Bungled Bonding Updates

[HipHopBunny]

Update on bonding: Semi-neutral territory. They are in different pens, in a different spot now. I have been letting all of them out at the same time, and Silver and OB are getting along great, flopping next to each other, but when Smokey comes over, they chase her away. Now Smokey is avoiding them, and when they chase her, she takes refuge in the litter box. Should I take a step back and go back to neutral? If so, can I still let OB and Silver out at the same time?

[DanaNM]

I think I would go back to neutral for the actual bonding sessions. You don’t want that negative dynamic to get entrenched. But if OB and Silver are OK together, I think it would be OK to let them roam together as long as they are supervised.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[HipHopBunny]

Thank you for the response. 🙂 I just let them all out yesterday evening to see if they would still be mean to Smokey, and they actually got along decently. They flopped, and they groomed, so now I’m not sure about where to take them. If only they weren’t so black and white! (and grey 😛 )

[DanaNM]

Haha that’s good! Sometimes they just need some time to adjust to new spaces. You could also try making the new space smaller if they act up again. Sometimes too much space too fast can cause issues.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[HipHopBunny]

Good point. They haven’t been in this room before, so it is all new to them. I minimized their space a bit more, and so far so good. 🙂 Will keep you posted!

[Louiethebunny]

Any progress is awesome! Wishes for happy bond mates!

[HipHopBunny]

Update: Still Semi-neutral due to hoomin’s stubborn pride and false notoriety that she can do this. So, they have still been really on and off. One moment they can all be flopped next to each other, the next Silver bites one of their butts, and well, they ignore each other. Smokey is not a problem, they just chase her away, and she is the KINDEST one of them all. OB and Silver sometimes get along, sometimes they don’t. They get along better than they get along with Smokey though.

Dominance is not the issue. Well, sort of not the issue. They all have it figured out, Silver is the top, if she asks for grooms, you give them to her, or get your butt nipped. OB can bite Smokey,  and Smokey can not do anything to the other two. I have seen all of them groom each other, flop next to each other, and I have seen them nip each other. *Sigh* they can never make up their mind to be bonded or not. *Holding head in hands, quietly weeping*…

Thank you in advance!

[Hazel]

Well, they’re all girls, maybe some cattiness is just part of the deal? 😉  They act bonded at least part of the time, so that’s encouraging. I think maybe they just need a little more time to feel certain about their position in the “pack” and then they won’t feel the need to assert themselves as much anymore (especially Silver).

Keep at it, you’re doing great! 🙂

Also, this thread has no pictures. Must be a technical problem, I know you know posting bonding threads without pictures is a bannable offense.

[HipHopBunny]

Hazel: LOL! 😆 I was bound to be caught by my lack of pictures sometime, and it has been haunting me! 😆 I can never get a good one though! (Well of all three of them, Smokey has been a good poser lately…) Smokey isn’t catty! Silver, definitely, OB, sometimes, but Smokey’s a total sweetheart! (Maybe she is behind my back and I just haven’t seen it. LOL) It’s hard to imagine her as a little stinker though. 😉

Could be them figuring out their place in the pack, they seem to be pretty settled and content with their places though. It is encouraging that around 1/2 of the time they are okay with each other. I will keep you all posted, and fingers crossed for a trio soon!

[Louiethebunny]

Sending luck your way… Louie and Lola are sending their bonding luck to you… and agree with Hazel, no photos is a severe offense.

[HipHopBunny]

Update: So… their bonding is going… what words do I use… down the drain a bit. When I took them into semi-neutral, Silver and OB both chased Smokey around the room. I ended it there, but, oh, poor Smokey. Today wasn’t as bad, but they still chased her. *Sigh* Then to make things even more confusing for me, OB flopped next to her, and they groomed each other a little bit. ( 😀 )So now I am very confused about where we are at. I really don’t want to take them back to neutral, for not many places in the house are neutral, haha, so I had to use a couch. Semi-neutral was going to be the whole house, so then I decided to move them into a room that has slippery floors, (I put mats down, haha) and moved their x-pens in there. What should I do to make them stop chasing poor Smokey? They did this even in neutral! 🙄

Any advice is appreciated, and thank you in advance!

