Housing Buns

[AlexT]

Well, we’re gradually making strides in litter training Benjamin and Maggie, our two dwarfs.  But I’m still looking for a good housing solution for them.  Right now they’re in a 36×24 "bunny pen" from KW cages; it’s good in that it has an open top and solid, enclosed bottom.  It’s just not large enough.  So I’m trying to figure out where would be the best place and what kind of housing to get for them.  Here are the options I’ve been considering:

X-Pen over vinyl : All the ones I’ve seen have 1 1/2 inch spacing on the bars.  I’m worried about Benjamin getting his head caught in there.  He’s a Netherland and only weighs 2 lbs.  Maggie is a bit larger, and I’m not as worried about her.

Laundry Room : Vinyl floors, and connects via the kitchen to our living room.  But what about noise from the washer/dryer?

Bathroom : We’re in a two bedroom apartment, and have a tiny bath attached to the master bedroom and a larger one off a hall.  (It’s sort of a roommate design.)  We don’t want the buns near the bedroom (I’m a really light sleeper already), so the larger one is the only option; but it’s the one my wife uses every day.

Dog Crate : A bit more containment in terms of the lip on the pan, but the question remains about the bar spacing.  If it’s not dangerous, this might be ideal.

NIC Condo : I’ve built three of these for the buns over the years and none of them have done well.  The buns have just peed all over it.  I know these are the going idea right now, but without solid litterbox habits, it’s a no-go.

Our apartment layout sucks.  We can’t leave the buns in the living room because they tend to go behind the sofa and pee.  Right now they’re in the office, which means that I keep a close eye on them during run time to keep them away from computer cords.  It’s also carpeted, and I don’t want another room that has torn carpet in it.  The kitchen doubles as a bowling alley and is barely wide enough to open the dishwasher.  There isn’t a hallway except for the one that leads to the front door, and I’m worried about maintenance folks being in and out when we’re not home.

I’m really confused about what to do.  Does anyone have any advice? 

[osprey]

You might be able to line the inside of a dog crate with hardware cloth (wire squares basically) or clear acrylic plastic if you are worried about buns escaping.  We had a foster who was a baby dwarf, and she squeezed out of a dog pen with no trouble.  I will say that dog pens are a bit of a pain to deal with, because there is no top access you have to crawl in to get stuff out of them.  With my bad back, crawling into a pen is a pain in the, well, just about everything

Have you considered NIC cube housing?  Your buns should not be able to squeeze through the 1 1/2 inch openings, and they are very flexible.  If you like the open top of an XPen set up, you can even make a pen like that with NIC cubes.  You can also use NIC cubes to add shelves to a dog pen, and use some of the vertical space that way.

 

[JK]

I say use the 2nd bedroom. I’m not sure what you mean by your wife using it every day. Is that a problem? I’d use the cage and leave it open and then attach an xpen to it so they have a nice big area. If you have carpet in there you can put some linoleum on top of the carpet. If you are really worried about a head poking through you could probably put hard plastic like someone here uses from a sign company that could be cut and attached part way up the xpen. I’d put a litter box in the cage and also the xpen until they are trained. A dog crate does not sound good to me. The laundry room could be a problem with noise and even smells. Good luck!

[AlexT]

I should clarify: the larger bathroom is the one my wife uses everyday. The smaller one is the one connected to our bedroom. Anyway, both bathrooms get used every day for showers etc.

Alex

[JK]

Sorry I thought you were referring to the 2nd bedroom not bathroom.  Can you put the buns in the 2nd bedroom?

[AlexT]

Actually, they currently are in the 2nd bedroom / office.  That’s where their cage is.  Problem is, it’s carpeted and has a good bit of wiring.  While they have never shown much interest in wires, I just don’t trust them enough to let them have run of the room all the time.  So if they stay in there, it still means coming up with an enclosure for them while I’m at school and my wife is at work.

