Bringing together an 8 week old Female & 8 month old Neutered male.

[Deannaline]

Hello all:

I am tired of reading and reading, so just going to ask you all:

My name is Deann and I have a Holland Day Lop Buns.  Male Neutered and he is 8 months old called Newton.

I am getting a second one the first week of May.  She is actually my Newton’s Neice.  Newton Sister had babies on March 18th.

You can go a website I have started making to view my photos..  See Newtons Castle and Nalla’s Baby Pics.

http://deannalinesdesigns.bravehost.com/

Newton is my first rabbit and luv him to death.

My question is Bonding Newton with Nalla.  I did not plan on getting her fixed since he is.

You will see from my photos that I have a cage inside a cage where I plan to put her at first.  Then making sure they seem to like each other.

Will they fight?  Won’t he be just be joyed that he has a pal?  I would luv some suggestions on putting these two together.

[Beka27]

Female rabbits really should be spayed, regardless of whether they are a single rabbit or the other bunny is neutered. Female rabbits have an 85% risk of developing uterine cancer by the age of 4 if not altered.

Also, if she is not spayed they will begin to fight once she reaches sexual maturity and they won’t be able to be together at all. In general, female rabbits are actually MORE aggressive and territorial than males and they can be very mean when intact.

Why were you not going to spay her, just b/c he is neutered or is there another reason?

[Karla]

I must say that besides what Beka is saying there is also another point, which is just as important: your female will be sexually frustrated which is not nice for her. Rabbits are meant for reproducing 3-4 times during their season each year. It is the whole point of their existance and also why they are so prone to uterine cancer as house rabbits. House rabbits don’t follow the season the same way as wild rabbits do, which means a female bunny will have a hormonal urge to reproduce all the time and be sexually frustrated. That is no life for her. Neutering means giving the bunnies peace of mind and a less stressful life.

There is no way of knowing if they will fight. But it is definitely a good idea to read up on bonding before beginning. This is a very good link:
http://www.rabbit.org/faq/sections/introductions.html

[Elrohwen]

Female rabbits are typically *very* territorial, especially starting around 5 months. I don’t think there’s much of a chance that they’ll be able to get along once her hormones kick in and there’s a good chance that someone will get seriously hurt in a fight.

[Deannaline]

Ok..  ugh.. ugh…………

I thought getting a female would be best , I thought just two same sex would fight.

So all of you that have more than one rabbit usally keep them separate?  Unless you brought say two babies home together… or you plan or having babies.  Now I am worried.

I have this huge cage that we build and seems a shame to only have one and or have the other in the small cage.

I read the link and thanks, still reading away…  

Sounds like I have to keep her in the small cage till I have her fixed (p.s. what is the dif between spay & neuter) then after about 2 weeks.. maybe she can join him. 

Yes I think about the teritorial thing.  Since he moved into this new cage, when I open the door he will come out for a run.. visit with me on the couch and then hit his out of cage little box, then return to his cage on his own.  I have to beg him to come out sometimes.  He has not even pooped in the cage little box.. well a couple.  Nothing like the dump he takes when he is out.   So I know he believes that is his castle.  He may not like it if she dumps in it… lol

Alright then.  Guess I am getting her fixed.  When I got newton fixed it was awful… he looked like he was half dead for 3 days. 

So if I put her in the cage inside the cage..  for weeks.. can I finally let them meet till she is about 4 months.. then at 5 fix her.. and then again try in later weeks..    God and I thought this would be happiness and joy..  So many photos of rabbits with a pal…..

Thanks all…

 

[Deannaline]

Hi Beka27

I got a male at first and did not plan on fixing him.  Then well he was so wild and was scared of this spraying. Yet I luved the little dance he did around me, then he started humping my leg.

I had read females were more aggressive so went with the male.   Now well I feel bad for him all alone.  I had a Guinue Pig for 5 years that was alone and I cried like a baby when he died and felt so bad that he never had a mate.  I don’t want Newton to live alone.

He is the cleanest rabbit.  I open the door for him a least three times a day.  He always comes out to do his business in the little box outside the cage. 

I do not let my dog around him.  Dog is scared of him cus he bit his nose back about 5 months ago.

