Not time to bond, already discouraged

[Deleted User]

So I am having a bit of a worrying spell…. Ok, I am literally worrying myself to death.

Some of you may have seen my other post about bonding my two buns (who both are free and hate to be in a cage). I quickly did the set up I was going to try out, and posted some pics so others could see what I was talking about. and got some helpful tips for improving that from some others.

Since then, Ophelia has started up the lunging and grunting again. For a bit, she would just chin his stuffie but now, if I pick it up and move it she will lunge and bite at it. A sign that if he moves around her she’s going straight to bite first, ask questions later. When she was near the baby gate during my mock set up, she started frantically chewing at it, and when I tried to gently push her away she bit me! I once switched out the litter trays and she chins it, and eats the hay in it but if I put my hand in she starts clawing at me. I’m beginning to think to myself “what the hell have you gotten yourself into, Rebecca!” She was never aggressive AT ALL before he entered the house. I know it is normal to show aggression, but I am wondering if this is a really, really bad sign? Is all this aggression normal for a female who has a male brought home, or is this telling me that my bunny does not like other bunnies? He gets neutered on 8/25, so there will be no face to face bonding for at least the next two months.

Is there anything I should do in the meantime? Would it be beneficial at all to let her see him through the gate while I am home, maybe she will get used to smelling and seeing him move? GAAAAH I’m so stressed and it’s not even bonding time. I could keep them as separate buns, but both would get less attention from me, because I got Quincy so that Ophelia wasn’t lonely since I work 9 hours a day. Having to split my time between the two would be the opposite of my intention

[Gina.Jenny]

The smell of an unaltered boy bun could well be affecting her quite a lot, so I wouldn’t start despairing just yet. Could you get stuffie to ‘groom’ her, show submission?

Is she moulting at the moment? I ask because Jenny turns into a werebunny when she moults, which she is right now. She went to bite me a few days ago, and again this morning, I didn’t smell of anything new, it is just how she is when she goes through a heavy moult.

I have 3 pairs all kept in separate runs, and they all seem to get something from interacting with each other through the bars, so while 2 solo buns isn’t ideal, it can still give both buns some enrichment, though not as much as being bonded.

[Deleted User]

No I don’t think she has moulted yet, that’s heavy shedding, right? She does shed and I brush her, but I’ve not really gotten a lot of hair out. Ever since her spay she has been particularly cross about having her tummy touched (she didn’t like it before either, but I could push her away from things without her grunting at me). She has one small spot on her side where her fur has not grown back at all, do you think her tummy being “exposed” is bothering her?

I have tried to have the stuffie pretend groom her, and she gets really upset. She rears back and starts boxing at it. When I put it down below her head she chins it and doesn’t mind it. Last week she was cuddling next to it and grooming it. I got him at 8 weeks old on July 7, so he is almost 12 weeks now but I don’t think his junk has ripened just yet But maybe she has noticed a change in his scent? She is fine with the stuffie until I move it. She could be across the room and if I bend down to pick it up or toss it out of the way she comes lunging and grunting. She has never tried mounting it. I don’t understand why she only has that reaction when it’s moving. I’m afraid she’s going to attack him when they meet O.o

[joea64]

I wonder if it could be a territorial issue; does, even altered ones, can get very territorial (which could also explain why she doesn’t like it when you handle her litterbox when she’s in the cage, if I understood your original post correctly) and it could be she thinks of Quincy as an intruder. Have you tried putting the stuffie with Ophelia in a neutral area (one that she hasn’t marked as her domain as far as you know)?

[Gina.Jenny]

My feeling is give her a break from the stuffie? It seems to be doing more harm than good? She sounds to me like she is highly territorial, which all three of my girls are. Gina was really bad at first, aggressive all the time, and I did wonder if she would have to be kept as a solo bun. She was caught living feral and was completely wild for months after we took her in. It was at least 8 months before I could even touch her without getting shredded, I think ppl must have though I self harmed, my arms were so badly scratched! Then she started calming down with me, and showed some signs of wanting bun company, in that she kept lying alongside the run barrier between her and the only other buns I had at the time Pippi and Jenny (we think Gina and Jenny are probably sisters). Jenny, being a right little madam, made it clear that no way was she sharing Pippi. Our local rescue had a solo boy bun, who had been waiting for a new home for 9 months, and they agreed for him to come on a visit, with a view to staying if things looked promising. It took 4 days to marathon bond them, she has been devoted to Podge ever since. Yet in the early stages, I really doubted I was going to get anywhere with bonding them. So don’t give up, wait for the neuter, give him time to heal, and then see how things are…

