Milo still having issues with messy bottom

[Cassie119300]

Hello,

My lop eared rabbit Milo is 6 years old and a Holland lop. I’ve had issues in the past year or so with him and snuffles as well which has greatly improved, he’s no longer sneezing and I’m not finding as much snot anymore. I have actually been using echinacea as a preventative in his water, then I switch off to regular water in-between about every other week. It has been doing wonders for that. His current diet is about 1/4 cup or less a day of Oxbow Adult Rabbit Food, Unlimited Timothy Hay, and each night I give him a small bowl of Spring Mix Lettuce, sometimes alternating with red or green leaf with dill on top ( soon will be dandelion leaves as well). I give him the occasional different kind of veggies but haven’t as much since I’ve been having the issue with the poopy butt.

I clean out his litter box daily ( I use care fresh as the litter) the natural type, and I have his hay hanging in a satchel type bag above it. I have noticed at times he likes to fall asleep in there or he will urinate and poop in multiple areas of it rather than just one or two corners. I have to clean his butt at least every other night as it gets everywhere both poop and urine. His legs, feet, tail, and all around his legs and bits. I recently read that oxbow is using soybean, soybean hulls and molasses in their food, so I am wondering if this could be the culprit? and is this the best pellet food I can give him or is there another type I could try??

He has both really dry looking poops and some that look slightly darker but still a formed round poop.   I’m not sure if he’s just sitting on both poop and urine when he’s in the litter pan and it’s causing the staining or he’s still having issues with the poopy bottom.

Any ideas on what changes I could make??

Thank you

[MelM]

Hey there! I too have a Holland Lop (about 2.5 yrs old), and I’m currently going through similar issues with a very dirty bottom (and paws). Your points are similar to mine. It was suggested here on BB that I try a screen for the litter pan, not sure if that will work with your buns. Mine spends an awful lot of time in there as well, despite having a lot of room and hidey houses. Maybe it’s a Lop thing 😕 I recently cut back on the fresh veg and keeping it simple as well.

Anyways, good luck!  And let me know if anything has worked for you…

[jerseybunnies]

Hi! So it appears that another person has commented about a same trouble on the “Behavior” thread — (they too have a lop!!)

Here is the link to that thread. The responses could help you there: https://binkybunny.com/forums/topic/mucky-bum-paws-what-im-doing-wrong/

I responded on that thread about my lop and the same problem. You can see my response there about what could be wrong.

The other post is about a 2.5 year old lop, and your lop is 6 years old. Depending on their health and genetics, I’ve heard that holland lops typically live 7 – 10 years but can live longer. The reason I’m telling you this is because he is getting older so I would recommend doing a trial and error diet to see what veggies are giving him poopy butt — he might just not be able to digest it or might not be able to tolerate it through digestion the same as before. I would suggest to utilize this link:       https://binkybunny.com/bunnyinfo/baileys-diet/        that is a link to Bailey’s diet from Binky Bunny. Bailey (a lop) also had poopy-butt so they tried a trial and error diet to see what worked best. Additionally, lops just generally have extremely sensitive digestive system. This is very common in lops. So, a trial and error diet might be the best option for you.

Please update and I wish you luck!

-breanna

These are just my suggestions. Please seek an experienced veterinarian if you have medical needs / questions. Thank you! 

[DanaNM]

Have you talked to a vet about the urinating? It’s not really normal for a healthy bun to get urine on their legs, etc, so I’m wondering if he could have a UTI or another bladder issue.

It’s true that some bunnies just have very sensitive tummies and can’t have pellets or certain veggies. You can try an elimination diet (chat with your vet first) and if he’s good with his hay consumption, even go hay-only for a few weeks to see if things improve. Some bunnies also do better with dried veggies and herbs vs. fresh ones. There are pellet brands that don’t include soy etc if it seems like the pellets are the issue (I believe the Oxbow Garden Select variety, as well as Sherwood and some other brands I don’t remember off the top of my head). But it may be easier just to feed a pellet-free diet if that ends up being the culprit (chat with your vet about this to make sure they think it’s appropriate for Milo).

Some people have also had success with probiotics (Bene-bac is a commonly used one) for poopy-bum issues, when all the other possible causes are ruled out.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[jerseybunnies]

Yes, I posted about the possibility of a UTI on the other thread similar to this because my rabbit had urine all over him and he had a UTI. The vet cleaned him off and gave him antibiotics & a pain med, he was back to fluff in no time!

These are just my suggestions. Please seek an experienced veterinarian if you have medical needs / questions. Thank you! 

[Cassie119300]

Hello everyone, I think the urine staining was a one off thing it hasn’t happened since, his poopy butt got better for a while actually on its own and I’m not sure what the difference was, I give milo endless amounts of timothy hay each day ( I did read orchard hay can cause poopy butt) the poopy butt is acting up a bit again but with no real known culprit other than my bun has been battling an illness.  His paseturella I believe is chronic as I have to wipe away white snot almost every night/as well as him having weepy eye still. He also developed yellowish oozing from his ear/with thick white/yellow pus on the same side as his weepy eye. I have gone through 2 rounds of fembendazole as the vet I was seeing was convinced his nystagmus ( horizontal rapid movement of his eyes) was due to E.cuniculi and was of the brain, I was basically told if this didn’t help him (along with the doxcycline he only took for two weeks and tresaderm) then some people just opt to put their rabbits down. Needless to say I got pretty fed up. I think it was the tresaderm that started to clear things up.

