Medical treatment-mites

[valy]

Hello,

First of all sorry for my poor English, if I make mistakes with some terms.
I have two rabbits:
a buck of 3 years:
   
and a doe of 4 years:
   
   
   
They were both spayed two years ago. The doe(the gray one, the chinchilla) has a “poop” problem from little and after she was spayed things got worse. She does normal poop too, but a lot of moist ones also that sticks to her bum and tail. Her skin from there is hairless, a bit red and swollen almost all the time.
I’ve changed her diet many times and I give them now only simple good pellets, hay and water. I even bought from outside some Fibreplex and for 2-3 days she was fine but after the same thing happen again. This happen without Fibreplex too so it may have been a coincidence. She sometimes has a couple of days when she is fine.
They live in the same cage and the male(buck) doesn’t have anything. She almost has no hair on her tail.
She also has some crusts for some time on her back(above the tail) and at her tail base. I supposed that these may have formed because of all the poop.
In these past two years I have taken twice some poop to be examined, but I don’t think the vets did them as I didn’t received anything and both said that she has nothing.
I have now find another vet that knows about rabbits(here in my country are very rare) and made some exams(this time they were made and I received files for each of them). We made an ultrasound, a blood test, poop test and one for the crusts on her skin. The ultrasound and the blood test came good, but in the poop and crust they were shocked as they said she is full of mites.
How could she have gotten them? Could she have had them from little and they multiplied and that’s why the poop problem became more serious?
Why didn’t the male got them too and has the same problem? I saw sometimes some small crusts on him but nothing to be concerned about.

Now the vet gave us treatment for both of them. The vet said that we need to do an internal and external worming(if I said it well).
She gave us this to put on the back of their neck:
http://www.petnet.hu/bayer/advantage…l/termek/4669/
And this to give them on mouth:
http://lekaren.sme.sk/odcervenie/2232-pr…0-tbl.html

Is the treatment ok or would there have been something better?
Thanks a lot.

Ps: I forgot to say. She kind of forces herself to pee. She rises herself on her feet and bends her back a bit to the top. Is this because of the mites problem too?

[Sarita]

Welcome! I don’t think the mite and poop problem are related. Advantage is safe however I don’t think this helps with mites, it’s just for ticks and fleas as far as I know. I am not at all familiar with the second treatment – I don’t recognize this – may be that we don’t have this treatment in the US. Does you vet know about ivomectin for the mites? I’m not sure if you can get Revolution where you are at either.

The peeing makes me think she may have a urinary tract infection…did your vet test for this?

[valy]

Thanks for the answer.
Well i thought too how would the mites be related with the poop problem, but because they didn’t find anything else wrong I thought that maybe we found the problem.
The second treatment is for tapeworms, that’s what is written on it.
I read alot about Ivermectin(ivomec) and after she gave us this treatment I decided to wait a bit more and see if this is the right one or not.
I’ve searched and read about the peeing problem too and found the same answer like yours “urinary tract infection”. Would there be another test for this beside the ones I’ve made?

ps: I’m from Romania

[Sarita]

Your vet should be able to do a urinalysis that will check the urine.

I think your our only Romanian member! Also, your English is very good so don’t worry at all about that.

As for the poop – how is her hay consumption? Does she eat alot?

[jerseygirl]

Welcome Valy : )

I just wanted to ask if she has wet fur much around her bottom? It does sound as if she has trouble to pee and if the urine is on the fur and skin, this can cause some fur loss and redness. Along with urinary tract infection, you may want to ask your vet to see if she had too much calcium build up in her bladder.

It looks as though she’s put on a anti-parasitic. Some types of med will only target certain internal parasites though. Has the vet tested or said what type of parasite they are treating? Coccidia is a common one that can cause some messy poop. Toltrazuril is supposed to be effective against this sort of parasite.

 

but in the poop and crust they were shocked as they said she is full of mites.
How could she have gotten them? Could she have had them from little and they multiplied and that’s why the poop problem became more serious?
Why didn’t the male got them too and has the same problem?

I think yes, she could have always had them. If her health is poor from other things, parasites take opportunity to multiply and cause real infestation. This may also be why you see more on her but not on your buck. His immune system may be keeping the numbers down.