[Deleted User]

She has been allowed the entire apartment besides my bedroom (where he is kept) so there really isn’t a neutral space besides the bathtub. I can understand being territorial I just am starting to feel like I’ve done something wrong by getting the second bunny. She has never been anything but sweet to me and she behaves like an angel, she doesn’t even have a cage and I trust her completely not to do anything nutso while I’m not home…So I really hate to see her this way and to be honest it’s kind of breaking my heart. I wanted her to have some company, and in the process I’ve totally upset her! Guess I’ll take away the stuffie again. I just can’t help but feel like she hates him.

[Dface]

When I got Peep, Yumi had a total meltdown over anything. She would get into trances where I would get bitten if I went near her and smelled too much like him (I had to be so careful touching any of her things.) She was the same about the toy too. If it moved it had to be fought with.
Girls are so much more territorial than guys are.
It takes time. The house is probably smelling more and more like him the longer he’s there and the more she probably wants to find and rid her home of this ‘imposter’

[12345ABCDE]

Take a breath, and relaaaax At the moment she is responding to a hormonal bun, which is completely different. Just be sure to take things slow when the time comes.

[Deleted User]

Well I’m worried because HE isn’t showing any signs of sexual maturity, and she’s still acting out. He could care less about her, or the stuffie. I haven’t been able to check that well, but I don’t think his special parts have come in, and he’s certainly not showing any of the typical behaviors. He would be 12 weeks on the 7th. When I set up the gate, he ate his food and then left, without giving her so much as a second glance. But she went bonkers on the gate trying to get in, and it seems like it would be the other way around if he was matured?

Dface, I guess it makes me feel a little better to know that your bun acted a fool and they still ended up bonding lol. I have had them separated for a month already, so we will take things as slow as we need to as I am in no rush. It will also give me plenty of time to work on this DIY hutch that will be introduced to them both once they are bonded.

……or wait…. Do you think giving them a hutch that is new to the both of them after they are bonded could cause them to fight over it? $h!t, I hadn’t thought about that!

[12345ABCDE]

My boy didn’t show any signs of sexual maturity at all, neither did my doe. Just because he isn’t exhibiting signs doesn’t mean hormones aren’t kicking about.

In regards to the hutch – with bonded bunnies, especially territorial ones it’s best to give everything brand new (or we’ll cleaned!) New items can be a cause for territorial behaviour though, that’s why it’s best to add things in slowly.

[Deleted User]

Oh! I figured he would show some behaviors, especially since she is also in the house. But believe me, I would be happy if he doesn’t show the signs! Well, I suppose the only way I’ll know is to just set the new hutch up once they are bonded. …and prepare myself for Ophelia’s wrath in the case that she doesn’t want to share…

[Dface]

Sometimes females get ‘cage rage’ where they get really wound up over the other rabbit during pre bonding. (Yumi was diabolical-I wish I’d taken pictures of the destruction of her cage trying to chew through it to get Peep)
In the end I chose to introduce them prematurely (she was able to be right up next to him as I cross-petted them ) She still didnt like him, but it calmed her down a good bit.
I would be careful of how aggressive she gets, sometimes it gets pent up and when she finally meets the new rabbit is likely to lash out. Try stressing her out before you introduce them when you do finally decide the time is right

[Q8bunny]

The way I see it, leave the setup as is, but cease and desist on all other pre-bonding efforts. Ophelia’s clearly reacting negatively to Quincy’s scent at the moment. After the neuter, his scent will change dramatically. So it’s likely she’ll calm down too. So wait until his hormones have died down completely, THEN start swapping etc, and then attempt face to face meet.

