Mystery illness

[Ms.Snowfox]

I have recently adopted this little guy, Egor, and he came to me very thin. It took him a while to start eating as much as he needs too but he’s been eating well the past few weeks. He’s not gain any weight at all though (he is only 3.5 pounds and he should be 5.5). I just started him on a diet of oats to help and it’s not been long enough to determine if it’s working or not yet though. I just started noticing other things about Egor as well. Egor drinks and pees ALOT, he also doesn’t have much control over when and where he goes. Because of this he’s peeing on himself which has caused him to lose fur on his behind and causing rashes. I took him to the vet today and she couldn’t figure it out. He went through 12 different blood tests, urine testing, and an ultrasound. Nearly everything is coming up abnormal but she couldn’t find the cause. The vet said it’s almost like all the calories and nutrients are going right through him (his calcium is high for some reason), even though he’s eating. She has ruled out cancer (but hasn’t check for it in his bones), kidney issues, stones, and even diabetes. Egor has a scarred liver and is inflamed but she can’t tell what’s causing the issue. Has this happened to anyone else before? I’ve added a salt lick to his cage to help him retain some of the liquid and the vet perscribed him antibiotics and pain meds (and rash cream) and we’re hoping it does something. Egor goes back it two weeks. If anyone’s bunny has had this mystery illness before please share any information!

[Daisy Rey]

No advice, just sending good wishes to you and Egor! Hoping he recovers quickly!

[jerseygirl]

Posted By Ms.Snowfox on 11/24/2018 9:47 PM

I have recently adopted this little guy, Egor, and he came to me very thin. It took him a while to start eating as much as he needs too but he’s been eating well the past few weeks. He’s not gain any weight at all though (he is only 3.5 pounds and he should be 5.5). I just started him on a diet of oats to help and it’s not been long enough to determine if it’s working or not yet though. I just started noticing other things about Egor as well. Egor drinks and pees ALOT, he also doesn’t have much control over when and where he goes. Because of this he’s peeing on himself which has caused him to lose fur on his behind and causing rashes. I took him to the vet today and she couldn’t figure it out. He went through 12 different blood tests, urine testing, and an ultrasound. Nearly everything is coming up abnormal but she couldn’t find the cause. The vet said it’s almost like all the calories and nutrients are going right through him (his calcium is high for some reason), even though he’s eating. She has ruled out cancer (but hasn’t check for it in his bones), kidney issues, stones, and even diabetes. Egor has a scarred liver and is inflamed but she can’t tell what’s causing the issue. Has this happened to anyone else before? I’ve added a salt lick to his cage to help him retain some of the liquid and the vet perscribed him antibiotics and pain meds (and rash cream) and we’re hoping it does something. Egor goes back it two weeks. If anyone’s bunny has had this mystery illness before please share any information!

How frustrating!  Do you think it’s worth having the test results sent to another vet for their input? 

Was there a fecal exam done?   Did she do any test for E. Cuniculi at all? 

Is it blood calcium that was raised? 

I see from your profile that he is an older rabbit. What is his dental health like? 

[Bunny House]

If he’s not absorbing nutrients, then it’s something to do with the gi tract and cecum since that is where the nutrients are absorbed and then formed into cecetropes and regular poop. Maybe there is some inflammation in the gut to where it can’t work properly or not enough bacteria to help breakdown nutrients into something that can actually be absorbed. Has an X-ray or even a CT been done to see what the inside actually look like? A CT is great because you can see all the way around and measure stuff to see what’s abnormal or not since the blood tests are coming back not normal. Just a thought. What size are his poops? Normal? Extra dark or extra light? I know megacolon has been attributed to lower nutrient absorption in buns.

[jerseygirl]

I got to thinking a bit more about Egor’s situation earlier today. To be clear, it’s just speculation on my part!

If it was raised calcium levels in the blood, that along with increase drinking & urinating makes me think of chronic renal failure. Or, compromised renal function at least.
Not all the things they look for (raised urea & creatinine) show in the tests depending on how far advanced the condition is. They may only show as high when there is greater loss of kidney function.

Does his urine appear very clear? My girl Jersey began drinking a lot more and produced clear urine later in her life. She also did much of it outside of the litter box. It didn’t seem like incontinence exactly, as she appear to be aware of what she was doing. I can only assume she just felt the need to go much more often.

I mentioned E. Cuniculi earlier because both the liver & kidneys are typical organs that become damaged from this micro-spore.

[Ms.Snowfox]

Posted By jerseygirl on 11/26/2018 1:37 AM
I got to thinking a bit more about Egor’s situation earlier today. To be clear, it’s just speculation on my part!

If it was raised calcium levels in the blood, that along with increase drinking & urinating makes me think of chronic renal failure. Or, compromised renal function at least.
Not all the things they look for (raised urea & creatinine) show in the tests depending on how far advanced the condition is. They may only show as high when there is greater loss of kidney function.

Does his urine appear very clear? My girl Jersey began drinking a lot more and produced clear urine later in her life. She also did much of it outside of the litter box. It didn’t seem like incontinence exactly, as she appear to be aware of what she was doing. I can only assume she just felt the need to go much more often.

