Fiver is ill?

[MimzMum]

Poor ittle guy has had a few too many treats lately, I think. He is starting to leave cecals in his bed and when he turns around to eat them, he smears them all over his feet and bum and his heels are loking the worse for it. His vent seems a little irritated too. (He really needs to lose some weight, he can’t reach to eat the cecals the normal way.)

I have at least a few days before I can get him to the vet. Other than cutting out everything in his diet but his one leaf of green lettuce in the A.M.’s, his few Oxbow pellets (eves) and his timothy hay, is there anything else I should do? (I’m going to try the distilled water for him also, since I notice some white pasty stuff in his litterbox…Sarita’s thread on Twizzler had a post recommending distilled water.)

One other thing…he’s blowing his coat right now. MAJOR tufts coming out down to almost skin on his back. He is scratching his ears like he wants to peel them off and they are getting red and sore looking. Could that be due to an imbalance in his diet or could he have an infection?

[Lightchick]

Poor Fiver! This is way beyond my experience…all I can offer is *vibes*…

[Sarita]

I think the best thing to help him lose weight is to get him active. How much pellets do you give him? I would give him more than one leaf of green lettuce too – he needs a variety and more greens than that.

Getting him active will also help to ensure that he does not get bladder sludge – this can very well be the result of inactivity moreso than diet.

I think he may just be dong a molt which all rabbits do and this can affect them as well as far as behavior and wanting to eat.

I would not rule out mites either though which would need a vet to diagnose and recommend treatment.

[lottin_uk]

We have this problem with Jack too. He was obese before we rescued him, and he has a huge lurk under his chin, sometimes if he puts on a little weight, the chin restricts him from eating his cecals, and he too stamps them into the carpet (yuck!). his chin is so huge sometimes it drags on the floor!
He is such a greedy rabbit tho, it can be hard to say no, and as we have the 2 of them we worry that if we cut back on food too much Lilly won’t get any!!!!

One tip I have for Hay is to stuff it into toilet roll tubes, and leave them around the room – can be messy but encourages him to eat hay – he’s so picky sometimes he’d rather wait for brocolli than eat hay! definately notice a difference when he is eating more hay.

Only other thing I can think of is that we weigh out the food they get everyday to try and keep his weight down as he’d eat until he burst!!

Sorry can’t be of more help.
Lx

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

Oats-whole or rolled can also be given in a small amount (like a teaspoon or so) and they can help to dry them up a bit.
{{FIVER}} Keep us posted!!

[Sarita]

I don’t think the rolled oats are going to help dry the problem up.

This is from HRS that has some good information:

Sluggish Motility, Soft Stools And A Suitable Diet

Last September, the day before the due date of my son, our rabbit stopped eating and going to the bathroom. Luckily, we had time before I went into labor to take Smokey to the vet. Your article “Sluggish Motility in the GI Tract” (HRJ Vol. III, No. 7) helped us a lot! I’ve always given Smokey plenty of hay, but not many fresh foods. I started doing so after reading the article, and Smokey has been a lot more lively and, I think, happier.

Thank you.

Heather Christensen

Annapolis, MD

I found the article by Dr. Susan Brown on “Sluggish Motility in the Gastrointestinal Tract” very informative since my 6 year old Dutch bunny, Benjamin, was operated on three years ago for a “hairball.” Since his surgery, I have tried to feed him timothy hay. However, he just chews it and plays with it. He doesn’t seem to care for many vegetables and fruits either. Benjamin has very soft stools at some time during each day and then they become hard and firm again. This has been going on ever since his surgery. What causes this daily episode of soft stools?

Barbara-Jean Bayus

Colonia, NJ

Frequently my four year old, spayed female rabbit has problems with “clumpy” damp feces on her bottom. Besides her pellets, she has fresh water daily and plenty of timothy hay. A year ago, she had surgery for three rather large bladder stones.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Judy Gardiner

Jeffersontown, KY

Whiskers, my four year old, female dwarf rabbit eats pellets well and only nibbles at the timothy hay. When I got her, I was pleased that she ate fruit, vegetables, rolled oats, and anything else I set in front of her. The problem is she then produces a pudding-like feces blob (not cecal matter). She does this with everything I give her besides pellets. Am I harming her system by giving treats twice a day? What’s going on?

Kathy Butz

Lancaster, PA

Carolynn Harvey, DVM, responds:

Thanks to Dr. Susan Brown and Dr. Jeff Jenkins, we have come to realize that chronic soft clumping cecal stools (as opposed to the neat “bunch of grapes” of normal cecal output) result from a carbohydrate overload in the diet, and a relative fiber deficiency. This can result from feeding the wrong mix of foods, or just too much of a good thing. Limiting “concentrates” in the diet (pellets, grains, breads, fruit, etc.) is usually effective in controlling the problem. Start with a health exam and fecal flotation for parasites. If the veterinarian finds no other problems, gradually change the diet toward a goal of:

1. High-fiber pellets
(20-25%) in strictly limited amounts (no more than 1 /4 cup per 5 lb. of ideal body weight)

2. Unlimited fresh, appetizing grass hay

3. One-half to 2 cups of fresh greens per day

4. Carbohydrate treats (bread, fruit, pasta, etc) should not be fed during the recovery period, can be added back in small amounts (1-2 Tbsp per day) when stool has normalized.

Dr. Brown often takes rabbits completely off pellets temporarily or permanently with good results. I take the more moderate approach above.

