Is it possible to bond 2 does

[Plumped Cuddly Bunnies]

Is it possible to bond two un-spayed does?

My main concern is that they will fight and seriously injure one another. I’ve managed to bond them before and sometimes they get on and other times they will fight. I do have a male rabbit who is kept alone and I’m in the process of making a difficult decision on whether I should find him a new home or whether to keep him if it makes things better for the two females. I don’t know if I can afford to have him neutered which could be 160 to 500 pounds.

[Wick & Fable]

If you can’t neuter the male rabbit, do not keep him with your females– you will have repeated pregnancies.

Based on the history you’ve shared (“sometimes they get on and other times they will fight”), it sounds like you cannot bond these two females. There are rare circumstances where two unspayed females will have a baby bond and it becomes a true bond into adulthood, but that is not what has happened between your females, so it is unlikely you can bond them unless you have both spayed and get hormones out of the equation. Please note that females have a very high risk of uterine cancer development, so bonding aside, spaying females is highly recommended.

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[Plumped Cuddly Bunnies]

That is a real shame. I was hoping to keep all 3. I can see now why so many are in shelters.

 

I will do my best with trying to bond the two females and see how it goes. They did have a baby bond so there is some hope I’ll just have to see how things go otherwise I will have to re-home them and find some already neutered/spayed bonded bunnies. The male will probably have to go unfortunately.

Edit: on second thoughts I can keep the two females but just keep there living space separate and let them out supervised I don’t think there will be too much of a problem. I have already separated all of them but its just not practical especially with the male and nothing will improve until his scent has gone which means re-homing him.

[GlennTheLionhead]

Its highly recommended that females are spayed, about 75-80% of unspayed does will develop uterine cancer by age 4.

Bonds between spayed/neutered rabbit are usually successful. Many rabbits thrive in pairs/groups.

You may be able to reach out to charities for help with costs. I have also heard some resuces can advise people on rabbit vets that do spaying for cheap. Many vets in the UK offer the option of paying in installments as well which may be an option where you are too.

 

[Plumped Cuddly Bunnies]

Unfortunately there aren’t any charities that offer free or low cost neutering services for rabbits. They only deal with cats and dogs and even with those there are limited spaces plus a very long waiting list. I’ve checked out all the animal charities I can think of and they are all saying the same thing. None will deal with rabbits. There are a couple of other avenues I will look into but I’m pretty sure its going to be the same situation. The only option at this stage is a rabbit savvy private vet which are not cheap at all. I will explore every avenue first.

[Wick & Fable]

I understand that you want a pet rabbit, but reading that the known rabbit-savvy vets “are not cheap at all” and it makes you reluctant to go brings up a discussion on whether a pet rabbit is the right pet for you right now– regardless if a rabbit is fixed or not, you will inevitably need to take a pet rabbit to the vet, and it will always need to be a rabbit-savvy vet. Spays and neuters can be expensive, but that price is not unique to those procedures– many rabbit veterinary services costs $100+ (USD), in addition to spays/neuters. A general wellness exam is often at least $75 (USD), and I’ve been to 4 different rabbit-savvy vets for my rabbits due to moving around. Pet rabbits are expensive animals to keep, and they live for 10+ years, so if you are not in a financial situation and/or location where rabbit-savvy veterinary services are not accessible, it may be best to pause pet rabbit ownership until circumstances change.

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[talesOfTybalt]

Do you possibly have a Vets4Pets anywhere near you? They are a chain and of course you’d have to suss out yourself how much you trust them but in my experience I’ve been to a couple in London/Essex and they’ve been great for my rabbits – their standard neuter cost for a bunny is about £48 I believe, including the metacam to take home after and the post op check to confirm it’s healing okay. Hope that helps!

[Plumped Cuddly Bunnies]

Excellent. There is one near me. I wont get my hopes up too much tho but I’ll give those a try. 48 pounds for a neuter is alright. 🙂

[Plumped Cuddly Bunnies]

Just an update on vets4pets its 130 pounds to neuter a rabbit which doesn’t include the consultation fee so all together its close to 200 pounds.

[Plumped Cuddly Bunnies]

After reading the reviews on Vets4Pets I’m not sure I can trust them as many have said they only want your money and add on extra fees. They have more bad ratings than good. 48 pounds for a neuter sounds nice but I expect it would probably come to much more if extra charges were added. I know no vet will be perfect but I would prefer a fixed price rather than ending up with lots of money to pay out.

[LBJ10]

What about rabbit shelters/rescues? The would have a vet that they use to spay and neuter their rabbits. Oftentimes, they get those services at a discounted rate. You may ask around to see if they could help you out with lower cost spays/neuters. From what I understand, you did rescue these bunnies and you intended to rehome at least some of them anyway.