Fast forward, I went to see another vet. This vet actually took the time to look into his ears and take an ear sample. He said he found Cocci (coccida bacteria) which im not sure how that would get into his ear or how my rabbit would have got it in the first place as he’s indoors and only has ever been indoors around no other animals. The only thing I could think of is if someone had walked into my bedroom after attending to the chickens or something. I was prescribed tresaderm again for 14 days along with Album oral. He said my rabbits ear canals were swollen and we need to get it under control. I went back for my second visit and he said the ears were 50% cleared up. I was then prescribed Trizultra plus keto… ( I had been using virbac epiotic ear cleanser every other day from the prior vet as well before this). So I’m on about day 9 of using just the trizultra plus keto and it seems the white pus is ramping up a little bit more again? im not sure why as it was staying pretty dry before… and im finding yellow pus on the outside of his one ear again. The right ear seems to be doing fine after a lot of orange ear wax emerged a few days ago. I actually examined this orange wax to make sure there was no mites or anything. I didn’t see a thing. However, my new concern apart from the white/yellow pus acting up again despite daily ear cleanings with this stuff is the fact I’m starting to see a yellow staining appear on the inside of his ears… as well as some crusty/red/orange spots around the bottom of his ears. there are a few scabbish looking things too…, the pores in his ear actually are looking a little red and irritated.  Not sure what is going on.

[LBJ10]

Coccus (plural cocci) is a group of bacteria based on their shape, which is round. There are all kinds of bacteria in this group including streptococcus species. My guess is that this is simply an overgrowth of bacteria that was already in his sinuses/ears.

Be careful with the Tresaderm. It contains a steroid, which are not good for bunnies. However, topical steroids (drops, ointments, etc.) are safer than oral steroids. They should not be used long term… short term treatment only. Tresaderm also has neomycin, so hopefully your vet confirmed that the ear drum hasn’t ruptured prior to prescribing.

The yellow stuff in his ears is probably caused by the ear wash you’re using.

 

[Cassie119300]

Yes I was worried about the tresaderm as well with such a long treatment. For now he is only on the trizultra plus keto. I have a follow up on October 7th however I did call the vet’s to let them know what else was going on. The vet  I saw couldn’t see Milo’s eardrums at the time of examination… some days I think Milo can hear me other days I can’t really tell, he’s been this way for a little while now with the hearing. Unfortunately it took a while to try and get on a somewhat right treatment, I’m pretty sure it’s an overgrowth as well, especially considering the pasteurella. I got so fed up with the other vet I was seeing that I went to this other one, unfortunately they are few and far between here.

[LBJ10]

Neomycin can cause ototoxicity. That’s why you want to make sure the ear drum isn’t ruptured. This depends on the dosage too. Higher dosage = higher risk.

It’s definitely frustrating when you can’t find a vet that knows enough about rabbits. You probably did see some improvement with the Tresaderm. It would have taken the swelling down. However, if the infection hadn’t cleared, then it’s possible the bacteria isn’t sensitive to neomycin. Actually… that would make sense. Streptococcus, at least, is gram-positive. I’ve read that neomycin is only partially effective against gram positive bacteria. Not saying that’s what Milo has… but it would explain the Tresaderm not totally clearing the infection.

[Cassie119300]

Update

Milo started to go downhill towards the beginning of this month, he began circling and stopped eating and drinking and then rolling. Pasteurella reared it’s ugly head again and  it looks like it was the cause of the ear infection on top of having e cuniculi. ( since the vet originally just gave me fenbendazole and nothing else despite me insisting he needed antibiotics) He has been on doxycycline, baytril, fenbendazole, meloxicam, a gut stimulant, and I have an ointment I’ve been applying to his one eye that got very red inflamed and gooey this is continuing to improve. He is now eating again despite his head tilt, pellets, hay, fresh greens, critical care, and I syringe feed him water as well as the critical care in-between and I have also been massaging the stiff side/down eye side which he lays on most of the time when he’s not eating. He has not shown much movement yet but I can see him trying to move his back legs at times he more or less shuffles to his food. I was wondering if anyone else has had experience with this and how long it can take to see your bunny begin to walk. At night he is in a large padded box with plenty of breathing and little windows I made. During the day I keep him on a puppy pad/surrounded by towels on my bed where I observe him frequently. I am thinking of starting Echinacea as an immune booster in his water (I have the solgar capsules) to help with his upper respiratory. He is still having quite a bit of nasal discharge and sneezing but the chest rattling i was hearing and the frequency of nasal discharge is starting to improve thankfully. The only time he rolls now is when I pick him up briefly, sometimes he does not though.

Thanks

[Cassie119300]

His is on day 12 of fenbendazole and other medicines, and day 8 of the baytril treatment and eye ointment.