    

[MimzMum]

Thanks everyone!
I cut out all treats yesterday and he actually left his bowl of pellets last night. Seems to have no interest. Disturbing, as he normally finishes them off before I get up in the morning.
Plus he hasn’t eaten much hay overnight. VERY odd for him…he did gobble down his green leaf lettuce today, but if I give him more than one of those a day, he gets diarrhea.
Calling the doc. *sigh* Will probably have to take Mimzy in too, as he is having sneezing fits again. >.< Will it never end??

[Sarita]

I do think you should have a vet look at him for his soft stool – I don’t think it’s actually diarrhea as this is rare in rabbits and can be fatal.

I have heard of some rabbits being sensitive to greens so that is possible. A lady I knew had a Dutch rabbit who just could not tolerate any vegetables – I don’t think that’s very common but it is possible.

What type of hay are you feeding him?

It will take much longer too that one day for his problem to correct when you change his diet – I understand it can take up to 4 months (could be longer). It won’t happen in a night or a week or a month probably.

[MimzMum]

4 Months?? 0_o Wow, that seems like an awful long time for a bunny to recover from something like this. Poor Fiver!
I just checked on him again and some of his pellets are gone. *whew!* I think we’ll still cut back to encourage him to eat more hay, but it’s good to see he didn’t turn them down altogether. (He only gets Alfalfa King Timothy Hay, it’s the only one he’ll eat, really.)
I have found that he can’t have things like romaine lettuce…that tends to really soften him up and you can see he’s uncomfortable after eating it. I also don’t give him any gassy veggies, like broccoli, for the same reason.
Would kale have this effect on a bun? I only give him one small leaf per week on Sundays. And I usually include a bit of carrot to add a little moisture to the meal.

[Sarita]

Well what you are doing is changing their diet so that the soft stools don’t reoccur so it could take awhile for their gut to adjust.

I think as far as vegetables you are just going to have to do a process of elimination and see what Fiver can tolerate. Ideally I think you want to be able to give them a mixture of vegetables.

I wouldn’t stop altogether with the pellets – he is probably not going to be getting all the nutrients he needs from just the hay and his limited vegetables. I think a small amount is fine and you should continue with those. He does need more fiber though and if the likes that timothy hay I see no reason to change it.

Rabbits diets can be so frustrating – I hear so many different things from everyone on my rabbit lists.

[MimzMum]

Well it’s official, Fiver and Mimzy go in on Thursday morning. According to the weather forecast, it’s supposed to rain/snow that day…so I’m praying for a safe road despite conditions.
Fiver does seem to be doing better today without his treats. Much firmer already. But you can see he misses them. Guess he’ll just have to settle for extra noserubs instead.
Mimzy is starting to sneeze again too, so I’m going to nip it in the bud this time. I just hate the thought of another big bill for a culture though. >.<

[BinkyBunny]

oye, what a bummer all around! I sure hope the vet can help get this under control without another big bill.

Definitely have her check for mites with the itchy ears.

Keep us updated

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

OH Mimz Chuck (& Noot for company) are going to the vet Thursday morning too!! We both have bunnies scaring us! {{Fiver}} {{Mimz}}

[MimzMum]

Oh dear…what’s wrong with Chuck?? ((((Chuck)))))) (& a cuddle for Noot)

[RabbitPam]

Well, it’s Thursday morning here (10AM) but you guys are probably just getting up now.

{{{{{{{{{{Healing vibes for Fiver, Mimzy, and Chuck}}}}}}}}}}}}

mantra for vets: discounts today,discounts today, discounts today

[PEPPA GEORGIE]

Hello, yes i read somewhere that porridge oats help and i gave it to my bunny when he first moved in and had slightly soft poo, the oats soak up some of the excess acid and juices in the gut and so dry it out. It did work and now i give it all the time to help. I read that  this lady said everytime they get a non critical bout of diorrhea she takes pellets away and gives hay and porridge oats untill poo solid again.

hope all be ok poor bunnies xx

[(dig)x(me)x(now)]

Update?

[MimzMum]

Thanks Rachel, sorry to keep you guys hanging… *blush*

He’s doing real good, except for his shed which is outrageous this time around. He is tufty and patchy all over his back. He looks terrible.
The stomach however is much better, as long as he doesn’t get any treats at all. Which kind of makes him sad, but he’s getting extra noserubs to make up for it.
He got a good nail trim from the vet. She mostly just said to be sure he gets plenty of hay and limit his pellets. I really can’t manage more than one leaf of green lettuce per day, it really loosens him up if he has more than one.
And of course, now that he is blowing his coat, Pip & Mimzy are doing the same. I have bunny fur EVERYWHERE. That lint roller technique that Justina suggested seems to be a great idea right now. >.<

[skunklionshow]

Mimz:  Since you are in Alaska, do you have a big problem accessing lots of green leafies?  I’m not sure if that’s affecting him.

We too are going through an evil shed right now.  I think that the weather, warm then cold then warm then cold, is reallly throwing the shed off.  I’m dying from all the fur.  Take care.

[MimzMum]

Thanks, yes, we have pretty iffy produce here…for that matter, it seems all the junk floats to the top (of the world) lolz… But we make do. And I can’t be sure it’s not the well water I have to wash it in either, but really I think the main cause of Fiver’s trouble was going overboard with the treats. >.<
I just posted pix of Mimzy with his odd head shed…they are in the Lounge. I swear I pull off at least five other bunnies when I groom the three of them!
I can’t wait for full on spring. Fresh air, green grass growing outdoors, a safely enclosed run for a few hours of outdoor play! Just the ticket, methinks! ^_^

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