Anyway.. back to Newton and Nalla..  Did you see the cage I have and how I have the small one inside for the new rabbit.????

Thank you,

 

 

 

[Deannaline]

http://www.rabbit.org/journal/3-4/two-rabbits.html
Oh my god.. this is such good readying.. I was looking around this site for this.. ending reading everyone elses stuff..

Thank you, now reading on..

Deannaline®

[Monkeybun]

I have 2 buns that I am currently bonding, you don’t have to keep them in a tiny cage, bunnies need at least 4 hours of exercise time outside of a cage every day. Before bonding, mine had play time separate, now they are able to play together.

I would NOT put the new baby inside the big cage with Newton. Even in the little cage. Keep the little cage separate, as bunnies can and will fight through bars. Bonding can be a lengthy process, bunnies generally don’t insta-bond, although sometimes it does happen. You won’t want to bond her to him until she is spayed, around 6 months old. You’ll have to house her separate until a month after the spay.

[Elrohwen]

You can absolutely bond two bunnies together, and bonding a male with a female is typically the easiest bond. So don’t worry too much! You just need to get your girl spayed, then wait for her hormones to die down (about 4 weeks) then work on bonding them following the typical steps. You won’t be able to just put them in the same space together – you’ll need to introduce them in neutral territory a lot of times and ensure that they have positive time together, then very gradually you will be able to leave them together longer and longer and eventually have them share the same cage.

Spaying is desexing, just like a neuter, but spaying is a more invasive procedure. They actually open the bunny up and take out her reproductive organs so she can no longer reproduce and won’t be producing the reproductive hormones (which make her very sexually frustrated). It’s hard, but just remember that it will most likely extend her life by 7-10 years and make her much much happier. And it will make it possible to bond her with your boy! It’s so worth it to get her spayed.

Where is the picture of your cage? I’m kind of confused about the set up and the litter box especially, so I’d love to check it out.

[Deannaline]

 

Here the cage photos.. sorry my link for some reason is not working on my webpage for the slideshow.

 

[Elrohwen]

I can’t see the pics 🙁

[Deannaline]

Me either.. I uplaod them..

[Elrohwen]

Did you upload them and then click on “add picture to post” (on the green plus sign)?

[Deannaline]

Newton”s Castle.. see his old cage inside.. He really doesn’t go in it .. Left it for Nalla.. 

 

 

Ok.. try this once again.. UGH!!

[Elrohwen]

The picture should show up in your post (in the editing screen) before you submit the post. So you’ll know if it worked.

When you upload, is it successful? It could be the wrong file format or it could be too large.

Assuming the upload is working and you see the file name show up, you just need to click the green plus sign to add to your post.

[Deannaline]

Got it now.. Sorry..guys.

[Elrohwen]

That’s a pretty cool cage! I do think that your new bunny needs to have her cage removed from his. Bunnies can and will fight through the bars. And once she’s out of his cage, she can have her own exercise time (maybe adding a pen to the front of her cage would give her more room too).

Or maybe you could close up one of the holes so that one bun got two sections of the cage and the other got one section. They’d both still need to come out for exercise, but it might be a good housing solution for you.

[Deannaline]

 

 

Ok just took these now..  Gee ‘s..  the cage inside the cage is one of the biggest you can buy..

I can take it out and put beside on the stand to the left..  for Nalla..  I really  want the two to be together.. well after she is fixed I guess now.  The hole point of building a big cage for two.  Newton’s out more than 3 times a day.. and doesn’t care to stay out.  He goes back in after a run, poop and meet.  This was built for Newton.. I’d hate to  have to close him off to any levels..   Maybe a second ws such a great plan with out more knowledge on my part.  The girl I get them from has her buns outside.. and she breeds them and well they are all seperate.  ugh.  Well time for more reading.   Thanks all.. !!

 

[Elrohwen]

Those petstore cages are just too small for any bun, unfortunately 🙁 But it’s pretty easy to enlarge them by adding a pen made of NIC grids so the bunny can hop out and run around in the pen too.

But Newton’s cage is so huge, I don’t think it would be a problem to close off a section of it for the other bun. But of course, you don’t have to – you can keep her in her current cage just as easily.

