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Forum DIET & CARE Detailed description of litter tray preparation

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    • Vienna Blue in France
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      I know there are lots of threads on litter itself, but I haven’t seen one recently which concentrates on how to prepare the litter tray ‘all fresh’ for his/her Royal Highness.  

      I like shredded paper – its free, it’s absorbant and its whiteness is really pretty in the litter tray !!   LOL

      I used to put it directly on top of a few newspapers which would soak up the pee but the smell remained….

      But since I got Henry I am going through sooo much more paper and the weight of the two buns makes the shredded paper sink down faster and so they sit on the pee if I don’t clean it out once a day if not more.

      So I’ve gone down the wooden pellets road, which soaks up brilliantly and absorbs the smell (when they pee IN the tray!!! )

      I still put newspaper underneath it – easier to scoop it all out and chuck it away and old habits die hard – and I still have the shredded paper on the top to provide some sort of springy barrier.

      What do you do….. from base layer up ?  Newspaper directly on the plastic, or laying on the pellets so they don’t move when bun jumps on??

      Do you buns sit directly on the pellets (do they not fly everywhere when bun jumps out?)

      Do you have a base layer or do the pellets sit directly on the plastic ?

      How many people have mesh type grids so buns don’t sit directly on wet areas?

      Is it a special bought mesh, or did you DIY something out of something?

      Does it just lay on the pellets or does it have little legs so it is elevated and bun sits over the pellets, not touching them at all….?

      I’d LOVE a mesh type thing that elevates big bums from sitting in wee. I’ve looked at “cat litter sifters” on amazon but there’s not quite what I’m looking for…. (need high sides for a start)

      = = = = = =

      So  – at the moment, MY SET UP is base layer a thick newspaper, followed by a good thickness of pellets about half an inch thick which remains until all soiled (can’t filter out soiled and unsoiled) following by a thin layer of newspaper, all topped off by a layer of spongy shredded paper. The shredded paper gets flattened very fast and so I top that up twice a day….

      I’m thinking there’s an easier way to do all this… 

      describe your set up 


    • sarahthegemini
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      That’s far more elaborate than what I do  I just put a layer about an inch thick of Carefresh and then put hay at one end of the litter tray. It gets completely dumped out and re-done every morning. Unfortunately it does make a mess when the bunnies jump out but if I use newspaper at the bottom to try and help the carefresh have more grip, the bunnies chew it and I don’t wanna risk them eating it! So, my solution is not perfect 


    • Bam
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      I used to use wood pellets and nothing else, no bottom layer or anything. I’m transitioning to straw pellets because they are softer and Bam seems to like them better. When Bam was new with me I put pieces of old bedsheets on top of newspaper in his boxes because he seemed only to want to pee on fabric, but after about a year Bam didn’t like fabric in his boxes but removed it before he peed and newspaper isn’t absorbing so I switched to wood pellets.

      I scoop out used litter daily. I compost it.


    • pinknfwuffy
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      I use Aspen Supreme wood pellets because I’ve been happy with the moisture and odor control. I also use a litter tray with a grate (it came as a set) which not everyone likes. Some rabbits refuse to use them but Olaf seems happier not sitting in his litter as he is a bit of a neat freak. Since it is a corner box I fold a paper towel in half and use that as a liner and then put a layer of wood pellets over that. I monitor the tray every day, scooping anything major or shaking it a bit to redistribute the dry pellets, but only do a full dump/refill every three days.

      I have this pan in Jumbo with the scatterless grate. I also like it because it can “locK” onto the grids or cage in the back in case your rabbit is a pan flipper.
      http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=17020


    • MyLikeIt
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      I use a regular small cat litter box for my two buns. I put an inch of paper pellets (planning to switch to the wood pellets when I get them delivered). I put a little bit of hay on top. I usually change the box daily.


    • Chelsea
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      I use horse pellets in a large cat litter box with a nice layer of hay on top. Silas refuses to sit on plain litter or a grate, and insists on always having enough hay to strategically cover over his mess. It’s really quite amusing – I swear he’s half cat/half golden retriever stuck in a bunny body.

      Jasper always goes in one corner, leaving the rest of the litter box completely pristine and making a big mound if I don’t frequently scoop it. I don’t think he would care what I did with his litter box. I’m thinking about switching him to a smaller litter box because he uses such a small area it seems super wasteful.


    • Azerane
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      Here’s my process:

      Our litter tray is a cat litter tray. The bottom is a catch tray, the top tray has holes in it for urine to fall through. We use wood horse stall pellet litter.

      In the bottom tray I scatter a scoop of pellets (maybe 1 cup worth), it doesn’t need much.
      Then I add the top tray (it has little legs), I actually put litter in here as well, pretty much just a single pellet layer so that they’re not just sitting on poop.
      That’s it, no hay or paper. I’ve never tried the tray without litter in the top as well, I know I should but for whatever reason I just haven’t. Maybe I’ll try that tomorrow. I’ll take pictures a little later today when I spot clean their tray so that you can see the process and how it changes from before to after. Because it’s not a bunny litter tray thread without pictures of poop!


    • BunnyFriends
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      Just the box then a thick layer of recycled paper pellets. They do sit directly on it, and Licorice is pretty neat. Nothing flies out.

      I don’t worry about wet areas. However, Winter liked to kick the litter out so I used a mesh grid for a while so she wouldn’t. I recently took it off and since then no more litter out of the box!

      It was bought mesh. I had two different ones, one elevated and one not. I preferred the elevated one as it was harder for her to remove it.


    • jerseygirl
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      I think I could do an “Evolution of the Litter Box” thread with the amount of different ones I’ve used. Mostly DIY set-ups.
      I wouldn’t say my current set-up is the most evolved though -lol.

