House Rabbit training.

[harlibunny]

I just purchased two rabbits.  It goes against my adoption only philosophy, but I really wanted Harliquins.  I keep them in my old rabbit run and hutch ourtside. I had three rabbits over the last several years that I adopted, they are all no longer with me.  Two were adopted into house rabbit homes and the third was tragically taken from me by a vary large animal when I put him out to graze.  (I would do this if it were a house rabbit or not.  I just have pen that nothing can get in now.)  On to my questions.  My two new girls show no signs of taking to a litterbox.  Could it be the breed?  Also, how do I bring them inside and teach them that their nesting area is not the litterbox.  Currently, they use the nestbox/hay area as a bathroom.  I know that rabbits tend to poop where there is hay, but my two girls urinate there as well.  I try to be dilligent about cleaning the box so that it is urine free, but it is made of wood and will always carry the smell.  I could bring them in and start from scratch, but I am afraid that they will destroy the apartment.  Is it possible to litter train females that are intact?  I can’t afford to have them spayed, and although I have not intrest in breeding, I am showing these rabbits.  What can I expect from an intact female vs a spayed female?  Can I still make them house bunnies as I planned?

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

I would like to say to you that unspayed females have an 85% chance of getting cancer and dying by age three; Whereas altered females can live 9-12 years. Have you phoned around for spaying costs? Also, rabbits who get proper veterinary care (which it’s against the law to not seek vet care for an animal in care) can cost on average 200$ a year for vet care.

[Beka27]

welcome here. if you want for them to be house rabbits, which is really the best thing for them (and your relationship with them) all you have to do is make a commitment to keep them indoors with you. if all of your previous rabbits have been outside buns, i have to assume you have not experienced the real joy that comes from rabbit companionship. you can enjoy having buns outside, but there’s something about sharing your space with them, and making the sacrifices to provide them the best life possible that truly strengthens the bond betw/ bunny and owner.

the best way to littertrain and make it stick is by altering the bun. as was mentioned, not altering a female bunny leads to an 85% chance of cancer (and an premature, painful death). it doesn’t always happen, but the risk is too high. you can make strides in the right direction (before altering) by putting hay in the litterbox. buns like to pee and poop where they eat. now… your litterbox is wood? you should get a plastic litterbox, either a small cat one, or a high back small animal litterbox. plastic litterboxes are the only ones that can be cleaned and disinfected properly. wood would just become a wet smelly mess. not good for the buns.

there is always going to be destructive behavior (moreso in unaltered buns) but that is why bunny-proofing is so important. you move things you don’t want chewed out of the area, construct barriers for what cannot be moved, and provide acceptable chewing and digging alternatives.

please take some time to read the bunny info sections at the top of the page (in the green bar) and also check out the Houe Rabbit Society (www.rabbit.org) having house rabbits is an entirely different experience than just having rabbits. if you have more questions, please ask.

edited to add:  i just saw your concern about spaying is price.  there is a vet list on the House Rabbit Society page that lists rabbit vets in different areas.  please call around for prices for spaying.  if you cannot afford the vet costs, you cannot afford to have rabbits as pets.  bunnies are going to cost you as much as or more than a cat or dog to care for.  aside from vet bills, fresh hay and veggies everyday really add up.

[bunnytowne]

well… unspayed females can spray adn they may compete in doing that. if they are not altered.  now for prices sometimes the aspca or humane society in some areas do low cost spay/neuter. do check around. find what is comfortable for you   and they love to chew. please provide them with cardboard boxes and perhaps an old phone book in a cardboard box for them to chew taht way they won’t get too bored and go nuts on things y o prefer them not to chew. you will have to bunny proof they can get under couches and dig into them I have a bunch of couch cushions I found thrown out to place under and between couch and wall to prevent them access. also the box spring under your bed same problem you may block off the bedroom or that area with an xpen / from pet store they will know what you are talking about or block the door from them going in. also sling tubing is more affective in keepign them from destroying your wires. they love to chew wires. reminds them of roots when digging tunnels and they just can’tn resist. perfume and rabbit repellant do not always work. and it does wear off. hope you are not overwhelmed about what all is entailed but as you go along and make adjustments along the way b4 you know it your stuff will be bunny proofed so please dont’ let all this discourage you. harlequins are wonderful breed friendly docile and beautiful. unspayed you may have more difficulty getting them to use the litterbox only. at first they will mark territory for about a month til they get used to the new place. leaving scattered poops and some wee here n there perhaps and may spray urine like a twirling pee. once spayed this should take care of the wee issues. and the poop marking will die down as well and b4 you know it hardly a stray poop will you see. so I wish you teh best on your new endeavor with your 2 beautiful new harlequins. buns indoors are so much fun to watch they play and are so entertaining. nesxt thing you know they will be approaching you to pet them well is highly likely