I’m just curious, but why does Newton have to come out for his litter box? It seems like he has one inside – does he only use the litterbox outside of his cage?

[Deannaline]

Correct!   He only seems to go outside the cage…  I found like 10 poo’s total since we moved him in the big cage 4 weeks ago.  .. no pee no poo…  He comes and and does his business in the box down here in my recroom.  He is in the furnace room.  He will get up on the couch with me and hop on the top direct his butt agaist the wall and poo.. and some on the seat..  he is getting better and better though with that. 

There is actually two litter boxes in that cage.. one on the very bottom and one inside the cage inside.. left it like it was till he got use to the big new home.  I don’t really ever see him go back in the sm cage….  I got my husband to build that for me for my birthday.

I let him out tonight and I had to shut the door from keeping him running back in.  So I could spend some time.  Yet all he did was reef on the door to get back in.. finally I just opened it and let him return.

When He was in the small cage I had a hell of a time getting him back in.  Easy to lift him out but when he got this big, I could let his toe’s touch door on the way out or he would jump.  Then returning him back in the cage after like 2-3 hours out with me.. when I tried to get him back in through the door of the cage he tore my arms up.  They are scared from his nail.  Looks like a poor attempt at suicide more than once.

NIC grids ??

Well I will keep them appart till she is fixed.. do I Neuter or spay.. have to read more up on this tooo….  I only wanted a second rabbit to have them together.. pals..

So tell me.. what about the rabbit s that people breed and do not fix… do they get these urain effection things..and die early.. that is sad…..

 

 

[Monkeybun]

Yep, most of the breeder buns do, if they don’t die from other stuff. Its why most of them are always so young.

For girls, you spay. Boys, its neuter

[Deannaline]

Hey thanks for answering that.. So my Newton is Neuter.. and I have to spay Nalla..    Does the female cost more..? 

[Monkeybun]

Usually, yes. My vet charges 200 for spay, 165 for neuter. its because the spay is invasive, while the neuter is mostly external.

[Deannaline]

Posted By Monkeybun on 04/02/2010 05:24 PM
Usually, yes. My vet charges 200 for spay, 165 for neuter. its because the spay is invasive, while the neuter is mostly external. ya.. Newton was 150 ……  so figured the female woud be more.. just testing this quoat, wondering what it does.

 

[Deannaline]

Posted By Deannaline on 04/02/2010 05:29 PM

Posted By Monkeybun on 04/02/2010 05:24 PM
Usually, yes. My vet charges 200 for spay, 165 for neuter. its because the spay is invasive, while the neuter is mostly external. ya.. Newton was 150 ……  so figured the female woud be more.. just testing this quoat, wondering what it does.

Newton ws just over 4 months.. and he looked like death…

 

 

[Monkeybun]

Monkey was out of it for a couple days after her spay. But the pain meds help. With the aid of her banana flavored metacam, she was dancing for treats in no time

[Beka27]

Many of us do have bonded bunnies, but we have either had them spay/neutered ourselves or adopted them already fixed. All bunnies should be altered when in pairs, regardless of what sex. Let us know if you have any more questions.

Your Newton is very cute, by the way!

[Deannaline]

See never new this whe gettin my first bun..I will Spay the new girl.. keep her seprate from Newton till about 6 weeks after spay.. then hope to god they luv one another.. and get rid of the small cage and live happy in Newtonvilla.. http://deannalinesdesigns.bravehost.com/

[Karla]

Deannaline, you sound worried that you brought a girl home. Don’t! It’s a great idea and those two bunnies will most likely be very thankful for the company. You are on the right track. The point is just that both need to be fixed. That will make the bonding so much easier and as mentioned earlier give bunnies a better, healthier and longer life.

As for breeders, well, I don’t know how the health is of those bunnies. But if a breeder does let her female have litters a couple of times a year, the risk of cancer is most likely not very high. But most likely, they don’t live very long either as it does take its toll to have litters all the time and they rarely get out of their small cages, so they get no exercise or enjoy the company of other bunnies.

Good luck with it. And I must say: someone has been very busy building a bunny condo! Wow.

