Excess cecotropes in adult

[BigJ111]

<p data-xf-p=”1″>Hi, I know there has been many threads about this but all those I could find regarded young bunnies. Miso is over 2 years old. He had a case of GI stasis and was recovering when we got a heatwave that affected him (bad timing)… He eats and drink normally, but in the past few days, he has been producing a lot of cecotropes (some well formed and some mushy) mostly in the afternoon, and just a few at night, while pooping normally the rest of the time.</p>
<p data-xf-p=”1″>I’ve read about stopping pellets and fresh stuff altogether and keep him on hay and water for a bit until it gets back to normal, as it’s clearly a guts imbalance and his diet has never been an issue before, but my concern is that he lost some weight during his GI stasis, and i’m worried that being just with hay he would lose more or at least not gain back the weight he needs to gain back.</p>
<p data-xf-p=”1″>Any advice? Thanks in advance</p>

[Bam]

You could cut back on pellets, without stopping pellets altogether. Its safer to cut back than to stop, unless your bun is a confirmed voracious hay eater. You must keep an eye so he actually does eat a good amount of hay, because you absolutely don’t want any additional weight loss.

A bun thats not used to eating lots of hay can loose weight too rapidly on a hay only diet, because the gut hasn’t had the chance to establish a dense enough population of the microbes needed to break down a lot of hay.  Rabbits are highly dependent on their gut microbes, more so than humans. With a slower weaning off of pellets, the gut gets the time it needs to adjust, provided of course that the bun actually eats the hay.

Sometimes excess cecals means a gut slowdown, specifically of the cecum, and some vets will prescribe a short course of Reglan or cisapride for this.

 

 

[DanaNM]

Your poor bun has been through a tough time.

I agree that you could reduce pellets a bit without stopping them completely. You might also try feeding a variety of hays to help give extra nutrition and help encourage even more hay eating and healthy gut flora. Oat hay can be especially good and would help with his weight loss.

You could also try a probiotic such as bene-bac.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[BigJ111]

Hi, thanks for the feedbacks

He actually has no issue whatsoever eating hay. He does eat a lot of it already, and drink normally. I have now only decreased his pellet portion by half, and included some Protexin pellets (probiotic) that I usually give him in small quantity as a treat.

I have fresh oat grass from the garden and dried one (form our garden as well), but because i saw one of the possible reasons of excess of cecotropes is a too rich diet, I don’t know now if giving him high protein things contribute or not to the problem, as we’ve been giving some oat of course to help him with his weight.

The main issue is in Estonia, as crazy as it sounds, there’s only one vet specialised in ‘exotic animals’, and so bunny expert, and she’s on holiday at the moment so it’s hard to get proper answers. As I explained, my concern is mostly to find the balance between helping his guts and at the same time not mess up with his weight.

[Wick & Fable]

If he is close to a healthy weight, his body will do a decent job maintaining/regulating to his healthy weight even if you reduce pellets slightly. He was obviously not eating as much while going through stasis, so weight loss is natural. Even with reduced pellets, he’s probably still getting enough calories now that he’s recovered to get back to his “normal”.

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[BigJ111]

Yes, during his GI stasis and first part of recovery, he basically didn’t touch a pellet for almost 3 weeks altogether, we were feeding him with syringe for a few days as recommended by our vet. He had a healthy weight before but we don’t know exactly how much he weighed, something around 1.430 kg I think, and when we brought him back to the vet for fluids after his gi stasis, he was at 1.370kg. We just now can feel his spine and hips a bit too much i believe.

[Bam]

It doesnt sound like really alarming weight loss, which is obviously great! As Wick says, even with reduced pellets he should be able to maintain his weight if he is a good hay eater already.

The protein content of oat hay depends on time of harvest. You could perhaps take out some, or most, of the seed heads, because that’s where most of the protein content is. You can save the seed heads and use as treats or when he’s molting and could use some extra protein.

Excess cecotropes is not a veterinary emergency, so it’s ok to try to start dealing with it by tweaking the diet. Protexin rabbit pellets are very good, I have used them for buns with difficult stomachs. They have a certain strain of saccharomyces cerevisiae that has been scientifically shown to be beneficial for rabbits.

It is very good that you’re keeping an eye on the “sharpness” of his spine and hip bones! I weigh my buns on digital kitchen scales, in a kitchen bowl. Allow a variation of 50 to 100 grams for stomach and bladder contents, and I recommend keeping a weight diary. I find it’s just not possible to remember more thana few weeks without notes 😖

It is often very difficult to find a good rabbit vet. Hopefully this is changing as rabbits gain status as pets and family members.

[BigJ111]

yes, the weight loss doesn’t seem dramatic, but because he’s small it feels a bit scary to feel his spine and hips like this. He’s otherwise in good spirit and eats and drinks well, so i’m not alarmed by the situation yet, but of course, this excess of cecotropes is not normal, so trying to help the little guy the best we can.

Regarding the oat, the fresh one is from a new batch planted recently, so it’s really just oat grass, quite short. The dry one was collected a month ago, with seed heads but before it turns yellow. He gets the dry one seldomly, mixed with his regular hay. He got more of the fresh one recently in hope it would help him with getting his weight back, in addition to other high fibre and nutritious things from the garden (endive leaves, purslane, plantain herb, fresh timothy grass, some herbs in small portions as well, blackcurrant and raspberry leaves and so on)

 

[Bam]

I had a bun that small, and I afree its important to keep a close eye on the weight when they’re so tiny. But even a tiny bun can easily have 30 grams of urine in their bladder, so you should allow for that and not be worried.

As as long as the bun doesnt fill up on leafy greens so it interferes with the appetite for hay (and fresh grass), leafy greens are really great. This time of year, fresh grass is safe to give because it’s nowhere near as rich as spring grass. It wears the teeth and contains good fibre, same as hay.

This could still be about the stasis episode he had. It can take a long time (several months) for a bun to make a full recovery from a bad bout of stasis.

We’d be very interested in updates about this. And btw, we do encorage users to bring up topics that have been discussed before. There are always new insights to be had, and rabbit medicine is evolving rapidly.

 

 

[BigJ111]

Update after a week: cutting his pellet portion by half (with protexin making for half of hi current portion) and very limited amount of fresh stuff (always the same 3 things in small portions) seems to help a bit. He’s basically eating a loooot of hay, and drinks quite really nice amount too. Less excess cecotropes globally and they are more intermittent (he even had a day without any excess).

However, there are still some softer poops at random times, among his regular ones. He’s also having some litter issue, peeing a few times outside of his litter (mostly in the evening when he’s on his carpet with his secondary hay stack), while eating hay. As if he was so busy (and distracted?) eating hay that he forgot about going to his litter box.

He’s still not quite himself either yet, not playing as much with his toys as he used to before his GI stasis, not asking for as much petting, and not sleeping 100% relax either, choosing more the loaf position than stretching out or sleeping on his side. But I know it can take many weeks before getting back to his routine and at this point, his guts are clearly no completely set back to normal yet. The vet should be back from holidays this week, so hopefully we can get some input/advice from her about the situation.

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