I think I’m going to lose my mind

[Battie]

This might just be a vent post… I don’t know what more I can do but I’m just so frustrated I need an outlet with my fellow bunny parents.

I feel like Beulah and Quincy are never going to bond.  Things just… don’t change.  I’m still trying them in the bathtub.  I even try banana on the head to get them to lick each other, but all I have now are two crusty heads.  They are mostly civil and don’t fight in the tub, but if Quincy doesn’t like where Beulah is sitting or if she gets too close he’ll nip her and then she just shuts him out.  Quincy really confuses me because he does things that seem outright friendly, but then he gets all bitey (then again, he can be the same way with me).  I know I should try a car ride but I hate asking someone to go through this with me.

I can’t relax for a second during playtime. I left the room unsupervised just to use the flipping bathroom just now, and I came back to find that Beulah has ANOTHER nick on her ear, this one over a quarter-inch deep.  (It’s not bleeding much now, so I’m agonizing over whether to eat a couple hundred dollars in emergency vet bills or not.)  How are they ever going to get along when he’s like this?

All I can do is stress about this.  I feel terrible because when I got Quincy I was not half as busy as I am now.  I really hoped Beulah could be a companion for him on those lonely evenings when I’m away.  And right now they don’t get nearly enough playtime because each has to be out in my tiny tiny studio seperately and I have to be able to give undivided attention.  Beulah is stuck in a cage that is too small because I truly have no room to build a bigger second cage.  They’re restlessness makes them noisy at night and early in the morning, so I’m not getting nearly enough sleep.  Oh, and it’s the pee wars phase!

I remember that when I adopted Beulah they told me that they if I have troubles they can take the two and bond them.  If it’s been two, maybe three months, is it too late for that?  If they’ll do it for me, I can purge my place of all bunny scent so it might be like starting on neutral ground for them.

I figured the people at the shelter were referring to might be the VA/DC/MD HRS chapter, since their site mentions bonding new pairs, and I emailed the contact hoping they’d hear my plea.  I didn’t get a response and so called them, only to find that the number is disconnected!

I don’t know… I just feel like a terrible bunny mother and I should have known I was getting in over my head.  My greatest fears are moving in the spring without them bonded (because boy would I like to be able to sleep in a different room) and trying to convince a landlord to let me take them, or that I’ll be sent on travel and have to board them in lieu of a rabbit sitter.  Since the kennel makes me take my own cage and supplies, I can’t imagine trying to juggle two of them!

I need some hope. 🙁

 

Edit:  My dear boyfriend is actually willing to do the car ride thing… dunno if it will help but we can see.

[jerseygirl]

Bonding can be STRESSFUL and it is a headache having them separate and dealing with the messes. Truly! But it does get better. If your are feeling overwhelmed, maybe do look at bonding them thru one of the services. It might be just the thing – taking Quincey completly out of his environment. I don’t think it’s too late to utilise one of these services.

[Battie]

Thank you for the encouragement. I’ll try calling the shelter tomorrow to see if they can refer me to someone. I actually swung by there today on my way home for work, only to find that they’re closed on Wednesdays!

Beulah’s ear looks like it’s no worse than the last one nip, which healed fine, though she might have a little triangle of fur missing on the tip of her ear now. I’ll keep cleaning and watch it carefully for trouble. It’s just sad to see my baby bleeding, and my other baby causing the bleeding!

[jerseygirl]

It’s just sad to see my baby bleeding, and my other baby causing the bleeding!

See, that’s the trouble isn’t it?  We’re too emotionally involved! And our fear projects and can make things even trickier. Not to say you can’t bond them – if the bf is willing to help out, go for it. It just is good to have that option of a bonding service around.

[MimzMum]

Just a quick note here; I have three bunnies who all live in separate pens but in the same room. I’ve had them all over a year and-due to an illness with one-had to stop bonding two of them and they haven’t been in the same space since. However, they all seem to realize each other is there and I think they are happy with their current living arrangements.
I do hope you can find some assistance in bonding your bunnies, but just on the off chance they don’t bond, do you have space enough to allow them to live together without physically being in the same spot? They will still have each other’s company, but will not be within ‘nipping range’ of each other.