      For my pairs, I use a concrete mixing tub like this:
      http://m.homedepot.com/p/Plasgad-Black-Large-Concrete-Mixing-Tub-887102C/205451585

      I only put a single layer of wood pellets in. The whole thing can get heavy quickly once soiled otherwise.
      Over the pellets I put a mesh screen similar to the ones in the BB store. It’s galvanised mesh.
      Then I just put the hay on top of that. I tip up their hay once or twice a day. When it’s quite soiled, I lift out the screen and dump the stuff on top. Then put on fresh hay.
      If the wood pellets underneath are mostly wet just on the one side, I’ll mix the dry and wet together, or scoop out the wet and top up with some more pellets.

      When the whole lot is soiled I’ll dump it all and start fresh. It all goes into my green waste wheelie bin.

      The wire mesh needs replacing after some time as the welds start break around the edges.

      Last week I picked up a 4-tier plastic shoe rack kit that I’ve used in litterboxes before. The shelves are a plastic grid. I use just that part in the box. Will try add pic later.

      I’m not certain if I want to continue with it though. Maybe if I put the mesh underneath, I can still separate poo from litter and prevent the box from getting too full too quickly.
      I also had to cut part of one grid and zip tie to another to fit across the box. It would be more ideal if the box was wide enough to fit 2 side by side. They can be a pain to clean too.


    • Azerane
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      Ok, you wanted detail, here it is…

      Step 1. Remove tray from condo. Here it is, fresh out of the condo with the hay they’ve dragged in on top. This is just shy of 24 hours for Apollo and Luna

      Step 2, scrape big pieces of hay off of the top (all waste goes into our green waste bin). Here you can see that they pee more at the left end, and poop a bit more in that back right corner.

      Step 3. Remove the top tray and scoop out completely wet areas. Shake the tray thoroughly to sieve the rest of the wet bits through the tray into the bin. Then I shake the tray a different way to gather all the poop at one end and scoop that out to end up with the tray below. A couple of stray poops and unsoiled litter. I push the unsoiled litter down to the left end, so that all the litter gets cycled through in a few changes.

      Step 4 – the catch tray. Scoop out dry clean litter and add it to the top tray. All the rest gets dumped into the bin. I have two catch trays so I just hose out the dirty one and allow it to dry for the following day. You can see the lines from the feet of the top tray in the middle of the litter.

      Step 5. Add a scoop of fresh litter to the clean catch tray, as you can see I don’t use very much, just enough to absorb the urine and you can see how much it swells from the previous image.

      Step 6. Insert the top tray and fill the gaps with litter. It’s hard to see in this image but it’s really only a single layer of pellets that only just covers the tray.

      Step 7. Put the tray back inside the condo before the bunnies decide to pee on the floor.

      Step 8. Insert bunny and wait 24 hours to repeat steps 1-8.

      ETA: No litter gets kicked out of the tray when jumping in/out.


    • Q8bunny
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      LOOOL Love the last step, Azerane

      Since my mother’s visit has put ideas in Chewie’s head, he now has a litterbox in every major room in the house. He loves to just sit in them and chew on hay while thinking about world domination.

      The box in the master bedroom is a medium-sized clear IKEA storage box. http://www.ikea.com/kw/en/catalog/products/40102978/ The one in the guest bedroom is a white high-sided IKEA organizer box. http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/40234709/ The box in the living room is a large cat litter box.

      The bedroom boxes are used less frequently now that his highness enjoys toileting in his living room box (something he never did before my mom visited). So they get a thin layer of newspaper, a medium layer of the purple paper litter (Kaytee Clean and Cozy) and a thin layer of hay for his nibbling pleasure (and to reduce the amount of purple shreds of paper that fly out when he launches). They only get changed when there’s enough waste to require a change.

      The living room box gets half a puppy pee pad folded to fit the bottom of the box, a thin layer of newspaper, and a generous layer of hay. Chewie arranges the hay the way he likes, usually toileting in one long half of the box while snacking in the other. On alternating days I either flip the snacking hay on top of the toilet area to provide a dry surface again and top off the snacking area, or I clean out the box completely. It’s quick and easy to change out (I roll up the mess and put in bin bag, then wipe down box with water/vinegar spray before rebuilding) and there’s very little waste of materials.


    • Vienna Blue in France
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      Brilliant everyone!!! Absolutely brilliant!!!! Az : 10 out of 10!!!! Love it !!!
      I want your litter tray!! Give it to me!! Now!
      Thanks everyone. wow, interesting how everyone does it
      brilliant
      so glad I did the thread

      Did i mention…. BRILLIANT !!! ?


    • Azerane
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      Come and get it… 

      lol, glad I could help


    • Vienna Blue in France
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      I can’t understand what word i’m not putting into amazon uk (or FR) to find a decent litter tray !! There are only really expensive ones (like 50 gbp!)
      The only high sided one I can find is that cost !
      Yours looks high.
      Maybe my pellets fly out because it is a cat litter one with slightly sloping sides…. if they were very square maybe the pellets would boing back inwards rather than “weeeeeee” outwards.

      And, er, Az, NEVER challenge Vienna with something like

      Come and get it

      ….
      I’ll be over in the next couple of years, that’s for sure….


    • Vienna Blue in France
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      OMG – just had a flash of inspiration (wow, I’m exhAUsted now!) !

      My (broken down) stand up fridge-freezer is waiting for its replacement to come…

      Just had an inspirational little look in the freezer part and yes! the drawers are PERFECT size deep litter trays…. OK so only temporary, because they do look like …. freezer drawers and a bit industrial…. but still…. GENIUS !! I’ll post piccie later…


    • Boston's Mama
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      Oakley has been through a few trays in the 5 weeks I’ve had him… first was a cat tray – small and not high sided so didn’t last. Next was a container I cut down but he struggled to get in that. Next was a corner one – but he ate the paper litter I was using at the time!And he wouldn’t eat any hay at all in a hay ball or feeder.So I decided I needed a grilled tray – so I could put hay in his tray ( I hate the idea of him eating hay from a tray without a grill as it would have been sitting in his urine and poop) and I needed the grill to stop him eating litter … so he now has a jumbo scatterless lock and litter. I also switched to wood pellets. I am considering having to change him to a cat box though as he spends a lot of time sleeping on his tray ( eve though he has about 4 other bed set ups in his cage and pen ) on the grill… which I don’t like. But I’m not sure as the grilled one stops him making a mess- keeps his hay free of urine- and stops him eAting the litter …. dunno