[JK]

OK I’m a little confused here. The first part of your post says you are keeping them outside in a hutch. The last sentence says you want them to be house buns? Which is it???? I agree you must get rid of the wooden box. You will never be able to clean it and it will harbor all kinds of bacteria. Not a healthy situation. Large cat litter boxes are cheap, around $5, and they work very well. Secondly, the responsible thing to do is to spay your buns. They will have a much healthier and happier life and you will not be contributing to the millions of unwanted animals in the world should one or both get pregnant. There are low cost spays/neuters out there. It really should be a priority. And I sure hope that they are inside buns. Why people get rabbits to put outside in a hutch is beyond me. They will never become really social or have a chance to develop their incredible personalities. Good luck with them.

[Erbear]

I don’t think it’s the breed… radar is a harlequin and she’s absolutly crazy about her litterbox. If it’s too dirty or not enough hay she will drag it outside of her house and switch it for the one on the other side of the room. Could just be the hormone thing like others have said.

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

OMG that’s too funny -“this one won’t do, I’ll have to get that one over there!!” hehe

[Floppy]

harlibunny, not sure where you are but like the others have said spaying your bunnies is good for their health.
They will be happier, not as agressive, and much easier to train. They are more affectionate , etc.. Not sure where
you’re located but there are low costs spay and neuter clinics if you’re in the US. Not sure about elsewhere.
Bunnies that live outdoors in hutches are not happy bunnies, and they have to deal with the elements. All the
members here enjoy having their buns inside– it may take a lot more work but they’re worth it!

[harlibunny]

Thank you for the wonderful advice on my rabbits.  Although there were some points that were misunderstood, I now have a better idea of what I want to do with my buns.  I don’t know how the suggestion came up that both of my rabbits could become pregnant, because that would be impossible.  Someone also mentioned that they were confused as to what I want and that I should make up my mind.  I thought I made it clear that I wanted my rabbits, although currently housed outside in a protected shelter hutch, to come indoors with me.  My questions were about how to do that, not about the controversy regarding altered females.  However I do recognize that having them altered is a big part of having them litter trained and overall better for their health and happiness.  I have looked into having them altered, but currenly I am running into logistical problems regarding how to alter them both and seperating them while still keeping them next to each other.  I am concerned that they will pull out each other stiches, not to mention that since they aren’t litter trained, I would have two problems istead of the one.  Should I attempt to litter train them then have them altered, or alter them and just wait until after they are healted to attempt the litter training?

[Beka27]

Posted By harlibunny on 04/23/2008 5:16 AM

… I don’t know how the suggestion came up that both of my rabbits could become pregnant, because that would be impossible.  

… I thought I made it clear that I wanted my rabbits, although currently housed outside in a protected shelter hutch, to come indoors with me.  My questions were about how to do that, not about the controversy regarding altered females.   

… I have looked into having them altered, but currenly I am running into logistical problems regarding how to alter them both and seperating them while still keeping them next to each other.  I am concerned that they will pull out each other stiches, not to mention that since they aren’t litter trained, I would have two problems istead of the one.  Should I attempt to litter train them then have them altered, or alter them and just wait until after they are healted to attempt the litter training?

i’m glad you came back.  i apologize if we seem a little bit nutty about spaying… but we’ve seen what happens when people choose not to have it done.  i am pleased you have decided to go ahead with it.  as far as your logistical problems… would you be altering both at the same time?  that’s usually the easiest on both you and the buns b/c they heal at the same time.  last time you posted they were in an outdoor hutch.  they are inside now?  what kind of indoor cage or enclosure are you using?  you can maybe house one in an xpen during the healing process, or put two cages side by side, and keep them right next to each other.  they may snuggle thru the bars.  it is not uncommon for buns to have to be rebonded after surgery, but chances are their bond would have broken anyways thru puberty, so this is not really a big deal at all.

