Elder bun leg falling asleep? Intermittent mobility issues :/

[Meg]

Hi there!

So our beloved Teddy (Lionhead) is turning 13 in the next week!  He’s been doing great overall and we’re so thankful.  But lately he’s been getting a new issue that worries me, and I’d love advice.

The symptom: Teddy’s weaker back leg (from arthritis and spondylosis) seems to fall asleep sometimes (?) when he’s been laying on his side a while.  Not only does he have trouble getting up (kicking repeatedly in a struggle to get his footing), which started happening occasionally maybe a year ago, but he now has temporary but fairly substantial weakness in that leg for a bit afterwards.  I’ve just seen this twice over the past few weeks, but today it’s happened again, worse than before, and I’m nervous.  He can kick his leg and push against my hand with it, but struggles to successfully put weight on it.

When it happened before, he would have trouble getting and staying up for a couple minutes, but once he’d moved around more and/or sat with weak side leaning against something for support, he would go back to normal.  Today, it’s been two hours since I first heard him struggling to get up after a long nap (he usually naps on his side, with his weak side down), and I’ve yet to see him hopping like normal.  I helped him get up and we had a few rounds of him standing for a bit, or leaning against something, and then lying down again and needing help getting up.  Then he hopped across the room but really lopsided, slipping a couple times, because he was not really putting any weight on his weak back leg.  I’ve never seen him do that before.  Now he’s sitting quietly in a hidey house with a plush bunny bolstering his weak side, and I’m hoping that will help. (My guess is that lying down on his weak side makes things worse.)  He ate some of his medicine off a plate, but hasn’t wanted to eat other things in these past 2 hours.  He seems calmer, but I’ll feel better when/if he starts moving and eating normally again.  :/

Background: Teddy was diagnosed with spondylosis several years ago, and has been getting daily meloxicam.  The past year or so I’ve noticed his hips looking a little bit slanted, as his back right leg is a little weaker, but it hasn’t affected his mobility much before now.  I asked our exotics vet about the slant and his leg when he last went in 2.5 months ago, and she wasn’t concerned.  She actually said he was in great shape for his age, and that the meloxicam seemed to have slowed the progression of the spondylosis (and I believe she mentioned there was arthritis too, and that that was likewise not looking bad).  He got basic bloodwork that also looked good, no concerns.  Since then he’s been a strong, expressive, playful, affectionate bunny and a generally good eater.  Just last night he was flinging his hay with extra gusto.  He also ground his teeth for me when I was petting him an hour ago (while he was resting between struggles to get up).  Then I tried massaging his hind leg and hips while he was standing, which I do almost daily these days, and he licked the surfaces around him.

Does anyone have any experience with this kind of thing?  Is there anything I can do to prevent this or to help him?  He has soft beds but doesn’t usually choose to use them.

Thank you so much!!

[Bam]

This is probably due to his spondylitis. I had a dog who got more or less exactly those symptoms. We first noticed when she couldn’t get up on her feet one day.

It let up after an hour so, by which time we were on our way to the vet. After a gazillion tests and exams incl CT scans of hips and lower back, it was concluded that she had spondylitis and disc degeneration L7/S1

Long story not much shorter, she got antiinflammatory meds (NSAID) and gabapentin. She was clearly in pain, which manifested as fast and heavy breathing and unwillingness to move.

Since Teddy is already on antiinflammatory meds, he might benefit from a higher daily dose? Gabapentin can be given as a maintenance painkiller or to curb especially bad episodes of pain.

With my dog, it was important that she kept up daily walks, but no chasing balls or playing with other dogs. She got physiotherapy with water treadmill and cold laser. (Water treadmill is probably not a good option for a bun). We also did massage at home, which she seemed to like (it seems Teddy does too!).

This regimen kept her going for a cpl of great to good quality years more. We even went on a 3 day hike the following summer. With time she became more and more lopsided though, and she’d often drag her right hind paw, so we had to tape it to prevent injury.

All in all, pain and inflammation management was key. What dose meloxicam is Teddy on?

 

 

 

[DanaNM]

I’ve been noticing some of the same symptoms with Bun Jovi. He has good days and bad days… Sometimes when he’s really active one day he seems a bit sore the next day. Even when he’s struggling to get up, he honestly doesn’t seem phased. When I try to help him he thumps at me once he gets up, LOL! He’s such a grumpy grandpa!

Bun Jovi also has an affinity for slippery surfaces, for whatever reason, so I just have to keep everything covered. The sheepette seems to help him get his footing. I think anything you can do to improve traction (in addition to it being soft) should help him move a bit more easily.

I don’t really have any advice because I’ve been wondering what to do for Bun as well. :/ I don’t do daily metacam with him, but I should probably start. He does seem to respond really well to the “old bones mix” that BB sells and he seems less stiff when he’s been getting it regularly. I used to give Myristol to Bertha but Bun Jovi hates it. It is really hard to know what level of intervention to do. The back of my head keeps wondering about EC  since his litter box habits aren’t great and he does have that weakness, but then he has been diagnosed with arthritis in his hips via x-ray, and his pee accidents are all right around his litter box, not randomly around the room.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Meg]

Thank you so much, Bam and DanaNM!  I so appreciate your replies.

Thanks for sharing your experience with your dog, Bam.  Yes, we’ll try giving Teddy more meloxicam (he’s already getting quite a lot, but worth a try!).  He didn’t do well on gabapentin when he was first diagnosed, but we’ll keep it in our back pocket.

Teddy seems pretty calm, and has eaten a little more for me since I last wrote — I’m not 100% sure if he’s in pain or if it’s primarily a weakness thing.  It kind of seems like the latter, but of course it’s hard to tell, especially in bunnies.

I’m so sorry to hear Bun Jovi is in a similar boat sometimes, DanaNM!  That’s tough.  It’s really helpful to hear your experience though.  Yeah, Teddy doesn’t necessarily seem that distressed when he struggles to get up either, though it’s hard for me to watch.  We do have the Sheepette but it’s weird, when he has trouble getting up it doesn’t seem to have all that much to do with traction.  He just keeps kicking sideways on the floor. :/  I even tried offering my hand as a foothold so he could kick against it, but that didn’t work.  I just had to lift his hips up to put his feet on the floor.  (Even so, as of today he will tend to fall down again after a minute if he’s not leaning against something on this weak side.)  In the past, he might struggle like that for a few seconds but once he had regained his footing, he was fine.  Not sure what’s going on now.  I will look into Myristol, though.  What kind did you give?  I can only find canine or equine.  Teddy used to eat Sherwood Joint Support tablets, but stopped liking them a handful of months ago.

