Fern and Thistle Boding- From beginning to end. ***BONDED***

[Moonlight_Wolf]

So this is Fern and Thistle’s bonding thread. (For anyone who didn’t know, I changed Cinder’s name to Thistle)

So when I put Fern and Thistle in pens next to each other Fern seemed calm and collected, she would sometimes ignore him and sometimes she would stick her nose through the pen to sniff at him (don’t worry the pens are spaced apart).

Now Thistle on the other hand was crazy about Fern! He paced back and fourth and chewed at the bars of the cage. No aggression seemed to be showing, I just think he was being horny because he was just neutered a week ago. He also tried to hump my leg when it smelt of Fern, he was actully going crazy about it.

Fern’s reaction to her stunt double was a bit of interested sniffing but no aggression or snuggaling, the same goes for Thistle but he was a little more interested in it than Fern was.

I have not started bonding them yet  but I will once Thistle’s hormones die down.

How long after his neuter do you think I can start bonding Fern and Thistle?

[BinkyBunny]

Though, he will most likely be healed enough a couple of weeks after surgery, you may want to wait longer for his hormones to die down. Do you have stunt double for him? He may need it ESPECIALLY now – he may try to use that instead of being rude to your leg.

I think once you begin to see him become less frantic might be a good time. I know when Jack is frantic, there is just no stopping him.

[Cassi&Charlie]

Wow, I am so far out of the loop that I can’t even see the loop! I’m off to thread hunt…

[Moonlight_Wolf]

Just an Update,
Thistle is doing very well, his hormones seemed to have died down a bit. He sometimes honks, but is not as crazy as he was about Fern.

I plan to start bonding them when we get back from our three day vacation (Thank goodness it is only three days, I would be so worried if it was more than that). So I would probably start bonding them maybe saturday or friday.

Thistle is doing so well with his litter training! I now let him out into his pen without watching him like a hawk! He is locked away at night though.

I still think that the Flop wars the bunnies are having are hilarious. Fern keeps flopping and her flops look so funny.

[BinkyBunny]

Oh, you have to take some photos of those flops!

[Moonlight_Wolf]

OK!
I am about to do Fern and Thistle’s first bonding session, I will post about it later.
Wish me luck!

[Moonlight_Wolf]

So, in my opinion the bonding went pretty well.

The only problem was that Thistle was being a humpy boy. Every time he went near Fern he would want to hump. Should I let him hump? I did let him for a bit but then pushed (more like pulled) him off.

Fern did not seem phased by the humping. At one point she looked like she was falling asleep while he was humping.

The only big incident was when he got all crazy about humping I went to pull him off and I think he nipped Fern (well actually it looked like only her Fur). She of course was unphased (she is such a calm little bun).

I kept them in the tub for about an hour and tried to end on a good note. I pushed them together and petted frantically so he would not hump.

Gah if it was not for the humping it would have gone better but there was no major aggression.

Fern did thump when he approached her in a humpy way, and he actually stopped. And one time when he moved away from her she turned around and growled, but she does that to me and my dog so I knew it was normal.

He did not show aggresion, just humpyness. Will the humping stop do you think or will he turn out to be another Jack?

He looks so weird when humping and he latches on to Fern. She was being molested!

I also used a collander to block, not agressive attacks, but humpy attacks, It worked really well, also Thistle ended up pretty wet because if I saw him about to hump then I would squirt him, If I got him before he got frantic it worked but if he was ‘in the zone’ then he was not affected.

I have a movie but I have to wait for my dad to put it on the comp and then put it on youtube. Sorry the video would have been longer but our camera ran out of memory.

I actually am very happy with the first bonding session, no major aggression, it could have been better but it overall went very well. Fern is such a sweetheart she took all of his humpyness calmly.

So any tips or anything you think I am doing wrong?

[Moonlight_Wolf]

OH and another question. Should I do another session of bonding today? Should I do two sessions per day? Also how do I check for wounds under all Fern’s puffy fur! I can hardly see her skin when the fur is parted! They did not have a major scuffle but I just want to check, just in case.