 

Posted By knowltons4 on 01/29/2008 7:20 PM

Sorry I thought you were referring to the 2nd bedroom not bathroom.  Can you put the buns in the 2nd bedroom?

 

[JK]

Well mine is in my office too. If you put an xpen in there it will confine them a bit. It works perfectly for me because I too have computer wires etc but Edson doesn’t chew them. Then when you are in there you can supervise. The beauty of an xpen is that it can be folded up and put away if you want and you can make any arrangement with the panels to conform to your space.

[MooBunnay]

I agree that the ex-pen is one of my favorite choices for you if the NIC cubes aren’t going so well. If you are concerned about the width of the bars, can you zip tie some NIC cubes around the bottom of the ex-pen so that the buns can’t get their heads through? Or use some of Osprey’s suggestions like hardware cloth or clear plastic for the bottom foot or so of the expen?

[Gravehearted]

well, I’m not a fan of putting bunnies in a place where they feel removed from the family or are less likely to be around you all the time.

What are you using for floors in your NIC cage? The floors in mine are coroplast – just a spritz of vinegar / water and it pee cleans up very easily, with no damage. I also have a office chair mat under it to also protect the carpet.

We also have used x-pens to section off things – like all our electronics in the living room are behind one, same with the bookshelves. That may be an option for you too.

The bigger issue is what’s going on with the litterbox training? It seems like if that would improve you’d have a lot more options. I’m assuming they’re spayed / neutered already. Are there other rabbits in the house that are making them worse about it?

[AlexT]

When I built NIC Condos, I tried just about every type of flooring you can imagine: wainscotting covered in carpet, coroplast, tileboard… We’re talking copious quantities of pee, and none of it worked. My wife and I were talking earlier, and she remembered that the rescue group mentioned when we adopted Benji that he had been housed in a birdcage (one of the little ones). I’m getting to the point where I’m not sure that he even can be fully litterbox trained, if he just got so accustomed to being in a dirty environment when he was growing up that it doesn’t really bother him anymore. (And I don’t think it does; he’ll pee and then sit right down on top of it, even if he had to hop over to the corner to do it.) Fortunately, he’s gotten pretty good about not peeing when he’s out in the room, but definitely not 100%. Maggie was born at the HRS shelter, and she’s much better about the box both in and out of the cage. It may be that, in this case, ease of cleaning and maintaining as dry an environment as possible is the best we can go for.

[BinkyBunny]

You can get some mesh or chicken wire and wrap it/attach it tightly around the xpen so that they the little one can’t squeeze his head through.

OR you try and custom build your own.   See what we did below, of course you don’t have to make it that big, but that fencing is actually metal shelving that we turned vertical and attached to wood.

 

[JK]

Binky I love your set up! You even have a carved wooden bunny at the corner? Way too cool. The pee thing with rabbits can be a bit much, huh! Poor Benji. A bird cage? OMG how sick. I wouldn’t feel hopeless about training him. If you just keep the space as big as an xpen for now and put a couple litter boxes in there and watch him like a hawk for a few days it might work. Every time he goes to lift that tail stick him in the box and maybe reward him with a sprig of parsley or mint. I think you just have to really hunker down and devote a certain amount of time to this. Maybe you have. Do you have pics of the little guys you can post and perhaps the areas you are thinking about? The office is great because for me I spend so much time in there (on this dang site continuously!!!). The floooring you have used – don’t see good ole linoleum? I actually have in the xpen: linoleum, then a blue tarp (like for camping) and then a sheet over all because I was having issues with my dear boy peeing in his sleep!! It’s so easy to clean up. Without the tarp the pee was actually creeping underneath the linoleum. Talk about driving me crazy! I know you can solve this – just keep talking to us!!!!

[Beka27]

i think BinkyBUnny’s idea of the closet shelving might work.  i’m familiar with that stuff, the spacing is very small and it’s not super expensive.  you’d have to probably get creative with it and build a base for it.