Until a few weeks ago, Teddy was hopping up and down the plush pet stairs to the second floor of his cardboard castle most days, and I think this was good for exercise.  (He’s free roam in one room; he’s too shy to venture beyond it.)  Then he started slipping and falling more, unfortunately.  I got a different type of stairs to try to help this, but he’s only tried them once.  I figured the time would eventually come when his hopping up and down stairs would be more dangerous than helpful, and maybe he’s decided that time has come?  He still hops around and just a few days ago did some moderate zoomies, but maybe it’s not the same.  Also, funny you mention the “Old Bones” mix, because that was a treat Teddy use to always get when he went up the stairs.  I need to be more consistent about giving it to him daily now that he’s not doing that.

Yeah, I don’t know what level of intervention is right either — let’s keep comparing notes as we go along?  Of course, I have a rare overnight trip planned for tomorrow (to see my dad for the first time in 2 years).  I really hate to leave Teddy if he’s not better by then, but my partner will be here and he’s really good with him.  Wish us luck — and I wish the same to you and Bun Jovi!

[Bam]

Good luck!

My dog didnt respond well to Gabapentin either -it basically made a zombie out of her -.so we kept that for occasions of extra pain, at 1/8 of the dose originally prescribed.

My bun Vilde was on the maximum dose of Metacam as stated by Medirabbit, for 1.5 years.

(Sorry about editing my original post so many times, but more and more things came to mind after I’d posted it.)

[DanaNM]

For Myristol, I think they started making a rabbit version, but if you can’t find that you can give the equine version. The dose is different between them as the rabbit version is much more concentrated.

I agree it might be time for single level living for Teddy. I took away Bun Jovi’s ramp because I was just too worried he’d fall off of it. He gets these moods where he tries to mount Myra and kept trying to mount her on top of the hidey house, and then would often fall off! Now the hidey house is Myra’s safe zone where he can’t reach her.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Meg]

Thank you so much, Bam!  This is helpful to know, especially with Vilde being Teddy’s doppleganger. 🙂  These days Teddy is actually getting 3mg of meloxicam every 12 hours (I wasn’t exaggerating when I said it was a lot!).  He’s only 3 lbs, so that would be about 2.2 mg/kg, twice a day?  This is what he’s seemed to need according to trial and error, and I read that a rabbit study failed to show harm even at much bigger doses than that (assuming healthy liver/kidneys of course).  I’m not trying to advocate for it, just wanted to answer your question.  Again, not advocating this for others, but with Teddy my feeling is basically that at age 13, my top priority is trying to make his days comfortable and happy.  (And his liver/kidney function is still looking good, thankfully.)

I’m still pretty fuzzy on what is going on, why, and what will help, but I will experiment and report back.  It’s been over 6 hours now and Teddy still can’t stand unassisted, unfortunately. :/  But he’s eating and displaying his normal amount of sass, so that’s a comfort.  We are getting a bunch of rain storms coming in and though the pressure has not fallen much yet, it’s possible the weather is bothering him (I think that’s happened in the past, if my inferences were correct).

[Meg]

p.s. Thank you so much, DanaNM!  That’s very helpful.  Much appreciated!

[Bam]

Drug dosage as a rule has a wide individual span for most drugs. Some drugs, like acetaminophen, have a narrow therapeutic window, meaning it doesnt necessarily take much to reach a toxic level.

My Vilde (1.5 kg) was on 3.75 mg meloxicam per day, divided in 2, 12 hours apart. He got daily ranitine to protect his stomach lining. Nowadays famotidine (Pepcid) is prescribed for that same purpose, since ranitidine was withdrawn in 2019 in the US and the EU.

Prayers that Teddy will be able to stand up again soon! If it is due to his spondylosis/arthritis, it’s about spinal nerves to the extremities getting pinched because of an instable “wiggly” backbone.  Pinched nerves cant propagate signals properly – i e the nerve impulses to the muscles cant come through like they normally would.

Rabbits, like other animals, probably are a lot more sensitive to air presdure changes than we humans are. Rabbits retain a lot of their wildtype traits, much more so than dogs and cats.

 

 

 

 

[Meg]

Oh that totally seems like what it is!  I did notice today (while giving him a backrub) that his backbone seemed much further to the right, toward his weak hip, than normal. I didn’t know if his leg/hip or his backbone itself originated that.  But it does seem very plausible that his nerve could be pinched, especially the more he lays down on that side.  (He was napping on a memory foam bath mat all morning, but still.)  And the other couple times, when it wasn’t as bad, it did seem like he was acting like when a limb “falls asleep” (for similar reasons, I think – from compressed nerves).  Those times it got better quickly, but not today.  I wonder if there’s anything more I can do to help his nerves get un-pinched?  More massage or anything else?

Yes, Teddy used to get ranitidine and now gets famotidine, since we’re in the US.

Thank you so much for all of this, Bam! 🙂

[Bam]

Oh , ‘m glad he gets famotidine! It seems many vets (still) are not aware that longterm meloxicam are likely to cause stomach ulceration.

It is precisely like when a limb falls asleep! We re-aligned our dog (Effi) ‘s spine multiple times per day by gemtly lifting her hind end up with one arm under her belly, right where it joins the fleshy part of the thigh. When her feet landed symmetrically on the floor/ground, she was good to go again.

Memory foam is great, there’s probably nothing better. I also had vet beds for Effi and rag rugs pretty much everywhere (incl the kitchen), because she couldn’t manage slippy floors (like hardwood).

 

[Meg]

Yes, we’re so lucky to have good bunny vets in our area! 🙂

That’s good to know about Effi.  It used to be that way with Teddy but today it seems like a bit of a vicious cycle where his leg doesn’t “wake up” immediately so he has trouble standing, so then he spends a long time lying down on his weak hip, and then it’s asleep more.  And the struggling tires him out, so he does need to rest more, so I don’t want to be bugging him all the time to change positions.  However, whenever he starts to struggle to get up, I wait a few seconds to see if he can do it and then when he can’t, I boost him up in the way you’ve described and then put a plush bunny next to him to lean against.  He’s been able to sit like that for maybe a half hour; then he lies down again.

About an hour ago he was sitting and being pretty sassy, tossing hay around and trying to dig at his blankets.  He also ate a bit, and all that is great.  I was hoping the movement might warm up his leg. I tried more massage till he started to wriggle, in case it meant discomfort. Then I had to pick him up for a butt bath (he’s never had urine scald to my knowledge, but this is his first day of not being fully mobile and I want to prevent it – plus he had poopybutt which he does get periodically) and when we put him back down, he did some somewhat stronger hopping and then seemed to be able to use his weak leg a little more.  Now he’s lying down on it again though.

Yeah, Teddy has never been up for slippery floors, even when he was 3 months old.  His feet are too fluffy!  😉  His late bonded partner, Athena, felt the same way.  So we have well-secured rugs with soft blankets on top in Teddy’s room.

Thank you so much again for all your help!! 🙂

[jerseygirl]

Dear Teddy

im happy to read how he’s been going for his age -aside from this latest development that is.