[Beka27]

I wouldn’t do another session today. Let them chill out overnight and try to do another hour tomorrow. Do one a day for awhile and as they are getting along better, increase it to a couple sessions, or one longer session.

Humping is tricky. It’s not necessarily a bad thing, and not all bunnies take it to the extreme like Jack does. It’s normal when bonding, to a certain degree. As long as you are careful and don’t allow humping the “wrong way” and you pull them away after about 20 seconds or so, things should be okay. The fact that Fern is not becoming aggressive in return is a great sign.

[Moonlight_Wolf]

Ok yea, I was also wondering if I could give them parsley to eat together or if they will fight over the food like dogs do.

[Beka27]

Eating is a great bonding activity. Sometimes they will fight over food, sometimes they get so excited that the food is there that they can co-exist peacefully while they munch. Can you incorporate their veggies time into the bonding session?

[Moonlight_Wolf]

Yes I was planning on giving them parsley (their favorite) during their bonding session.

[Moonlight_Wolf]

Ok second bonding session went great!!!!

Thistle GROOMED Fern!!!

Fern put her head down asking and he groomed her head and in her ear it was so cute and Fern seemed to be enjoying it.

Thistle was a bit humpy and I found out that he nips when he is humping, Fern does not notice because she is so puffy and he does not bite hard but it still makes me nervous. I Once put my hand under his mouth when he was humping and he nipped me instead of Fern. It did not hurt at all so I am not too worried anymore.

She did a couple of mock lunges, I still do not know what it means because she does it to me, my dog, and my mom and it does not seem to be aggressive.

I am so happy that he groomed her!

So any thoughts?

EDIT: Oh and they both flopped from across the bathtub, I think it was a bit of flop wars.

[MooBunnay]

Wow! That is amazing that you had grooming on the second date – that is practically love at first sight That is also a great sign that they both flopped in front of each other, even if it is a flop war, it shows that neither is particularly threatened by the other. I would definitely keep up the bonding sessions, it sounds like it is working because Fern accepted Thistle’s dominant humpiness at the beginning. You are off to a really great start, often grooming doesn’t happen until much later. Good job!

Also, when one bunny is mounting the other, I’ve found that for some reason they will grab onto the fur on the back of the neck, I’m not sure why, but I see this a lot so I think it is pretty normal. So sometimes the submissive one might lose a little fur from that area.

[mrmac]

I’ve been at my bonding for a while now and only recently did we see any kind of grooming! Like MooBunnay said the flopping just shows that they dont feel worried or scared of what the other one is going to do to them, even better! Keep up on the sessions and gradually increase time or frequency. They sound like theyre doing awesome!!!

[Moonlight_Wolf]

Thanks! Yea I am so happy! =D

I hope they will do just as well at today’s bonding session.

Also do you think it is OK that I make the sessions an hour even though they just started bonding?
I am still uploading videos of their first bonding session so you will see it soon.

[Beka27]

An hour is a good length of time. I always did one-hour sessions with my two.

[jerseygirl]

If things are going well, you can always increase the session times, or start to do a few a day. If they start to deterioate, end it. I always tried to settle them and give both simultaneous pets if this happened, just so I could end with them being more calm rather than agitated and holding a grudge.

[Moonlight_Wolf]

Third bonding session:

It went soo well!

Thistle groomed Fern a lot and he still humped but was less frantic about it.

Fern did a few mock lunges when he stopped grooming her and walked away but no biggie. She also did let him know at one point she was a little annoyed with the humping, (or it could have been her complaining that he was not grooming her, even though he did a lot) she did a circle when he was trying to get to her butt to hump it, she made sure her butt was facing away from him.

But I am so happy! They are progressing soooo well!

I think it was almost love at first sight! The only thing they have little tiffs about are if one has parsly and the other doesn’t. The one without parsly tries to steal the parsly from the other and the other keeps turning arount trying to save their parsly, it is quite amusing.

Thistle groomed Fern for the longest time! And he did it more than once! I ended right after he finished grooming her one of the times, so I ended on a really good note.

WOOT! YAY FOR FERN AND THISTLE!