[Deannaline]

Hey Karla:

Thank you for the Positives !!!    The past two days and listening to how hard it will be had gotten me worried that a second is to a good idea for me.  Just cus I have a castle for two buns to share and did not want a second in a small cage cus I just cant bare has my hubbie to build another nor do I have the room… people with start thing I went Nuts0~

The girl I get my buns from does not fix hers.  She breads them.  Nice girl.  She has all different kinds.  The girl bun I am getting the first week of May is Newton’s sister baby. Simease in colour.

See them on my site..    http://deannalinesdesigns.bravehost.com/  which I only started and will soon buy some webspace since the pop ups and the limits of 5 mgs is nuts…

I took the sm cage out today… so Newton can get use to it beside his cage before she comes home.  He keeps looking over to it.  As it was his first home.  Plus he did go pee in the litter box in it while in the big cage.  My Newton does not like to poo in his castle..  Only the litter box outside his home.  Very clean bun I have.

So I will bring Nalla home.  Keep them separte and hope I see licks between the cages …  I don’t know if I can wait 5 months before she is fixed to test the waters…  I want so much for him to have a sole mate to live out his years.  

Yes. Newton got a good home.  My poor dog gets lucked out from the basement now.  I feel bad for that, but I do not trust Newton Running at him so fast.  Scares the hell out my dog…

Gee, more money on bunnies.. good thing the husband never asks.. lol..  Newton was awful the day I brought him home after Neuter.. one point I thought he was dead.  Can not imagine how awful it will be for a female..

Dee

 

[Deannaline]

I watched your video.. and they look so happy together..  buns all getting along..   !!   Thank you for sharing.!!

[Karla]

When I found out it was a good idea to bond Karl with another bunny, I started reading all the various bonding posts in here – and I was horrified. It seemed so impossible and so stressful, but thankfully someone in here reassured me. For some it is a stressful journey, but not for all. I have a bonded trio today, and I should never have worried. But do read up on bonding – and stock up on bananas, haha

I bonded Karl and Molly when Molly was not spayed…they loved each other at first sight. I did spay her 2 days after though. The point is that I think you can still do bonding sessions with them while waiting for her spay, although of course, you need to supervise it as she might be territorial at times.

And yes, it is expensive for the spay, and yes, you will be feeling so bad the day before the spay and the following days, while she is recovering. But she will be just fine, and you will have done the best thing for her.

Great pictures – I cannot wait to see pictures of Nala and Newton snuggling together again.

[Deannaline]

Thanks Karla.. oh I will be taking many photo’s for sure. Nalla will be about 6 wks when I get her I think. Alittle to young to trust Newton with her. I think I will watch and study them. See how Newton looks apon her. Move her cage closer to the pen and watch kisses and licks or the nastsy.. Which I hope I do not see. Then I think I will have 3 months for them to bond. Then see how it goes.. then get her spayed. Just for all the reason all here having been telling me. Hey… I think I have my name.. in where Newtons should be in my message.. is your name Karla or is your rabbits? oh .. wait.. I recall you are Karla and he is Karl.. lol… remember reading that. Ok.. I have to start up a new question.. Nail trimming.. Dee

[jerseygirl]

lol – no Karla isn’t “karla” hehe. That was the name she called her bunny before she found out it was a boy! She’s just kept Karla there as her screen name.

Deann, the condo looks great! I think if you do get Nalla, it would be ok for her and Newton to have supervised play time together. That would be good for Newton as it’ll give him some company in the meantime. If you have Nallas cage near his also so they can see each other. This should help get them used to one another before you try bond them in the future. I can’t say I’d be able to wait 5 month without having let them meet. Since he is neutered, there’s no risk of pregnancy. So some short times together while your there watching them would be alright in my opinion.

If you do look to get Nalla spayed, be sure to get an experienced rabbit vet. I’m sorry Newton had a hard time and can see why you have some fears. When the time comes, I’m sure members here can help you find a suitable vet and offer lots of support.

[Karla]

Haha, yeah, thanks JerseyGirl. I know it confuses so many people…maybe I should change the screen name, but then none of you will know who I am

[jerseygirl]

haha. Most of us refer to each other by the screen names anyway, so as long as you know we mean you and not Karl – then it’s all good. I’m called Jersey alot even though that is actually my bunny. But it’s fine.