    • Gina.Jenny
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      With 8 litter boxes to clean each morning (plus piggies) I need something quick to clean, cheap, and creating minimal waste. I put half a puppy training pad in the base of a clear underbed storage box, partially fill with hay. Each morning, I carry the boxes one by one into the kitchen, lift the top layer of dry still-fit-to-use hay off and pop it down onto a clean half puppy pad. I then roll up the wet hay and poops into the wet training pad and bin it. I then lift the new pad, with yesterdays dry hay, into the empty box, and top up the hay with a fresh layer. All six buns grasped the idea of using the hay boxes as litter trays very easily, and will run to them if playing elsewhere and needing to go. Plus of course lots of pooping gets done in the boxes thanks to the food-in-food-out principal

      Here is Podge, demonstrating how the hay munching side works

      You can see in the back right corner somebun peed quite high in the corner, these boxes are thankfully high enough
      to catch all, and most hay stays in the boxes and off the floor


    • Q8bunny
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      I’ve also noticed that the higher the sides, the more carefully the buns get in and out, and the less scatter there is


    • Vienna Blue in France
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      Freezer drawers in action : ‘available’ and also ‘occupied” (please turn away your eyes…. she’s a lay-dee) 

      Well….  if you ever see a freezer being thrown out – you know what to do now…. 


    • Azerane
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      Freezer drawer is working a real treat Great way to keep your bunnies cool….

      I took the big step today of not adding litter pellets to the top tray when I cleaned out the box. It was due for a complete clean so with a completely empty top tray I decided to leave it that way. Both buns have already been in the box to eat hay, but neither of them did anything. Will be interesting to see how it goes, I have some concerns with them getting pee splashes or pee sitting on the rows of plastic and them sitting in it but we’ll see. A day or two trial will quickly show whether it works or not.


    • Q8bunny
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      That’s one happy-looking Zou


    • vanessa
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      I love seeing/reading about everyone’s litter boxes! I have gone through so many renditions… my current anf favorite – are a medium sold as jumbo in a triangle shape) with a 22×22 puppy pee pad folded into a triangle, then 1 scoop of pellets, the grate, and a thin layer of hay that I top up every day. Next box is the large concrete mixing tub wuth cut sides for my disabled bunny, a XL puppy pee pad, 2 scoops pine pellets, a thin layer of hay, topped up every day. The 3rd box is also a mixing tub, no pee pad, only 3 scoops pine pellets, and a layer of hay. I change the boxes every second day. Every other day I top of the hay in the boxes, and add more pine pellets if needed.


    • Azerane
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      Well, it hasn’t even been 12 hours of my “no litter in the top pan” experiment and I think I’ve already decided it’s not going to work. I can smell the pee from across the room. Phwegh!


    • Vienna Blue in France
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      Az. Lol !!! And it does have such a specific smell doesn’t it ? LOL

      Freezer drawers are working lovely…. however, beginners error, i put it the wrong way around, as the front is not 100% sealed, i had a nice big wee puddle that had leaked through….

      Turn it the other way (on a slight slope) and problem sorted!!!

      Zou has forgotten big time how to wee only in the tray (i caught her red pawed weeing right in front of me, i wasnt sure if it was Z or H) and so I’ve had to reduce their enclosed area to a quarter of the run… ?
      So far so good…


    • Vienna Blue in France
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      Here’s a link to Mary Cotter’s view of what litter to use

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oc51RrXXrmc

      Also – she said “oregano” in the following Rabbit Diet vid – and I don’t think I’ve ever heard it like !!! LOL !!!!! Do all American’s say it like that?

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgchuyJhi6c


    • Azerane
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      ^lol, yes they do. It’s weird right? Hubby says it that way.

      Also, I blame this thread for somebunny peeing outside the litter box today. One day with no litter in the top tray, followed by going back to normal the next day and somebun decides it’s not good enough


    • Vienna Blue in France
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      Az. Oh no !!


    • jerseygirl
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      Lol, Az, Somebun was protesting you messing around with the norm.

      Vienna, great idea with the freezer drawers! Items not marketed as litterboxes honestly make the best litterboxes!

      Zou has forgotten big time how to wee only in the tray (i caught her red pawed weeing right in front of me, i wasnt sure if it was Z or H) and so I’ve had to reduce their enclosed area to a quarter of the run… ?
      So far so good…

      Oh it wouldn’t be that she’s forgotten…

      Maybe my pellets fly out because it is a cat litter one with slightly sloping sides…. if they were very square maybe the pellets would boing back inwards rather than “weeeeeee” outwards.

      Or could it be that you have 2 large rabbits with powerful pellet-flinging hind legs? Seriously though, are the freezer drawers helping with that issue?

      I haven’t watched the video you linked as yet, but already know about the pronunciation of Oregano of which you speak. And Basil is another! I say it “proper”, like Basil from Fawlty Towers. And aluminium is said funny too. They even spell if different. Lol.
      And you Brits say Vitamin funny. Silly duffers.


    • jerseygirl
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      I kinda want to go back to putting a whole newspaper in litterbox and plonking hay on top. It had to be changed way more often, but it was so easy to pick up the whole soiled paper, poo and hay and throw. Then reline the box. But some of my bunners took to digging at the paper and chewing it too. And then the grey feet from newsprint.
      Im considering buying straw (I think it’s called “clean straw”?) putting that on top of paper, then the good hay in racks.


    • Azerane
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      I could never go back to newspaper with a white bun, his little white feet are so beautiful!!


    • jerseygirl
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      Yes, well Ailis – white bunny – is one of the main culprits for digging up wet newspaper and sleeping in litterbox. Hence my hesitation in using it again. 

      I meant to add this pic earlier in the thread. This is the shoe rack shelf thingy that I joined together for litterbox. Only Gooseman and Potamus currently have this in their box. Pretty good grid size for their droppings to…well, drop! They are about 2kg bunnies.