[Hazel]

If they’re making a habit of ganging up on Smokey, it might be worth doing some one on one bonding sessions with Smokey and each of them? Maybe some stress bonding on the slippery floor, that should cut down on the chasing as well (as long as you don’t feel it is a problem for OB’s bad leg).

[HipHopBunny]

Good idea, I’ll try that and let you know how it goes. 🙂 Thank you!

[HipHopBunny]

I tried it, and it worked! 🙂 Although, I just petted them right next to each other until the flopped. With OB, it was harder, she’s an escape artist, haha. Kept running away. *Sigh* I got them to groom Smokey though, ears were up! I Will continue to do this and let you know how it goes. Thank you for the idea. 🙂 Smokey is getting tired of this pesky hoomin trying to be her friend LOL. 😆 They have the biggest little personalities. 🙂

[Hazel]

Awesome, I’m glad it seems to help! Hopefully this will strengthen Smokey’s bond with each of them until they’re all on the same “bonding level”. 🙂

[HipHopBunny]

That idea has really turned things in a positive direction! They are all getting along great with Smokey! Maybe I’m speaking too soon, haha. Will keep you posted. 🙂

[HipHopBunny]

Here we go! We are on a roll, our good first picture! 🙂 OB, Pose better and you’ll be in the next one, LOL! 😆 Smokey looks a little grumpy, but I managed to snag one with both of them in the litter box, LOL, silly buns. Can’t wait for their turn. 😆

[Hazel]

Of course she’s grumpy, you’re interrupting her potty break! 😆

They’re so cute together!

[HipHopBunny]

I didn’t realize I’d posted three of the same picture, LOL. 😆 Spoke too soon, Smokey just got chased away by OB. 🙄 I’m thinking of doing the stress bonding with them, then letting them all out together since it worked great yesterday. 🙂 Thank you again!

[HipHopBunny]

Woo-hoo! We are getting there! OB, the one who is the most difficult with Smokey – was snuggling with Smokey for 1 hour now! We got grooms, flops, and lots of snuggles! YAY! 😀 😀 Thank you all for your help, I don’t know where we’d be without you!

[Hazel]

Naawww, that sounds adorable! So glad they’re making progress! 😀

[Louiethebunny]

yay! So good to hear!

[DanaNM]

Sounds great!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[HipHopBunny]

Thank you, everyone! 🙂

How can I officially have them bonded? Should I do a marathon, then put them all together? Thing is, when I’m not in there, because of all the mats, they chew… haha, I do not count on these mats staying in one piece for another year. 🙁

 

[Louiethebunny]

Louie and Lola live in my bedroom, (although they sometimes get to see other parts of the house) and at the end of their bonding I just had them free roam all night so if anything happened I would be there. I then moved the xpen to a slightly new spot, tossed the xpen mat in the wash, rearranged toys and wiped down the xpen with a water and vinegar mixture so it was completely neutral, and then I had them marathon in there. After about two and a half or three days with no problems and grooming, sharing food and water, sharing litter boxes etc. I considered them bonded and got rid of the dog crate Lola was in and left it in the garage in case I need it in the future.

[DanaNM]

What types of spaces do you have available to marathon? I def think you should at least do an overnight or two in the neutral space you’ve been working in before you move them to their permanent home. Maybe you could get a piece of scrap linoleum as the flooring?

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[HipHopBunny]

The room they are in right now for semi-neutral has mats on the floors, and I moved their x-pens in there. If I didn’t, haha, they’d have the whole house. When I take them in there for dates though, they’ve chewed the mats so much! 😥 How can I make it so they don’t chew? The neural space – I was in a rush to figure out neutral areas, so it is the couch, where they also chew. 🙁 I can never win them.