I mentioned E. Cuniculi earlier because both the liver & kidneys are typical organs that become damaged from this micro-spore.

Sorry it’s quite hard to navigate this fourm on a phone! Haven’t responded in a while. His urine is quite clear… She said his urine is extremely diluted. His Kidneys look “fine” but it’s his liver that the vet is concerned about. Im Not sure if he was tested for E. Cuniculi but he has another appointment in a few days so I can ask then. The calcium is in the blood. Being on antibiotics for a few days his water intake has changed a little bit. Some days he chugs it and the next he’ll drink a normal amount. Not sure if that’s a good sign yet or not.

[Ms.Snowfox]

Posted By Bunny House on 11/25/2018 11:38 AM
If he’s not absorbing nutrients, then it’s something to do with the gi tract and cecum since that is where the nutrients are absorbed and then formed into cecetropes and regular poop. Maybe there is some inflammation in the gut to where it can’t work properly or not enough bacteria to help breakdown nutrients into something that can actually be absorbed. Has an X-ray or even a CT been done to see what the inside actually look like? A CT is great because you can see all the way around and measure stuff to see what’s abnormal or not since the blood tests are coming back not normal. Just a thought. What size are his poops? Normal? Extra dark or extra light? I know megacolon has been attributed to lower nutrient absorption in buns.

His poos are quite normal! Sometimes a bit smaller but for the majority of the time it’s average. The vet did a ultrasound on him and said the only thing she noticed unusual was his liver. I believe they were going to do an x-ray but after 15 tests he was too stressed for another. He goes next Wednesday and thats probably on the agenda for him.

[Ms.Snowfox]

Posted By jerseygirl on 11/26/2018 1:37 AM
I got to thinking a bit more about Egor’s situation earlier today. To be clear, it’s just speculation on my part!

If it was raised calcium levels in the blood, that along with increase drinking & urinating makes me think of chronic renal failure. Or, compromised renal function at least.
Not all the things they look for (raised urea & creatinine) show in the tests depending on how far advanced the condition is. They may only show as high when there is greater loss of kidney function.

Does his urine appear very clear? My girl Jersey began drinking a lot more and produced clear urine later in her life. She also did much of it outside of the litter box. It didn’t seem like incontinence exactly, as she appear to be aware of what she was doing. I can only assume she just felt the need to go much more often.

I mentioned E. Cuniculi earlier because both the liver & kidneys are typical organs that become damaged from this micro-spore.

Sorry for the late response! Navigating this fourm on a phone is a hassle. The high calcium is from his blood, she said his kidney looked to be in good shape though. His urine is quite clear and extremely diluted. I believe the vet said the normal is 0.025 and Egors is 0.006 I didn’t get a copy of the paperwork though so my number can be wrong. He does pee excessively and I don’t believe he has as much control over when and where like he should. I can’t remember if the vet tested for E. Cuniculi but I go back Wednesday so I’ll check on that then. For right now he seems to be reacting well to antibiotics. The last few days he’s been drinking a more normal amount of water.

[Bunny House]

EC tests are very unreliable, that is why vets treat on the suspicion of it since they can get false negatives or positives. His pee would be diluted because of excess water intake. Try and push for an X-ray on both sides to see how the organs are looking but a CT is better to be able to get a 360 view of all the organs. If a bun goes for a while without eating they can develope a hepatic liver(fatty liver) and that can lead to a lot of issues. I’d start on Panacur for EC. Asriel and Bombour ( I think that’s how you spell it) on here has a bun with EC, maybe she can chime in.

[LBJ10]

Honestly, it sounds like EC. I’m not a vet, of course. But this does sound like an “atypical” EC case where the main symptoms are urinary-related. Scarring in the kidneys doesn’t show up well, from what I understand. An enlargement/clogging of the liver is documented in EC bunnies. EC is definitely a possibility I would have the vet pursue.

[Ms.Snowfox]

Posted By Bunny House on 11/30/2018 11:45 AM
EC tests are very unreliable, that is why vets treat on the suspicion of it since they can get false negatives or positives. His pee would be diluted because of excess water intake. Try and push for an X-ray on both sides to see how the organs are looking but a CT is better to be able to get a 360 view of all the organs. If a bun goes for a while without eating they can develope a hepatic liver(fatty liver) and that can lead to a lot of issues. I’d start on Panacur for EC. Asriel and Bombour ( I think that’s how you spell it) on here has a bun with EC, maybe she can chime in.

I’ll discuss this with the vet on Wednesday! Definitely asking for that CT. I have my suspensions Egor was not well fed before I got him so that could be the cause his liver not looking so good. The first night I had him he didn’t even seem to know what veggies were….. Thank you so much for your help.

[Ms.Snowfox]

Posted By LBJ10 on 11/30/2018 12:52 PM
Honestly, it sounds like EC. I’m not a vet, of course. But this does sound like an “atypical” EC case where the main symptoms are urinary-related. Scarring in the kidneys doesn’t show up well, from what I understand. An enlargement/clogging of the liver is documented in EC bunnies. EC is definitely a possibility I would have the vet pursue.

I will have the vet persue this Wednesday when we go! It’s definitely sounding more and more like EC Thank you for your help!

[LittlePuffyTail]

Best of luck at your vet apt!

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