       

      This is the box I use for Timbu. He is a poo-in-one-corner guy. Lol So I cut out the grid in the corner where he goes 99% of the time and only put wood pellets in that back corner.

      Again, this was a tiered-shelving unit. I got it on sale as it had components missing. It was perfect for what I had in mind though. 

      Image result for site:binkybunny.com Autumn's litter   Image result for site:binkybunny.com Autumn's litter


    • jerseygirl
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      Here it is again when I used it for Jersey and Rumball when she was still with us. I used to be able to put a big garbage bag around the whole base as neither chewed it. So that made clean up pretty easy. 

      Image result for site:binkybunny.com Jersey hayrack

      Below is from when I did a DIY hay rack. I spent an entire afternoon rigging that up. Jersey spent 2 minutes pulling all the hay out. And she wasn’t even a hay eater! So basically, it was like a diggy box. 

      Image result for site:binkybunny.com Jersey hayrack


    • Q8bunny
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      Chew’s white feet haven’t changed colour from the newspaper yet

      These shoerack grates are brill!


    • Vienna Blue in France
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      I’m going to keep an eye out in every shop now to find something grill like…
      (I do have heavy duty stand alone shelves in the basement but the depth is about 3 inches and I can’t iamgine being able to clean that very well, in between the little grids…. beurk…)


    • Vienna Blue in France
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      Here’s another link to a litter sifter tray DIY for those, like me, looking for an option….. but you need to be able to use a drill

      http://www.thecatsite.com/t/156138/covered-sifting-litter-box-sized-to-accommodate-a-large-cat


    • BunnyFriends
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      Vienna – I wasn’t aware there was another way to say oregano..? Or maybe I’m just American and that’s what we all think.


    • Brambino
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      Loving this thread – very interesting! I use a large cat litter tray (but Bramble is tiny). Then Megazorb (which is amazing for absorbsion and odour control! And much cheaper than carefresh). Then a layer of hay and a little hay topper. My hay topper is a mix of Bramble leaves, chamomile and roses.


    • Vienna Blue in France
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      BF. Or-ree-gar-no.


    • Vienna Blue in France
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      After “hunting hiiiiigh and loooow” (oo oo ooo oo ooo) I’ve just bought these 2 storage drawer things (well, officially I only bought one because they were stacked, the till lady only scanned it once…. duuurr – I LOVE a bargain! )

      It’s tricky because there are not many plastic boxes without a cross strenghtener (as illustrated by the little cross marks left in Azerane’s pellet mash) – and those that do have very slopey sides (or are very big).

      So although these stack into each other leaving a perfect 2.5 cm gap inside between the bottoms to put the pellets, the bottoms are ‘flimsy’ and so the top box’s bottom is not taught, bends slightly and touches the bottom box’s base.  (are you following?)

      So i’m going to have to find something (washable) to put in the bottom box to prevent the top box from sagging down 2cm when 6kg of fluff is sitting on it…. (any ideas ? )

      Other than that, a good size. These are 35 x 52 cm and 20cm deep which is good.

      I now am going to spend the evening drawing dots with a Sharpie (“other brands available”) on the bottom of one of the boxes and drilling holes as per the catsite link above which seems a perfect solution to getting a sifter tray thingy going for my buns as the litter situation is (still) driving me bananas. They wee so much and it soaks up and soaks through so fast that I always come home to a damp solid matting of pellets and paper and poops which they have obviously been sitting on 

      …. to be continued…     da da DUM !!


    • Vienna Blue in France
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      I suppose you want the photos that I just said i’d attach….  

      Perspective is making “Strainer Drainer & co” look very small or the boxes look very big….

      Right now, where’s the ruler and the marker pen….?


    • Q8bunny
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      Could you get those plastic cups people put on the feet of their beds and sofas to prevent skidding around?


    • Azerane
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      Yes, or even the little plastic or rubber chair tips. Otherwise I can’t think of anything that’s a cross section.


    • Luna's Mom
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      We ended up with a litter pan from petco that you can buy a rim to go around the top or leave it off if you want. I use catspot litter that is made with coconut husk. They ship me 1 bag a month and I scoop out the poop in the morning and before bed and the pee just kind of absorbs in I guess you would say. I do a complete litter change every Wednesday and that’s also when I take everything out and clean everything else too. I keep things cleaned up through the week too. I really like this litter. There is very little tracking from her and there is no smell at all. I can’t say how it would be with more than one bunny, but for having just one I really like this. I first used the paper pellets, they were okay but I felt like she was constantly sitting on poo. With the catspot the poo kind of sinks to the bottom so she is sitting on soft dry litter instead of hard pellets. I tried the wood stove things too because I felt like they would be more economical because I changed out her box everyday with the paper and wood pellets and it just didn’t seem clean. (That could also just be my ocd) She did not like the wood pellets and I think it may have been the pine smell. I didn’t think about trying the pellets with the grate idea though, that could have possibly solved my issue. I’m pretty happy with the catspot but there is always room for improvement, so always looking for new ideas!


    • Juicy
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      I love the freezer drawer upcycle! Doesn’t work for Americans, as most of ours don’t look like that, but now that I know next time I’m abroad I’ll be keen on the side of the road instead of the sights Oh, that is if Demi ever lets me travel again! Anyway, just wanted to put in my two cents about shredded paper — I believe most shredders leave very sharp edges, so I just wanted to recommend my life-changing discovery: the micro shredder! They are a more expensive, we got ours on sale for $55. However, the stuff is SO soft and you’ll see a return on that investment beginning in 2-3 months and then bedding is free for life. 

      If you do go this route, remember the shredder is your investment and to treat it like a baby. Only give it normal printing-type paper or other thin paper, no cardstock or anything too thick. Nothing with glue on it and no staples. To save time, lay out your paper in advance, criss cross it to make picking it up easier and you can just go. One at a time even though the maximum is usually 5 sheets or so. I don’t shred commercial envelopes with the clear plastic address panel.

      I put thicker paper like magazines and fancy junkmail at the bottom of her litter, then put the nice soft shredded bedding on top. We get so much junk and identity-providing stuff in the mail, this really makes it more eco-friendly and safe to dispose of! 