Ivermectin can be in a form called selamectin also. This term might help you locate a product if ivomectin doesn’t. Ivomectin is the more known term though.

It’s good you’ve found a vet that’s helping more. I hope you can sort out what’s happening.

[jerseygirl]

I agree, your English is very good!

[valy]

Posted By Sarita on 11/27/2010 03:41 PM
Your vet should be able to do a urinalysis that will check the urine.

I think your our only Romanian member! Also, your English is very good so don’t worry at all about that.

As for the poop – how is her hay consumption? Does she eat alot?

I think I’ll try to take some urine too to the vet. This started when the poop covered more often her bum and she couldn’t pee.

She eats hay. I don’t know exactly what it meens much because they are both eating, but I feel the recipient every day.

[valy]

Posted By jerseygirl on 11/27/2010 03:50 PM

Welcome Valy : )

I just wanted to ask if she has wet fur much around her bottom? It does sound as if she has trouble to pee and if the urine is on the fur and skin, this can cause some fur loss and redness. Along with urinary tract infection, you may want to ask your vet to see if she had too much calcium build up in her bladder.

It looks as though she’s put on a anti-parasitic. Some types of med will only target certain internal parasites though. Has the vet tested or said what type of parasite they are treating? Coccidia is a common one that can cause some messy poop. Toltrazuril is supposed to be effective against this sort of parasite.

 
 

She wasn’t wet when she had hair. The poop just stick to her bum and soon after it becomes hard and hard even to wash. I always have troubles washing her as I can’t clean her very well. The poop is hard and stick like crazy on her skin so that I don’t make wounds on her skin I can’t always clean her well. I can’t wash her every day also as I’m afraid that she might become sick.

I asked what exactly does she have, but the vet didn’t say much, just that she has mites.

[jerseygirl]

Sorry, I meant to clarify above, i was referring to external parasites like fur mite when I mentioned infestation.
 

How do you go about washing her? Some members have said you can put a little water in bottom of sink or tub and allow the soiled area to soak and soften up. Though I think it would be hard to get a rabbit to stay still enough!

[Sarita]

How many pellets do you give her? It sounds as if she is overproducing cecals.

[valy]

Posted By jerseygirl on 11/27/2010 04:29 PM

Sorry, I meant to clarify above, i was referring to external parasites like fur mite when I mentioned infestation.
 

How do you go about washing her? Some members have said you can put a little water in bottom of sink or tub and allow the soiled area to soak and soften up. Though I think it would be hard to get a rabbit to stay still enough!

 

Yes, we wash her in the tub with a bit of warm water. My husband keeps her front legs in his hand and with the other hand over her head to keep her calm. In the meantime I wash her, soak her bottom in warm water till the poop comes off. She was washed for soo many times that she is used now, poor her.

[valy]

Posted By Sarita on 11/27/2010 04:30 PM
How many pellets do you give her? It sounds as if she is overproducing cecals.

I give them both as they eat from the same bowl about a cup(of 300ml) in the eavening and they have to eat from it in the morning as well.

Is it too much?

[Sarita]

It may be. Can you tell me how much each weigh? Do they both only get the pellets, hay and water?

[valy]

Well I should weigh them these days as I didn’t have for some time. She was about 4,3 kg and he is a bit smaller so I suppose maybe around 3kg and something.
Yes, they eat the same thing: pellets, hay and water.

[Sarita]

Well, then the pellets are not too much really for rabbits this size. So no, it’s fine if it’s just pellets, hay, and water.

What vegetables have you tried with them? It sounds as if you give them hay all day long, is that correct? Do you know what type hay it is that you give them?

[valy]

The veggies that they liked the most are: dill, parsley, cucumber and pepper.

Yes they have hay all day long.

Here the hay is all the same. It just say hay and doesn’t specify. I hate that too.