[mrmac]

YAY!!!!! If they keep doing well I would start to increase the time or number of sessions per day, or trying in a little bit larger area like the bathroom floor. YAY FERN AND THISTLE!!!!

[Moonlight_Wolf]

Ok here are videos of Fern and Thistles FIRST bonding session, I watched it and realized that I freaked out way too much, but hey it was the first one I was scared. I also sounded angry because I was stressed. SO disreguard my actions in this film, now I am much more calm and Thistle no longer ends up soaking at the end of the sessions! Oh I felt stupid for freaking out so much, I can’t watch the films because I feel so embarrased! LOL.

The other person is my mom, she filmed for me.

Well enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqtiPaKRBAc&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpx48MKQDE4&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuF6vppYLJs&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4qMpmotvJQ&feature=channel
 

[jerseygirl]

I really like that your Mum is asking questions and your educating! She may just pass this on to others she talks to regarding bunnies.

2 things:

I would allow the humping to happen. It is not necessarily a negative interaction.  Besides for mating it can be a naturally communication between bunnies.  So when Thistle mounts the right way, allow him to hump and observe Fern. Remove him after a short time if he hasn’t left her himself.  If he was hurting her, I think she would let you know about it, she’d be vocal or try throw him off.  To me, she is not overly upset over it. She doesn’t generally seem to fear Thistle. I know, it’s a bit hard to watch your girl being “dominanted” Lol   If Fern was really resistant and turned to stop him, or shows aggression, this is when the approach to hump can escalate into a fight and you need to interceed.  But when it’s like in the video, I don’t think there is any harm in allowing it to happen.  It may just be something that continues in their relationship without issue.

Also, turn your sprayer to jet stream. Then you only have to give one aimed squirt. They’re more likely to feel it and it’s less like a refreshing cool breeze like the mist spray is.  

Edit:  Ok, I wrote all that before I watched the finally video (you question whether you should allow him to do it)  so you’ve already reached this conclusion yourself!  Relax and allow it to happen.   Btw, I had to laugh when your Mum said “Who’s Jack?”  hehe, What?  She doesn’t know?!

[Moonlight_Wolf]

Yea Thanks, I know, I should have let him hump her! But now I am letting him hump her for a couple times at the beginning but then I nudge him away if he tries too much. Yea when I sprayed the water bottle it used to be on stream but I fiddle with things when I am nervous so I fiddled with the water bottle and turned it to spray.

But I can now tell that if he gets a few humps in at the beginning of the date he is less frantic about it for the rest of the date.

Yea I thought that was funny the way I was educating my mom too! Hehe she now knows who Jack is! Normally I address him as Binky Bunny’s bunny.

Today I am going to try place the bunnies in the whole bathroom, do you think I should add a litterbos and some hay now?

[Moonlight_Wolf]

FOURTH BONDING SESSION:

OK So the fourth bonding session went really well, I let them run in the whole bathroom and gave them a litter box. It was not a clean one it was Fern’s, but she did not seem to care. The bonding session was planned to last for two hours but I did not check the time so it actually lasted three.

Thistle groomed Fern a lot again today but was still very humpy.

At one point he lay down next to Fern and Fern looked like she gave him a lick but I am not sure.

The only problem now is the humping! He humps her and then pulls the fur on the back of her neck and she does not like that.

How long does it take for bunnys to stop humping excessively? He honks sometimes before he humps, does that mean it is a hormonal hump rather than a dominance one?

[jerseygirl]

That sounds really good. Fern seems a fairly laid back bunny. I dare say Thistle is still dealing with some hormones since his snip was farily recent.

[Moonlight_Wolf]

Fifth bonding session was not much different than the fourth,

Fern did box Thistle twice but it was ok,

But she also groomed him Twice!

TIP: If you want one bunny to groom the other put them close together and stick the ear of the one who you want to get groomed under the chin of the one that you want to do the grooming. It worked for me for both my bunnies, I find that ears seem to be irresistible for them to groom! But only do this if you are sure that the buns won’t bite each other!

I gave them hay and water and Fern dug all the water out of the bowl so I had to keep the water on the shelf and offer it throughout the session.

