Newton, Smokey & Bandit

[runawaybunny]

To bond or not to bond

I’ve very torn on whether or not to bond my single male bun (Newton) with my bonded male/female pair (Smokey and Bandit)

At first I decided that I did not want to bond them and have kept them separated. So far that has worked well until today. Newton is free range in the computer room and Smokey and Bandit are free range in the kitchen. The living room separates the computer room and kitchen with a gate on both sides.

If Newton gets into the living room he’ll hop over to the kitchen gate to nose boink with Bandit and Smokey thumps. If Smokey gets in the living room he’ll drops a line of pellets right in front of Newton’s gate.

I’ve had Newton since July, and up until today they’ve never been in the living room at the same time. Newton got through his gate when I was bringing in his hay this morning. Not a big deal because he always comes running for his fresh hay, but somehow, Smokey and Bandit got into the living room at the same time. I guess my daughter must have opened the gate, which usually isn’t a problem because out of the 5 of us she’s the most consientious about closing the gates behind her.

There was a big bunny fight. I had to pick Newton up and carry him back to the computer room. I checked all the rabbits and there doesn’t seem to be any injuries, although there was fur everywhere. It was very stressful. Now, I’m not sure if I never want to bond them because I really don’t want to deal with another bunny fight. Or maybe I should definitely bond them to get it over with and not have to worry about them getting to each other again.

We are in the process of building a house but we won’t be moving in for at least a year, maybe two. I’ve also considered keeping them separate until we move and then bonding them in the new house.

Any advice?

[Karla]

Why not just try it out and see what happens? It would be a 1000 times easier if they were bonded to each other.

I would definitely start bonding them. Start with switching litter boxes so they get used to the scent of each other. Perhaps use a stunt double.

It sounds like Newton and Bandit could be an easy bond, so start with those two.

[runawaybunny]

Posted By Karla on 11/03/2010 07:53 AM
Why not just try it out and see what happens? It would be a 1000 times easier if they were bonded to each other.

I would definitely start bonding them. Start with switching litter boxes so they get used to the scent of each other. Perhaps use a stunt double.

It sounds like Newton and Bandit could be an easy bond, so start with those two.

 

Ok, I will give it a go. Today I will switch the litterboxes and work on the stunt double. I agree with you about starting with Newton and Bandit. If it was just the 2 of them I would have started bonding a long time ago. It’s the Newton/Smokey part that scares me.

[Karla]

Tell me about it (i have two males ready to kill each other)! Best of luck. You will do just fine, and remember you have plenty of time…so far, you are used to living in two bunny zones, so you are in no hurry.

You can do it!

The fact that you could just pick up Newton and that there were no obvious bite marks shows that it was not a FIGHT fight. Was it a chase or were they on the floor, boxing each other and trying to hold the other one’s paw in their mouth?

Perhaps also when Smokey is out, you could give them treats and nice greens at the gate so they sit on each side and chew their yummy food and are simply just having an excellent time near each other.

[runawaybunny]

It was like bunny chaos. They were all in a bunch and I tried to get in the middle and separate them but they would jump back together and start boxing. That’s when I just grabbed Newton. Everyone calmed down and went back back to their rooms after that.

I’ll try giving greens at the gate. I think that’s a good idea. Usually there is no through the gate aggression, just lots of curiosity and interest.

[runawaybunny]

Ok, so I switched the litterboxes and the buns seem totally unphased. I guess that’s good although, more probably, it means nothing. As a next step I brought out a stunt-Bandit and started rubbing it on her to get her scent all over it. Once it’s good and Bandit-like I’m going to give it to Newton to snuggle. This went really well. I rubbed stunt-Bandit on Bandit and then placed her down next to Smokey and Bandit. I walked away and came back to Bandit licking stunt-Bandit’s ears. Here’s a picture of Smokey, Bandit & stunt-Bandit together.

Then I tried to bring in a stunt-Smokey and they all hopped away. Oh well. I have a feeling this process is going to be a lot of one step forward, two steps back.

[Karla]

What a cute trio you have already Hehe. Seriously though your pair is gorgeous together!

Also, I like to put the stunt double in the litter box – so it get a niiice smell of the other bunny. Charming

I’ll be looking forward to following your bonding sessions!

[bunnymum16]

good luck to your bonding.im gonna have to bond my bunnies soon too.they have to be neutered first.i’ll keep reading about your bonding process.i might learn a thing or two.

no more bunny fights i hope.i dont ever wanna see a bunny fight.i get so panicky and stressed out.

[runawaybunny]

Not much to report because I’m still in the pre-bonding stages, but I do have some photos to share. Sorry about the quality. It’s really dark in my house. No overhead lighting.  I don’t think I will start actual bonding sessions for at least a week. My daughter’s birthday party is on Sunday and I don’t want stressed out buns. Having  strange people in the house will be stressful enough I think.

Bandit has really taken to the stunt-Bandit. Here she is grooming her.

 

Newton also took right to the stunt-Bandit. Here he is grooming her with Bandit’s scent all over it.