I give them this one:

http://i40.tinypic.com/mazbs5.jpg

and I just bought this one that looks a bit better but is more dry, not green:

http://www.agripetshop.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/5e06319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/f/i/file_67_47.jpg

The one that looks greener is the one from Vitakraft like this one, but I rarely find it and i don’t like it that much as is very small and thin:

http://www.shelfridges.co.uk/VitakraftImages/25266.jpg

I also just bought some lucerne briquette from Lolo. Are they good?

http://www.lovepets.nl/catalog/images/LO-71007.1.JPG

[Sarita]

Those hays all seem to be grass hays (from what I can tell just by the photo) so those should be fine.

The lucerne briquettes are great as treats.

I wonder though if your pellets are alfalfa – I suspect they probably are. Sometimes the alfalfa is a little too rich for adult rabbits and that could be the reason for the possible “poopy butt” which is basically cecal dybiosis.

Any treats or fruits in their diets? Do your pellets have little bits of stuff in it or is it just straight pellets?

[valy]

I don’t give them fruits or veggies anymore.
The pellets I give them are:
http://www.jardineriepasero.com/components/com_virtuemart/shop_image/product/VirtueMart487c9c974391d.jpg
and this but the Sensitive version(it only has a couple of pieces of carrots, peas, strings of hay and something black that looks like seeds peel):
http://www.zoozoo.lv/image/image/137/big/gimborn_grauzejiem_junior.jpg

I also just bought from Lolo Pets the Lucerne granulate, Green Rolls, Colour Rolls :
http://www.lolopets.com/n/eng/gryzonie_krolik_karma.html
and this granulate food:
http://www.lolopets.com/n/eng/gryzonie_krolik_granulat.html

On them it either sais cereals, vegetables, dried grass or lucerne.
Are they good? It’s hard to find simple pellets here.

[Beka27]

Have you tried giving a diet with hay and veggies but no pellets (or very, very few pellets)?

[valy]

Well when I gave her veggies she made more runny poops. Will it be better to limit the pellets slowly and add veggies?
A couple of people told me that she might be a little overweight and her dewlap is quite large. Is her?
Here are more images with her. Some are older, but she’s almost the same.

 

[Sarita]

She’s pretty! I would try pellets with no bits at all – those bits are junk food for rabbits. Can you find something with no bits in it, just straight pellets.

She probably could stand loose some weight which may help with the “poopy butt” – sometimes rabbits who are a bit overweight tend to not to be able to eat their cecals easily. A little activity is best to help lose weight.

Always slowly change their diet just as you are suggesting.

[valy]

Thanks. Ok, then I’ll remove the junk food from the Gimborn package as the rest are simple pellets or rolls.
Do you recognize the food I’ve bought or do you know a good one that is more known in the world?
Are the fallowing better than the ones I’ve bought?
This she liked them a lot but they were expensive(double price) and I stopped buying them:
http://www.zooplus.de/bilder/1/97631_vitakraft_zkregular_1.jpg
Or this:
http://www.bunnybasics.net/images/vitakraft-nibble-rings.jpg

[Sarita]

I’m not familiar with any of these brands. I would just say go simple on the pellets. She probably loves all the junk food but it’s not the best for her.

These pellets are definitely made for a different market so it’s a bit hard to advise other than to go simple. I’m certain they are all alfalfa and that’s fine because that’s all you can get – I think you call them lucerne.

[valy]

Ok, no problem thanks.
So the ones that are lucerne are alfalfa.
Regarding the hay, which one is better? Alfalfa or timothy?
After I searched a bit on the internet it seems more like I have timothy hay.

[jerseygirl]

Valy, you might be able to find Science Selective Mature Rabbit where you are. It’s by Supreme foods. I believe Burgess Excell is another good pellet available in UK but don’t know if in EU.

I’m glad you posted another picture as the 1st ones are not showing for me. She looks sweet. She looks smaller than 4.5kg

[jerseygirl]

Timothy or grass hays are better for the adult rabbit. Lucerne is ok in limited amounts but it can be too rich for some.

A few members (Rippy and Karla) are in EU. I’ll see if they can look in on this thread and suggest some brands or suppliers.

[valy]

Thanks a lot.
Ok, than timothy or grass is better than alfalfa.
I didn’t see neither the Supreme or Burgess Excell in any shops till now, but I think they just got here too as I found in a shop on the internet these two(but they are not the good ones):


I can find here these ones:
http://www.versele-laga.com/NUTRI/Nutrition/Pages/Products/index.jsp?ran=19809&pro=19811&fam=224&ani=5335&rac=0
They didn’t like them too much but if they are good for them I’ll buy them again.