Fern is a very laid back bunny, it is so funny, she falls asleep during the bonding sessions! Her eyes were closed once and she started twitching!

She also flopped twice and Thiste took this as a invitation to hump and started honking, I had to shoo him away so he would not hinder her happiness!

Fern started to get annoyed with the humping, she would sometimes try and run away when he started humping her, but he would chase her and then I would squirt him (the power of the water bottle).

I think they are progressing very well! Do you think I should move them to a different area soon?

[Moonlight_Wolf]

Sixth bonding session:

It went good but I was mad because Thistle peed on the floor twice! (why do my bunnies do things in twos)

Is this a signal to Fern or does it show he is not completely litter trained? He is doing really well litter training and has not peed out of the litter box for four days, but then he peed today!

Do you think that it does not really reflect his litter habits, I hope not!

Fern did not groom Thistle today, I think she is too tired to groom him! She is always falling asleep, when he grooms her she sleeps/goes into a trance and when I pet her she does too!

She is so funny! I can do anything with her, and I love the expressions she gives me, sometimes and I can’t resist scooping her up and kissing her to death! HAHA!

THistle seems to like her too, he is always grooming her, and she is always demanding grooms.

During bonding Thistle is either grooming or humping Fern or sulking for being scolded for humping Fern.

Fern is sleeping or demanding grooms!

LOL, well at least they get along.

[Dee]

It sounds like they’re doing great! Ludicris aka BunBun (I call him BunBun all the time now!) and Nelli didn’t groom for at least a month or two. And BunBun, my boy, groomed his wife Nelli first. Nelli didn’t return the favor until they had been married for several months.
Your description of the humping is HILARIOUS- I’m out here laughing hysterically in the living room- my kids n hubby wanna know what’s wrong with me. BunBun had a humping problem too- we went out to find him a girl just 2 weeks after his neuter. He was an animal during the bunny dating sessions- I was mortified. All the ladies were very nice and classy, but all BunBun wanted to do was hump. He latched on to one big white bun and when the bunny bonder tried to detach him, he pulled off a huge hunk of fur. I felt awful but she explained that it was normal behavior, not considered “biting”. You found that out on your own by putting your hand in between them though- brave! Hearing about the water bottle brought back memories of BunBun, soaking wet and in a horny rage, trying to evade me to get to his object of lust. Seeing an animal as cute as a bunny acting like that is just kind of extremely funny and disturbing at the same time.
Anyway, I’ve only bonded my buns but it sounds like yours are behaving very much like my bunnies did- and mine have been very happily married for almost a year now . Your girl Fern might be a bit more assertive than my Nelli, but that’s not a bad thing. Best of luck!

[Deleted User]

Moonlight, I never laughed so hard this past week as when I watched your video and I first saw your gear. I mean, the colendar and that glove. It is really a great idea, but I just didn’t see it coming. And your bunnies seem so good, too. It was a real video moment. It really hit me the weirdness: two rabbits, a bath tub, a colendar and a huge leather glove… Unless you happen to be in the rabbit-bonding club, you wouldn’t have a clue what this was all about.

I got bit when I bonded my two males… but in my back! I was sitting on the floor and everything happened fast….

[Moonlight_Wolf]

Haha yea I know! Hey I got the colander Idea from Binky bunny and it actually was a really good Idea.

I no longer wear thick leather gloves or have the colander in my hand all the time, now the spray bottle is my friend! Also, I feel bad getting thistle wet so sometimes I blow on him instead.

Hmm I might move them to a larger area today, or maybe tomorrow I should. Right now they are bonding in the bathroom.

[Moonlight_Wolf]

Today’s bonding session they did good. I had moved them into a semi neutral area and Thistle was very humpy. Fern would not let him hump though she would run away, but as usual they were not agressive. Thistle groomed Fern but not as often because he REALLY wanted to hump.

I would describe Thistle as the humping monster in this session, he just always wanted to hump and sometimes he would chase her.

Fern, I would describe as the binky machine! She kept doing binkys all over the place, it was really cute! Also sometimes Thistle would try to hump her and instead of running away she would binky away, it was so funny.