i would begin littertraining today.  littertraining begins immediately.  i suggested in my previous post how you can do that.  and also check out the bunny info section at the top for more tips on littertraining.  they will probably catch on, but it may not be 100% until the spay.  even then they might have the occasional accident.  buns are creatures of habit and they like to potty in the same places.  you would be surprised how easy littertraining can be for some buns.

you were asking how how to make them house rabbits… and i answered that in my first post…

if you want for them to be house rabbits, which is really the best thing for them (and your relationship with them) all you have to do is make a commitment to keep them indoors with you.

bring them inside… and TA-DA…. they are house rabbits. 

they could become pregnant.  buns are very difficult to sex, even for professionals.  if they are sexed too young and then never again, it’s often wrong.  assuming both of yours are female… that is not to say they will never be around another bun. 

example:

your friend brings an unaltered male bun over.  you are pet-sitting a male bun.  you choose to get a male bun.  you get a third female bun that is wrongly sexed. 

buns are notorious escape artists, so even caged separately the only guarantee against pregnancy is altering.  most litters are accidental.

again… welcome back!  i hope this helps to clear up the confusion.

 

[babybunsmum]

i def think you can make them house buns!  i think the easiest way to do this is to plan ahead by having an enclosure for them that is not only suitable for them size-wise but also easy to keep clean.  i really love the latest condo i built for my newest bun (pic below) because it’s easy to clean.  i sweep stray poops & hay down to the hay / litter level & have a towel & spray bottle (vinegar/water) nearby for quickly wiping up any puddles.  (i have a plain water bottle too because viengar residue is not good for bun foots). 

this enclosure is made if NIC cubes, zipt ties and plastic sign board which is easy to wipe & keep clean.  check out the ‘cool habitiats’ section under bunny info on this site for tonnes of pics & links to different enclosure options.  prior to having this set-up i had a store bought cage with a plastic bottom & not only was it too small (tho my bun was never enclosed in it as she had her own room to be enclosed it) but it was a holy pain to clean out. 

but you don’t have to be fancy with this enclosure thing if it seems overwhelming… all you need is a wipeable floor and an x-pen or NIC cubes fastened together to make a fenced off area.  if your area is carpeted i’d recommend picking up a piece of vinyl floor slightly bigger than the area that will be ’fenced’.   then get a big plastic litter pan and put some litter in it (non-clay non-clumping type) and lots of hay. it also helps to keep their food right beside it.  note that buns do like to lay in their litter box.  don’t know why but they do.  they also like to toss their litte box so it may be that you’ll have to fasten it to the enclosure walls (punch holes & zip tie?).

if you have the right set-up & plan to clean spills & messy potty habits it’ll be sooo much easier to litter train.  easier for you that is!  because it’ll be so much less frustrating.  litter training can be a long process so i’d recommend first getting an enclosure setup for the buns, then moving them inside and starting litter training right away as beka mentions too. 

as for the spaying topic… it will seriously help the litter box situation.  pre-spay my girl pinky pooped everywhere and left puddles randomly to mark.  now she doesn’t pee or poop anywhere but in her enclosure.  what helped:  she was in her enclosure a solid week when she first moved in to get aquainted with the place (this is why it’s important to be big enough), and so it enforced that this is her space.  after the first week of enclosure confinement i gradually increased her free roam area which took about a month.  then she was spayed. 

now the spayed vs. intact question… i’m the perfect one to answer since i have a 7yr old intact female & have recently spayed my 1 yr old female.  i def recommend spaying!  behaviourly i can already tell a HUGE difference based on potty habits alone as i already mentioned.  pinky = spayed & is totally litter trained now.  baby = intact & constantly marks everywhere.   pinky pre-spay was always hassling the dog & trying to dominate (hump / pee on) and now one month after her spay does not do that anymore.  baby always hassles the dog with dominant behaviour.   behaviour aside, last year i spent $900 having a cancerous mammary mass removed from baby’s belly.  mammary & uterine cancer is very very high in unaltered buns.  it’s a miracle really that she has lived so long.  now that i know about this & have a great vet she is unfortunately too old to be spayed.

also, as other have mentioned, having them separate until the sexes are comfirmed is really important.  there has been many a surprise litter posted about here as a direct result from an incorrect sexing.

good luck with your move!  there’s a lot to think about at first but once you have the set-up that’s right for you i know you’ll love having house rabbits!!!