“Prayers that Teddy will be able to stand up again soon! If it is due to his spondylosis/arthritis, it’s about spinal nerves to the extremities getting pinched because of an instable “wiggly” backbone.  Pinched nerves cant propagate signals properly – i e the nerve impulses to the muscles cant come through like they normally would.”

Very much in agreement with JoBam here.
This seems most probable cause if nothing else presents.

I feel  you all with the intervention balancing act. It’s so hard to know what and how much to do sometimes. I go back and forth on this a lot!

Years ago I remember watching video if an osteopath working on a rabbit. I believe he was a vet that then trained as chiropractics/osteopathy?? Someone with that skill set would be hard to find. Ideally, for an elderly bun with Teddys history, treating at home would be best option wouldn’t it? So I wonder if contacting someone who does this sort of work for some advice on what an owner can do themselves for their rabbit would be helpful?

[Meg]

Aw Kate, so great to hear from you!  Thank you so much for sharing this.  I’ll definitely look around for someone with that kind of training.  Totally agree treating at home would be best!  If I can find someone like that to give me advice/instruction, that would be ideal.  Thank you for this idea!

Unfortunately Teddy is still not back to normal, though the good news is he’s eating well and acting pretty normal otherwise.  He does a little bit of movement on his own — he even hopped into his litterbox and stood there unassisted for a minute! — and he’s hopped a few feet a couple of times today.  But mostly, it’s been like yesterday, needing support to sit/stand, and he still can’t get up on his own once he’s down.

I’m visiting my dad and stepmom who are physicians and I think I’m going to just try asking them if they have any ideas, although they treat humans (may as well ask). I’ll be home again in 24 hours, and I’m so glad because it’s hard being away from Teddy at a time like this.  (Meanwhile my partner is taking great care of him and has set up a live bunnycam for me, and so that he can monitor Teddy from other rooms.)

Teddy was kicking pretty hard two days ago when trying to get up, before I got to him. I wonder if he might have strained something?  He doesn’t act like he’s in pain, but of course hard to tell. I’m just wondering if maybe there’s something that is taking extra time to heal?

Thank you so much again!

[jerseygirl]

“Teddy was kicking pretty hard two days ago when trying to get up, before I got to him. I wonder if he might have strained something?  ”

Absolutely. Especially if you start seeing some small improvements day by day. If there was a strain injury, it might take around 2 weeks to heal, perhaps longer in an older bunny.

[Meg]

Ohhh, that’s good to know — thanks, Kate!!

Teddy does seem to be improving!  Yesterday evening he was sitting/standing a lot more and moving around successfully, with his front legs swiveled to the right a bit to compensate for his right back leg.  (He’s done that a bit today too, though has mostly been napping.) He’s still not putting much weight on that leg, but he’s able to sit on his back legs to wash his face without even being braced against something, so that’s progress too.  He also caught himself when he started to fall over.  He’s still eating pretty well, provided we bring food within reach.

My dad said that for a human, you’d try prednisone to bring down the swelling around the nerve. Has anyone heard anything about bunnies and prednisone?  It was mentioned as part of a treatment for something else on MediRabbit, but isn’t on a medication list with dosages or anything there. I also just ordered him a fresh supply of the CBD oil we’d briefly tried a couple years ago, and haven’t decided yet whether to do that (to bring down the inflammation) or to risk a trip to the vet (a big stressor for him) to possibly get prednisone or something similar?

Thanks again!! 🙂

 

 

[Bam]

I’m glad he seems to be improving, it is consustent with a soft tissue injury from kicking back.

Your father is (obviously!) correct, for a human (or a dog), prednisone would be a great option. Unfortunately rabbits as a species are extremely sensitive to corticosteroids. Corticosteroids should only be given as a very last resort, f ex as a one-time injection in a bad case of e cuniculi. (Which can totally save an e cuniliculi bun’s life).

CBD oil wont hurt, I gave my bun Vilde CBD-oil. I cant say if it helped  because he was on many meds, but it didn’t hurt. I gave him 1-2 drops of human-strenght CBD-oil mixed with his daily CC. Then CBD-oil was suddenly made illegal here, so I couldnt purchase it anymore ☹

NSAIDs (typically meloxicam) are considered the safest anti-inflammatories for rabbits.

[Meg]

Oh this is so helpful to know — thank you so much, Bam!  Then I will try the CBD route first.  I’m so sorry it’s been illegalized where you are!!  That is just senseless. 🙁

I wrote more about this on https://binkybunny.com/forums/topic/how-to-help-our-sweet-little-elderbun-to-live-his-best-life/ but I had stopped CBD a couple of years ago due to concerns that it *could* increase the risk of potentially dangerous side effects from his cisapride.  Our vet didn’t think that was a big concern, though.  I just didn’t resume because I didn’t feel the need was pressing.  At this point, though, it feels like it would be worth a try.  So I will just start out with very small amounts and see how he does.

Really grateful too to know that his behavior sounds consistent with a soft tissue injury.  This evening he’s been on his feet in a compensating pattern like yesterday, standing up and hopping a tiny bit.  He hasn’t been falling over the way he did on Saturday, and that plus getting back some mobility are just such a relief.  Still a ways to go, though!  He seemed to enjoy some massage and then was grinding his teeth with me as I was petting him, and I am so thankful for that.

[Meg]

Teddy turns 13 today — we’re so excited! 🙂 I put a post on the Lounge.

Just to update here, Teddy’s continued to hop around a little with a limp, as I described last time.  Two days ago he got up on his own (!), then yesterday he needed help, and then today he got up on his own again!  He’s been mostly sitting up on his own, and when he does take a nap in the late afternoon my partner and I will take shifts sitting in his room so we can help him up if needed as soon as he tries to get up.  (We want to try to break the cycle in case his kicking during unsuccessful attempts at getting up might disrupt the healing process.)  He doesn’t travel more than a few feet in either direction, so not at all his usual amount of mobility yet, but we understand it could take time if there is an injury.  Happily, he’s still eating well and acting like himself otherwise.  Thank you so much again for your help! 🙂

[jerseygirl]

Aw, that sounds promising. You guys take such special care of him.
Happy Birthday, dear Teddy!

[LBJ10]

I glad to hear that he seems to be doing a little better. Happy birthday Teddy!

[Meg]

Thanks so much to you both!  🙂 🙂

[Meg]

Hi there!  So the good news is Teddy’s still been eating quite well (if anything, more robustly than he had been before this issue started).  But unfortunately he’s still having significant challenges with his legs, and we’re going to bring him to the vet soon.  (We have an appointment for Thursday evening, but are going to call and see if there’s an opening sooner.)