I think they are progressing well! I have heard from the other threads that once you move them to a different area you usually take a step backwards so the exra humpyness is normal.

[Moonlight_Wolf]

Their bonding is going really well! Fern finally groomed Thistle properly (for a while and without my encouragement). Thistle’s humping is dieing down, but I know it will start back up when I move them to their permanent enclosure. They also almost cuddled, their front halfs were touching, but I think Fern was in a ‘groom me’ position more than a cuddling position.

So When should I move them into their main enclosure? And once I do that, then how do I tell that they are completely bonded?

Also Thistle is having some peeing problems, when bonding he is not using the litter box, do you think that will go away? He seems to be doing fine in his pen area with the litter training.

I am so Happy that the bonding is going so quickly.

[mrmac]

Have you cleaned their new space? Dexter had some peeing issues when I did my bonding too. Once they go to their new enclosure, you’ll know. Mine never leave eachothers sides anymore, an occasional tiff here and there, but cuddling all day! They groom eachother constantly, and they are always on lookout for the others. It will take a while for their bond to cement but they will kind of show you when their ready. are they in semi-neutral space now?

[Moonlight_Wolf]

Yes they are in a semi neutral area, and I am pretty sure there would be no tiffs in their area because, they really have had NO fights during the whole process so far! Fern does not seem territorial with him at all, (I put her litter box in the semi- neutral territory without cleaning it and she was not territorial about it at all.)

Fern is now grooming Thistle constantly and he is grooming her too, so that makes me happy. The only problem is humping, it flares up when I move them to a new area and after a while it dies down again. Will he always be a humpy boy? Also what if he humps her face when they are bonded and I am not there? Fern does run away when he tries to hump her butt, but not when he humps her face. Heh, well he is humping less now but if I move them again…. Dun Dun DUNNNN.

I think Ill wait to move them until I trust Thistle out of his cage for the whole day, and when I finally take his Litter Training cage out of my room. The litter training and the bonding are moving in sync with each other. I will also wait because I have not been switching their cages either because I did not trust Thistle enough. I think that eventually I will remove his little cage and have them switch enclosures every day. Then I will remove the barrier between the two pens and put one in the X-pen and one in the condo and switch them that way. The only thing I worry about is whether Thistle will pee everywhere!! I want to test him to see if he will pee in a cardboard box, because I want to get the Maze haven for them but I don’t want him peeing on it. One of his nicknames is pee-boy. Haha hopefully his litter training will figure itself out. I am sure it will, just I cannot have a hay box like Fern does, he will pee in it, I found that if there is hay on the ground he will pee on it.

[Moonlight_Wolf]

Thistle and Fern are doing good, really good!
They continue to groom each other and have snuggled together a couple of times.

The only problem is the humping and chasing because Thistle wants to hump!! Will this ever STOP .

Fern does not want Thistle to hump at all yet he still trys and when she runs away he chases for a bit. He is so annoying !

But I might swith their pens for the first time today, I havn’t before because of Thistles litter habits, but he is progressig well.

I might also move the bonding into their own enclosures. What should I do? I clean it and then I remove the barrier and place them in it?
 

[Moonlight_Wolf]

Well, Thistle and Fern are still doing great!

I let them in their main enclosure today and they snuggled and groomed nearly the whole time! This has been such an easy bond! The only problem that I ever had was humpng and now that has seemed to diminish into nothing!

They could be bonded and together now but Thistle is a very bad boy and has pee mania problems. So now I just have to get him litter trained for the condo and I will put them together for good!!

I have had no scuffles throughout the whole process! They have both been so good, I was worried when putting them in thier enclosure together because I was too lazy to clean it first, but they did BETTER in there than they did in the other room!

 

I am so excited, I really need to get a picture of them cuddaling but the camera is still full with a video I took a while ago (I still do not have it on the computer.)

So Bonding Fern and thistle has been a breeze, the only reason I whatched them like a hawk today was because I was afraid of Thistle peeing! The ease of bonding was cancelled out by the hardness of Thistle’s litter training but hopefully that will be solved when they are bonded.

EDIT: he did not pee when they were in their main enclosure together! I have hope!!

