Hay and Pellets

[jlr5412]

I have 1 possible mini rex mix, 2 mini rex, and 2 holland lops. I was just curious as to how much everyone would think 4 bunnies of those breeds would go thru. I do not have the option to go to farms or such to buy bales I go online on chewy. com and order bags of hay because I have to order dog food and such from them anyways and it comes right to my door. I am a new bunny owner and have not had them for a whole month yet this is why I am wondering so when it comes time to order my dogs food I will know how much to purchase without under doing it. I get oxbow hay and I currently have a 90oz bag of the timothy/orchard grass blend and they have not went thru half the bag yet. All of my bunnies are approximately a little over 8 weeks old if I am feeding them oxbow’s young rabbit pellets which is alfalfa based pellets do I really have to feed them alfalfa hay as well since they are getting alfalfa from their pellets? Here are pictures of 3 of the 4 bunnies I keep plus the bunny that is technically my oldest daughter’s bunny that she keeps at my mothers due to living there as well. Sorry I do not have pictures of Cara I have had no luck when I have the opportunity of lately to take a real good picture the means to take one is dead or lost and seem to never be found again for quite some time. Cara is 1 of the 4 bunnies I keep at my own home. The broken red booted mini rex is Bootsie(oldest daughter’s/Nakoma’s sister), the black holland lop is Sophie, the broken black torte mini rex is Nakoma, and the harlequin holland lop is Cali. 

[photos added in back in by a Forum Leader]

[jerseygirl]

Aw, the pictures didn’t work. : ( I took a look at the attached files for you and I think the # symbol in the file name may be the problem. Try save the files under a different name without symbols, reupload and see if that works. Would love to see your bunny crew!

I personally think it is fine for them to eat just orchard/timothy hay along with the junior pellets at this age. Do you happen to know if they had alfalfa hay before they came to you? If they got a taste for it, you may find they get a bit picky about the grass hay on offer. Are they eating it much?

Im not good with estimates of how much you would need, especially working in oz and lbs as im used to grams and kilograms!
I do think if you try ordering a larger amount of hay at any point, look into getting boxed hay, not bagged. The bag variety tend to break down and become dusty. You might find the box hay will store better, especially when you start getting larger quantities.

[jlr5412]

Thanks for the heads up on the pictures I sure will try what you suggested to do and thanks for you input. Well I can not remember right off if they were given alfalfa hay before I got them or not. Well all of my bunnies pictured plus Cara that is not pictured and my daughters bunny Bootsie eats barely above an average amount of hay per each bunny by themselves. They are not insanely ravenous or something but some nights they do tend to eat a slight bit more. Oh I got this unit converter thing that would convert any unit of measurement like that but I see your point on all of that. I can order oxbow 9 pound of timothy hay and oxbow 9 pound of orchard grass totaling 18 pounds/ 8164.66 grams/ 8.16466 kilograms. So now with all that info do you think an amount like that would last my crew of 4 a full month or a little over that? Cara is the same size as Nakoma and Bootsie. 

[jlr5412]

I just uploaded the pictures and from my end I can see all of them. So now you can see all of my crew minus 1 plus my daughter’s bunny Bootsie. 

[jerseygirl]

Posted By jlr5412 on 4/12/2018 12:11 AM

I just uploaded the pictures and from my end I can see all of them. So now you can see all of my crew minus 1 plus my daughter’s bunny Bootsie. 

I sent you a PM.  

[Sirius&Luna]

I have three small breed rabbits – two 1 kilo-ish ones, and one 2 kilo bun. I buy 9kg bags of timothy hay, and it lasts about a month.

Pellets last me forever, as I only give them a tablespoon each a day. I guess I buy a new 2kg bag of pellets every 3 months or so.

[Deleted User]

You don’t have the three all living together in the same enclosure, do you?

[jlr5412]

Thanks for your input. I have heard many people say the amount of hay is the most and the pellets are the least with them having a crew no larger than ours there is always the occasional exception though. The problem with me is I do not get out and about much so I do not know of any good local farms and such that would even sale a bale of hay that would be safe and good to give my rabbits and I do not get the opportunity to go to the feed stores much. So I am stuck with the online option for ordering dog and rabbit supplies which is not bad at all but opinions vary on this. 

[jlr5412]

Yes all 4 are housed together and they are all females. I have a very large cage inside of a pretty big dog exercise pen set up with chew toys, hide spots, tunnels, and such. I even bought a portable fan that attaches to the side of a dog pen, crate, or such to cool a animal down for them so when summer comes they do not over heat or something because my air conditioner where I rent does not work at all the heat does but not the cool needed air conditioner. They all are let romp around like mad fur turds in the exercise pen set up plus I get them all out and they run around in the living room and get put up at night so no harm comes to them by escaping or whatever they could possibly get into by themselves. So no one should worry about 4 bunnies being in a enclosure like this they are not cooped or anything. Oh and yes they get along very very well. 