My sincerest bonding and happy ending wishes for you and your furbabies! I agree that sometimes it’s more successful as someone else’s job and local rescues ‘professional’ bonders can be champion at this sort of thing.

[Deleted User]

hi Battie! I was wondering how things were going for you.

There are bonding situations where literally you can’t take your eyes off for a second without them drawing blood.

Instead of the rabbits stressing YOU out, you should be the one wearing THEM out. Right now, your goal should just be to call a truce.

By wearing them out I mean not letting them get away with a single bad move toward one another. You will need to set up a pen, or sit on your bathroom floor with them (bring a book or something entertaining) and have a spray bottle loaded and ready, and a plastic bag with empty cans to shake at them or touch them with if they act up. No litterboxes in the beginning, just hay will do for munching, preferrably two piles. Whenever they get close and want to fight, squirt them with the water on the forehead. You have to really hit them with it but never in the ear or eye. They will clue in that you’re not going to allow the aggression and likely they will freeze up or pout. End the sessions after like 25 minutes even if nothing dramatic occurred. On the car rides have them beside one another in a box pushing down their heads so they cannot nip. After a number of these sessions, you should notice that they avoid another more than wanting to fight. They may still be hostile and ocassionally try to fight but the more you stop them the less they will do it. The repetitions of the negative consequence for their agression will sink into their little stubborn heads.
You cannot let any more injuries happen becuse they put you on a vicious cycle: each time one gets hurt, there is the urge to retaliate and it goes on and on. Right now your rabbits hold a grudge. A grudge trumps territorial disputes, it is very strong anti-bonding energy. It will take determination and patience to break this but you can do it. When you squirt them because they go for an attack, make a noise that they will associate the being squirted with, like a scream. You can use positive gestures toward them also, box them like for a carride and just keep their heads down talking calmly and stroking lots in a scent transfer session. They might jerk about a couple of times but they will stop if you keep the upper hand (with protective glove btw).
Another thing I always ffelt was imperative for my own sessions — don’t hold a session if you’re on edge, too tired or frustrated. You need to have a positive spirit in the face of the hostilities…. .
Keep posting please. Can you make a video? (you would need an assistant to tape the session as your hands will be busy)

 

 

[missSarah]

Don’t give up! It took a little longer than 6 months to bond my two rabbits. Car rides are an absolute must. My girl bunny wouldn’t let the boy next to her for anything but in the car they snuggled up and looked like they were madly in love. The real breakthrough came when I went out of the country to study in Mexico for 5 weeks. It seemed that the real problem was me! It took her only 2 weeks to take to the new rabbit and now they’re inseparable. I would try letting your boyfriend supervise them together while you are at work or out shopping.

Also short intervals are key… hold your hand over their eyes and sit them together and pet them for just 5 minutes. Then put them both in their separate cages. This allows you to keep your stress level low and the buns don’t have time to get up the guts to battle. Also they get some loving which eventually they’ll associate with the smell of the other bunny. Hopefully nothing eventful happens and you can stretch it to 10 minutes. Eventually you can separate them but not put them in their cages and just slowly stop petting. I wouldn’t leave them close enough to touch when you stop petting or they’ll get a nasty shock when they open their eyes lol.

[Jenna, Chubs & Comet]

I completely understand your frustration! My situation is taking longer then I wanted too and it’s so annoying having to clean up the poop wars and pee wars and worry that they aren’t getting enough run time because you have to keep them separate. I was feeling this way a week ago but am feeling more positive now, just keep working on it!! ((((vibes)))))

[Battie]

Thank you again for the encouragement! I’m glad to hear it’s not hopeless (and I’m sorry for those of you who are having a tough time with it too!).