 

Smokey couldn’t care less about the stunt-Smokey. Here he is tolerating it

 

Smokey tolerating stunt-Smokey again

 

The most challenging part of the stunt-Bunny process is thwarting stunt-Bunny theft.

 

I decided to feed pellets at Newton’s gate last night. Smokey Notices Newton.

 

 

Bandit notices Newton. Smokey notices pellet dish.

 

Newton and Bandit nose-boink. Smokey looks bummed out.

[Deleted User]

I love all your rabbits, they are stunning. It is a good sign that there is grooming on the stunt double, and taking it slow is very wise. Keep us posted!

[runawaybunny]

Thank you! I will keep posting. I’m so grateful to have this forum. I don’t think I would attempt bonding a trio without the support of the people here.

[Karla]

Posted By runawaybunny on 11/04/2010 07:22 AM

The most challenging part of the stunt-Bunny process is thwarting stunt-Bunny theft.

LOL   Someone in your household seems not to understand the seriousness of stunt-bunnies!

I love your pictures and your comments. It is good to have a sense of humour when bonding a trio. 

 Smokey really looks like his double.

[runawaybunny]

Yesterday morning I let Newton eat his greens at Smokey and Bandit’s gate. This was uneventful. Newton and Bandit immediately ran to the gate trying to greet each other. Smokey was more interested in his pellets.

Smokey did eventually come over to see what was going on.

Although Newton went to town grooming the stunt-Bandit, he wanted nothing to do with the stunt-Smokey. Go figure!

Since the gate visits had been so sucessful I thought if I let just Bandit visit Newton’s gate without Smokey it would go even better. Not so much. Bandit hung out in front of her gate at first looking for Smokey, then eventually came over to eat and nose boink Newton, who after a couple of boinks tried to nip her. Way to impress the girl, “Romeo” .  I let her back into the kitchen. Both she and Newton spent the rest of the evening at their gates, staring loningly at each other. But I won’t be doing anymore visits here. I’ll continue to switch the litter and use stunt-bunnies and next week I’ll try some sessions in neutral territory.

[runawaybunny]

I was starting to worry that my incompetence at bonding rabbits would start to have a negative effect on our relationship with them, but something really unexpected has been happening. Ever since I started with the pre-bonding sessions (switching litterboxes, stunt-bunnies etc.) the rabbits have become more active, more playful and friendlier. Very strange but I’m really happy. Here’s Smokey lounging all sprawled out and relaxed. Normally, he’s not much of a lounger, especially out in traffic areas. He prefers to meatloaf in his hidey hole.

[Deleted User]

Meeting or sensing other rabbits can get a rabbit to come out of his shell and become livelier.
Smokey is a funny-looking bunny! Too cute!

[runawaybunny]

Well, I put a hold on the bonding sessions because Smokey seemed stressed after the party. He didn’t appreciate the company. But meanwhile I accidently aquired a new baby bun. So instead of trying to bond Newton to Smokey and Bandit, I’ve got a new plan, Bond Newton to the new bunny once he’s grown. I know it’s going to be harder to bond two males than a male and a female, but I figure it’s got to be easier than bonding 3, right?

[Deleted User]

Yes, trios can be hard to bond. How did your two react to the presence of a new rabbit?

[Beka27]

Two males are the easiest same sex pairing…

That being said, my thought is to keep at the trio. Get them bonded now. The ideal would be to have the trio bonded, and then try to incorporate the new bunny.

[runawaybunny]

Posted By Petzy on 11/14/2010 08:13 AM
Yes, trios can be hard to bond. How did your two react to the presence of a new rabbit?

 

Smokey (at least I assume it was Smokey) peed on the kitchen floor this morning, which is not like him (or Bandit for that matter.) I figured it was due to the new arrival. But other than that I haven’t noticed any change in their behavior. Desmond (the baby) is living upstairs in my bedroom and all the other buns live downstairs, so they don’t have any contact with each other.

[runawaybunny]

Ok, so I finally tried an actual tub bonding session with Newton and Bandit. I placed a towel on either end of the tub and placed one bun on each towel. At first they wouldn’t approach each other but then Newton built up the courage to hop over to Bandit’s towel. They licked a little bit. Then Newton tried to hump her. I pushed him off. Then Bandit hopped away to the other towel. Newton followed her again. They seems fairly friendly but there was a bit of nipping or swatting. I don’t know, it was so fast it was like lightning and I immediately separated them with the oven mitt. The session ended after about 5 or 10 minutes when Bandit hopped out of the tub.

I took a short video of part of the bonding session, which I still can’t figure out how to post directly, so I’ve included a link. Sorry for the quality and especially PLEASE excuse the hard water stains on this bathtub. Is this a good sign for them being able to bond?

s225.photobucket.com/albums/dd86/runawaybunny2000/

[runawaybunny]

Ok, I’m really feeling positive about the ability to bond these 3. I’ve noticed that since I got the baby, Smokey and Bandit have gone crazy trying to pellet their territory out for him. They keep escaping the kitchen and they run right past Newton, completely ignoring him to go upstairs to the bedroom to leave pellets outside the room Desmond is in.