I found this in an internet shop also:

[KatnipCrzy]

Has your vet done a skin scraping to check for mites on your bunny?  One might be more affected than the other bunny due to an immune system that is not as strong.

For urinary problems your vet might want to take an x-xay to see if there is any calcium sludge in the bladder which is very obvious on x-rays.

[valy]

Yes , she picked some hair from the parts that she has crusts and the results came that she is full of mites.
She gave us this to put on the back of their neck:
http://www.petnet.hu/bayer/advantage…l/termek/4669/
And this to give them on mouth:
http://lekaren.sme.sk/odcervenie/2232-pr…0-tbl.html

So with a x-ray you can see if she has urinary problems or not, right? I’m so mad right now that she didn’t say anything about this problems as I said she is struggling when she’s peeing. It’s a long way from me to a clinic that has everything and we don’t have a car yet.
I thought that she may have an urinary infection because of all the poop that always sticks to her bottom.
I’ll wait a bit to see what will happen with the diet and the treatment and soon I’ll take her for other exams too(urinary, teeth).

[jerseygirl]

So with a x-ray you can see if she has urinary problems or not, right?

Calcium sediment or stones in the bladder will show up in x-ray. I don’t think tract infection would show in xray though.  It is very possible she gets tract infections as yes, this can go along with poopy butt. It may be that they come and go.  Her posture when urinating could also be from discomfort of mites too.

Hang in there. You’ll get her sorted out. You sound very commited to getting her healthy. : )

[valy]

I sure hope so. We had another one 5 years ago, a beauty that was sleeping a lot with me. She had a skin problem and the vets killed her with too much antibiotics. She died in my arms in so much pain that my heart rips apart when I’m thinking.
Now I want to make sure 100 times before I make a decision.
Here are some photos:

[jerseygirl]

Oh my!!!  You’ve brought tears to my eyes now. I’m sorry for your loss. She looked very sweet.  She is the colouring of my rabbit Jersey!  

[valy]

Yes, she was lovely and like I’ve said she was used sleeping on my hand that sometimes her head fell down like here

She was only 8 months when she died.

[valy]

I just saw your bunnies photos and they are gorgeous. Yes, Jersey looks like her(Yuki was her name) only that she had the brown a bit lighter and Rumbell has the same coloring like my boy has(his name is Chibi).
The girl with poop problem is Puchi.

[jerseygirl]

Thanks! I love them. I just love them all!

Asides from Puchi’s poop problem, I hope you’ll stick around for some fun too. As you may be able to tell, the forums are pretty active.

[jerseygirl]

 

[Karla]

Hi Vale. I see you are a bit of an online shopper  If you need meds for rabbits, that your vet does not have, I suggest you use

http://www.vetuk.co.uk and petmeds.co.uk

You can buy Ivermetin for rabbits here: http://www.vetuk.co.uk/rabbit-suppl…-c-649_418

I wonder about the med, your vet gave you, as it is for dogs. May I ask how much you give your rabbit? Thing is that dog doses can actually cause harm in rabbits.

I don’t know if are familiar with Galens Garden – http://www.galensgarden.co.uk -  but they make natural herbal remedies for small herbivorous pets. They have lots of knowledge in rabbits and rabbit diseases actually, and if you write to them, they are really helpful in explaining to you what you can do. I would think it would be a really good idea to boost the immune system with dried echinecea, and as for the poop, Galens Garden can guide you. They have helped me a lot with a bunny with E. Cuniculi. 

As for the poop problems, as others have suggested, I would try to cut down on the pellets. I had a bunny who got loose stools from commercial pellets.  Galens Garden make herb aromatic pellets and echinacea pellets which may be a better vitamin supplement for you rabbits than the ordinary pellets you can buy.

[valy]

Yes jerseygirl I’ll take a look more around here.