He’s still moving around (just a few feet at a time, not more than 6 feet total range) using a limp — or, for longer distances, more like throwing himself forward while trying not to fall over too much.  Today I was really sad to see that his right front leg, which I’d thought he was keeping at a slightly backward angle on purpose for balance — is now actually stuck in that position.  I picked him up to give him a butt bath, and when I held him under his ribs, his leg could not go straight down – it stayed at a splayed, outward angle.  Poor bun!!  🙁  I think this is more recent (maybe the past week or so?), but I feel so bad that I don’t know exactly when it started, and I don’t know what it is about.  (The silver lining of the butt bath was that things are not looking too bad in that area despite the mobility issues.) Today he had a rougher day, falling over more than usual, and sometimes needing help to get up again.  He’s also just started sometimes sort of turning around in slow counterclockwise circles, like one rotation per minute or two (and then staying still for a while in between), because he has so much trouble supporting himself on his right side.

Despite this, it’s not super clear whether he’s in pain.  (He is still on a LOT of meloxicam.)  He still snuggles and even grinds his teeth in the affectionate way with me sometimes.  Today I did some post-bath grooming and found an area that really needed grooming attention on his right cheek, where it was getting dirty/matted since he can’t wash his face with his right front paw now that it is stuck outward.  So that was very sad too and I’ll pay more attention to it going forward.  But at the same time, he seemed so happy once I started working on that area, he licked my hand for the first time ever!!  The first couple times I thought it was just a reflex or something, but then he repeated it enough to convince me it was on purpose.  So today I am over the moon at the same time that I am heartbroken.  He’s been giving his plush bunny friend a lot of kisses today as well.  He is the sweetest little soul I’ve ever met — I can’t get over it!!

So, it’s great that he’s showing so much appetite and affection.  And he’s still quite feisty — when he falls over and realizes he can’t get up, often the first thing he’ll do is emphatically start tossing or chewing on whatever hay might be within reach.  Still, it’s so hard to watch him struggling to move around, get up, and/or keep a comfortable standing position.  He is my world, and I love him more than I could ever possibly express.  I want him to be comfortable, well, and happy more than anything.

I don’t know what the vet will say, but will keep you posted.  I’ve seen wheelchair setups for buns with issues with their hind legs, but don’t know if there are options to help buns that have issues with one side of their bodies?

Thank you so much as always!

[Bam]

I’m glad to hear he’s eating better!

As for the arm sticking out, could he have dislocated his shoulder? You could try to gently gently near the arm to his side while he is sitting still. Stabilize the shoulderblade with your other fingers at the same time -ever so gently, of course. If its a dislocated shoulder, this could help reposition it. Be extremely gentle, he could have brittle bones because he’s so old.

A rabbit can get a vascular stroke. This is probably more common than previously believed. It can result in one-sided weakness, which in turn can cause a bun to go in circles or sideways, l7ke a crab.

Another possibility for these neurological symptoms would be e cuniculi, which can lie dormant all the bun’s life until the bun is weakened by sth else, in Teddy’s case old age.

I dont know if you’re already familiar with the website Disabled rabbits, but for other readers of this thread it’ worth mentioning it, since it has many tips on how to facilitate life for temporarily or permanently disabled buns: http://www.disabledrabbits.com/

 

 

 

[jerseygirl]

 

So, it’s great that he’s showing so much appetite and affection.  And he’s still quite feisty — when he falls over and realizes he can’t get up, often the first thing he’ll do is emphatically start tossing or chewing on whatever hay might be within reach.

How funny! It’s those little glimpse of bunnitude that make it a tad easier when they’re dealing with some age-related challenges. And how special he started licking your hand. He understands all you’ve been doing for him. I hope all goes well on the vet visit.

i think I know exactly what your talking about with his front legs. I’m currently looking after a bun whose front legs are doing this. One more then the other. She also cannot wash her face although she tries! And she’s discovered some alternative ways to do it.  The vet thinks it’s due to compression on her spine causing some spastic paralysis. It makes wonder if Teddys spondylosis is affecting a new region of the spine. Or his compensating for his recent hind limb weakness cause some change in the thoracic/cervical region on the spine.

EC, as Bam mentioned, is always a consideration too.  I had an experienced rabbit person suggest it for this bun in my care also, even though it’s her front limbs that are affected.

[DanaNM]

I think it’s good the vet is going to take a look, but I’m glad he still seems in good spirits.

I’ve seen some disabled bun set-ups where they put a lot of bolsters around the pen so the bun has something to lean on for balance. If Bun Jovi didn’t have Myra to lean on and help him keep clean I’m sure he would need something like that, because he really can’t clean his face with both paws at once anymore.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Meg]

Thank you all so much!!  It means so much to hear from you all, and I really appreciate it.

I did try to see if I could very very very gently move his leg back into place, but it wouldn’t go easily and I was afraid of hurting him, so I decided to just wait for the vet on that.  It’s very helpful to hear some possible causes for all this — thank you.  I’ll ask our vet. I am pretty overwhelmed at present but wow, disabledrabbits.com has so many great resources — thank you so much.  I’ve started looking through their recommendations for bedding, bathing, massage, etc. and it’s great.  And I was happy to see apparently some wheelchairs do offer front leg support!  It sounds like any wheelchair decisions should be made with our vet, so I’ll see what she has to say.

Thank you so much for your encouraging words, Kate.  I totally agree about these little glimpses of bunnitude.

Yes, Teddy has two pretty dense/firm plush bunnies in the hidey house where he’s been choosing to hang out most of these past few weeks, and he does lean on them sometimes.  Or if he’s having trouble staying up I’ll put one right up next to his right side.  Bolsters all around are also a good idea.  I do feel sad for Teddy that Athena (his bonded partner who passed in 2018) isn’t here to help him out with that and grooming.  She always took such wonderful care of him, and kept his face clean in this authoritative, maternal way that I always found so, so endearing.  The first couple of weeks since this injury/issue, Teddy was actually able to keep his balance somehow to wash his face with both front paws, which I found amazing.  But as of the past week or so, his right one just won’t reach his face anymore.

I so hope the vet will have ideas to help Teddy to get better, although that is not a given.  I guess we’ll just have to wait and see.  I’ll be sure to update once we go in — they turned out to be all booked up today and tomorrow, so we will just have to go on Thursday.  Thank you all so much again, truly.

[Meg]

Hi everyone!  We got to see the vet today and are glad we got to. The good news is there’s nothing acutely wrong — no injury per se, just arthritis/spondylosis and muscle atrophy. She actually said the splayed front leg he has is common in older bunnies and is because after several weeks of holding it out to the side for support, the muscles that pull it in are too weak now (and the muscles holding it out have tightened up). The bad news is there’s not much we can do for this, and it’s progressive.

The vet showed us some exercises we can do to move his joints around every day and help preserve the range of motion that he has for longer, and gave us ear drops to help keep his ears clean (1x-2x a week) since he can’t reach them anymore.  They also did a tear duct flush since he gets gunk in front of his eyes (this has been going on for years). So we’ll introduce daily home spa sessions with him for grooming/hygiene (will also look into the litterbox replacement ideas on disabledrabbits.com) and PT/massage. But basically, all we can do is try to keep him as clean and comfortable as possible.