      As the bunny goes, I add a bit more shredded paper on top rather than change it right away, because as Vienna mentioned it compacts a bit. When it comes time to change the litter, I find you need something to peel away the thicker bottom paper, so I just have a collection of sticks from outside to just use once and dispose. No waste! 

      I attached pictures of the setup. Also I took a cue from Pinterest and bought the Ikea VARIERA bag dispenser for hay. I only need to change the fleece every 2-3 months as it doesn’t get very dirty…I just shake off the hay and little papers outside and put it through the wash. Demi’s cage doesn’t close as she has free run of the house, it’s one of those You&Me playpens. It took a while to hit on a setup that was easy and eco-friendly, hope this helps someone!


    • Vienna Blue in France
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      Great photos Juicy – Lucky bun ! I shred paper too, in long spaghettis… but if mine went in the microshredded bits I think they would fly everywhere !!
      I’m trying to cut down to just wood pellets….. am testing it out today with BOTH freezer drawers, one with normal stuff in and one with just wood pellets AND the hay – so we’ll see tmw morning which one they chose overnight.

      Why don’t your freezer drawers look like that ? (or are they the small but really deeeep ones?)


    • Juicy
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      Silly me, Vienna! I forgot to address that point you made. Yes, she does kick out the papers sometimes (she’s usually pretty tidy), but she can’t kick out anything wet with pee, it just doesn’t work. So I have a tiny little dustpan and broom from the dollar (pound?) store which I will use to put it back in the box if I look over and it annoys me…or if I have guests. If I’m too busy, though, I’ll just leave it there as it’s not hurting anyone.

      We have drawers for the refrigerator part — freezer is separate — and they are scary deep like you said! Poor bunny would never find her way out

      Also, I hauled home a terribly heavy bag of pellets for myself in one of my many experiments — and she ATE THEM. Immediately. Copiously. I threw away that very inexpensive but heavy bag the second day. To each bun his or her own, I guess!


    • Vienna Blue in France
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      500 drilled holes later (and two cracks, caused by haste but repaired by glue) and I’m ready !

      So what do I have one of almost every day which I could use in between the boxes (perfect height) and which I can have lots of so can throw away as and when….. drum roll……  milk bottle tops !!!

      So, unashamedly copying Az down to the very last “add a bunny”… (“Anne ‘with an ‘e’ Shirley” said proudly : ‘Imitation is the SINCEREST form of flattery ) here is my first layer (milk bottle tops – blue!) and then second photo second box on top.

      Then follows the putting in position !

      And waiting for the target to approach… in search of THE perfect piece of hay… holding his breath and DIVING to the very bottom !

      I return from work 4 hrs later to this…

      And underneath, this….

      And after a shakey shake of top box, filtering the broken down pellets through the holes, I have this 5 seconds after. Clean dry pellets ready to go again!  

      Right now, I am feeling hesitantly excited…. no poops in there yet (the freezer box in the corner is still preferred for that!)

      OMG Az, I think you may have just changed my life as I know it… because this is what I came home to each lunch and eve.

      It looks a mess and feels a mess…

      I’ve increased their run to half now (with 2 litter boxes) and the peeing has remained IN the boxes (yay!)

      I will keep the two in there for another week and then get down to one litter tray, thereby revealing the area they liked to pee in…. (gulp)… and hope they’ve forgotten

      Hope this helps others looking for a better, easier, cleaner litter tray solution !


    • Vienna Blue in France
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      Ooops – forgot to add this photo of my feline assistant inspecting the marker dots where the holes were to be drilled !

      As you can see, she was not being too energetic about the whole exercise !! 

      and a glimpse of said holes in action….


    • Q8bunny
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      So… you’ve DIYed the world’s largest collander? Congrats. May the bunnies christen it daily


    • Vienna Blue in France
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      Yup – ironic really seeing as my cat is called Sieve !!!!


    • Bam
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      This is the reason you got a cat named Passoire! It’s all making sense now!

      I loved Anne of Green Gables. I was an idiotic child who loved ancient Hollywood movies and ancient chick lit =/


    • Vienna Blue in France
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      “Anne with an e” ROCKS !!!! I love Megan ❤️ (Well 30 years ago, 31 to be exact)
      I still cry each time I see Matthew collapse in the field…..


    • Q8bunny
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      I loved Matthew like he was my own grandpa
      I memorized The Lady of Shalott in high school because of the books and show LOL


    • jerseygirl
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      That looks great V! Good job!
      Umm…Im obviously behind in the news. I didn’t know of this kitty! She looks sweet.

      Is this the one you were hoping will get along with the kitty formerly known as Jess?


    • jerseygirl
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      Posted By bam on 2/01/2017 2:10 PM

      This is the reason you got a cat named Passoire! It’s all making sense now!

      I loved Anne of Green Gables. I was an idiotic child who loved ancient Hollywood movies and ancient chick lit =/

      Not idiotic at all!   I hope that was an autocorrect glitch and you meant something like idealistic child. : )


    • Boston's Mama
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      I’m trying this today ( Oakley was on a jumbo scatterless tray with grill – but the metal grill made me nervous for his feet as he spends a lot of time in his tray )
      It’s like a non slip plasticy mesh … so far he hasn’t attempted to eat it in 5 hours ish – I’ve got paper pellets underneath
      I just removed the poo from ontop and saw under the mesh there is urine so he’s using it fine
      Hopefully it stays that way!


    • Vienna Blue in France
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      That’s a good idea OM, but hey, if he doesn’t start chomping on the rubbery-ness of it (HENRY!! ) then that’s great.

      I’ve found the the top tray’s pellets get ‘shuffled’ into one corner, then it becomes a little mountain and then the wees can’t filter through… so I’ve reduced the pellets in the top tray and POW, like Az, one of the buns not impressed. So has started weeing next to the box…. ggrrrr.

      Have quickly added more pellets and hope they go back in asap


    • Q8bunny
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      Sheesh… buns.
      OM: Oakley makes me want to steal him He can play with Chewie and Podge


    • Vienna Blue in France
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      Q8 Hah !! You could try but I’ve already got him in my pocket !!!