[Sirius&Luna]

I know you said you don’t have any farms nearby, but for future reference, horse quality hay is fine for rabbits. Any grass hay is fine as the staple hay. With 4, you might end up looking for cheaper options than online!

The problem with housing them together is not the space (although I’m glad to hear you’ve got such a good set up for them!), it’s that as rabbits mature, they get hormonal and are pretty likely to start fighting. So while baby bunnies get along with anyone, as they turn into teenagers (Any point from 8 weeks to 6 months), they start to become aggressive and can have nasty fights (drawing blood, ripping ears, pulling chunks of fur and skin) with bunnies that they previously were great friends with. Bunnies need to be spayed/neutered and bonded before they can live together permanently. Lots of people don’t know this when they first get their bunnies, but it’s so important to prevent fights before they happen!

Another reason not to house them all together is that baby bunnies are very difficult to sex, and it wouldn’t be that unusual for one of your ‘girls’ to be a boy, resulting in new litters.

[jlr5412]

I plan on getting them all fixed eventually after I locate a rabbit savvy vet. I see your point but they are fine as of this moment and they are all in that hormonal age range you mentioned they are all between the 8 weeks and 6 months age range. So far there has been no incident except when I got the two Holland lops my mini rex Nakoma was a little mrs. meanie to the harlequin one. I had to keep her in a cage within the exercise pen setup I have and let the others out and run and play around her cage. Then my daughter brought hers up here to visit which is Nakoma’s sister they were born the same day, same parents, and same litter. I do not know if the cage thing worked or having them all out in the living room playing together or what, but there has never been an incident since and they all get along. I do still observe them from time to time for little anger issues or whatever you call it. 

[Deleted User]

It doesn’t matter that they are “fine at this moment”. That’s exactly what it is, a moment. You can’t just throw them in together and if one gets hurt say “well they were fine earlier”. Bonding needs to be taken seriously as bunnies can literally fight to the death. You are endangering them by letting them live and play together. Hormones can start happening at a moment’s notice. And when that happens you hope to God that you’re home so someone doesn’t lose a chunk of ear or scratches an eye. You can’t observe them 24/7 for “little anger issues”. Please listen to what people are saying so they don’t get injured or pregnant at such a young age. 

Bunnies also don’t recognize family units. To them they are just an intruder. Not a sibling. 

[Deleted User]

They’re fine until they’re not. I strongly advise you not to keep them together. It takes only SECONDS for injuries to occur in a rabbit fight. People on this forum have had rabbits lose chunks of their ears, had testicles ripped off, and have had bites and scratches become infected. Up until the fights, these members swear that their rabbits were “fine”. This is really not something to be taken lightly.

[Wick & Fable]

Wick’s hormones didn’t hit until 8mo. Every rabbit is different. I also advise separation based on the fact that again, whether two rabbits are strangers or siblings who have gotten along since birth, the hormone surge can happen overnight and immediately kick, re-wiring rabbit relationships. There are numerous stories of owners who cuddled with their rabbits, but once the hormones hit, the rabbit began biting, scratching, and growling at them, despite a healthy relationship literally a day prior to the hormone presence. The same trend also occurs in rabbits. There are also a number of unhealthy bonds between rabbits, where the rabbits may not kill each other thus are kept together, but there are episodes of unhealthy bullying and chasing which leads to high stress for both rabbits involved.

Wick was fine on one lovely Friday, and then Saturday morning I woke up and spraying of me began relentlessly -shutters-.

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[Deleted User]

Also, if you’re in the U.S. I recommend hay from Small Pet Select. You can get boxes of like 20lbs, 40lbs, even 60lbs. With 4 rabbits, you’re gonna go through a lot of hay. I’ve been getting from them for a year and their hay has always been fresh and good. It might be a little more expensive than other options, but my bun loves it.

[jlr5412]

I understand your point but to get on here and personally put me down by saying I am endagering them and such like I am an animal abuser or something is uncalled for. I never got on here to have that done so if anyone has something negative to say keep a scrolling. You could have stated what you knew of this type of thing and been giving advice but not be putting me down I accept advice but not a put down. I have never abused an animal in my life I appreciate your input but not everything else. 

[Deleted User]

It’s not a put down. It’s the truth. Keeping them together when several people have warned of the consequences is endangering them, whether it’s intentional or not. It’s not saying you’re abusing them. It’s saying that they could get in trouble without you knowing and unintentionally be harmed. Nothing was meant to be rude.