[Deannaline]

Hey.. called the Vet today.. to spay Nalla.. between 4-6 months.. costs.. $46.00 for the first visit and check up.. then $245.00 plus GST Canada, Bull.. So will cost me over $300.00 for the female. Newton was $150.00. UGH>…………. Ugh.. after that cost I will have spent well over a thousand on my bun’s.. This includes the Condo Costs..

[Beka27]

Bunnies are expensive. You don’t have her yet, so it’s not too late… maybe it’s just not the right time to bring another bunny into the house? I’m sure she’d find a great home with someone else and then maybe you could look into getting another bunny some other time, or better yet, adopt one that is already spayed from a rabbit rescue. Just a thought.

[Monkeybun]

Yep, bunnies do add up. And girls always cost more to spay. I’ve definitely spent over a thousand on my 2, and I don’t care, they’re my babies

[Barbie]

Lol, I call Jerseygirl Jersey

If you’re concerned about the cost, you could always hold off a bit and wait to get another bunny. Or like Beka suggested, look into adoption. I really think adoption is a good option – I adopted both of mine. You pay a nominal fee to the shelter or rescue to defray the costs that they’ve spent on the rabbit, and he/she comes home already checked by the vet and desexed! So you could start bonding right away! An added bonus, you can usually take your current bunny “dating” to let him meet a few candidates and see who he gets along with.

It sounds like you have your heart set on this little girl though. So best of luck with everything! Let us know what you decide to do.

[Deannaline]

ya.. I know, they are so worth it..
I got a cheque today for $250.00 for doing the website for my Union… I am going to bank it some place for Nalla’s spay.. so I wont feel the pinch.. and hubbie will not know .. lol.. I just told him he has to do some modifications to the cage for bonding.. a plug to block off the holes to each levels.. so when she is a little older I can put he in the condo… and have them switch.. levels.. and litters … etc…

[Beka27]

Oh good! That’s great you received some money, it will definitely come in handy! Can I also suggest you begin to put a little bit away when you can for an emergency fund? You’ll sleep better at night knowing that if one of the buns became sick, you had some money to cover the expense.

[Monkeybun]

Definitely put a med fund together. Things can sneak up on ya, like my Moosie’s stasis.

[Aloha Buns]

Actually neuter means the removal of sex organs. It applies to males or females. The sex specific terms are for males=castration and females=spay. The female will have her uterus and ovaries removed. The male will have his testes removed from the scrotal sac (but often the scrotal sac and testes are both removed). I’m not sure why but for some reason people use term spay correctly for females, but use the generic term neuter for males- probably by men who decided castration made them cringe when they heard it

[Deannaline]

Ok.. then why did Newton have is nuggets still.. after surgury.. they were huge like grapes for weeks.. can not see them now.. don’t think.. have to look…. again.. Really.. save more.. Well I will get a check 4 times a year for my website .. 250 each. guess that will be buns funds..

[jerseygirl]

You said Newton had a difficult recovery from his neuter. The bulk may have been swelling in the sacs that gradually disappeared.  It seems a bit long to have swelling for weeks. Perhaps he had a reaction to stitches?   If you’re in serious doubt about whether he was fully fixed, take him to a different vet just to check everything is as it should be. 

[Deannaline]

I do not no if it was difficult or normal. He just sat still for two day.. In the bunny hunch position… not relaxed.. He looked said.. but I wouldn’t know what is normal right. First bunny. He his little balls became big balls.. like large red grapes..and is was at least 3 weeks. One went down before the other…. They told me to bring food cus they eat when they wake. Well Newton did not want thing. I am nervous to go through that with a female since it is much more intense.
When I called around for prices this one had the best price and it is just down the street from me. It is an animal hosipital and vet… big office to. Like 3 secretary’s in it. Another one in Bowmanville wanted double the price. I figured the one I picked is perfect for emergency’s.. I can not compare since it was my first.
I just got Nalla’s 3 week pictures in.. going to add to her slideshow and put it up. I am also off to the bulk store to find these dried fruits..
Monkey bun.. what is going on with Mossie’s..

[Author]

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