Bonding Lago and Leppy – didn’t work out plus tragic end

[Helenor]

So I got a new rabbit that was rescued from a high kill shelter. His name is Leppy and he’s a black mini rex. It’s been a month since Lago’s been spayed so I’ve been trying introductions. Their cages have been next to each other for 2 weeks.

I was wondering what it means when both of the rabbits go up to each other nose to nose, ears up, sitting on the ground with their butts up. They seem to do this alot and they just sit there for a few minutes like that.

8/24/10

Lago and Leppy aren’t fighting and still want to be groomed by each other. So far neither rabbit is giving in yet, even as I try to simulate grooming. I tried smearing some banana on Leppy’s head and Lago has licked the banana off, but so far, they remain stubborn.

 

8/25/10

Neither of them are grooming each other still. I’ve tried the water droplets as well, but neither of them tried licking them off each other. Leppy wanted grooming and was being very insistent. He eventually nipped at Lago which started a small scuffle. After that, I forced them to snuggle and they both seemed to enjoy the pets I was giving them.

The last session was pretty bad. They started fighting, probably from the rejections for grooming. I am feeling pretty bad at this point. I can only hope tomorrow will be better.

 

8/26/10

The bonding session this morning went alot better than last night’s. At first there was a nip from an annoyed Leppy for not grooming, but he started giving up after a while and doing other things like eating. Lago felt comfortable enough to flop down around Leppy. He also stretched out nearby her.

One session later, they were doing okay for an hour, but then Leppy started a fight by getting frustrated from no grooming and nipping poor Lago. Lago wants grooming too, but it doesn’t seem as important to her. She likes to stretch out next to him if he doesn’t groom her.

So far they’re going from being okay to fighting, being okay, fighting. Usually Leppy starts the fight by being so insistent and nosing around Lago’s stomach or butt area. She gets mad and nips. It looked like things were going well too. Lago started grooming Leppy a little (that, or she was licking of banana remnants on his ears that dried).

 

8/27/10

There’s no real progress today. They’re still stuck at the no grooming stage and fighting because of that every once in a while.

 

8/28/10

They had three big fights today, I’m really not sure what to do..

 

8/29/10

They started off okay, eating together and stuff, and then Leppy nipped at Lago again and started a giant fight. It’s really not going well. I’ve tried later too, and it starts okay then they fight.

I’ve moved them to the living room. Things seem to be better and I’ve decided that if someone show any aggression, it’ll be in the laundry basket for both of them. (I was feeling pessimistic earlier, but I remembered I still have 3 weeks until school starts so hopefully they’ll be bonded by then.)

 

 RIP Bear

[Beka27]

That sounds like a request for grooming. They each want to be groomed, and they’ll sit like that til someone gives in. When they do that, you can “simulate” grooming by stroking each of their foreheads simultaneously.

[Helenor]

Okay cool. I’ll try that, thanks Beka!

[Helenor]

I’ve tried that, and it looks like they’re being very peaceful. The only thing is both of them are too selfish to groom the other back.

[Beka27]

It’s normal for them to not groom each other right away. Think of it in terms of a toddler entering preschool for the first time, they have to “learn how to play nice”. Neither bunny is probably used to being with others of their kind. Forced snuggling can be a helpful tool in bonding. You can also drip a bit of water on one of their foreheads and the natural instinct should be to clean the other bunny up.

[Helenor]

Okay, I’ll keep trying it. They both seem to enjoy the groom. I’ll try the water too.

[Helenor]

Is it normal for them to fight over grooming so much? Some of their fights over it are hard to stop from happening. I’m a bit worried that it’s keeping them from being on good terms.

[Helenor]

I’ve been reading up on what is happening with them and it seems like both bunnies want to be dominant. I’m not really sure who the dominant one is. Neither of them humped or anything. They just do the demand for grooms at the same time and it starts fights sometimes because both think they’re dominant, I guess. Is there anything I can do to find out who is dominant? Lago tends to nip at Leppy when he sniffs near her belly or behind.

[Helenor]

Has anyone been in a situation like this? Did it turn out okay? I’m losing hope really fast and I’m doubting this will work. Please, can anyone just let me know if there’s anything I can do or if I should just give up?

[Helenor]

Their fights are getting worse. I think I’ll give up at this point. Someone’s going to get hurt at this rate.

[Elrohwen]

Have you tried stressing them? I think you should go back to square one and do some sessions in the car or in a laundry basket (on the drier, or just while shaking it around). They need to be knocked out of their fight response and learn to be together peacefully.