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[skunklionshow]

I worked on litter training, following the suggestions on this site, prior to Jessica getting spayed.  She often went back and forth w/ her litterbox skills, so it often seemed like an ongoing process of repetition.  Her litter habits got consistent and improved once she got spayed.  It was completely worth the couple of hundred bucks to not have puddles everywhere. 

I agree that to make them house rabbits, all you have to do is bring them inside and bunny proof.  My buns have their condo, like baby bun suggested, NIC cubes.  I built it up and around my original dog cage.  Just like the one pictured, it’s multiple levels.  B/c of problems w/ the cats, I do not allow the buns free access unsupervised.  So they are in their condo during the work day and come out in the evening…sometimes even over night…when the hubby doesn’t know.  Jessica likes to have access to my hallway and stairs during her hip hop time, but Leo just stays in the living room.

Please keep us all updated on your bunny progress and welcome to BB!

[harlibunny]

Hey everyone,

So, I built my harli’s a rather large indoor pen out of the organizational cubes and put three litterboxes inside the corners that they would most likely use.  I must say that they did use the litter boxes, as well as urinated everywhere else possible.  They could care less where they pooped and although I know that litter training is a process, but are you speaking from experience with large rabbits or smaller rabbits?  I mean, I can only be home before and after work to clean up their “accidents” which seem to occur more than actual successes.  My housemate wants them back outside already becuse the room smells so much. 

My question to everyone is:  I have a secure pen made out of wood and wire, completely enclosed.  I used the pen on nice days to let them eat grass even when they lived outdoors in a hutch.  They have already picked a corner that they like to poop in religiously.  If I put a litterbox outside with them on grass during the day, and bring them indoors at night and still continue to litter train them, will I be setting the process back or stopping the process all together?  I know that there are risks involved in putting them out even in a secure pen, but I have thought through those risks and delt with as many of those issues as possible.  Also, I know that you may ask why put them out at all.  Well, the rabbits are BIG, and therefore, since they are not littertrained, even when I am diligent about cleaning, I can’t keep up with the indoor cage as it needs severe cleaning at least 2x a day so that they will learn which spots are not pottys.  I have a wet vac and vinager, but it takes too long to clean before work.  After work is fine….I am dedicating myself to making this work, but I have a housemate that is not as supportive.  If they go outside, that is half the cleaning….and if they are litterbox trained, they should use the one I put outside so that they have a larger area of grass to eat.  Please let me know what you think.  Oh….and of course they would only go out on beautiful days such as this spring day…..hopefully they will be trained by summer.  

Thanks…..

[Beka27]

http://www.rabbit.org/faq/sections/litter.html

https://binkybunny.com/Default.aspx?tabid=62

these are the HRS and BB links for littertraining in case you have not seen them.

the littertraining is the same process regardless of what size your bun is, altho i think that based on experiences, people with smaller buns tend to have more issues.  going out and then coming back in may be confusing them.  the goal is to start very small with limited running space and allow them to claim the area and learn to use the box.  if they have just come inside the house, they may still be trying to mark the new territory as theirs.  allow them to do this, but continue to encourage the box.  do you have tempting items in there?  like hay or a small healthy treat?  are the boxes large enough for both buns?  some buns catch on immediately, in your case it seems it will take some time on your part to get these desired bahaviors. 

keep in mind, it is likely that the potty habits will not be 100% until after spaying.  or even if they do figure out the litterbox before then, those habits could slip away once puberty starts, so be prepared that you may need to go thru the process again.  good luck.

edited to add: the urine smells are much stronger before altering as well… it may smell a little bit, but it might help to keep the box dirty for a day or two longer so they can really pick up the scent.  the disinfecting is necessary, but everytime you do this, it “erases” their marking, so they feel the need to do it again.  can you try to clean up the pee with out completely disinfecting to see if the lingering scent will decrease that behavior?  i know your housemate is getting antsy, but tell him or her that it’s a process.

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