[mrmac]

It sounds like they are pretty much there! Dexters peeing issues seemed to stop as well once he was in the big pen and all three were together. Im so glad that their bonding went smoothly!

[jerseygirl]

It sounds really good! I would think Fern’s easy going nature has alot to do with the success – and your diligent supervision of course. If you have a day where you can keep watch, start them out together early and you may be able to continue them together in the condo overnight, since it’s in your bedroom. You’ll find you’ll trust them more and feel ok to come and go in the room without incident.

Maybe continue to work on Thistles training after.  The bond seems close and who knows, he may learn from Ferns good habits. 

[Moonlight_Wolf]

Haha yes, the easy bond probably had something to do with how easy going Fern is and also Thistle’s love for licking things helped them along.
Yea it’s true, he might. But he really is not that bad if I give him time. It seems that if he is in a new area then he wants to mark it, but once he is done “claiming it” he uses the litter box very well.

[Moonlight_Wolf]

Yay! I deceded to let them in the condo and the pen during bonding and NO PEEING ‘yet’ but I am going to let them stay overnight in the pen together and in the morning I will consider them bonded. Is there anything else I should do to solidify the bond? And do you guys feed pellets and greens in the shared bowl between them or a different bowl for each bunny?

Also You know how they say never to separate the Bunnies once they are bonded, well what if I need to clip ones nails (I put them on my bed to clip their nails) is it OK to then separate them for a bit? Also when transporting them to another room, say the bathroom because I want to clean is it OK for that small interval of time that I put one in the bathroom and go to get the other or is there NO SEPARATING at all?

Anything else I should know?

[mrmac]

I would start your overnights and just leave them there! Thats what I did with mine I left them one night and just kept it going! A time period of a couple weeks will cement their bond. Small times apart are fine! Its more of a separating them competely (basically making them single buns again) once they are bonded that isnt great for them. I had to separate mine a little bit more cause I was working with three, trying to get one on one bond with each bun as pairs. Yay for Fern and Thistle! I am so excited for you! This was the most exciting part of my bonding to finally have them TOGETHER!!!!!

[BinkyBunny]

I am so sorry I wasn’t able to get to this sooner. Great job!! I would say that if you leave them together overnight just be somewhere near so you can wake up if some fighting goes on.

And yes, having the separated for a bit isn’t going to cause a problem and later on when they are fully bonded you don’t have to worry about it as much either. I think that just in the beginning when things are new, it’s more strict about how long they are apart as their relationship is still so fragile.

But a nail clip etc should not cause a problem at all.

CONGRATULATIONS. Looked like you and your mom were a great team. Loved the videos.

[Moonlight_Wolf]

Yea Thanks guys! Also I have a question. Mrmac, you said that your bunny had peeing problems during bonding, how long after the bond did those go on? Thistle is still having peeing problems and I know they will go away, but what I want to know is when I will be able to trust him completely?

Thistle is very loud jumping up and down the condo, I see many nights with the fan blaring or me sleeping on the couch coming up. But they are so cute together, their favorite way to lye is with one facing one way and the other the other with one side touching. I will have to get a picture.

Haha last night I did not get much sleep because I was worried that Thistle would pee (he did anyway without me noticing) and because of thistle’s loud jumping! So to combat the tiredness I tried coffee for the first time and …. EWW! it made me feel ill it tasted so bad!

well now all I need to work on is thistle’s peeing issue, he pees in the litterbox but also out of the litterbox if anything new happens.

[mrmac]

Once they were all together, I’d say maybe a week? I kept the pair’s dirty ltterboxes dirty, so he knew it smelled and THIS is where he was SUPPOSED to pee. Every once in a while, I still find a pee spot, but I dont know who it is coming from?! I cant stand coffee either!

[RachelB]

Can you post the links to the videos of your bunnies bonding again? Id love to watch them!!

[Moonlight_Wolf]

Sure, I can do that, I just need to upload it on youtube. Ive been too lazy to do it so far >_<.

[Moonlight_Wolf]

Here are the videos of Fern and Thistle bonding from a while ago. ENJOY!

[Author]

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