She did mention there’s a possibility he has an undiagnosed degenerative neurological thing going on, since they’ve seen similar symptoms in bunnies where scans show no arthritis or skeletal issues. She suggested that we might introduce gabapentin in addition to the meloxicam, in case this is happening and he has nerve pain.  But here in the US there’s a controlled-substances law (that applies equally to veterinary contexts, even though the amounts prescribed are too little to affect humans) that means she would have to examine him again in 7 days if we wanted to continue — yet she said it would take at least 14 days for us to be able to tell if it was helping.  (Yet another US law that doesn’t make much sense for patients.)  This is a bummer because he can get stasis after a vet visit and we have to go to a wedding out of town in 2 weeks, so are reluctant to put him through that.  We actually re-read our 2019 forum discussion from when he had tried it before to remind ourselves why we had taken him off gabapentin, and decided not to go for it at this point.  (The side effects were not great for him, and he’s done much better on meloxicam.)

He’s not obviously in pain, so we’ll revisit potentially adding gabapentin or tramadol in the future if that changes.  He is on a ton of meloxicam right now, and she did say we should try to reduce that since it’s over the recommended limit (though from what I read the threshold for harm has not been found in studies), because it could hurt his kidneys and/or stomach. I certainly don’t want to harm him, of course, but I also want to prioritize his being comfortable at this age.  I mentioned that he’s on famotidine and she said we don’t need to increase the dosage, but I didn’t ask specifically to what extent the famotidine will mitigate the concerns she mentioned about potential stomach ulceration.  We can certainly try reducing his dosage, though in the past he’s done worse when we do; but it’s possible that was coincidental/cyclical.  Do you all have any thoughts on this?

The last thing was the RHVD2 vaccine.  He had gotten the first shot a few months ago, so I hoped he could get the second shot now, but they said we had to start over since we’re too far past the 3-week interval (oops – I had not realized it expires).  So he got another shot today but they want him to come back again in 3 weeks (which I’m not super excited about since the trip stresses him out so much). He never goes outdoors, so this would be to protect him from getting the virus from his greens, which we get at the store (and are mostly grown on the west coast).  Apparently there haven’t been studies yet testing the efficacy of the vaccine if the second shot is at a longer interval, so I’m not sure how to weigh whether it’s worth bringing him in for his 3rd/2nd shot.  We’ll see how he does with eating etc. after today’s visit, and whether he needs more care in 3 weeks or how he’s doing.  What do you think?

Thank you so much!!

 

[DanaNM]

Glad you took him in! That sounds like a good plan for his mobility.

In terms of the vaccine, it’s hard to say. It’s so new that they really haven’t done the studies to see how much immunity wanes and what the range of windows can be between the first shot and the booster.

There’s this webinar from medgene that goes over a lot of those questions. It’s kind of long but I found a lot of good info in it, and its a power point so it’s easy to jump around:

She talks about the type of vaccine it is, which has slightly shorter duration of immunity than some other types of vaccines, but they went with that type because it is much safer.

I think the issue would be that the timing of the second dose is such that the immunity from the first dose isn’t totally gone yet, which creates the “booster” effect.

I really can’t say what you should do though! I know I’d be struggling to decide as well. I’m sure that just the two doses you have will provide some immunity, it’s just a question of how long that immunity will last.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Meg]

Oh wow, thank you so much, DanaNM!!  This is awesome and I will check it out for sure.  🙂

I wrote to MedGene last night and they wrote me right back today!  What a pleasant surprise.  Here’s what they said (looks like they shared a slide from this presentation!:
Good morning,
We are including a graph that depicts how the immune system works, in general, for two dose vaccines.
sorry, I tried for a while to add this but kept getting an error saying I am not allowed to add images to this post. I did a Google Lens search and it is the top graph here – they did not include the table, and it’s worth noting all this is in general, not for their vaccine specifically.
As you can see, the initial response from 1st vaccination occurs around 1-2 weeks post-vaccination. This is the timeframe that you do not want to administer the second dose, since the body is still trying to generate the initial response. In general, any time after a minimum of 2 weeks and potentially out to 6-8 weeks is the window for administration of the second dose. If your clients can aim for getting the second dose somewhere between 17-31 days after the initial, there should be no issue. Going on the longer side is better, but keep in mind that immunity is not obtained until about 2 weeks after that second dose.
In this situation, we would recommend a third vaccine in 21 days.
Please let us know if you have any further questions!

[DanaNM]

Yes this is the graph I was thinking of their presentation! glad they were able to give some guidance!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Bam]

This is wonderful vaccine info, thank you both!

It makes perfect sense that this is what’s going on with his motility problems. It’s a relief that no underlying illness (like ec) is suspected! And I know what you mean about the gabapentin. My dog became a zombie on half the dose her vet prescribed. But it’s worth trying (like you have done) -some individuals respond very well. A friend’s elderdog also got gabapentin and became like a young dog again, happy and eager for walks, appetite back to normal.

As for the famotidine, it makes the cells in the stomach wall secrete less acid:

Stomach acid is good and necessary, but NSAIDs like metacam makes the stomach wall less good at protecting itself against the corrosive action of the acid:

Famotidine thus reduces the risk of stomach ulcers in patients that are on NSAIDs. I dont think you need to increase the famotidine dose if you have found one that seems to be working for him?

(I attached the bits of text about famotidine and NSAIDs because I just couldnt find the right words tonight. I’m exhausted after having celebrated my mum on her birthday by helping my brother renovate her balcony 😄).

[Ellie from The Netherlands]

Wow, what a journey you’ve made together with him! I’m in awe of your great care and love for him! 🥰

Just a quick question: is his other leg okay? A friend of mine has a rabbit who also developed problems in one of his legs. Because he favours the other leg there’s been a lot of pressure on the hock. He was developing a sore hock there, and wears a vet wrap sock now. That improved his gait a bit because he has more cushioning.

[Meg]

Wow, thank you so much, Bam!  You are so kind to come and contribute this very helpful info after renovating your mom’s balcony!! Happy birthday to her 🙂

The vet said exactly what you did about gabapentin: that the effects vary a lot by individual. I’m so glad that it’s worked well for your friend’s dog.

I guess I’m not sure exactly how I’d know if Teddy wasn’t getting the right dose of famotidine, but he’s been doing pretty well for the past couple of years (since ranitidine was taken off the shelves here) on the dosage the vet recommended, which is 0.8mg (Teddy is about 3 pounds).  And yes, she said that more would not be better.