Should I put them in Silver’s x-pen? I’m thinking Silver’s, for she is the most cage aggressive, and if she could live with them in there then I think that would make it official. Smokey doesn’t care, she hides from them when they come near it, OB’s fine with Silver, Smokey gets a sharp nip on the butt. I’m not saying that I put the actual rabbit in there and closed the door to figure this out, I just left the door open and watched what happened. I had gloves on the ready. Probably wasn’t the smartest thing I could do, but I was in a desperate delusional state of mind, that maybe they were bonded. Haha, I need to give up on that wishful thinking. 😥 I don’t think that they are bonded yet, I just want to have a plan ready for when they bond. 🙂

Thank you both for your responses. 🙂 I’ll definitely wash out their x-pens before putting them in. *Sigh* if only all buns bonded as quickly as Louie and Lola did. 😉

[DanaNM]

I would use the space you’ve been working with them in, but find a different flooring solution. Maybe get a big piece of plywood? You could put some cardboard on top of it as well. Since it’s temporary it wouldn’t matter if they peed on it or chewed it.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[HipHopBunny]

That could work. 😀 Good idea! How soon should I do a marathon? They still nip Smokey, but just now they were snuggling with her! 🙂 Thank you for your response.

[DanaNM]

It’s somewhat up to you. With some of my pairs, I waited until they seemed pretty much bonded before going for an overnight (supervised still). Others I actually marathoned to actually finish the bond. How long has your longest session been at this point?

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[HipHopBunny]

Haha, I haven’t been doing that long of sessions. Well, the longest I think I’ve done straight was 3-4 hours. I do multiple sessions a day though, that usually adds up to 3-4 hours though. When I do the marathon, how big should space be? Thank you for the response, all of the replies I get are really helping to make the bags that have formed under my eyes feel less heavy. 😉

[DanaNM]

You could try some 6-8 hour sessions before deciding to go for the marathon if you wanted to. I would use the same size space you are already bonding in. 🙂

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[HipHopBunny]

Okay, thank you. 🙂 I could do that, for the actual marathon though, should I have them in a 4×4 area though? I don’t want to give them too much space out of worry that they would not focus on each other. 🙄 Silver who I have nicknamed Gaston, for she “shoots from behind” and in a small territory I think it could help with that, for then they tend to snuggle, and she’s happy when she’s groomed. 😆 They have character don’t they?

[HipHopBunny]

I managed to catch one of them snuggling! Sorry, it’s a little blurry!

[DanaNM]

Not sure how big your current bonding space is, but if they are currently doing well in small, maybe you could start the marathon in that size, and then slowly expand it over the course of the time?

I’m so happy your three are doing well!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[HipHopBunny]

My current bonding space is around 10 by 10 ft. In the morning sessions, there are tons of binkies, and they pretty much ignore each other. The rest of the day though, they mostly flop, Silver, and OB are always together, and now they don’t mind it when Smokey joins them! 😀 Although, haha, if she does anything they don’t like she gets a nip on the butt. 🙁 Still working through some of the rough edges.

Should I have them have the whole area though? Or should I do it in a corner about 5×5 small? How would I block them off to the rest though? Do you think they’ll be ready by next weekend for a marathon? My only set-back is how much Silver and OB like to show Smokey whos boss. (I kind of actually want Smokey to retaliate, haha) Overall though she seems pretty happy with them. *Sigh* If only rabbits could talk… 😉

[DanaNM]

If the big space is working (which is sounds like it is), I would go with that. 🙂 I only mentioned smaller because I wasn’t sure if you were currently using a small space and then were worried it wouldn’t be big enough for longer sessions.

The longer sessions might help them work out the final kinks.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[HipHopBunny]

Thank you for your response. 🙂 I could make that work. On the night of the marathon, I sleep in there to make sure everything goes okay? Just wondering, how much sleep have you or other’s gotten on that night? It’s a little daunting to think about, LOL. 😆

[Hazel]

“Gaston” 😆

If you’re right there, I wouldn’t worry too much about falling asleep. If something goes wrong I’m sure you’ll hear it. I bet they’ll be fine though! 🙂

Adorable picture, at first I didn’t realize sneaky Silver was hiding in the back there!