[DanaNM]

Oh I’m sorry to hear that 🙁 poor Milo 🙁

Hopefully he improves with these new meds.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[LBJ10]

With EC, they sometimes get worse before they get better. So the symptoms associated with EC may take some time to show improvement. As for the infection, it does sound like that part has been improving. You said you don’t hear the rattling in his chest or see as much nasal discharge. Antibiotics, if effective against the bacteria in question, don’t take very long to start working. If someone doesn’t see improvement about half way through the course of antibiotics, then many vets will recommend trying another one.

I’m sorry to hear Milo is having such a rough time. My vet recommended GenTeal eye drops to help keep a semi-paralyzed eye lubricated. I’m not sure if that would help Milo’s eye or not.

[Cassie119300]

Unfortunately my Milo has passed on today, he passed away in his sleep after 4am sometime and was still warm when I found him. I tried everything with feeding, fluids, critical care, and gave him metacam before he passed. He still ate some greens, but he began to have very watery poop last night and became weaker the last few losing more ounces despite me giving him enough food and water. 3 pounds 0.6 oz this makes me think maybe something went on with his liver or kidneys and he really had a lot going on with him. I told the vet about this, and even though i was doing everything I could when I had taken him to the vet on the 18th they said he lost more weight and was still needing a little more water, any fluids i gave him he peed out within a half hour. I still believe if the vet had done what I asked them to months ago he wouldn’t have gone so downhill. They didn’t offer to give him fluids or anything. I asked for an ear culture which they charged me 300 for as I did not want to pay to subject him to “acupuncture therapy” for a second time in his weak condition, they only suggested flushing his ears and did not give me a price. The culture still is being processed for some strange reason as they sent it to a lab.  He was my baby for almost 7 years it would have been in March.. I did all I could.. I just wish I could have done more for him. He was the sweetest loving most gentle relaxed rabbit and would lay by my feet on his blanket every day.

[Bam]

I’m so very sorry you lost him. He was obviously very sick, and you did absolutely everything.

EC often affects the kidneys as well as the central nervous system. It’s an insidious disease. It can affect and do damage to any organ that has a high blood flow.

I’m glad you got to have each other for 7 years, but I wish you could have had many more.

It’s very tough to lose a rabbit. They’re such wonderful and loving creatures.

[DanaNM]

I’m very sorry to hear this. 🙁

You did amazing for him, I agree he was very sick, as Bam said. I feel we get closer to our rabbits when they are sick, so it’s even harder when we lose them. 🙁

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Cassie119300]

Thank you everyone for your kind words, I will miss him a lot he was like my child and best friend, but I find comfort in the fact he’s no longer suffering, I kept it all at bay for for a very long time thanks to echinacea but nonetheless it happened, I know lop eared rabbits are not as lucky. I did however give the vet an ear full on not having treated his ears properly long ago or even trying to diagnose any other issues let alone take blood work this entire time, and for telling me he still seemed a little dehydrated despite me doing literally everything and me not knowing why he was still losing weight, it didn’t make sense. All along they just kept giving me dewormer and refusing to check his ears properly or teeth. They even once said to give him yogurt drops as “probiotics”. I had them take this culture on his ear and it’s been over a week when I was told initially 1-2 days which became longer and longer as they send it out to a lab and “don’t want to do” their own. When I questioned this I was told “you can’t rush it” does it really take a whole week to grow? Craziest things I’ve ever heard, instead they tried to sell me on two acupuncture appointments early on, I tried the first which in his condition I was hesitant and did not know what it entailed, and they suckered me into it and when I said no to the second one after being charged almost 300 just for the acupuncture they kept trying to sell me on another one and even said “i would hate to see him go backwards” and I had to say no twice. So I could not help but giving them a piece of my mind and some schooling at that. I said please, don’t do this to anyone else.

[Cassie119300]

Yes, I got the results today that Milo had the bacteria pseudomonas aeruginosa in his ear as follows:

Isolate 1 (Pseudomonas aeruginosa)
Moxifloxacin                  Resistant
Ceftazidime                   Intermediate
Amikacin                      Sensitive
Gentamicin                   Sensitive
Ciprofloxacin                 Intermediate
Enrofloxacin                  Resistant
Marbofloxacin                Intermediate

He was never treated properly and I was told that I should have asked to have him referred to cornell university in Ithaca NY if I wanted blood tests etc as they were not equipped to “do any of it”. Had he been, and had this vet given him more fluids intravenously, he might have been here still. It’s very unfortunate…. but I more or less told them to not let it happen to anyone else, it was their duty to inform me and refer me as a vet, and if they couldn’t do that, they should not be wasting their time or people’s time.

[DanaNM]

Gahhh I’m so sorry. That is so incredibly frustrating (to put it lightly). 🙁

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Cassie119300]

Yes 🙁 I think that’s what is making it so difficult to accept it as I know it shouldn’t have ever happened, I know I did everything I could. It seemed I was unfortunate in that this vet was in it for the money and nothing more, and rather than refer they cost me a life. Thank you everyone for your kind words. Milo was truly my child, he was there when I was incredibly Ill and I got to do the same for him.

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