Ellie, thank you so much for your extraordinarily kind words!  You are lovely and I really appreciate it.  My partner and I are in absolute awe of Teddy and we feel so lucky to be his humans. 🙂

Good point about other back leg — it’s OK now but the vet said we should keep an eye on his feet.  He does have a bit of bare skin on his soles now which we brought him in for in February, but she says it’s still a ways away from being actual pododermatitis (sore hocks).  But we will keep watch and add a vet wrap sock if necessary.  (I’ve started collecting some of his shedded fur from grooming in case we need it for this later — it’s fairly creepy of me. ;))

Thank you all so much again!  🙂

[Meg]

Hey everyone!  Thank you so much again for your help.  Teddy’s been mostly pretty stable, and seems to enjoy his daily “spa” sessions (of brushing with a baby brush, cleaning eyes and ears with nontoxic wet wipes, ensuring feet are clean, butt baths or wipes as needed, physical therapy, and massage).  We’ve started doing that twice daily as of today.  He also did get a new 2-shot series of the RHDV vaccine over the past month.

The past two days, though, Teddy’s had much more trouble with mobility.  For most of the past two months he’s been mostly able to stand and often able to get up on his own.  But the past two days he’s had a lot more trouble with those things.  His right back leg was generally the weakest, but lately it seems his left back leg gets pretty weak too.  Rather than limping on it as he had been, he’s been doing more just kind of throwing himself forward a little ways, often falling down at the end of it.  If he’ll let me, I try to massage his leg and/or pull his right knee outward (as it gets pretty inverted sometimes from the arthritis), as we do during his spa sessions up on the bed, and sometimes that helps, but sometimes he gets alarmed by it and tries to run away.  Tonight he propelled himself all the way to the far wall of his play area (3 feet further than he usually goes), and fell down on his back, with all his feet stuck in the air. 🙁  I ran over and righted him immediately, but that was hard to watch. 🙁  I’m hoping this is just two bad days in a row and that he will bounce back, but I don’t know.  If not, should we consider getting him a cart/wheelchair?  Only his left front leg currently has both normal strength and normal mobility/position, while his right front leg is splayed out to the side and backwards quite a bit, so I’m not sure how this would work.

He growls at us more when he’s having bad days, if we come over to offer him food or help him up when he’s down.  Have you seen that before?  I figure it’s a self-defense instinct when he’s feeling vulnerable, but I’m not sure what to make of it.

The other concern that I’m keeping an eye on is his intermittent mushy poops.  It’s puzzling — in the past week he’s had 4 days of real doozies, needing a butt bath in the sink, randomly interspersed with 3 days of basically none, just some dry but normal-looking poops lightly stuck to his fur.  I thought it was a sugar issue, and have restricted sugar/starch, that doesn’t seem to correlate.  It could also be that he’s not getting enough fiber, but I don’t know why it would be so dramatically on-and-off from one day to the next.

Thank you so much.  We love him sooo much, and it’s really hard to see him dealing with any suffering.

 

[Bam]

I dont know if a wheelchair would be any good, tbh. When my Effi’s back got really bad we got her a wheel chair. She never managed to use it much, her feet were also pointing at awkward angles and she was dragging one of them. I think wheelchairs are better  for dogs that have dggenerative myelopathy, because that only causes weakness, no pain. There are FB groups for owners of disabled buns, maybe you could ask people there about their wheelchair-experiences?

I think he growls because he feels vulnerable and frustrated. It could also be pain, but I know he is on a very high dose of painkiller.

The tummy issue could ve “just” old age and lack of exercise, if it comes and goes. Sadly many things just dont function properly when an individual gets really old. It’s of course inconvenient and stressful for all of you to have to give him frequent butt baths, but unless its true diarrhea or lots of mucus in the stools it doesnt seem totally abnormal, like. I know some buns have been prescribed metoclopramide (Reglan) for intermittent sticky cecals, it appears to help in some cases.

 

 

[Meg]

Thank you so much, Bam!  I really appreciate your advice.  Did you ever find anything else for Effi to help with standing and/or moving around?  Teddy’s been spending more time lying down (head/shoulders up, back legs down and to the side), I think largely because he gets tired out from the arthritis and sustaining the difficult positions his legs are now in.  I wish I could at least find a better way of supporting him to stand/sit comfortably so he could do more grooming and eating.  I’ve tried rolled towel bumpers and using his plush bunny friends as supports, and that helps some, but it’s not as effective as I’d like.

I just requested to join the Disabled Rabbits FB group — thanks so much for that!

I think you’re right about why he growls.  He only does it when we’re coming close while he’s stuck lying down.  During painful stasis a few years ago he did some teeth chattering for pain, but thankfully that hasn’t returned. (You’re right about the high dose of meloxicam – he’s still on that.)

It’s good to know that his mushy poops might be a part of advanced age.  He’s already on daily cisapride so I worry adding Reglan might be too hard on his tummy (I understand that they can be used together in severe stasis contexts, but I think a vet mentioned that it’s a little bit rough on them?), but I can ask our vet about that.

I actually don’t mind the butt baths too much, and Teddy seems to be getting more used to them as well.  We set it up so the water is already slightly warm before we get him, and the enzymatic shampoo Zymox (in tiny quantities) seems to be beneficial.  We try our best to wet only the parts that really need cleaning, and then we use little microfiber towels to dry him off.  He hates being picked up of course, but he seems to recognize that when he needs a butt bath it helps him feel better.  And I don’t have human kids, but Teddy helps me understand the feeling of “I wouldn’t normally seek this activity out, but for you, anything.”  The joy of helping our beloved bun overrides the gross-out factor.  (Sometimes barely! XD )

Thank you so much!

[Bam]

We never found anything that helped our Effi, sadly. Just the NSAiD, the occasional Gabapentin and several supplements (chondroitine, Glucose amino glukans, msm, rosehip, omega 3 etc).

We decided to let her go after a long week when I could read nothing but pain and bewilderment in her eyes and face. She was a GSD though, so she had fairly long legs and due to lack of stability, she’d topple over sidewise with her hind body. I have films of her from those last two days that I’ve kept so I’ll never have to second guess my decision. I’m afraid we prolonged her suffering because we hoped she’d snap out of it again, like she’d done before. I cant write about it without starting to cry though. She wasnt even 11, so she was a lot younger than Teddy.

I think you are giving Teddy his best life. My bun Bam had a difficult tum, but he came to appreciate butt baths and, especially, the low-heat blow dry after. I put him in a plastic dish basin on the bathroom floor, with lukewarn water in it. He’d stand on his hind legs with his little fore paws on the rim of the basin, while I gently shampooed his rear with mild eco dog shampoo, then scooped up water with my hand to rinse. Since he was standing up and supporting himself, I think he felt in control. That’s (as you know) so important for both animals and humans, to feel somewhat in control of their situation. The blow dries on a low setting, after a thorough microfiber cloth drying, always made him totally relax in my knee. His eyelids would get heavier and heavier and he’d go all limp and just sink into my lap 🥰

I dont have kids either, but my animals have taught me there’s very little you wouldn’t do for the ones you love. It’s not disgusting when you do it for a truly loved one that’s in your care. Sometimes you get very tired, but somehow you always find more energy if you just get some rest.