[babybunsmum]

i feel you pain about cleaning up pee everywhere.  i’d still throw a vote in for NIC cubes & sign board.  i’ve managed quite well with my set up dispite the fact that baby bun thinks she can pee everywhere in it.  she was originally used to a wired bottom litter & i’m still working on getting her to use a litter with yesterdays news. 

anyways… i made a box with 6" high sides for the bottom level with litter & hay, and cut sheets with lips (pee guards) for the other levels.  its a bit of a funky design because i wanted the litter level to be small (easy to pick up, dump & clean) but give her a larger level to hang out in.   i can access the larger level thru 2 panels that open to wipe up mis-placed pee & spray off, or take the whole sheet out to rinse off in the tub.  the lips are near the back so dribbles can’t run in behind.  the whole enclosure is on a plastic sheet so it’s easy to wipe up any spills and so i can slide the whole thing away from the wall for cleaning.

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[KatnipCrzy]

I have my bunny is a SuperPet cage- that has legs and wheels, wired bottom, etc.  To add more room to her area- I am planning on builing a ramp for her to get in and out of cage.  Laying plastic on the floor (the thick stuff you can buy off a bulk roll at Jo-ann Fabrics (I have used this under cat litterboxes for years- it is nice because it is cheap and easy to cut to fit).   And then making a NIC pen all the way around her cage.  The is nothing plugged in by her cage- so no cords or other hazards.  I will have space to give her play tunnels, etc.  And to make 100% sure she can’t get to the woodwork on wall- I will make sure to NIC across back wall and that she can not reach it.

She won’t be able to be in pen when I am not home- but I work from home.  We have other pets and while they are good with her- I would feel better is she was confined.  My dogs are crated when we are gone too (2 young Australian Shepherds)- but the cats are free run of house.  One cat was already been jealous of Cotton’s cardboard box in her cage- and the cat climbed in the cage to lay in the box.  Poor Cotton is used to the cats- but she look confused as to why the cat was IN her cage.

When I am on the computer- I lay a towel on the desk (just in case) and Cotton will lay on the desk and let me pet and massage her for long periods of time.  I am also still working on the house training thing with her.  But the pen I described making will protect the carpet and is simple to make- and remodel as needed.  (I do plan on giving other things for her to walk on above the plastic).

Julie

 

[AlexT]

I was going back over the pics of the buns over the years, many of which were taken of them in and around their cage/condos.  I realized I’ve tried more types of flooring than I thought: coroplast, vinyl, the works.  None of it seems to have held up very well.  Anyway, enough of that.

This may be steering in a slightly different direction, but I’ve been wondering about a cage on legs, so that it’s off the ground.  The reason I’m thinking about this is that my wife and I found out on New Year’s Day that we’re expecting.  Whatever we get in terms of housing for the buns, I’m planning on keeping it for a long time, possibly even for future generations of adopted bunnies (may God grant that the day be far off!).  Something my wife said the other night got me thinking about a toddler in a few years around the buns and whether an elevated setup would be better for all parties involved for moderating interactions.  (It would also solve some of our immediate storage problems in our apartment, since hay and stuff could go underneath.)  I’ve located a really good looking cage (48"l x 24"w x 24"h) that has optional legs on a website.  The price is very reasonable, and it has the plus that all profits go to the Tampa Bay HRS (I think the maker is a member).  It has wire flooring, but I have lots of bunny towels, mats, and such to put over it.

Anyway, this brings me to my question.  What are the pluses and minuses of an elevated cage?

Oh, and since someone had asked for a pic of Benji and Maggie, I’ve attached an older one.  More to come! 

Alex

 

Edit: I’ll post more pics to the Lounge.