[jlr5412]

Thanks for your input and I am currently online right now calling around looking for a rabbit savvy vet. Once I find one I am pricing the cost of spaying to get the cheapest place plus looking into the facility itself so I know they are up to par. Then once everything is sorted it is off to be spayed and hopefully this truly does the trick on the hormones and plus I do not plan on breeding and never have. 

[Deleted User]

You are endangering them. That is just a fact, it’s not a personal attack. Unbonded rabbits who are not spayed/neutered can literally fight to the death. So yes, the situation that you have them in is playing with fire and is quite dangerous. Not one person called you an animal abuser. You’re quite misinformed, but I don’t think that you’re purposely abusing your animals.

I understand how it can feel to have several people “jump” on you like this. Please try to understand that we are just concerned for the safety of the rabbits.

My final two cents: You were misinformed, that doesn’t make you a bad owner. Now, you have been given the proper information. If you allow them to continue living together despite what you have learned, I would then classify you as a bad owner. Use this knowledge to protect your rabbits, don’t just turn us off because you’re offended.

[jlr5412]

Thanks I will look into that. You would think since I live in West Virginia a country area I would know of a local hay source but unfortunately I do not. I just do not get out a lot and the way some are around here I just do not mesh with well. I get to depressed when things get to me and right now I kind of am. 

[Deleted User]

Posted By jlr5412 on 4/13/2018 10:47 AM

Thanks I will look into that. You would think since I live in West Virginia a country area I would know of a local hay source but unfortunately I do not. I just do not get out a lot and the way some are around here I just do not mesh with well. I get to depressed when things get to me and right now I kind of am. 

Did you see my post about Small Pet Select? They also deliver to your home, and you can get large quantities of good quality hay from them. I just have one rabbit and a 20lbs box lasts me months

[Deleted User]

West Virginia Rabbit-Savvy Vets:

Paw Prints Veterinary Clinic
1745 Mileground Road
Morgantown, WV 26505
304-296-7387

Jesse Fallon, DVM
Cheat Lake Animal Hospital
286 Fairchance Road
Morgantown, WV 26508
24 Hour Emergency Clinic
304-594-1124

Kelly Owen, DVM
Hillcrest Veterinary Clinic
3083 Point Marion Road
Morgantown, WV 26505
304-292-6933

Sarah Stephenson, DVM
The Good Shepherd Veterinary Hospital
3703 MacCorkle Avenue SE
Charleston, WV 25304
(304) 925-7387

*obtained from the House Rabbit Society*

[jlr5412]

Well first off saying that someone is endangering their animals kind of signals to anyone that someone is saying they are a animal abuser or something of the sorts. Yes it did feel like I was attacked just a bit but thanks for the info. Now I am so freakn depressed about it all and do not know what to do and crying my eyes out thanks. Now I am a mess and I do not care what anyone classifies me as I have been classified a lot by some that do not even really know me to have any opinion of me and been thought of as pretty bad and such. Though that really is not how I am but people have the right to their own opinions. I will not shut anyone out as long as the conversations stay civil and no put downs plan and simple. 

[jlr5412]

Thanks for the info I would ten times rather go to Morgantown than Charleston. Charleston is just wow kind of traffic for me very unnerving and it just seems like every time I go near that place there is an accident on the way there or the way out and yes sometimes the vehicle I have been in has been involved. Now Morgantown is just the opposite no accidents and everything is so much better plus I have to travel near there for my thyroid and lung doctor and soon will be going to a brain doctor for my Chiari malformation in Morgantown so yeah. I would go to Charleston if all else failed but wow that place has it in for me well I know it does not but you get my point. I found animal care associates veterinary hospital in Charleston that spays and neuters rabbits and some popped up that were in Greenbrier county. 

[Deleted User]

This isn’t opinion based. So many people don’t know that you can’t keep rabbits together. I wasn’t trying to offend you, but you do need to understand the situation. I’m actually trying to be really helpful here and I’ve gone out of my way to provide you with all the information on rabbit-savvy vets in the WV area.

[jlr5412]

I do understand and thanked you for your help and effort on the vet thing and everything else you have recommended. 

[jerseygirl]

Let keep this topic back to the original questions.

The concerns about the rabbits co-habiting has been well covered. It is okay to state ones concerns and pass on info about recommendations but leave it at that.

p.s. The pic of baby Cali cracks me up. It reminds me of my Potamus-she is magpie harli colours. She made exact same expression. 

[BB Administrator]

Just a reminder to be respectful as we move forward. I understand the concerns of members and respect the unsolicited advice so that the OP can be informed and avoid injuries to bunnies. This can be helpful for a new bunny owner. Great resources and information supplied. That’s great! Just please steer away from education techniques that turn someone away.  