Reglan (metoclopramide) is not considered a “hard” drug. I asked my vet about this regarding Vilde (aka Teddy’s Doppelganger!)  If the gut has stopped moving alltogether, Reglan can cause pain when the gut starts up again (peristalis). That’s why its as a rule given together with meloxicam  or to a bun that is on a steady dose of meloxicam. Teddy’s gut doesn’ however seem to have come to complete stops.

 

[Meg]

Oh, I’m so sorry, Bam!!  That sounds really hard.  I totally get you about thinking they’ll snap out of it, though.  And to be fair, all the times in the past, you would have been right.  I’ve been thinking the same for Teddy, who really has snapped out of funks over and over in the past (after I’ve gotten all worked up about it being THE END).  It sounds like you truly did your best.

Thank you for telling me about the blow dryer!  We tried that today and I hope it will help Teddy relax too as he gets used to it.  🙂

Teddy can’t stand on his own very securely, so I have to hold/support him, but I do put a grippy towel on the counter for him to “stand” on — putting some of his weight on his feet while I hold him under the ribcage with one hand — while I lather him up or dry him off.  I agree — the more control/autonomy, the better.

Good to know about Reglan as well — thanks!  That makes sense.

I totally feel you about what you’d happily do for the beings you love.  And the backup stores of energy.  I get ridiculously sleepy/nonfunctional when I get too tired, but then if Teddy needs something, my backup energy kicks in and I can do it no problem.  I’ll think of your words and they’ll encourage me.  Thank you!

 

[Bam]

Effi did snap out of it many, many times, so I guess I couldnt know if she’d do that again. So it’s only in retrospect that I have regrets, back when it happened, it felt like I had to try.

I hope Teddy will come to like the blow drying as much as Bam did, but if he prefers just being dried with a towel, that shouldn’t be a problem -esp not in summer when the risk of hypothermia from moist fur is very low.

 

 

[Meg]

Thank you so much!

Yes, you absolutely couldn’t have known.  I do understand your feelings, though.  Bunnies are so wonderful and perfect, it really feels like they deserve *perfect* care, like the kind that an omniscient, omnipotent caregiver could provide.  And while I understand on an abstract level that I’m only human, honestly that doesn’t fully feel OK when I think about how my limitations and shortcomings can affect Teddy.  It really feels like if I can’t have a magic wand that could instantly fix whatever ails him, the least I could do would be to be omniscient and always know what the right thing is for him…

Anyway, all your bunnies have been lucky to have such an earnest and caring human in their lives!

[Meg]

Hey everyone!  I just wanted to add a quick update.  (And on an extra happy note, it’s our bunniversary — 13 years since Teddy came home from the shelter! 🙂

So we did try a cart from dogstogo(dot)net, but unfortunately Teddy never progressed from panicking and trying desperately to squirm out of it, even after a week of practice.  I do highly recommend them if you’re interested, though — they’re made by a super nice couple who wrote me many long, kind emails in our correspondence about how to try to help Teddy, and then offered to refund the cart after it didn’t work out for Teddy, even though there was nothing wrong with the cart.

Then I tried making a bunny “skateboard” with tiny swivel dollies and a rolled-towel cushion, but that too just scared him more than anything else.  :/  So now we are just focusing on trying to find what does work for him: using rolled-towel bumpers more, trying to create supportive bunny “furniture” (again mostly rolled cloths) to help him to sit comfortably, etc.  If anyone has experience with this I’d be grateful to hear it!

We’re also now doing 3x-daily “spa times” (hygiene, PT, and massage) and sometimes just hanging out with him on the bed a bit.  We’re amazed he’s so comfortable with this now (he always hated being up on the bed before) and we are loving the chance to cuddle him more.  He does a ton of licking and tooth purring and seems quite happy and relaxed during these sessions, and it’s just the best.

I’m sad we couldn’t find a good mobility solution, because it’s really hard watching him struggle to travel a couple of feet.  But he seems happy otherwise, and I guess as long as he can sit comfortably and rest OK, that’s enough.  (He used to take full naps, fast asleep on his side with his eyes closed and face twitching softly, but hasn’t done that since his mobility issues began in May — not sure if it’s because he’s not comfortable enough, doesn’t feel safe enough, or if he’s just not that tired since he doesn’t move around much anymore?)

But anyway, as much as I hate to see him struggle at all, this is honestly such a lovely time.  We loooove getting to spend more time with him, help him out, cuddle him more, and have these new ways of connecting with him.  It feels like a true privilege to get to travel this new road with our most beloved bun boy.  It’s hard to watch in some moments, but the bigger feeling is our gratitude at getting to just be together.

Thank you all so much for your support!  🙂

[Wick & Fable]

Thanks so much for the update, and while it is a bummer that he didn’t take to the mobile support options, it sounds like you gave them a good attempt and if things change in the future, you have reliable referrals on what to try again. There’s also nothing wrong with a rabbit who happily receives cuddles more often 🙂 I’m sure he knows how absolutely loved and cared for he is!!

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[LBJ10]

I truly believe that they begin to understand that you’re trying to help them and they stop struggling. After awhile, it’s as if they are like “hey, this isn’t so bad” and they actually start to enjoy it. Blow drying on a low setting does seem to be soothing… as long as the sound doesn’t scare them.

[Meg]

Thank you so much!!  And I totally agree, LBJ – I tried the blow drying on low after a suggestion here and he really does like it!  It also seems to help to try to have his grooming sessions feel as close to bunny grooming as possible.  A baby brush helps, and cleaning crust around his eyes with the wadded up end of a nontoxic wet wipe (we use the Good Wipes rosewater kind) so it feels kind of like a bunny tongue… these kinds of things seem to help him experience the hygiene sessions as grooming, and feel cared for.

Just today though I realized he’s starting to get early signs of urine scald on one side of his undercarriage, and on one leg. 🙁 It’s not red/raw yet, but he is missing fur.  I feel so bad I didn’t notice it earlier!!  I’m pretty sure it’s from his often not being able to get in the right position to pee safely, so we will try helping him adjust position more often.  I gave him a butt bath and was able to clip away some matted fur down there, and his skin is looking better now 8 hours later.  We also started a lanolin cream called Corona ointment that someone had recommended when he had sore hocks (which are now all better, thankfully, though our vet had us not use creams for that) and he seems to appreciate that so far, but we’ll see how it goes.

The main challenge at this point seems to be finding supportive “furniture” for him that can help him to sit comfortably and hopefully absorb pee safely too.  We’re trying different configurations with rolled towels around him and a rolled microfiber cloth between his back legs, but would love any ideas.  Does anyone have experience with that?

[jerseygirl]

I’m glad he’s enjoying being loved on and spa treatment. ☺️
it feels like a gift to us humans when our rabbits are elderly and we’ve limited time with them. Their finally wanting our attention more for them just bringing the food lol.

I saw this with Rumball also. He was a no-touchies type rabbit the majority of his life but after losing vision he’d sit on my lap and really snuggle down. I’m certain my body warmth soothed his elderly bones.