    • Q8bunny
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      And I’ve got your jacket, pocket and all!


    • Boston's Mama
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      Haha guys cute
      And it didn’t work… no eating it but moving it over and eating more pellets… so I brought plastic garden mesh and made a screen – working perfect!


    • Boston's Mama
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      heres a couple of squishable photos for you Vienna and Q8 though
      ( if someone could make the photos show for me please )


    • Q8bunny
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      Mine, mine, mine! *scoops Oakley up and gleefully runs away*


    • Boston's Mama
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      I’m just the same about chewie!
      I’ve been looking around the net to see if I can find a lionhead breeder here but no luck


    • sarahthegemini
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      Personally I think Oakley would get along swimmingly with my two….just sayin’ 


    • Q8bunny
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      Wouldn’t it be cool if buns could do brief exchanges, like high school students?


    • Boston's Mama
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      I’m actually not sure … I’m thinking maybe we don’t have that ban as I think ( would have to find it again ) I saw on a breeders page they imported a new bunnies for their lines ( not lionheads though)
      I’d have to look into it


    • Boston's Mama
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      I just looked it up – can import rabbits from australia only ( with all the appropriate vet docs , microchipped etc )


    • Azerane
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      Well that would explain why you can’t get lionheads then. Such a shame.


    • Vienna Blue in France
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      Posted By Q8bunny on 2/07/2017 9:15 PM

      Wouldn’t it be cool if buns could do brief exchanges, like high school students?

      I didn’t know that bunnies wore underwear…. 


    • Boston's Mama
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      Hahahahhaahaha!!!!!


    • Q8bunny
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      Smartass!


    • Vienna Blue in France
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      Either i’m not doing it right or your buns don’t wee… or dig… or go out of the litter box when it suits them 

      Henry digs the pellets into one corner, and then the pellets get weed on and “lump” up and so don’t let any wee through, which then doesn’t filter through and so nothing is really better than before.

      The pellets in the underneath tray seem to soak up after half a day and so when I come to do daily changes, its twice as bad… and putting more pellets in wouldn’t really solve the problem by making it easier !

      Photos…

      I only put in one exceedingly thin layer of pellets in now… but when they’re all bunched up in one corner….

      After 2/3 of a day…… all bottom pellets are soaked up…

      Any ideas ?


    • Wick
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      Hi Vienna! First, reading through everyone’s different litter box preps is very interesting!

      To facilitate doing business in a box (not being lazy to get to one and just doing it where he pleases), Wick has 3 litter boxes: one in his hutch (bedroom), one in the living room and one in his living room pen. The preparation for all three is the same.

      Litter box choice: High sides was a must. Rabbits tend to back up to pee, so anything without high walls won’t really catch that many pees. All Wick’s boxes have high walls with a small lip wall so he can go inside (though he can climb in by gripping on the top of the high walls and jumping). To catch any potential pees over the small lip, I cut up and use a portion of a chux— which is something used in hospitals traditionally for people who are incontinent, so it’s specifically designed to hold and trap urine. It’s thin, cheap, and easy to replace. Nowadays, Wick knows the phrase “Butt in”. Whenever he’d go into the box and not have his butt facing a high wall, I’d say Butt In and nudge him closer in. I don’t think he understands the purpose, but he gets it so the chux is not replaced very often.

      Inside the litter box: it is filled with small granule paper pellets (Kaytee brand; A+, love it). There’s enough to cover the entire bottom and it rises about a half-inch I’d say. I didn’t realize not many people filled their litter boxes this much. To prevent litter from getting everywhere, there is 7-count plastic mesh on top of the litter box (I got a color that matches the litter for aesthetics, haha). “7-count plastic mesh” and other plastic meshes are used for knitting. The number dictates how many squares are in one-inch of the sheet. 7-count is small enough so litter does not pass through, but big enough that urine passes with ease and it’s breathable. The mesh is flexible but sturdy, and when cut (very easy to do with scissors), they are not sharp, so you can customize it to fit any box perfectly. I actually cut some strips of it to use as fasteners if I need to hold hay-racks more securely on Wick’s pen. There is a cut-plastic mesh on top of every litter box, covering the entire thing. Then, in one corner, I put down hay. (just one corner, not the entire box).

      For cleaning, the poop is easy to get because it’s just sitting on the mesh, so I scoop it up, or take the entire mesh up and dump into the trashcan. For pee, I lift up the mesh and use a scooper to get out the wet portions, and refill as necessary.

      As a small aside, Wick gets a small (half a cap-full) of “from the mother” apple cider vinegar, it’s called (Heintz brand). This isn’t bad for him (potentiates healthy gut bacteria, not kills/disturbs it), but the acidity of the vinegar nullifies the ammonia in pee, making Wick’s pee odorless. I’ve never smelled his pee… really ever.

      I hope this was helpful!

      The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.


    • Vienna Blue in France
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      That’s great detail Wick, thanks !
      I’d read about putting cider vinegar in dogs’ water bowls.

      (though he can climb in by gripping on the top of the high walls and jumping)

      This made me smile…. so cute, mine weigh 5-6 kg and are 80cm long, so they have no problem getting in and out of anywhere !!

      I might try the knitting mesh – although I don’t hold out much hope for its longevity with Henry’s digging I’ll try anything. :rolleyes;


    • vanessa
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      Wick – how much water with that vinegar? I make kombucha vinegar. Talk about a mother…


    • Wick
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      Vienna –

      I was very surprised that he would attempt the jump, but all rabbits are so food-oriented, so he does what he needs to do if I’m blocking the entrance, haha. I don’t know if he’d be as zealous to jump in for pooping/peeing. Wick is not a digger, but if you have it fit nicely on the litter box, it should do a good job at holding steady if he shifts it in any way.

      vanessa –

      I am not familiar with that type of vinegar, so I’d do a bit of diggin’ and vet consulting. For the raw apple cider vinegar, I do about a cap full from the Heinz bottle for a bowl that holds 1.25c of water. If you google Heinz mother apple cider, you can see how small the cap is. I don’t really measure it; I just eye-ball a very, very small amount to a large amount of water. The water shouldn’t smell like the vinegar (at least from a short distance. I haven’t stuck my nose in it or anything, haha). Even a little bit (but more than just a few drops) makes a huge difference. And FYI, my vet does know I do this with Wick, and she says it’s fine if he’s fine with it. Wick goes through a lot of medication treatment, he’s an underdeveloped runt at 3mo old, and he has respiratory issues, so if he can survive apple cider vinegar from the mother in his water, I imagine other rabbits would fair well too.