[Binky Manuka]

Hi there, my girl reacted terribly to bringing home a neutered male and she had never been aggressive prior either. We had been sent home from a shelter with another girl to start with (long story) and Binky was never aggressive towards her but we swapped for a male because the other female was aggressive towards Binky. Well Binky became super aggressive, boxing, lunging, trying everything in her power to get at him with evil on her mind! I was shocked. Anyway, I just kept swapping them between two sides of the room with a Binky proof divider between them, so they were forced to share everything. At night I put them in travel cages close together face to face and made them eat dinner and spend the night until her behaviour at the barricade during the day died down, then I let them stay in their divided room. I didn’t even try to introduce play dates until there had been no negative behaviour from Binky for a week. She now loves him but he’s not so keen so I am still working through bonding issues but just with him being the problem now, and he’s nowhere near as nasty as Binky was though! Good luck, it seems to be two steps forward then one disappointing one back with bonding. Hope we both get there soon xx

[Deleted User]

So I took away the stuffie. I haven’t been switching litter boxes because I didn’t really see a point. I let her sniff his box a few times just to see if it would help her calm down but it didn’t seem to do anything. I have used a staple gun and stapled hardware cloth over the bottom baby gate so that no one can scratch or bite through the gate. I have been putting both of their boxes at the barrier and letting them see each other for a few hours for the past couple days. Ophelia seems to have calmed down *some*. Sometimes, she still has little fits towards me, but it has definitely gone down. Today she just ran so fast in between my feet and I accidentally kicked her gently as I was taking my next step cause I just couldn’t react fast enough. Apparently she thought we were having a fight and scratched up my legs a little. When I am ground level with her she never does anything like that, but if I am standing then all of a sudden I become a target! But, as I said, I have noticed some improvement. She has lied down in that area too, so I suppose that is a good sign. They still seem very interested in each other, so hopefully we progress to ignoring each other lol.

[Q8bunny]

LOL Fight first, ask questions later? Maybe she thought your feet were more new rabbits. Damn intruders!

[Deleted User]

I guess I had better never get bunny slippers lmao XD

[Gina.Jenny]

I can vouch that some bunnies do see slippers, bunny or otherwise, as fair targets to attack

[Q8bunny]

Or to luuuuuuv. Chewie became utterly infatuated with my mom’s house slippers

[Deleted User]

So I’m digging up this old post rather than creating a new one, in case anyone new sees this they can scroll up for the full story.

I’ve been letting the buns see each other for a few hours a day through the baby gate. Last night, Quincy just laid up against the gate and Ophelia just sat there and started at him all wide eyed for a few minutes. I pulled out my “pet voice” and tried to calm her down softly saying “it’s ok bun” and then she laid down and half closed her eyes. Now, I’m wondering if this is a good sign that we’re getting used to each other, or if they were just laying there because they had been switched out, so he was in her home and she was in his. Maybe they were just trying to be closer to “their own territory” ? I’m hoping this means Ophelia is becoming a little more accepting of him. I can keep this up for another month lol I just want them both to want to like each other!

 

[Q8bunny]

Chilling sounds more like “Meh… you’re ok for now.” than “I’m closer to home now.” So I would take that as a good sign.

[Theo&Mickey]

Agree with Q8bunny! It looks like they are tolerating each other through the gate, with Ophelia slightly on the alert. I wonder who will be “top bun” when it comes time for bonding? My bunnies tend to ignore each other through the gate, I hope that’s a good sign too!

[Vienna Blue in France]

Theyll make a lovely couple.

[Deleted User]

At first, I thought that she would definitely be top bun, but Quincy has become quite demanding of grooms (from me) so it will be interesting to see how it plays out.

I’ve started the switching of sides here lately… Ophelia is giving some backlash…. such as peeing in his sand box! RUDE. He plays in hers but never pees I scooped out the pee sand and put some fresh sand in…but then came back to a bunch of sandy poops XD When I switch them back, Ophelia gets a bit frustrated at all her things smelling like him. It was bad the first few times, she would run around and freak out and thump… Now she just seems very cautious when she comes back into her space.

Honestly I feel like Ophelia is still being a little too aggressive for having been around him so much. Is this still normal since it’s not neutral territory? The grunting and lunging has DEFINITELY improved, but sometimes she will still randomly do it. Like completely randomly, and other times she is fine. Other than her aggression, there are really no other issues. I guess I should just count my lucky stars that they aren’t peeing on everything….

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