[HipHopBunny]

I’m worried about them bullying Smokey. 🙁 Even now they’ll chase her around the room. 😥 Poor Smokey. I haven’t been as good about stress bonding them as I should be, for they seem to be treating her decently, although, they still will chase her sometimes. I don’t know why though! She’s kind to them, doesn’t care about the hierarchy, and isn’t catty! 😉 Well, they don’t do it often, so that’s good. 🙂 Silver definitally resembles Gaston in every way, although she is sadly lacking that double-chin. Other than that, she’s definitely got an aloof expression and very good self-esteem of herself. 😆 OB is most definitely Lefou, she worships Silver. 🙄 They give me a good laugh. 😀

Thank you for your response! 🙂

[Hazel]

So if Gaston is chasing Smokey, I guess that makes her Belle?! Maybe Silver is actually into Smokey and doesn’t know how to be cool about it… This is getting complicated 😆

I think we need a big hairy, fourth bun to back up Belle 😉

[HipHopBunny]

LOL! 😆 If that’s the case, then I’ll tell them, the real way to win Smokey’s heart, is to rescue her from that pesty hoomin who keeps trying to get a snuggle out of her! 😆

I managed another picture! 😀 Same spot seems to be a favorite of theirs. For some reason, they like to kick the mats away from this area too. The ground cooler? 🙂

Here are Lofou and Gaston competing for the hand of Belle. 😆

[HipHopBunny]

Sorry, I’m probably posting too many pics, buuut, here are a few more… 😀

[Hazel]

Aww, you should get that last one framed, it’s so cute! 😀

[HipHopBunny]

Thank you! 😀 I was seeing earlier if I could make it my profile pic, alas, it was too big…will have to look into framing it though! 😉 Do you think in one week they’ll be ready to do a marathon in one of their x-pens? Should I do it in an x-pen, or should I do it in semi-neutral? OB and Silver did chase Smokey briefly today, so should I wait a while? Right now they are in their sleepy time of day, should I wait and observe their behavior in the mornings and evenings when they are active? Thank you in advance. 🙂

[DanaNM]

I think it’s best to marathon them in neutral, then move them into semi-neutral, then their final home, all without separating if possible (but not the end of the world if you need to separate!).

Usually the rule of thumb is after 48 hours in neutral with no negative behaviors and plenty of positive (cuddling, relaxing, sharing food and litter box, grooming, etc), then you are ready to move to the new location, then restart the clock and wait for the 48 hours of no aggression with lots of positives again. Sometimes people don’t have a great semi-neutral option, so I have gone from neutral straight to the final (cleaned, reorganized, deodorized) home without doing semi-neutral. Some buns will regress a little when you move to a new spot , other’s have no issues. Of course go with your gut. If they seem tense (but haven’t technically fought or anything) after 48 hours and you just aren’t sure, give them more time.

I think it’s a great idea to see how they are in the more active times of day. I know when I was marathoning Myra and Bun Jovi they would be perfect all day and then around 3 am they would get into a scuffle, almost like clockwork. In that case the first marathon space I tried wasn’t neutral enough. Once I started marathoning in a very neutral spot they had no problems after the first night.

So I think I would prob see how they did in a longer session during the evening or early morning, and if that goes well then go for the marathon. Sometimes the sessions during those active times are really necessary for them to work out the final kinks in their hierarchy.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[HipHopBunny]

So I just tried them now, and at first, they were very active. OB and Silver nipped Smokey once or twice, but other than that they were pretty good. Silver and OB are bonded, they are always fine with each other, and chose to flop next to the other bun. Right now, though, they are all flopped together. ( 😀 )

What my issue really is, is that, if I had just two of them, they’d be bonded. Smokey and Silver, or OB and Smokey, they’d have a good relationship. They are great when I stress bond them too (haha, I need to be better at doing that…) it’s just when I put them all together, they just chose sides, if you know what I am saying.