Neither of my bunnies are big groomers and it took a couple weeks to see any grooming – even then it was a quick lick. They’ve been bonded for a few months and still hardly groom each other at all, but they’ve both learned to live with it and adjust. I think your two will be fine, you just need to try some new tactics and a new environment where they will be more stressed out and less likely to fight.

[Helenor]

I have tried stress bonding them early on. They didn’t seem particularly scared after a while. When I put them together in an x-pen, they are fine at first. They usually do things on their own or eat together. It’s the dominance fights that are killing their relationship. Neither of them wants to be submissive, so when one keeps demanding grooms, the other nips and starts a big fight. The fights are so scary and violent and it just makes me very sad and want to give up.

[Helenor]

I’ve tried putting them in the laundry basket and shaking things but a little and it seems to work. I’ve also put them in the living room in the x-pen where they both flop down nearish each other. Lago was in the living room before, but she does not seem territorial at all. (Thanks for the suggestion, Elrohwen!)

[Helenor]

Agh, they started fighting again. Leppy bit Lago in the nose after Lago wouldn’t groom him and it started bleeding a little bit. She got a cut on her nose, but it’s stopped bleeding. She is acting normal. Do I need to take her to a vet?

[Monkeybun]

Keep an eye on it, put some neosporin without pain meds on it, if it gets red and puffy, then take her in as it could be infected.

You can try a vacuum for stressing, none of my buns enjoy the vacuum at all! Put them in their pen, or laundry basket, and run the vacuum beside them. May work better than just shaking a laundry basket. But wait til the cut on Lago’s nose heals first.

[Helenor]

It’s a good suggestion, Monkeybun, but Lago doesn’t care about the vacuum cleaner. She still grooms herself and eats when I vacuum. I’m getting pretty tired of these fights and getting pretty stressed.

[Monkeybun]

Have you tried car rides? Car rides stress out alot of bunnies.

[Helenor]

I have tried them and after a while, they get used to it and try to hop out of the box. They don’t fight at all until Leppy gets tired of demanding grooms and nips Lago. Then Lago gets mad and bites back. Before the fights both are relaxed, eat together, flop near each other, etc. It’s just that they can’t figure out who the more dominant one is. Neither of them ever humped or showed any other signs of dominance besides demanding to be groomed.

[Monkeybun]

Well, sounds like they just need to work that part out. One thing that was suggested to me for bonding mine was to do car rides, and vary speeds. Change lanes often, drive down curvy roads. So they don’t get as used to a steady motion.

So it sounds like Leppy is just nipping Lago to remind her that it is his turn now for grooms. Lago needs to stop being so huffy about it

[Helenor]

Well, I ended up giving up.

It was getting to be too much. The constant fights and everything were so bad. They had been at the same place for three weeks. Leppy went back to the foster home he was at after he was rescued from the shelter.

Lago did find another rabbit she liked and bonded with him overnight. Bear was a very sweet, affectionate, giving rabbit. The only problem was that Bear had tons of problems that we didn’t know about. We knew about the cataracts and that the rescue would pay for it, but a week after we had him, he had to go to the vet because he stopped eating on his own. The vet found that he was bleeding internally and his chances of survival were really low. We had to have him euthanized. Even though we only had him for a week, we had gotten so attached to him. We (including Lago) got to see him before he was gone and everyone was in tears. The necropsy after showed that he had liver torsion and it cut off his blood supply. The blood eventually leaked out in his abdomen.

I don’t really know if I want to try another rabbit. The organization offered to pair her up with someone, but Lago really did have a special bond with Bear. I also have this unfortunate thought when I see other rabbits that they just aren’t the same as Bear. The sad part was that Lago never even groomed him once. She really was depressed for a few days. She wasn’t eating the first day and didn’t do much for 3 more days.

 

Rest in peace sweet rabbit..

[Sarita]

Oh, that is sad, hugs to you. I will light a candle for sweet Bear to cross the bridge. At least he got some extra special love in the short time he was with you and Lago.

[jerseygirl]

So sad! It sounds like Bear touched your heart. And even though it was a short time for Lago too, she will need some time. Bear has shown you that bonds can be easier. That picture of him with Lago is just precious! In time you might find another for Lago. Peace to you. *Binky Free Bear!*

[Helenor]

Bear was truly special and Lago really loved him. She doing alot better now and acting like herself again. I hope someday I can find someone just as special as Bear for Lago again.

Bear and Lago

[Author]

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