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[JK]

Mmmm I know the cage type you mean. I almost bought one but decided against it because my intent was to leave the door open to a bigger area. I understand your dilemma. Congrats on the baby by the way! You won’t have to worry about he/she getting into mischief for a couple of years at least!!! Were you planning on letting the buns out of this cage? If so, you’ll need a ramp and then that could present a few problems with a crawling baby. It doesn’t sound big enough to me for 2. I have the same size and by the time you get the hay rack, litter box, bedding in there there’s not much room. It’s no problem because I have the xpen attached. My personal opinion on kids is that you teach them early on what is not to be touched i.e fireplace or rabbit pen. I can also envision a toddler reaching up to the cage and holding on and then it toppling over or even wheeling it around!!!! I know I’m not helping here. Just things to think about. Discipline is the key with anything though so if you decide on the "wheelie" go for it as long as the little guys get out of there for some exercise.

Oh and your buns are soooo cute!  Rabbits that is…

[AlexT]

Yeah, I had thought about the dangers of a munchkin tipping the cage over.  That would be, in a word, bad.

The lack of litterbox skills is starting to be an issue in finding a good housing solution, especially coupled with our lack of real estate in the apartment.  Unfortunately, I’m not sure how much better things will be when we move this summer.    While Maggie is pretty good now with a box (ironically when it’s distinguished from eating, hence the hay in a rack away from the box), the vet thinks Benji may be covering up some form of mild renal failure by excessive drinking.  He pees everywhere, from the middle of the cage to all the corners.  So that’s one issue, obviously.  I spend about 30 minutes every day doing a complete cleaning of the cage to keep it from smelling.  Also, I’m afraid I might need some kind of complete, rigid enclosure for the buns (as opposed to an x-pen) to get them by parsonage committees, to guarantee they won’t "escape" and wreck havoc on church property.  Anyway, here’s the current setup.  Sorry for the grainy quality of the photos, but my wife has the camera with her; these are from my cell phone.

Alex

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[JK]

I can’t tell from this picture, how big is this cage? Also, I’m curious about how much water Benji drinks because Edson drinks tons – 48 oz or more in 24 hrs. I spent hundreds of dollars at the vet and they have no real solution. Could be diabetes insipidus (no cure) or even behavioral from not getting enough water in the past (prior to me getting him). Edson during a 2 week span would pee in his sleep. That has stopped now but the pee thing drove me crazy so I totally understand how awful it is for you. So how much does Bengi drink???

[AlexT]

The cage is 36×24, 30″ tall. Nothing has come back indicating diabetes, and the vet doesn’t think it’s insipidus. Benji doesn’t drink nearly as much as your bun does. It’s hard to tell, because both of them drink from the same bottle, but together they drink about 6 oz a day. Benji’s the one I see drink the most, but that is, of course, non-scientific measurement.

Alex

[JK]

Ok I just saw how big your cage is. 24 x 36. Do you have another 1-2 feet to spare lengthwise? The more I think about it the more I think Binky Bunny’s set up could work with the metal shelving. It’s very attractive and very easy to build (I think!). You could still put some good thicker quality linoleum under and you would have enough room for 2 litter boxes to help with the pee problem. That cheap roll up linoleum I bought is not great as it has a paper backing! How stupid is that? I would think you could go to a real flooring store and get a remnant that is much more substantial. What about shelves above for storage? That way the munchkin wouldn’t get into the hay!

[JK]

6 oz is totally normal then. Not sure why your vet thinks there’s a problem. Maybe he’s just a little “slow” when it come to potty training! Wait till you potty train a kid! Way worse…

[AlexT]

The vet and I are a bit concerned that Benjamin’s urine tends to be very watery. It’s almost clear, does not oxidize on contact with the air, and there’s an awful lot of it. This is especially true compared to Maggie. I’m kind of thinking that I’m going to go with about 48″ long on the cage/enclosure (whatever it ends up being) and make sure it has a shelf in it to add a bit of living area. One that caught my eye today is the Bunny Abode Apartment from Leith Petwerks. 48×23, with a “sit-in-pan” construction. Worth bookmarking, at the least.