I will try to take a video or stills as we go. Thankfully, I might actually be in that avoiding phase you mentioned, Petzy, with the tub. They only squabble when they’re too close, and Quincy is always the instigator. Which is interesting, because he’s also the one who seems to make the friendlier gestures at other times. He’ll flop in front of her in the tub or against her cage, and not in a way that makes me think it’s the I’m-more-relaxed-than-you game the Lapine Language page talks about. If he could be less boorish at other times Beulah might warm up more. She’s a very outgoing bunny and she only shuts down in front of him when he gets like that.

We’re going to try to work in a car ride this weekend, but I’m also trying to find out about bonding services. You all have made me feel better about doing this, but outside help would still make life easier. 🙂

[Battie]

They did one of those encouragingly cute things again. He flopped up against Beulah’s cage, so she stretched out perpendicular to him with her head almost touching his through the bars. That’s friendly, right? I wanted to get a picture but when I tried to get my camera Quincy ran to see what I was doing. But a little while later he did it again. This time Beulah stretched out with her head at his tail. Is that also good?

[Battie]

I got a plastic bin big enough for two bunnies. My boyfriend and I put them both in there (boy was that a lot harder than expected!) with the intention of driving them around the parkway. Quincy was a bully for a few minutes, biting Beulah’s tummy and haunches, but a few squirts of water made him settle down. We noticed that for now just carrying the box around was enough, so we took them to the laundry room and sat them on a running washer. They had to sit touching each other because of the tight space but otherwise kind of ignored each other. Quincy would lean in to bite Beulah everynow and then, but we’d make a noise or shake the water bottle and he’d change his mind.

If I can manage getting them in the bin by myself I think I like this better than using the tub. The smaller space forces physical contact and it’s a lot more comfortable for me since my bathroom is more like a closet. I still want to call the HRS about bonding services (the shelter gave me another number to try), but if that doesn’t work out I feel positive about the box.

[Battie]

Now that the busy holidays are over, I’m trying to get back into a more involved bonding routine, starting with daily box sessions. Quincy is still the bully. I really think they’d be okay if he could stop nipping whenever he doesn’t get what he wants. I leave them in the box for about 20 minutes. If they’re calm, I give them pellets to eat together, and if Quincy gets nippy I shake the box gently or spray him with water, whichever is quicker.

Since I can’t introduce a permanent new territory in my little place I was wondering if it would be effective to switch their cages daily, or if that would just make them both more territorial. They’d have all each other’s stuff, except they’d have to keep their own litterboxes because if Quincy doesn’t use his high-backed one he pees over the edge. 😀 Quincy definitely has an issue with Beulah near his cage. Beulah doesn’t care if he goes near hers, but both of them encroach on each other’s territory by pooping and, sometimes, peeing around it.

I’m really desperate to get them together over the next month or two. My lease is up in May and I want to move out of this shoebox, and I’m worried about convincing a new landlord to let me have them. Bonded bunnies in one cage would be a much easier sell, I think.

[Deleted User]

Posted By Battie on 01/09/2010 12:59 PM
. 😀 Quincy definitely has an issue with Beulah near his cage. Beulah doesn’t care if he goes near hers, but both of them encroach on each other’s territory by pooping and, sometimes, peeing around it.

I’m really desperate to get them together over the next month or two. My lease is up in May and I want to move out of this shoebox, and I’m worried about convincing a new landlord to let me have them. Bonded bunnies in one cage would be a much easier sell, I think.

 

Battie, bonding where a bully is involved is really hard in a small space. You may have better success by not putting these two in one cage together until all nipping has ceased.. What I mean is that with a bullying bunny you need to give enough space that the other bun can get out of the bully’s face. They can already move in together but the habitat must allow for get-away space. If you could set them up in a small room in your new place you shouldn’t have much trouble. Over time the bullying will stop during their cementing phase. — When you say “cage” how big are we talking?

[Battie]

Oh, I didn’t mean putting them in one cage now! Just way down the line, when I’m confident the bullying has stopped and they’re friends.