Could you use some of the lanolin cream of his leg also? It might act as barrier cream to prevent urine irritation. It will make fur oily & sticky though. Perhaps bathing the leg is all he needs. Using cornstarch can help clean soothe also but leg would need to be dry first.

The donut pillows are one I recall from disabled rabbit articles. I suppose they can support multiple areas at the same time and they stay put.

I read something a few months ago about a small padded roll being bandaged to a rabbits weak leg but I don’t recall where I saw it. 😫  You may have already tried or talked about this earlier in the thread? Sorry, my memory is really poor these days.

ETA: a lot of rabbits like to prop their upper body on a pillow or bunched up towel (or their bonded mate!). It might be worth trying placing mainly the upper body  on rolled towel or donut pillow to see if supporting that weight helps the weaker posterior. With the upper body somewhat raised, it’s perhaps less effort for them to go to standing position when they want to??

[jerseygirl]

I think I found where I’d seen the leg brace. This HRS article.

Rehabilitation and Movement Therapy for Your Rabbit

Unfortunately it doesn’t show much in regards to that bandage. However, the article itself is fantastic & thorough. I suspect you’ve already pored over it because you’re already doing a lot of what is discussed in the article.

[Meg]

Kate!!  Thank you SO much for all your advice and encouragement, and especially for this fantastic article!!  I had not seen it and I’m so grateful to have it.  Thank you!!

I’m so glad you mentioned the upper body thing.  Teddy’s done this sometimes and he does seem content in that position, but I haven’t been letting him stay there long because I didn’t know if it was OK, if he was stuck, if it would place too much pressure on his hindquarters, etc.  So it’s so good to know that’s something we can do going forward.  And we will order a donut pillow too!  🙂

I was looking at Teddy’s leg more and I actually wonder if that part might be not urine scald but having the fur rub off.  The missing fur is on the inside/top of his leg, going from just above the heel and then up a few inches, but stopping well below the top of his thigh, and I don’t see signs of urine on it.  But he often ends up sitting/lying with his back legs out to the side and that leg downhill, and when he struggles to get up he usually kicks his other leg out over this weaker leg a lot, so it might be from that friction?  Either way, I will try the lanolin cream there too.  It does make his fur more oily which is a little bit of an attractor for hay, but it’s not too bad so far.

Oddly, his sticky poop situation seems to have all but vanished in the past few days, knock on wood!  For the past month or more he’s had a ton of fairly normal-looking but just slightly adhesive poops stuck to his fur all over his back legs etc, which need to be picked/combed out at least twice a day.  They’re not usually mushy, they just stick a little like burrs for some reason.  I don’t know if it’s the different supportive cushioning we’ve been trying or if somehow the lanolin cream makes a difference, but it’s suddenly much better!  (I had to check to make sure he is still pooping, haha, but yes he is!)

Thank you so much again!!  It made me happy to see your name on here 🙂

 

[Meg]

Hey there!  I just wanted to give a quick update.  Teddy’s doing well, all things considered!  😀  His skin/fur is much better after some adjustments.  We did the Corona ointment for a while and his skin did stay intact, but the oily-ness of it got all into his fur and led to more matting and, relatedly or not, his bald patches just kept growing.  So a few weeks ago we took him to the vet who shaved off the mats and gave him a prescription spray to use instead: Vetericyn Plus.

Now he’s growing back fur all over his hindquarters — no more bald patches there!! 😀  We’ve actually stopped needing to spray there (I just brush the new fur with a baby brush to prevent mats, and give him a wet wipe around the area twice daily).  Maybe he’s getting better at peeing away from himself (e.g., on me 😆 ) — he has no signs of urine scald now and he hasn’t needed a butt bath in weeks!  Woohoo!!  😀

He still has a bald patch on his ankle, which I do think is from friction, and the vet didn’t have a suggestion other than the spray.  (She said bunnies tend to hate socks, which is true of Teddy at least.)  But the fur is growing back slowly on his leg (just not the ankle itself).

We’ve been having better luck with bunny furniture too!  Teddy loves his donut pillow (with microfiber towels and Sheepette to line it, which we have to change twice daily) and spends most of the day in that.  We put his feet in the bottom and he seems more comfortable with that slight propping up (and he leans against a plush friend on his weak side). Then he has a little bed in his hidey house that he likes to lay just the top half of his body on at night (it’s true what Kate said about liking his upper body raised).  We also try to pick him up every 6-8 hours if we can for some snuggles and/or spa times, to help him change positions and stay clean.

He’s such a love, and we feel so lucky!  He does teeth-purring often, his appetite is better than it has been for a couple of years, and he gives us lots of licks during spa times. I wouldn’t have predicted he’d be so happy at this stage, but I’m so, soooo grateful that he is.  <3

[Bam]

Oh, how wonderful! 🥰

I looked up Vetericyn Plus, sounds like a great product! Could be very useful for sore hock buns, so thank you very much for this tip!

It’s great to hear he seems so comfortable now!

 

[Meg]

Thank you so much, Bam!  🙂  Yeah, it’s been so great for his issues.  (For others: it’s an antimicrobial saline spray that gels on contact, so it creates a protective barrier, if I understand correctly.  It’s totally nontoxic, so not a problem if they lick it, the vet said.)

In Teddy’s case of sore hocks where there was quite a bit of fur loss and some dark pink spots, but no open sores, FWIW our vet told us not to use any topicals but instead focus on his environment, and that did work for us.  Sheepette (which you all told me about on here) really made the difference there, and his feet are all better now!  🙂

Sheepette (and generic equivalents) is also really helpful to us now for keeping him dry, since it hardly absorbs any moisture, but instead lets it fall through like a sieve.  So with towels below and Sheepette on top, he has the best bet of getting a dry, fluffy surface to hang out on (though we still have to change it out in his one main hangout spot about twice a day as I mentioned, and then in his larger hidey house area once or twice a week).  I’m so grateful for all your kind and generous advice!  🙂

[DanaNM]

This is a lovely update! I’ll have to look into that spray! Myra has some callouses on her heels that I’ve been watching… I wonder if that would be a good option for her?

Yay Teddy!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Meg]

Thanks, Dana!  Yeah, I’m not sure — our vet did discourage us from using anything topical (creams, ointments, sprays) for the skin in a situation with mild/early issues on hocks where there aren’t open sores, for what it’s worth, but to focus on making the environment softer (e.g., Sheepette).  That approach worked for Teddy (although he also does spend a lot less time standing on his feet these days).  But no reason not to ask your great new vet about this for Myra!  🙂

[DanaNM]

I just ordered some memory foam bath mats for her to try to help with the environment thing. I already have sheepette in the pen, but I’m going to try adding the memory foam underneath the spot she likes to sleep the most, as well as a few other areas in the room where she likes to hang out. The trouble is she can chew mats sometimes, so I’m hoping she doesnt try to eat them!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Meg]

Cool, I hope it works out!  🙂

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