      The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.


    • vanessa
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      That works out to 2 Tbsp per gallon, which is exactly what I’ve read. I used to give my rabbits vinegar in their water, but it’s been a while and I totally forgot about it. I think it’s a great idea. I like using mother/vinegar myself. I think it improves my overall health. I have never caught a flu since I started drinking kombucha tea, which is 3 on the pH scale. Kombucha vinegar is made from Kombucha tea. Vinegar can be made from a nunber of things – apples, wine, barley, anything with a sugar content. The apple, tea, wine, or whatever else it was made from – is what gives it flavor and color. It’s the oxygenated bacteria and yeast environment that turn it into vinegar. Kombucha tea uses about 1 teabag per 3 cups of water, and it doesn’t have to be caffeinated tea. It can be rooibos – which doesn’t have caffeine. If you leave the yeast/bacteria culture in the tea, it turns into vinegar. White vinegar is made from any number of grain poducts and then distilled to a white color. It is interesting to read about how different types of vinegar are made. There aren’t any scientific studies on which type of vinegar is best for bunnies – it’s really the pH, and the nutrient profile of the mother, that make vinegar so good. Not that I’m advocating tea vinegar for bunnies… I do think that vinegar for bunnies should be made from something that I would be willing to feed them in it’s natural form.


    • Azerane
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      To be fair, you do have two very big bunnies who I’m sure do very big pees!

      In terms of drainage, I would suggest raising the upper tray a little, as in use something taller than bottle caps, that may help with drainage. I find that after 24 hours, only 3/4 of my tray/pellets are wet underneath but again, my buns are half your size.

      I’m afraid I don’t have a solution to the digging/bunching up pellet problem. My pair don’t do that.

      Granted, Apollo does go out the litter box when it suits him He can be lazy sometimes (but only once a week or so).


    • Yoyo
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      Am I reading wrong, or,.. am I really the only one who uses clay pellets? .. O.o I read a lot about how most use wood pellets,.. newspaper, hay, and kitty litter ( which, is a form of clay litter)…. I use the clay pellets,.. and a big, high back triangle pan, with a bread tie to the wire bar in x pen,.. I change it every other day, and,.. its super effective – zero odor, bun happily uses it, 100 % of time.. I couldn’t be happier lol! .. well,.. unless u guys have a better cost effective way, that I need some tips on lol


    • Vienna Blue in France
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      Granted, Apollo does go out the litter box when it suits him

      Really? That’s interesting – have you made a connection with a ‘full’ litter tray that he’d thought passed it for Sir Apollo to use ?

      Yes, I think they do do biiiiiiiig pees. I’m checking out some Flemmie sites for tips….

      It doesn’t make me want to make a lovely condo for them if one is peeing regularly outside the box (I think it’s “her” majesty, not both, but you never know….)


    • vanessa
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      I’d personally stay away from kitty litter and any clay litter… I’v heard dangerous things about clumping litter. I don’t know enough abut clay litter.


    • Yoyo
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      Posted By Yoyo on 2/24/2017 2:30 AM

      Am I reading wrong, or,.. am I really the only one who uses clay pellets? .. O.o I read a lot about how most use wood pellets,.. newspaper, hay, and kitty litter ( which, is a form of clay litter)…. I use the clay pellets,.. and a big, high back triangle pan, with a bread tie to the wire bar in x pen,.. I change it every other day, and,.. its super effective – zero odor, bun happily uses it, 100 % of time.. I couldn’t be happier lol! .. well,.. unless u guys have a better cost effective way, that I need some tips on lol

      — ETA,.. I feel like a doofus,.. I rechecked the bag of litter that I use, and… its not clay at all lol… I had just assumed that it was, by sight of it.. its actually compressed paper pellets,.. not a biggie, but, I felt compelled to correct myself.. Its pretty good stuff tho, and, would recommend it to anyone, as long as they are diligent about changing it out frequently!

      – sorry for my original mix-up!


    • Vienna Blue in France
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      Came down to a clean pen!!!! With a change of place of the cardboard box and raised litter trays.
      So was really chuffed with the buns for that (although NOT wih Henry who has been hyper since 4am…) and then i find somePUSS has weed outside their box !!!!!!!

      What is this? A furball pee conspiracy??????


    • Azerane
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      Posted By Vienna Blue in France on 2/24/2017 7:43 AM 

      Really? That’s interesting – have you made a connection with a ‘full’ litter tray that he’d thought passed it for Sir Apollo to use ?

      Well I thought that I had, until a few days ago when I changed the litter tray and an hour later there was a big pee right next to the box, lol. The only place he ever pees outside the box is right next to it though, so I have to assume it’s just laziness since he can reach the hay from next to the box, something which I might have to remedy in order to fix the problem. But I’m really not sure what the catalyst is since I never actually see him do it, but I’m sure it is him.


    • Vienna Blue in France
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      Guilty until proved innocent !! Apparently !!! LOL Pooooor Apollo


    • Vienna Blue in France
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      Taking advantage of my trip to the UK next weekend, i’ve ordered some (15kg!!!) “megazorb” litter which has fab reviews – I wonder if these reviews come from 6kg-bunny parents ?…. we’ll see.

      The raised double litter tray is working well to prevent wet feet, but the smelly poos (yes smelly!) which remain in the ’empty-ish’ top tray, emit a killer stink when pooped out before they dry. Henry is also still digging ferociously in the trays hoping to travel down and see his cousins Apollo, Luna and Jersey’s gang !