Right now I just want to swap cages between them to try to cut down on the territory issues. Quincy has a big three-story NIC cage and Beulah has a smaller kennel cage, which was only intended to be a temporary home.

The only time I ever let them be together right now is when stress bonding in the box. I would let them run together so Beulah could get away, but my first attempt was a disaster because, since I have only one room, the run space is right in their territories.

[Deleted User]

That sounds like a good plan/set-up. I will wait for you to post soon “Quincy and Beulah are b o n d e d”! it will be epic.

[RabbitPam]

I’m sorry I can’t advise you on cage swapping, though I would be a bit hesitant since Quincy might not see going into a cramped cage after his big condo as a good thing.

I can advise you on the landlord situation. As an apartment renter for many years now – and 10 of them with a bunny – I can suggest that you let any prospective landlord know that you have two bunnies in two cages. Add that bunnies make no noise at all, and since they are caged they are very clean and make great pets. I have had all my landlords accept a caged bunny readily, and most put the bunny into the lease with no pet fee. It’s the quiet and cage part that sells them. You needn’t mention their exercise Out time. If they ask, you just tell them you let them run around supervised while you are home.

[Deleted User]

Battie, I wouldn’t swap cages as I do not believe it will make a difference in their relationship at this point. If you can’t do sessions in big neutral territory until you move, you could put them into a small open box together once a day to keep their familiarity strong. They wouldn’t have to stay in the box for very long, 15 minutes is plenty. No need for stressors eiither at this point, just keep them from nipping by stroking them lots.

[Battie]

Okay, no swapping.

Thank you again for the encouragement. I hope I can do this! Their lives (and mine) will be so much better when they are friends.

Also, I know I’ve been complaining about Quincy’s behavior a lot, so I wanted to say on his behalf that while he’s a little socially maladjusted, he really is a sweet bunny deep inside and I love him just as much as Beulah. <3

[Deleted User]

Quincy! — I did the same thing to Lint during bonding, made him out to be the bad guy… even though he was a sweet bun in reality.

Battie, you will have to post lots of pictures of your pair at some point to make it up to Quincy!

[Battie]

Oh, I know… I need to replace my camera batteries and get some new pictures. I don’t think I have any non-blurry-cell-phone pics of Beulah at all yet.

Speaking of which, I think I’ve mentioned that Beulah has one pointy ear and one lop ear. It’s adorable, but do you think it’s possible that it creates kind of a “speech” impediment for her? I know rabbits can express disapproval with one ear up and one down. Since I know her ears are always that way, I can tell when she’s truly annoyed, but maybe Quincy thinks she’s always being rude?

[Deleted User]

I would imagine rabbits are more receptive to the finer nuances of communication, like subtle scents and vibes from other rabbits, not just ears… My guess is Quincy understands her fine.. I might be wrong….

[Battie]

Cool, I hope that is the case!

After a few more sessions with the box I realized it was stressing them out more than I wanted. I decided to try a free run again, ready to seperate if it got ugly.

But instead of another knock-down-drag-out fight Quincy settled for a chase. Not a *nice* chase, but it was still better. Beulah bolted back into her cage after a few laps and before I could shut the door Quincy followed. Surprisingly, it was civil. Beulah didn’t attack him and allowed him to check things out. They’d sniff each other or touch noses. Quincy got a little nippy, but since it wasn’t ugly and since Beulah could run I watched to see what he wanted. I think at one point he might have been trying to mount, but Beulah spurned him. 😛

We still have a long way to go, but I think it is looking hopeful. I’ll keep using the box but less frequently to keep them from freaking out. I hope the run space will let them work things out better.

[Battie]

Something new!

Quincy mounted Beulah, and she let him–more than once. She’d only get mad if he started biting. This is usually a good thing, right?

Otherwise they’re mostly just playing chase still. I can’t tell if it’s play yet, but I haven’t seen much fur drop tonight and Beulah seems to be seeking out high obstacles to sail over while she runs from him.

[Author]

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