Aaaaand, Smokey just got kicked out of their circle… 😥

I can’t do 5 nights. Two in neutral, two in semi-neutral, and one in the territory. I have a job, so I was hoping to get this all established by next weekend. 🙂

Now OB just went over and flopped next to Smokey… 😀

Thank you all for your help, this has really helped me keep my sanity through all of this. 🙂 (at least I think I haven’t lost it yet… 😆 ) Should I do some stress-bonding this week, then next week evaluate where we are at, and decide about doing a marathon? When I do do a marathon, should I do one night in Semi-neutral, and one night in the territory?

Again, I thank you all so much for the help! 😀

[HipHopBunny]

Today I had to play Litter Box monitor! 😆 Poor Smokey had to go bad, and they kept kicking her out. 🙄 Tomorrow I plan on doing a lot of stress bonding with them. 😉 I’m hoping that with 1 week of stress-bonding, and 1 week of seeing how it all turned out, that I’ll be able to do a marathon on that weekend. 🙂 If anyone has any other tips they would be greatly appreciated! 😀

[Hazel]

I bet the stress bonding will help. Can’t wait for them to be bonded for good! 🙂  You’re doing great!

[DanaNM]

I think the stressing will help too. Litter boxes can be a tough one! Are you using a brand new huge one? I usually don’t even introduce a box until well into the marathon when they seem pretty much bonded, and one of my metrics of “yep, I think they are bonded” is when they can share the litter box without issue (or share two that are next to each other if 1 isn’t big enough). Not necessarily all using it at the same time, but not guarding it or kicking each other out.

I will say if it’s not possible, don’t fret over not being able to do so many nights in a row, but I wouldn’t cut the whole thing short (esp with their history of being almost bonded before and then having a falling out). I would do however many you can in neutral, then if you need to go back to just normal sessions during the work week, do that. Then move to semi-neutral for the next big chunk. I have also skipped semi-neutral in my last couple bonds, mostly because I don’t really have a semi-neutral space. I would start them in neutral, then completely clean and reorganize their final home, then move them there and be sure to supervise for at least 48 hours. I have never really had problems with the move to the final home when I’ve spent a long enough time in neutral, but some bunnies will take a step back when they move to a new spot.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[HipHopBunny]

Update: Stress-bonding. Silver and Smokey at first were very active. Aaaaaaaand, bouncing all over the place. 🙁 I finally got them calmed down and they flopped. 🙂 Made some progress. Right now I’m doing 30-minute sessions with them. We definitely have a lot more of this ahead of us, the sessions did not go as smoothly as I hoped. 😐 I think my mistake here, is that I am doing it in the room where they do actual sessions. I should probably take this to the bathtub. Will keep you all posted. 🙂 Thank you for the responses!

[HipHopBunny]

Stress bonding in the tub: day 1. Right now I am sitting in the bathroom with Smokey and OB in the bathtub. They are doing…not as well as I’d like them too. 😐 In the beginning, they both were exploring, OB thumped and started nipping poor Smokey. 😥 Right now though, they are both flopped. OB gave Smokey some grooms, though it’d be nice if there was more… 🙄 Will let you all know how Silver and Smokey go! 🙂

[DanaNM]

I don’t know if I would consider just being in the tub as “stress-bonding”, unless you have some alternate source of stress in there? Most stressing usually involves car rides, being carried around in a laundry basket, or sitting on top of the washing machine.

The tub in itself is small, new, and slippery, so maybe slightly stressful, but probably not stressful enough to really push them forward.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[HipHopBunny]

In the tub, they all seemed pretty stressed out, although, you are right, probably will need a new location soon. 🙁 Since OB and Smokey were doing pretty good towards the end, I added in Silver and extended it 40 minutes. 🙂 All three flopped, there were some grooms too. 😀 So, should I do 1 stress bonding session a day for the next week? In their active hours, should I put them together and see how much the stress bonding paid off? Thank you for your response. 🙂

[DanaNM]

You can do tub/stress sessions as often as you would like, so long as all the buns aren’t getting too stressed (eating and pooping normally).

What do you mean by putting them together in active hours, do you mean in the other bonding area? If so, then it’s worth trying. Some people also like to do a “stress sandwich”, where you do a short amount of stressing (like a car ride) before and after the session in the less-stressful area. I usually end up doing this unintentionally when I have to drive to the space where I do bonding sessions.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[HipHopBunny]

Here we go! Litter box friends! 😆

[Hazel]

Yay, box buddies! Littermates? Toilet truce?? 😆  Alright I’ll stop.