Alex

[JK]

Same with Edson’s. So watery a urinalysis showed nothing. I have to dump his litter box daily because of the volume of pee. That cage sounds perfect. I have heard they are great, a bit expensive but worth it! Is this the double decker one? I know some people here use them so hopefully they can give you the low down.

[AlexT]

The Apartment model is a single-story design; the Condo is their multi-floor model. The apartment is simlar in some ways to what we have now, but larger. The base is a 3″ tall galvanized pan and the cage sits inside the rim, connected by finger hooks. The lid is made of wood. The only thing is that, because it’s not a totally rigid design, you can’t put anything on top of it and (I would guess) you shouldn’t put a shelf in it. Still, at $100 the price isn’t bad for what you get.

http://leithpetwerks.com/prodpage.cfm?prod_code=BA700&allpics=1

As an aside, Benji just spent three straight minutes drinking from their bottle. That just can’t be normal.

Alex

[BinkyBunny]

So are you getting the apartment model or the condo? IF you are getting the apartment model, in my opinion it seems a bit small for two bunnies – unless they get tons of freedom and this is just their resting home base. Even they mention that "You might also consider this as a travel home for your pet when you can’t take a larger Bunny Abode Condo with you." So basically recommending this as a temporary housing too.

EDITED:  I forgot to answer about having a cage or pen up higher. Would they be able to get in and out by themselves?  IF you have to pick them up to put them back in and out, this could make their litterbox habits worsen as many bunnies become insecure and feel threatened since you are reaching into their cage so they will mark even more in hopes you will get the message to stop "messin" with their territory.   They also have to feel comfortable enough that they can get back into it quickly if need be, otherwise they may pee outside of the pen, and you’d be forced to have a litterbox outside of the pen, not something you’d want a child to get into of course. Blech. OH! and I almost forgot, CONGRATS on the new human!

Regarding the water intake.  How long have you had these bunnies and where did you get them from?  Have they had a sorted past?

 

[AlexT]

Again, I can’t get the condo because Benji is not littertrained. They say specifically on their website that the condo floor is not designed for long-term contact with liquid. And before anybody else says, “Why don’t you just littertrain him?” I’ve been trying now for 4 1/2 years. There is no rhyme or reason to his habits. The vet has even suggested that we should get a wire-bottom cage in case it is a mild case of renal failure, the idea being that at least their towels would dry more quickly with air circulating underneath. As it is, he’s constantly sitting in urine even if I change their bedding daily, to the point that he’s had a mild case of sore hocks (no open sores, but the little calluses look a bit inflamed). In the past two hours, he’s been to the water bottle 7 times for at least a minute each time, several times for much longer. (I’m sorry if I sound a bit angry, but I seem to get similar responses all the time about how bunnies are “easily litter-trained.” As you can imagine, it gets incredibly frustrating after a while.)

My great fear is that this is my fault. As I’ve mentioned elsewhere, a few months after we adopted Benji I started reading about the reduced pellet diet. He was getting 1/2 cup of LabDiet a day at the time, and was doing well, with maybe a slight ounce or two more than ideal weight. But in accordance with the prevailing wisdom I started tapering him off down to 1/8 of a cup a day. Only I went too quickly and made the move over just about 2 weeks. He started eating lots of hay, but after a few weeks we noticed that his water intake had gradually crept up to 8 oz in a morning (for a 2 lb bun). It took another few weeks for us to figure out why. We immediately cranked up the pellets, and within days his water was back to normal. But I’m afraid that something happened to his kidneys during the month or so that he was drinking tons of water. I know intellectually that it’s not my fault – I was trying to do what was best for him according to what I knew from reading extensively on the HRS sites and in light of the fact that the vet had said he could stand to shed a few ounces. Intellectually I know it’s true, but every time he goes to the bottle for minutes at the time my heart breaks. But now it’s done, and I have to deal with the fact that he may never be litterbox trained because of it. No one has been able to say whether there actually is any connection, but when everything else comes back normal from tests… So far this evening, since I cleaned the cage out at 5:00, he’s peed at least four times in various places around the cage – once in front of the box, once in each of the right-hand corners, and once in the middle of the floor, not counting the two times I’ve caught him fast enough and put him in the box. Again, this has little to do with the size of the cage; he did this when I had them in an NIC condo that was three stories tall and 42×42.