[Plumped Cuddly Bunnies]

I’ve asked some of them  but they said it doesn’t work that way. They wont neuter or spay a rabbit unless its in there shelter which makes no sense, so basically in order for them to neuter and spay my bunnies I would have to give them up which isn’t going to happen so I have to get them done myself without any help towards the cost. The PDSA for example used to offer free vet care for one rabbit and for additional rabbits low cost vet care but they aren’t doing that anymore its only for cats and dogs and a lot of other charities have done the same.

[Plumped Cuddly Bunnies]

I’ve found a few more places that “might” be able to help me get my bunnies spayed and neutered but I’m not going to hold my breath on it but certainly worth asking. I will do some ringing about tomorrow. I strongly believe that all three of these rabbits will bond once they are spayed and neutered. They all had a bond until there hormones started up.

Sometimes when we try to help we end up doing more harm than good. Its best to leave the shelters to do the rescuing rather than individuals like myself. That way the rabbits get what they need before re-homing.

If all else fails tomorrow then I have a Plan B. I know at best they might be able to only offer one rabbit free vet care and that is a huge help alone leaving me with just two rabbits to pay vet bills on. Anyway here is my Plan B…

I’m going to set up another bank account which will be used as my animal funds so that I’ve got money for vet bills. I will put some money into it once I set it up and then find a vet that has a payment plan to where I can pay in installments via direct debit.

[Plumped Cuddly Bunnies]

I also forgot to mention vaccines, I gotta pay for those too.

So as I currently understand its just two vaccines right? RDH1/RDH2 which I believe is one vaccine now and then the myxomatosis vaccine which they need every 12 months. What is the exact number of vaccines that each rabbit would need each year?

[Plumped Cuddly Bunnies]

I think I must be the only person on this forum today.

Just an update… I have put the two females together. I have been working with them since early this morning re-bonding them. Its now the afternoon and they are both getting on with each other. No fighting or chasing. I could probably take a nap now. I’m on standby to intervene if they start to fight again. They will both go into separate cages tonight. Its going very well.

[GlennTheLionhead]

Hey!

So for vaccines in the UK they will need yearly jabs for RVHD1 & 2 and myxomatosis. Many vets will do this jab as a single jab so just once a year.

Also I wouldn’t necessarily rule out vets for pets too quickly. Each V4P is different they basically are their own private run service that are bought under the branch names V4P and adhere to certain standards. I have never experienced them adding on hidden charges, they’ve always given me an estimated up front price, usually if you ask them for a total price they will be able to give an accurate figure. V4P also offer to pay by klarna pay in 3 installments so its not as much upfront. They also have care plans where you can pay like £8 a month and get yearly jabs, vet check up, flystrike treatment and more discounts. I have used V4P at about 3/4 different locations in the country and they have always been good 🙂 i use them for general stuff like jabs and check ups, they also did my spay and neuter and then I take them to an exotics vet for more specialised treatments and opinions.  Just thought I’d share my experience to help you to decide, I would just say to make sure your own local V4P has an experienced rabbit person there and ask only to see them specifically, some branches don’t have anyone with adequate rabbit experience, it just varies . RWAF website also has links to the best rabbit vets in your area.

Pet insurance can also be very helpful in paying for vet bills. I use pet plan and it is essentially the same as saving up except they will pay out up to 2000 per year per pet on pretty much any issue excluding neuters/spay and dental burring and teeth trimming. Insurance has saved me a lot of money!

All I can say about the females is to keep them seperate… I can see that you mean well and want them to enjoy eachothers company but its unsafe for them as unspayed does are unpredictable, they can be in love for days and then one night just break out into a nasty fight that may result in injury.

Good luck with everything and keep us updated 🙂

[Plumped Cuddly Bunnies]

I’ve found a vet called Celia Hammond Animal Trust and do cheap vet care but this is only at two of there clinics.

Neutering is 30 pounds

Spaying is 35 pounds

Consultation fee is 19 pounds but I could probably skip on that and just get straight to it. However often these sites have outdated information and things change and normally when I phone these types of places they’ll say that there not doing it anymore or give a totally different price.

[Plumped Cuddly Bunnies]

I’m absolutely exhausted today. I had a lot to do today and I only managed to get a tiny bit done on the bunny side of things. I’m hoping to get the male bunny booked in by the end of the week for a neuter then the spaying of the females to follow right after… I still have to register and I’ll expect to wait until they process all my information then fit me in with an appointment, hopefully it wont take too long. Vets are very busy right now.