Looks like they’re still making progress! 🙂

[HipHopBunny]

😆 Nice ones!

*Sigh* I need to work on stress bonding them! I’ve only done a few sessions. 🙁 Work’s just been so busy! 😥 Maybe I’ll postpone when I want to do the marathon… 😆 At least I’ll have all weekend to give them. 🙂

[HipHopBunny]

Well, I stress bonded them today! 😀 Aaaand, they were definitely stressed. 🙁 I put them all in a laundry basket, so there were some forced cuddles. Although, I had to end it after 35 minutes because Smokey peed. 🙄 *Sigh* Should I put them back in their pens afterwards to de-stress? Or should I take them to Semi-neutral? Thank you all in advance. 🙂

[DanaNM]

If you want to keep working with them after stressing you can put them straight into neutral or semi-neutral (esp if semi-neutral was the sticking point, that might be a good plan).

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Hazel]

Classic Smokey… 😆

[HipHopBunny]

Yes, they aren’t too stressed that they aren’t peeing or pooping! 😆

Thank you! 🙂 Last time I took them back to their x-pens to de-stress. (and so I could clean up Smokey’s mess 😆 )

This time, if nobody pees before it’s done, I plan on doing a 45-60 minutes stress bond session, then putting them all in semi-neutral.

Will keep you posted!

[HipHopBunny]

Well, I just finished stress bonding them, and they are now in semi-neutral.

I did a 30 minutes stress-bond session. It went okay, a little better than the last. This time I put them all in a box, where Silver stayed hunched up in a corner, OB chewed the wood, and Smokey escaped three times. 😯 So, I finally got them to settle down, and they flopped for a decent amount of time. Right now they are in Semi-neutral, all flopped, with no complaints of who’s next to who! 😀 We are improving! 🙂

 

[HipHopBunny]

Well, it just gets better and better! 😀 Lately they have all been pretty good with each other! Silver still nips them, but they all flop in the end, with no help from me! 😀 Will keep you posted!

[DanaNM]

sounding good! woohoo!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[HipHopBunny]

Things have been going a little iffy lately. 😐

They have gone back to acting bonded half the time. I don’t know, Silver’s been acting the same toward both of them – she now nips OB sometimes! 😮 OB is pretty neutral towards both of them, well, she does chase Smokey sometimes…What I really think the issue is, is curving Silver’s temper, and stopping the chasing. 🙁

(Haha, I just need to get better at stress bonding them…works just been so busy…) Sorry for the rant, and thank you in advance! 😀

[DanaNM]

It’s hard when life is busy! So I feel ya on that.

Agree that a bit more stressing, and perhaps some longer sessions, maybe a change of scenery could help! But then again sometimes it’s just time…. !

When they chase, can you see what triggers it? And what happens if you don’t intervene? Does it lead to a circling? Sometimes it can be necessary to let the chase play out a bit, as long as it doesn’t lead to scuffling or circling. The idea is that eventually the chasing rabbit realizes the chased rabbit isn’t going to turn and challenge them, so they eventually stop.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[HipHopBunny]

“What triggers the chase?”

Haha, Smokey coming remotely near them. 😆 They can be fine with Smokey sometimes and will flop with her and groom her.  Other times, they just chase her away. No, it doesn’t lead to circling, Smokey is a sweet bun, sometimes they will corner her, and she’ll turn around to face them. You can definitely tell though, that when she turns around to face them, she isn’t going to fight. 🙁 More of preparedness to run. I feel so bad for her!  You’re right though, I should let them see that Smokey is sweet…it’s just so hard to see my poor baby being chased! She’s even started warming up to me because they are so mean!

Yes! I need to do stress bonding! 😥 Works just SO BUSY, and the room they are in has bad wifi, so I can’t do my work in there… 😥 Sorry for the rant again!