So, long and short, I’m not sure where else to look for something relatively large for a rabbit who may not be litter-trainable. We simply don’t know whether he can be trained or not, but a long-running effort has not succeeded. He pees often, sometimes even on us. The problem is that everything I’ve found for buns who may not be so good with their litterbox (e.g., wire floors or lapped sit-in-pan designs) is 48×24 or smaller. If anyone has found anything larger, I’d love to know.

Sorry for the length and the tone of this post. I’m feeling incredibly frustrated with the whole situation tonight, and perhaps a bit guilty as well. We just need some form of housing for them that can meet a complicated set of needs.

Alex

[AlexT]

Benjamin and Maggie were both HRS adoptions. Benjamin was seized as part of a huge hoarding case in Clayton Co., Ga. He had been housed in a birdcage (the small kind for budgies, etc.) and had been fed a diet of hotdogs. We adopted him when he was about a year old. Maggie was born at the HRS shelter (her mother was seized along with Benji). We adopted her about 4 months after Benji, when she was about 6 months old. So yeah, Benji in particular led a rough life, especially early on. I guess he was seized when he was about 10 or 11 months old; he had not been at the HRS for that long when we adopted him, maybe 2 months – just long enough to be neutered, etc.  The woman they were taken from was probably breeding them for show or something (Benji has a tatoo in his ear), but had almost certainly inbred them quite a bit.  I think she had 80 rabbits and numerous guinea pigs.  Possibly as a result of the inbreeding, they’re a bit higher-strung and more neurotic than usual, even for dwarf buns.

Alex

[BB Administrator]

(THIS IS BINKYBUNNY – JUST IN ADMIN MODE WORKING ON THE SITE)

Alex – absolutely no need to apologize, I completely understand your frustration.  I am sorry that nothing so far has been helping, and that I had a negative opinion about your glimmer of hope (the apartment cage)  I can imagine that would just be highly irritating after all you’ve been through.

And please don’t feel guilty, you certainly have done nothing wrong and have only been looking for answers with expert groups like HRS. 

I can’t imagine why  reducing pellets and  increasing hay would be related to renal failure, however, what I would be more apt to believe is that the diet he was given before, with way too much protein (hotdogs) would be more likely to cause this.  I know he has been in your care for many years.  I will need to research more and talk to a vet, but I am wondering if his original diet caused damage that will only show really show up later in life, or if his body became accustom somehow to high protein, (even though rabbits really aren’t suited to deal with such high protein) and then a diet change to less protein would have caused problems.  

Have you talked to your vet about his past?  His hotdog diet?  This might help shed some light to a rabbit savvy vet.

There are also emotional reason why a bunny drinks more water too.  A bunny who has had a past where clean water or any water was not available, or they had to fight for it can make some bunnies drink a huge amount of water – some even drinking there own urine.  But many times that will taper off over the years.  However, that really doesn’t seem to be the case here. 

I will check around with the resources available to me (vets and experts) about the urinating issue and to see what additional housing options could meet all the requirements (more space and a way to deal with the urine. 

I’m sorry you are having to go through all of this.

 

Helloworld!!