Today Newton and Smokey got out at the same time in the living room and where last time they fought, today they didn’t even acknowledge each other. I thought this was a good sign and I decided to try a bonding session with Smokey and Newton together. It went really well. Newton was determined to try to hump Smokey so I had to keep my hand on him to stop him, but they both sat next to each other and got pets from me. There was one instance where Newton got tired with the petting and tried to mount Smokey again and Smokey nipped him but it wasn’t like an attack and I was able to easily calm them down and petted them side by side for another 5 minutes or so and then gave them each a little banana. Soon I’m going to try switching their environments. Newton in the kitchen and Smokey & Bandit in the living room. Hoping to blur the territorial line because I don’t have a neutral area to house them all in once their bonded. They will all be free range downstairs.

[Deleted User]

What are you trying to make here? I think I misunderstood. You have four rabbits, two of which are already bonded. So are you now looking at making a second pair to keep separate?

Regardless: unless you have instant bonds or your rabbits are the rare kind who really don’t care about territory, (like some very young bunnies that are new in the house) you are going to need a neutral spot for the cementing. They can all live together in either territory AFTER their bonding is complete with cementing. I would reserve one location for this.

[runawaybunny]

My original plan was to bond Newton with Smokey and Bandit for a trio. Then I got a fourth bun and I thought it would be easier to make 2 pairs instead of bonding a trio and then a quartet. But then when I saw how Smokey and Bandit have really relaxed around Newton since I got the new bunny last week, I sort of reverted back to my original plan of bonding Newton with Smokey and Bandit.

I can find a temporary place to bond them but the eventual goal is to take the gates down and let them have the run of the downstairs. I thought that the original habitat had to be sanitized as much as possible once the (now bonded) buns were reintroduced so that one bun doesn’t keep think of that at his territory. I could be totally wrong about that. My only bonded pair were already bonded when I got them, so I am totally new to this.

Until today, Newton was the only bun ever in the computer room and he had the run of it. Smokey and Bandit are the only buns ever in the kitchen and have had the run of it for 2 years now. I’m worried that might be a problem when I reintroduce them after they are bonded.

[Deleted User]

Posted By runawaybunny on 11/20/2010 12:17 PM

 

I can find a temporary place to bond them but the eventual goal is to take the gates down and let them have the run of the downstairs.

 

A temporary place that is neutral will do for their bonding dates and cementing. Once they are bonded there will be no territorial disputes.

 

[runawaybunny]

Update on the bonding. It’s going slow but steady. On Monday I took Newton, Smokey and Bandit to my husband’s machine shop and set up an x-pen in the office. It’s about a 15 minute ride and they snuggled like bff’s in the box on the way to and from. If we lived in a Winnebago they’d be bonded already.

At the shop Newton hopped around the pen like he owned the place munching on hay, while Smokey and Bandit huddled in the litterbox looking terrified. They ignored each other for a long time, maybe 20 minutes, then started showing an interest. Sometimes they would touch noses and then turn away. Eventually, they would touch noses and then jump back startled. This would escalate into aggression if I didn’t stop it right there. At that point I would pick Newton up and place him in the litterbox with Smokey and Bandit and pet them in turn. They would stay snuggled this way for several minutes. After about an hour or so, I brought them home.

Tuesday I had another session the same way. The only differences were that they ignored each other longer, maybe 30 minutes, There was no aggression between Newton and Bandit. (They would always just turn away after nose touches) And Smokey and Bandit seemed much more relaxed. After a while they would groom themselves, eat some hay, and hop out of the litter box at points. This session lasted about an hour and a half.

[jerseygirl]

If we lived in a Winnebago they’d be bonded already.

Now THAT is an idea! A bunny-bonding winnebago.

It’s really good you have such a completely neutral location like the workshop to take them to.

It’s interesting the changes you’ve noted since Desmonds in the house. I read in one of these bonding threads a suggestion of bringing in a new rabbit when a pair weren’t bonding. I thought that interesting but risky.  It has come up again since that.  I guess it diffuses some tensions and changes the whole dynamic. (I do know this wasn’t the reason you brought him home by the way. ;o) )

I’m enjoying reading this thread. The stunt doubles made me laugh and I especially liked pics of Smokey tolerating the stuffed version of himself. lol!
I think I’m developing a thing for Smokey….

[runawaybunny]

Posted By jerseygirl on 11/24/2010 05:42 AM

I think I’m developing a thing for Smokey….

 

I don’t blame you. Smokey is a total sweetheart. I could pet those soft little ears all day long.

[runawaybunny]

I’m pausing the bonding session temporarily. I tried something crazy and added Desmond to the bonding session to see if that would diffuse the tension between the other three. And it worked great. It was the best session I’ve had. But I don’t want to bond a quartet and then risk breaking the bond when I get Desmond neutered so I’m going to put the whole deal on hold until Desmond is old enough to get fixed, then bond all four at once.

[Author]

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