Thank you for your response! 😀

[HipHopBunny]

Well, now Silver is just mean to both of them. 😥 How can I make them bond when I don’t have much time! 😥

Thank you all so much in advance!

[DanaNM]

Woof, I feel your pain!

I think the two things that could help are some different types of stress (some car rides for example), a change of scenery (a new bonding location if possible), and longer sessions if you can bear it. I can’t recall how long your sessions have been, but sometimes it seems like after a certain amount of hours the rabbits realize the other rabbits aren’t going away so they better make the most of it. Also as much as you are busy, daily sessions might help….

There are so many ways to bond, in some cases it seems like it is important to give the buns A LOT of space and actually let them chase and tire each other out (without allowing fighting of course). The counter advice (which I think is very important in the earliest stages) is to work on building trust and positive associations. But I think you are a bit past that phase, since you are seeing some positives, it just hasn’t been consistent.

I suggest a change in scenery if you can, because in my experience when I’ve hit a stalemate that has helped me. If you can’t physically go somewhere, changing up the bonding area might help (add a new blanket, some new hides, etc).

I’m going to link you to a thread from another member who had a tough bond (a duo) but it worked out in the end! With hers she ended up needing to allow a certain amount of chasing.

Zou & Henry’s bonding diary & photos

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[HipHopBunny]

Well, we haven’t been doing half bad! 😀 They’ve been snuggling A LOT! 😀 There’s still some nipping, but a lot less! 😀

Thank you Dana for that thread, I’ve been reading through it! I love threads like that, built on humor, yet informational! 😆

( We’ve been doing so good, that I’ve started thinking about doing a marathon…again…is this just my hopeless dream? 😆 )

 

[Hazel]

Yay for snuggles! 😀  You’re getting there. A marathon might be worth a try! 🙂

[DanaNM]

yay for snuggles! I second a marathon if your having snuggles and no fights!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[HipHopBunny]

Well, there still are a few times where Silver, ahem, chases Smokey around the room. 🙁 Not too happy about that. Although they still get along pretty well on other occasions, so I’m torn about trying a marathon…eh, I should just do it and get it over with, right? 😆

Here’s a picture of them snuggling!

[DanaNM]

Sometimes I think the marathon (or other really long sessions, doesn’t necessarily have to be 24/7) can be what finally makes them realize the other rabbit just isn’t going away so they better sort things out for good. Especially when bonding has been going on a long time, it almost seems to me like they can get settled into the status quo and not be pushed to fully cement things.

And hopefully, with the chasing, after enough times of Smokey running and not turning back to face Silver, Silver will realize Smokey isn’t going to challenge her and she will stop the chasing.

 

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[HipHopBunny]

They haven’t really improved or changed at all. *Sigh* This is not fair! These three found each other through speed dating, just like MoonLightBunny and Louiethebunny! How come we haven’t bonded already? 😆 I hear you on that though, sometimes they are great friends, other times they can barely tolerate each other! 😥 So this is the best they’re gonna get? 🙁 Is there a way to cement things? 😀

Also, I’ve been playing with this little thought of switching their pens for a little while too, (haha, I heard about pre-bonding a month into their bonding sessions, and, I didn’t know about the post-spay craze either, so, that might’ve set back their bonding… 😥 ) Would it be too late to start pen swaps? LOL! 😆

[DanaNM]

I don’t think it’s ever too late to swap pens!

When Bun Jovi and Bertha hit a stalemate (they would be fine and cuddling all day, then would scuffle every night like clockwork), the thing that worked was a change of scenery and marathoning there. Something about the new location, things just clicked. I wrote an article about it here:

http://www.bunssb.org/bunnies/bonding-two-stubborn-senior-buns/

Do you have a good friend that will let you take over their kitchen or garage for a long weekend? 😀

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[HipHopBunny]

Yay! 😀 Okay then! I’ll start the pen swapping! 😀

Also, for cementing the bond, would it help any to do the bulk of the sessions during their lazy hours so that they are snuggling a lot? Didn’t know if it was just my wishful thinking that it could be that easy, LOL! 😆

I’ll check out that thread! Love the title! 😆 Thank you so much!