      Maybe a layer of cheap hay will help in the top tray, but I don’t want to prevent the pee from filtering down.

      i’ll report back with the Vienna megazorb review !


    • Limit
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      Posted By Vienna Blue in France on 3/09/2017 6:42 AM
      Taking advantage of my trip to the UK next weekend, i’ve ordered some (15kg!!!) “megazorb” litter which has fab reviews – I wonder if these reviews come from 6kg-bunny parents ?…. we’ll see.

      The raised double litter tray is working well to prevent wet feet, but the smelly poos (yes smelly!) which remain in the ’empty-ish’ top tray, emit a killer stink when pooped out before they dry. Henry is also still digging ferociously in the trays hoping to travel down and see his cousins Apollo, Luna and Jersey’s gang !

      Maybe a layer of cheap hay will help in the top tray, but I don’t want to prevent the pee from filtering down.

      i’ll report back with the Vienna megazorb review !

      6+ kg bun owner with megazorb here Works well for my two and is easily cleaned


    • vanessa
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      I like using hay on top. It doesn’t prevent pee from filtering down – I think it allows the pee to filter down and helps keep bunnies feet dry. I’ll have to google this megazorb…


    • Vienna Blue in France
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      6+ kg bun owner with megazorb here

      I KNOW !! I got the idea from you !!!
      (I’m down in Hove on Friday – so if it doesn’t work – I’ll hunt you down !!! ) (just kidding!)


    • Limit
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      I’ll hunt you down

      Better get my guard bunnies ready!


    • Vienna Blue in France
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      Laaaaadies and Geeeeeentleman ( ), welcome to the battle of the litters.

      ON my LEFT is a one inch complete covering of Megazorb – £17 for 85 litres, currently using a third of packet so far after one week.

      Light and fluffy white colouring flakes – slight odour to it – not particularly nice but not horrible either.

      ON my RIGHT –  a sparse covering of wooden stove pellets – £3 for a bag (a quarter of the volume of the megazorb bag) which will probably last a month….

      These will lay in the bottom of a double layer litter tray (the buns don’t stand directly in these products)

      After one night of serious training, endurance and in-depth testing…. below is the photo of the ‘morning after’… (I did turn it around half way, so they both had equal pee quantities…. )

      The Megazorb does not change in appearance, quite strange really having got used to the swelling and mushiness of the pellets ‘post-pee’. It’s only on touch (and OK I suppose a slight change in the whiteness which goes a tad greyer) you realise it’s been peed on. The wood pellets, true to form, got wet, swelled and were quite obvious at a glance that they had been peed on !

      Both smell a bit “woody”. The megazorb keeps its strange smell. Personally I prefer the pellet ‘WOOD’ smell.

      On closer inspection the Megazord should have had a thicker coating – there were bits of pee non-absorbed and so swished about when I moved the litter tray. You can see it in the bottom of the photo pooling around where I removed the milk bottle top, which elevates the top litter tray.

      CONCLUSIONS  – Hmmm. Well I can’t get Megazorb here in France and it’s not won me over sufficiently (financially nor efficience) to bring months of supplies back over when I visit the UK.

      I reckon Megazorb would come out to be more expensive, it takes up heaps more room to stock (but much lighter than the pellets) and smells less woody than the pellets. It is light and fluffy so goes everywhere when i stick the trowel in the bag to get it out – and need about 5-6 trowels worth to fill the litter tray.

      The pellets are readily available and cheap – yes the small, solid bags are HEAVY to transport, but take up much less room to stock for the same timeframe. A few scatterings of pellets in the litter tray suffices (one or two hand fulls) and there is less mess in the house, depotting from bag to litter tray.

      I “think” (nothing scientifically tested yet) the Megazorb maaay hold out for a day longer than the pellets before needing dire changing, but maybe that it also as I only scatter a few dozen pellets in the tray for a 24 hr period…


    • Boston's Mama
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      Nice to see your trial played out thanks
      I contemplated changing types of litter again but I had no luck last attempts and your explainations above do make it better for me to stay with the wood pellets ( although here the price Saving isn’t that great as a 7lb bag is $19ish )

      I did however change trays. I attempted the sifting cat litter trays but having the poop not fall through the gaps was no good for my boys as it ended up smeared all over them – more so when Oakley’s tummy plays up but still some all the time
      So I attempted a normal cat tray with a garden mesh grill I made – that works for keeping the poo away as the mesh fitted it through – but Boston didn’t like the flexibility in the mesh when he stood on it

      So I returned to my original tray – ware scatterless jumbo xl size tray – it has a grill , no litter gets dragged around , high sides , and for bunnies under 4lbs they fit without any trouble
      So it works for my holland lops


    • Limit
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      Aw no, shame it didn’t work for you! Certainly works for mine but then it obviously won’t work for everyone Mine cost £10 from where I get it from (hayexperts) and is delivered, hence why I go for it… I know I’m lazy… I guess I assumed your bunnies stood on it as mine do, can’t use any wiring for them oh no not these buns, sore hocks will flare- typical.

      My guys have x2 medium dog beds and a huge 140cm bottom tray of a cage as their litter trays – I swear to god these take up so much room and they act like they don’t fit in them… I once saw Monte half in half out the cheeky sod.


    • Vienna Blue in France
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      Having now finished the huuge megazorb bag and gone back to wood pellets for the past 2 days – OMG, pure bliss…. I can scoop the pellets out of the bag without the light slithers of megazorb going everywhere, the smell is better and the biggest thing is that the urine (peed in corner) passes through the pellets by osmosis (into the middle of the litter tray) so never collects and puddles, which it did with the megazorb which for whatever reason didn’t absorb any further along the tray. So when I scoop it out, it just comes easily in its swollen state without dribbling.

      I’ve now worked out for the big buns to put down a near-layer of pellets rather than just a sprinkling and it seems perfick for now. #happybunnymummywhenbunsdontpeeoutsidebox_grrrrrr

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Forum DIET & CARE Detailed description of litter tray preparation