[JK]

Oh boy you sure do have a dilemma and I’m so sorry you are going through this.  I’m glad you took the time to let us know exactly what’s been going on.  You are really a saint to be dealing with Benji. Don’t beat yourself up because there is no way this is your fault.  I truly believe the damage was done before you got Benji.  His past was less than ideal and that has to account for his behavior today. I would suggest running this by Dana Krempels, who is a PhD in  biology. She’s not a vet but she knows way more about rabbit biology I think than my vet! She is an incredible resource and many people here have used her. You can go to the link below and scroll down to her name and ask your question (it’s free).  She was extremely helpful for me with Edson’s issues and she may have some interesting ideas.  It’s worth a shot.

http://allexperts.com/el/703-9/Rabbits/

[Beka27]

congrats on your new addition!  that’s very exciting.

i completely understand your frustration.  i think that the higher cage would not be a good solution.  with a toddler/child you’re going to want something sturdier.  not less sturdy.  i think the best bet, depending of course on your area available would be something similar to BinkyBunny’s.  you could fix it where it took up a section of the kitchen perhaps.  the linoleum would be able to be mopped once or twice a day rather easily.  i think a smaller cage would not work too well, because they would need even more time out to compensate… which would probably lead to more accidents fo Benji.  something larger like that would be more sturdy and permanent which seems to be what you’re looking for.  a cage would be a bit harder to keep clean too, whereas the linoleum bottomed pen could be taken apart frequently for a thorough cleaning.  like i said, this depends on the space you have available… but i would really consider this as being a possiblility.

[BB Administrator]

Also to note about our pen. When we moved we made it so that the sheet vinyl curved up on the edges and we adhered the edge of of the sheet vinyl with a metal strip. That way the bunnies can’t chew the edges and no pee can seep underneath edges. Bailey, because of her e.cuniculi issues (weak hind area) will never be fully littertrained – though she is better with pee than pills. She’s a mess but I find this set-up rather easy. I have a few throw rugs so that one set can always be washing while the others stay in the pen.

The ones in the pictures from earlier (in the galllery) are carpet sample squares, but I have also changed that to some bathroom type carpet rugs (I get them at big lots for $4.00 – $10 each) but it has saved me alot of time and money as I can just throw them in the wash. I use the one with a thin rubber backing and since they are bath rugs, they soak up the wet and dry rather quickly to. Not that you want to have dry urine everywhere, but  while you are in between at least it won’t be soaking wet all the time. Anyway, hope that helps, I’ll try and get some pictures of our new pen soon. (same pen, just different place and curled up and fastened sheet vinyl) I have to go clean it right now anyway.

edited to add pictures:

This is what it looks like without rugs etc:  As you can see the sheet vinyl curves up and is fastened

The next picture  is of a CU of how we secured the vinyl to it  We were lucky enough to have a baseboard to attach it to, but if you don’t have a baseboard, you can get wood to create a baseboard..

 

Next is a picture of Rucy & Jack’s side of the pen with bath mats (Big Lot specials!)  Easy to throw in the washer and dryer. 

This last picture is of Bailey’s side.  Her side is not normally this clean.(I just cleaned it)  I added an extra mat for compfy cushy sitting as she likes to hang out right there and this helps prevent sore hocks – (since she has hind leg weakness, she isn’t as mobile as she used to be)   Anyway, I actually now have three sets of bath mats for her – makes for easy rotation.   Note: Bailey is actually in the litterbox in the picture and her toy friend is on the bath mats.   The red flooring is just blankets – I have five of those blankets for quick change around, though she usually does the bulk of her business where the mats are.

Helloworld!!

[AlexT]

I think I have come up with an option. I found a pen at PetsMart that’s 8 18″ wide panels and 29″ high. The good thing is that it has 1″ wide spacing on the wire, meaning that Benji can’t squeeze his cute little head in between them. It also has an optional waterproof canvas piece that can double as a ceiling or floor, meaning I can make the “totally contained” argument for a parsonage committee if needed. (Also, I’ve discovered our buns seem to like a bit of privacy. When we first got Benji, we had him in a too-small 36×18 cage, but it fit neatly into a corner under a built-in bookcase in our living room and he got tons of playtime. It also occurs to me that their litterbox mistakes happened mostly behind the sofa, where they spent a lot of time. I think they like a more enclosed, cool, shaded area for their den.) The canvas also has a 4″ lip on it, so it would keep mess contained and I could just take it outside and shake it off.