Seems like jls5412 has heard/received the advice and respectfully replied, even though feeling a bit ruffled by “endangerment” comments. To prevent this thread from spiraling, I agree with JG, to get the focus back on the OP’s original question. Support and education is sometimes little bit by little bit – patience and kindness can be extremely helpful.

jls5312 – I am sorry you are feeling depressed or discouraged in any way. Experienced bunny owners are really trying to prevent issues for you and your bunnies later on – As it is true, babies can get along well at 8 weeks, but at 12 weeks, when hormones may make females begin to become territorial. This can change the dynamic drastically. So this is something you will need to watch carefully. I know it’s hard to post and then feel criticized. Reading words, (without knowing the actual emotional tone and intention), can be received in a variety of ways. Take a deep breath.  We do care about you and your bunnies. And I encourage everyone to be kind and patient.

Now back to your original question: Diet — does a baby bunny really need Alfalfa Hay if they get Alfalfa Pellets? Baby bunnies are growing fast, which is why a richer diet of alfalfa is encouraged at this age. But as long as they are getting plenty of alfalfa pellets, then the type of hay is less important (unless they are a large breed as their bones are growing at a fast rate and calcium is needed).  Many times people choose to feed alfalfa hay and timothy pellets.  When I read the HRS recommendations, it makes me think baby bunnies should have access to unlimited Alfalfa hay until 7 months, and the pellets may be another base type.  Because at 7 months they state you should start to “introduce” Timothy or other grass hays, so that makes me think that before then should be Alfalfa.  (I can see where this could be a little confusing)    I will actually contact HRS headquarters this weekend to get this clarified. I know I have gone over this before — but can’t for the life of me remember! 

I always rely on the HRS guidelines: SOURCE https://rabbit.org/faq-diet/

What quantities of food should I feed babies and “teenagers”?

• Birth to 3 weeks–mother’s milk
• 3 to 4 weeks–mother’s milk, nibbles of alfalfa and pellets
• 4 to 7 weeks–mother’s milk, access to alfalfa and pellets
• 7 weeks to 7 months–unlimited pellets, unlimited hay (plus see 12 weeks below)
• 12 weeks–introduce vegetables (one at a time, quantities under 1/2 oz.)

What quantities of food should I feed young adults? (7 months to 1 year)

• introduce timothy hay, grass hay, oat hay, and other hays; decrease alfalfa
• decrease pellets to 1/2 cup per 6 lbs. body weight
• increase daily vegetables gradually; make sure your rabbit can tolerate
• fruit daily ration no more than 1 oz. to 2 oz. per 6 lbs. body weight (because of calories)

Helloworld!!

[jlr5412]

She is just starting to get use to be handled and all of that. So she is just now livening up a bit. They are all something else especially mine Cara she is extremely smart and figures out things quick and she binkies all over the place and runs fast. Nakoma is sort of like Cara but not on the large scale that Cara is. Sophie the little black Holland lop is a little shy but is starting to come around and you do not take your eye off of her she is quick to and will play a hoodenei trick like Cara does. I see where my photos are back up so I will just keep those there till I get the time to get better ones then put those ones up. 

[jlr5412]

This is the last time I will ever bring this up or respond to anything other than replies to my original question, but I am posting this so everyone knows. Due to certain replies to my original post or whatever you prefer to call it I went on the hunt for a more local vet that dealt with rabbits. Well it just so happens that I found one who deals with rabbits and all sorts of animals and they will spay everyone of my rabbits plus my daughters. So they are going to be fixed one by one or two by two or whatever combination till all of them are spayed and that is when they become of age which I forgot to ask them about and can not till Monday when they are back in office. I live in Cowen, WV and the vet is I believe the outskirts of Fayetteville, WV which is not but a half hour or a little over that away but definitely should not take an hour to get there. So yes it is closer than Morgantown and all the other ones and it is a very recommended facility and the vets are regarded very highly believe me I checked into them. 

[BB Administrator]

I just got some good info back from HRS regarding feeding alfalfa hay and alfalfa pellets:

For 7 weeks to 7 months: the hay & pellets should both be alfalfa.

What they do also at their HRS location is if the babies are looking full grown & chubby at 5-7 months, they switch them from alfalfa hay to orchard/timothy early. They do alfalfa pellets until at least 1 year, then switch to an adult formulated pellet, whether alfalfa or timothy-based.

Hope this helps!

Helloworld!!

[jlr5412]

Thanks for the information and also for thinking of it all and taking the time out of your life to get said information. Well two of my rabbits were born on 2-3-2018 and the other two were born on 2-9-2018. So with this info I would be ok with just giving them the oxbow young rabbits pellets which have the alfalfa in them and then I give them oxbow hay blend that has timothy and orchard hay in it? It is a little confusing I am a bit sick my face hurts like crazy I just feel like crap so reading something like this is a bit hard to get thru my mind sorry. 

[Author]

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