Thanks Karla for the links. Well it’s faster to search online when you can’t find in the actual shops.
Last time I bought the Fibreplex from here http://www.vetscriptions.co.uk and the package arrived very fast.
Yes, the tablets are for dogs. They were very cheap(2 tablets=$1.5) and I don’t trust them so much. She said that one tablet is for 10kg so I have to divide it according to her weight. One tablet is to divide it and give to both of them now and the other after about a month.

I’ll sure send Galens Garden an email too.

[Karla]

I forgot to mention that sage, and other naturally aromatic culinary herbs are natural anthelmintics. That means that they kill parasites. So if I were you I would buy herbs like basil, rosemary, sage et.c and feed your bunnies. You can use both fresh and dried herbs.

I get dried herbs from Galens Garden, but also from local health food stores, which sell tons of dried herbs for teas. You can use those. And then of course, there are the herb pellets from Galens Garden, which are designed for this purpose.

[valy]

Thanks Karla. I’ll make sure today or tomorrow to search some at the herbs shops from here and in the meantime I’ll send an email to Galens Garden too.
I can’t wait to see what they’ll answer.

[jerseygirl]

Be careful with sage as some types are supposed to be toxic.

[Sarita]

I think culinary sage is what they are talking about – I would never feed any sage other than this.

[Sarita]

Oh, and I have tried sage and my rabbits don’t like this – too strong I think.

[valy]

I didn’t find them at the shop near me so I’ll look more these days.
I also sent an email to Galen’s Garden and I’m waiting for their answer. Hope they know something good for her.

[valy]

We began cutting the pellets slowly, but I believe it will get some time to get to a normal diet as I suppose it’s not good to cut the food too sudden. Tomorrow we want to start the treatment the vet gave us so today we washed her as she was full of poop again.

I also made some photos of her after the bath(the ones I posted were a bit older), but as you can see she’s the same:

and here is her bottom. There still is a bit of poop hanging that she didn’t let me remove it because it was stick to her skin:

[Deleted User]

I would even cut out the veggies too for period of time and maintain her on just hay and water. Then start by adding one kind of vegetable at a time to see how she does. Definitely avoid pellets with lucerne in it. Some rabbits can’t handle the higher protein content of the lucerne pellets.

Has the vet checked her for urinary tract infection yet? You can’t wait for this, she looks like she needs it now, she looks urine-scalded in the photo.

[Deleted User]

You might like to print this article and even take it to your vet next time you go. It is written by one of the most-respected rabbit researchers

http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/poop.html

[valy]

Petzy, I don’t give her any veggies from a long time now. I’ve also thrown away all the alfalfa/lucerne food.
No, the vet didn’t checked her ever though I’ve said she is forcing herself to pee, but I think the vet didn’t have the necessary equipment and didn’t bother to say anything.
In the photo above is not urine. She wasn’t fully dried after the bath. In all that place that she is very red the poop usually sticks and comes very hard off. The yellow hair is not from urine but from the poop because even if I wash her today, tomorrow or the next day she has poop again so the hair doesn’t have time to clean itself.
And thanks for the link, I’ve read it all.

We’ve made the treatment the vet gave us for the mites and also started dieting. After 2 weeks we have to give her again some tablets for the internal worms. We’ll be keeping an eye on her for a while to see how it goes with this.

[LoveChaCha]

have you coonsidered a second opinion from another vet? I don’t like how the vet didn’t bother to check her up.

[valy]

I have asked so many till now that I’m sick and tired of them. This was the second one that I found to know more about rabbits. The first one is the one that is the best vet in town that is also a college professor of veterinary medicine specialized in exotic animals, but that one is even worse as he doesn’t want to speak much. It’s like I’m talking to myself “She has this and this, maybe she has this and she might need this or this…” If I wouldn’t have asked he wouldn’t have said what I should/shouldn’t do after she was spayed. Also when she was spayed I gave him some poop for tests and he only said she doesn’t have anything, but didn’t bother to look more at her or say that she needs other tests. After she was spayed the wound didn’t close well and there was a hole. That vet gave us a powder that didn’t want to close the would and instead it had become more like puss. Another vet gave us a cream for humans that she used for cats in such situations and it was very good and the would closed very quickly and well with it. Also when he gives a treatment he doesn’t say what it is so I don’t like it.

[Author]

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