[Plumped Cuddly Bunnies]

Upon doing lots of research I can bond two un-spayed females together and I have put the two females together and there have been no issues. I am confident I can leave them alone together tonight. Its a lot easier and less stressful for the rabbits being all alone and as my two females were bonded before its been very easy to re-bond them.

I did type out a longer post on this subject but lost it all when I tried to insert a youtube video. anyway there are lots of videos and general info on this subject around the web.

I’ve known people to keep groups of un-spayed female rabbits together without issues. Bonding un-neutered bucks is a lot more tricky and those must be neutered especially if they are going to be put with females.

 

[Bam]

Regarding vaccinations, in Europe we now have a triple vaccine that protects against myxomatosis and RVHD1 and 2. It’s called Nobivac Plus. I think that’s what is used in the UK now. I’ve used it twice for my current bun and once before for a bun who is no longer with us. None of them showed any signs of sideeffects.

I would trust a low cost vet, because they’re likely to have done a great many neuters ands spays. A healthy neuter is a simple affair. Complications may arise if the boy is + 5 years old, or ill in some way, or very fat. I havent made consultations prior to durgery for my buns, but they’ve all been healthy and young and normal weight.

The bond between to unspayed does is not likely to be as stable as that between two desexed girls. The presence of a neutered male can be stabilizing or de-stabilizing, it depends on the dynamics between the  individuals in the constellation.

[Plumped Cuddly Bunnies]

The triple vaccine makes life a lot easier so I assume that its one vaccine a year?

Well so far its been rather stressful trying to find a vet who will neuter and spay my rabbits. A few vets can do it but are very busy and waiting times are 3 weeks minimal. I went to the RSPCA today to see if I can get at least the male seen too but they wont even open there doors to the public, honestly I felt like crying I really want to keep all 3 of these rabbits and get them what they need. They need there vaccines urgently and spaying and neutering and its getting impossible to find a vet who can do it now rather than in weeks or months time. I’m going to try Vets4Pets again and just plea with them to get an earlier appointment. I can’t even book them in for emergency because its not life threatening.

Blue Cross offers free spaying/neutering and vaccinating up to two rabbits but I don’t qualify because my post code isn’t listed in there criteria.

PDSA  Offer free vet care for one bunny and low cost vet care for additional rabbits but no longer offer this as they no longer deal with rabbits.

RSPCA Could not care less about animals and wont even open there doors to the public but are quick enough to ask for donations.

Celia Hammond Animal Trust I’ve been unable to get a response from them and still trying

Vet4Pets are fully booked up and the earliest appointment I can get is 3 weeks away and there is no guarantee.

[DanaNM]

Ugh I’m sorry you are having such a hard time finding a vet. 🙁  Unfortunately this is a common situation these days, it seems vets all over are completely overrun, as are the shelters (dealing with the fallout of everyone getting pandemic pets). The best advice I have is pick a vet and make the appointment, even if it’s far in advance. Even if you have to space out the neuter and spays over a long time at least you will be making some progress (and will be able to save up for each one). 3 weeks isn’t too long relative to some of the times I’ve heard on this site. Once you get “in” with a vet you like, it’s easier to make appointments in the future, it’s just those initial visits that can be hard to book because you are basically looking for a vet that’s accepting new patients as well.

Do keep a very close eye on your females and hopefully you can get them spayed in time. I’ve heard many stories on this forum of serious fights breaking out in un-spayed does.

Apologies if I’ve repeated something that was already said, I just skimmed the thread!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Plumped Cuddly Bunnies]

I will keep trying that’s all I can really do and just hope I can get an appointment whenever possible and try and make the best out of a bad situation for the rabbits although sometimes I just feel so helpless and frustrated that I can’t get them treatment soon enough this is only going to lead to more pets going into shelters if vet care starts becoming scarce. I am not going to give in to it and keep my head up, there has got to be something out there.

I will look forward to the time I’ll be able to have them altogether running about and sitting with them. That vision seems like such a long way off.

[Plumped Cuddly Bunnies]

I’m trying an experiment with the two females. I put them back together again for playtime but I may try leave them both alone together tonight. one likes to nip the other occasionally but then again she is a very mischievous bunny who has also nipped me a few times today because she can’t get her own way. The other bunny is as good as gold. I’m thinking the longer I leave them both together the better they will get on to where they will both eventually be able to live together on a permanent basis.

[DanaNM]

How old are they?

I’m a bit concerned they are getting along because they are young and things may fall apart when puberty kicks in (can happen between 4 and 7 months in females).

