For bonding sessions I just got them into their carriers. They weren’t thrilled about carriers, but I could corner them and shove their butts in there, then shut the door. It works best if they’re in a pen without places to hide, but that isn’t so huge that they can run away from you indefinitely.

I still can’t pick Hannah up at all (even the vet techs struggle with her) and I was able to bond her and Otto. Otto is impossible to pick up if he has room to run away from me, so I still only pick him up once he’s in his carrier or a similarly small space.

If you wait until they’re ok being picked up, you could be waiting forever. Just figure out some way to transport them and don’t take no for an answer when you try to get them into the transport.

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