I’m going to go check it out in the store later, but if the canvas is machine washable this could be great! I would just get the pen and maybe two canvases (one for floor and one for ceiling and alternate so I could wash weekly), plus a sheet of something like the vinyl/fiberglass wainscotting I’ve seen at Home Depot to further ensure that the floor stays dry. Total cost would probably be about $100, which is about what I had figured it would set me back to get them something bigger. If my calculations are right, it would have a 45″ diameter and give them about 11 sq ft of floorspace – nearly double what they have now. Hmmm… cottontail cottage? Tubes? All kinds of fun could be had…

Alex

[AlexT]

Binky,

Is that a low-entry litterbox I see in your pic of that incredibly impressive structure? (Would that we had room for something like that!) If so, how large is it, and where did you find it? As Benji gets older, we’re noting a slight decrease in his mobility (possibly early arthritis), and I would like to find a box he can get in and out of easily. I’ve found a few, but the one we have is only 12×14, and I’ve yet to find one larger than 13×13.

Alex

[BinkyBunny]

I’ve made my bunnies’ pen space so large because their time out is more limited because i have to alternate freedom since Bailey and Rucy don’t get along. If they did get along, they would have less cage space and more freedom.

You said Benji has also some weakness – have you had him tested for e.cuniculi (I know I haven’t read through all of your posts and may have mentioned this already) E.cuniculi, while it’s active can pass through the kidneys, and can also cause problems in that area as well. While there is no cure, there are treatments. So it might be a good idea to have him tested for it if you haven’t already.

Litterbox: The litterbox is an oval shaped box by stylette. I found it at several petstores that sell them, and I also found it online (can’t vouch for the store, never used them) https://binkybunny.com/Default.aspx?tabid=54&forumid=2&tpage=2&view=Topic&postid=28206

But even with that, I still make ramps from large Fiddle Sticks – http://www.bizrate.com/morepetsupplies/oid670239757.html, and cover them with bath mats.  (again, can’t vouch for the online store, just found the picture of it there)  I found these also at my local petstores.  Ihave the natural color though, not the brightly colored version, but it wouldn’t matter anyway, I cover it with rugs.  They also come in smaller sizes if you need. 

The ramps did help with the amount of pee mistakes, but because of her weakness, and her bossy nature, she’s insecure AND bossy – a dangerous combination to have in any living being.   She insists on marking the side of the pen where the bunnies can face and sniff each other. 

 Keep us updated on how things work for you.

[AlexT]

I’ve asked our vet about E. Cuniculi.  She doesn’t think that’s the problem, since Benji seems to still have plenty of strength in his legs and shows no signs of paralysis.  He just seems a bit stiff and less willing to bend in different directions, so she thinks its just arthritis given his 5 1/2 year age and the conditions under which he grew up.  (The limited mobility in the birdcage may have affected the development of his bone density and joints.)  He certainly kicked at her hard enough during the visit to convince me!  She’s just prescribed metacam for him to help “lubricate the joints” as my mom would say.

I did pick up the pen and such at PetSmart.  So far the buns seem to love it.  And in the last 4 hours there have been no accidents!  Woot!  Benji is still drinking a bit much, though.  I’m going to give it a few days, and if his water intake decreases, excellent.  If not, well, we’ll move to the next idea.

Anyway, here’s a pic of their new arrangment, with Benji inside for scale.

Alex

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[AlexT]

Forget what I said about no accidents. Benji peed on the bed. I took it out, and it’ll go in the wash later. The good thing is that because the floor is waterproof, I just spritzed it with vinegar and wiped it down to kill the odor. No seepage! For a while, they may just need a lack of absorbent material except for the box to get them used to where pee goes.

Alex

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