If you plan to keep them together overnight you absolutely must supervise them so you can intervene if a fight breaks out. Fighting often occurs overnight during bonding, even when things are going fine during the day.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Plumped Cuddly Bunnies]

They are 6 months old. They were very quiet last night, I’m a light sleeper and I’m just meters away so if a fight did start I’d wake up to intervene. They were both sleeping next to each other this morning. I did separate them when I went out but now I’m back I’ve put them back together.

[DanaNM]

Gotcha…. yeah at 6 months I would consider this to be a “baby bond”, which is not typically a lasting bond.

I understand that for housing purposes you really want them to be living together and are having a really hard time finding someone to spay them, but I personally would not trust this bond. Mature female rabbits are extremely territorial so once they reach adulthood they will seek to set up their territory. That change can happen in a flash, almost as though a switch was flipped.

We have had soooo many people seek help on the forum over the years that had sisters or young female rabbits together and they suddenly start fighting viciously. Once that happens it can be hard to repair the relationship.

 

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Plumped Cuddly Bunnies]

I had to separate them because they started to chase each other about humping one another, they can smell the male. I had to have him out today because I had to do some work and he got into the living room so I just left him to run about then he went back into his pen afterwards.

I let the females into the living room to roam about but not at the same time. The two females were secured in there pen at the time when the male got into the living room. His scent has sent the two females crazy tonight, they wasn’t phased by it earlier. They literally just started. They are separated now until tomorrow when I can supervise them both during play time.

[DanaNM]

It could be the male, but it also is likely to just be hormones kicking in.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Plumped Cuddly Bunnies]

I’m just wondering if it would be better to get another male bunny a neutered one to go with my un-neutered male bunny to keep him company or would they fight?

 

[Wick & Fable]

No, they would still fight — even two fixed rabbits will fight if they are incompatible. To maximize the likelihood and stability of a bond between two rabbits, both rabbits need to be at least 1mo post-spay/neuter and they should go through a bonding process, which may take a couple weeks to months. There are some matches that are incompatible just based on personality, but you cannot predict that until you try… and again, trying needs to occur between two fixed rabbits. Intact rabbits are hormonal and thus relationships are not stable.

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[Plumped Cuddly Bunnies]

I’ll just go with my new plan. Its a real shame because if the two does were spayed they would be a bonded pair and they’d be able to live together. I will have to search deeper, maybe see if I could visit some shelters and do some asking about on spaying and neutering.

I saw one vet yesterday who is listed as a rabbit savvy vet, when I got there and asked how much they charge for a rabbit neuter the lady behind the desk said “We don’t normally get that many rabbits in”. She then went to check with the vet to see how much it was and they came back and said the the neuter will cost the same as a dog neuter and a high risk operation… I don’t think I’ll be bringing my bunnies to that vet. I’m out of options now so I’m giving up on the spaying and neutering. I will have to wait in hope that a charity vet starts treating rabbits again which may never happen. I just have to work with what I have for now and make the best of it.

[Plumped Cuddly Bunnies]

I wonder if a neutered male can be bonded with an unspayed female. If I eventually find a rabbit savvy fair priced vet to neuter my male bunny I could eventually bond him with the two does. Just a thought.

[DanaNM]

So, to reiterate and clarify, for the best chance of a stable, lasting bond, all rabbits involved should be spayed and neutered. For female rabbits, spaying is important for health reasons as well, because they have high rates of uterine cancer (some estimates put this at around 75% by age 4, and unspayed females generally have a life expectancy of around 6 or 7, as opposed to 9-12).

It used to be very difficult to find vets that would spay females, and so in some cases people had success bonding a single neutered male with a single un-spayed female. But again, this would only be with one female… and is likely to be a less stable bond, and a group would not work. Even the presence of another un-spayed female in the area could also upset things. It would depend a lot more on the personalities of the rabbits, and often in these bonds the male will mount excessively which causes a lot of stress and false pregnancies for the females.

I agree that if the vet is not experienced with rabbits, I would not go with that vet. Spaying tends to be more expensive than neutering because the procedure takes longer, and most of the cost tends to be for the time under anesthesia. On tip when searching for vets is to look for “exotics” vets. You may need to drive a bit to find one. I agree it may be easier to get the male neutered first for multiple reasons. Given his behavior and the fact that more vets do neuters than spays, that would probably be my priority.

 

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Plumped Cuddly Bunnies]

The male bunny isn’t so bad now. I still have to be careful around him. I’m able to pet him but I can’t sit down with he is in the room because he is very quick on his feet and I never know if his coming to lunge and bite me. His on edge a lot of the time but at the same time he is very playful. When I clean his sleeping area or his litter tray that is when he tries to bite and attack the most When he is in the house its not so bad I just have to stand around sometimes I might sit on the floor with him but if I sit on the couch he will come at me.

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