[DanaNM]

I think it’s good to start cementing during the lazy hours, but then be sure it continues on into the evening eventually. But yeah I’ve always done the first really long sessions during the day when everyone is sleepy. Bun Jovi and Bertha were driving me crazy because they would be great all day, then every evening a scuffle would break out.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[HipHopBunny]

😆 They have character!

Things have been going pretty well! I’ve been feeding everyone dinner together, where I’ll just scatter it outside and they get to find it. Sometimes I’ll do breakfast too! 😀 I heard that was a trick to strengthen bonds, hopefully, it helps! 🙂

This weird thing happened today, I left the room briefly while they were all bonding, then I came back in and Smokey and OB were just following each other around the room. At first, I thought OB was chasing Smokey, but I don’t think so. They only did it for a few minutes then broke off to go do something else. 😆

[DanaNM]

They were plotting something I’m sure 😉

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[HipHopBunny]

Aren’t they always? 😆

[Hazel]

You know they’re bonded when they start plotting! 😆

[DanaNM]

How are things going with your three HipHop?

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[HipHopBunny]

Things have been going alright here!! 🙂 They’ve all been building a bit of tolerance with each other. The truly miraculous thing that happened recently, was during their lazy hours, when I was taking them all out, and Smokey and OB hopped in Silver’s X-pen, while Silver was in it, and there were grooms and snuggles! 😀 I, uh, definitely took them all out immediately when I noticed Silver getting a little frisky, but, hey, maybe it isn’t too optimistic of me to say that Silver was one of those groomers!! 😉

Sadly I haven’t really been working with them much, but they still see each other every day, so hopefully, just doing that they will eventually bond. 🙂 A girl can hope, right? 😆

Thank you for checking up on us, I really appreciate it!! 🙂

[Hazel]

Sounds promising, good job Silver!

Perhaps this more casual approach is the way to go. Maybe they were just having fun giving you a hard time at first. 😉

[DanaNM]

That sounds like a very good sign! Maybe that means they are ready to be together! I’ve heard reports of this happening sometimes, where the buns decide they are ready to be together on their own and their humans find them snuggled up together in each other’s pens. 🙂

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[HipHopBunny]

The ladies have been doing well.

I think that we are almost bonded, just not sure. Today I have had them in some neutral space together to see how they go (I’m thinking of marathoning them tonight in a different neutral space) Only, OB has been chasing Smokey, and Silver is a bit bossy. I’m debating about whether this is because they aren’t ready, or if it’s just the pecking order and their personalities. Do you all think that they’re bonded?

Thank you in advance!

[DanaNM]

Very exciting!

Do you see positive behaviors between all of the different combos of bunnies? Like grooming, cuddling, sharing litter box, etc?

What is the chasing like? Is there a trigger for it? How often does it happen and what happens after?

I’m currently asking the same questions about Cooper and Bonnie, because they are super comfortable together, but around meal times Cooper gets so excited he ends up chasing Bonnie around. But it seems more because they are just excited and start running all around (it’s not a fast aggressive chase). They also seem like definite buddies but not super close yet.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[HipHopBunny]

The chasing isn’t really caused by anything. It is mostly OB now who is chasing Smokey. 🙁 When she does, sometimes she’ll have her ears down, but then shortly after, they’re friends again. Other than that though, they’re all great together. Silver can also sometimes get a bit cranky, and nip the other two. I don’t know…. they’re very wishywashy. For, they do cuddle a lot. Fingers crossed that this marathon works!!

Do you think that trying it in this new space will help them bond better?

Thank you for your response!! 😀

[DanaNM]

I think a new space and marathoning will likely help!

I think if the chasing means that Smokey is tense around OB, or OB always chases Smokey anytime she comes near, then that’s a problem. If it’s followed up with some grooming or cuddling, then it might mean that OB is still just making sure that Smokey isn’t going to challenge her.

Keep us posted on the marathon!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[HipHopBunny]

Yeah, I’ll keep an eye on those two. Hopefully the marathoning helps!!

Here are some pics from today:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Will keep you posted!! 😉

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