Bonding Archie, Gracie & Sandy…now with video

[skibunny8503]

Tomorrow we’re going to start the bonding process of our tro   We’re going to bond them in our spare bedroom and have a pen with a blanket as a neutral territory.  So far they have been “living” next to each other since Aug.  Archie and Gracie seem very interested in her but Sandy doesn’t see to interested in them.  I usually block the hallway when she’s out so she can’t get into the office/bunny room.  But today I put a make-shift gate from NIC cubes to block Sandy from going into the rest of the office but able to get to their cage.  Everything went very well!  Sandy didn’t seem fazed by them at all.  She sniffed their noses a bit but pretty much went on with her business as they looked on, maybe a bit mad at her for not paying attention to them haha!  Sandy had her nose through the gate and Gracie was sniffing her a lot but didn’t bite her at all!  So I’m crossing my fingers that Gracie is well behaved tomorrow.  We’ll let you know how it goes!!

[mrmac]

Good luck! Keep us posted!

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

That sounds promising!!

[skibunny8503]

So first bonding session didn’t go to well.  I knew it was going to be tough but I just hate seeing them fight.  We put a plate of greens for them to eat together but Archie and Sandy weren’t to interested in it and Gracie was pigging out on it.  Gracie nipped at Sandy before Gracie started pigging out.  Archie was all about the mounting.  He just wants some loving, he’s never about dominance I don’t think.  Sandy does NOT like being mounted.  The first time he mounted her she turned and nipped at him, but the second time after he finished she turned and lunged at him and had a good hold on him.  We seperated them right away.  And it was getting to much so we put Sandy back.  *sigh*  I never thought Sandy would be that aggressive, she’s always so cute.  Boy was I wrong!  I know this will be a long process but any advice anyone could give would be much appreciated!

[Deleted User]

Don’t be discouraged just yet or at all for that matter. That’s just how bunnies are half the time when they meet. Remember too that this is kind of scary for Sandy since she is young and I find young buns frighten more easily. Keep doing sessions. Don’t let them fight. If you see a lunge coming spray with water from a spray bottle or quickly put a hand broom between them. If you find it gets chaotic doing trio sessions, pick a pairing with Sandy and do sessions with two buns only.

edit: I have found that the scared bunnies bite the hardest. So watch out for Sandy not hurting Archie. A bite usually results in a serious lasting grudge and you have to deal with possible injury. Her fear *will* subside. You need to be the example of calm for her!

[skibunny8503]

Thanks for the advice Petzy! It is very scary seeing them attack like that. Archie is always so calm and he never fights and I felt so bad for him. I think we’ll do a bonding session between Gracie and Sandy later today. It was a bit funny with Gracie because she had this big plate of greens in front of her and her eyes got big and she’s just like “yeah you guys go ahead, I’m going to stay here and mind the food nom nom nom!”

[mrmac]

The first time my new boy met my girl she attacked him and he screamed. That was terrible, he had never been around another bunny before and his first meeting that happened. Do not get discouraged, it will take time and lots of patience. I ended up using the technique Petzy mentioned of pairing two and focusing on those two. For my three, three at once got to be too much and my old pair started ganging up on the new bun. Treats followed by mutual petting was good.

[skibunny8503]

I put Sandy in the bedroom and got Gracie and put her in with her.  They seem to start out ok, they put their heads together and I encouraged them by petting each one of their heads at the same time.  That was probably the only calm part of the session.  I let them go and one of them sniffed the other ones behind and nipped them.  I separated them and let them go.  They did this a few more times and each time I would separate them.  Gracie was sitting in the corner and sprayed it and that’s when Sandy went nuts.  She went towards her and they just full on attacked each other, it was scary!    I tried to pick up Sandy and she even tried to attack me! (luckilly I was wearing gloves)  I finally got ahold of Sandy and put her back and then put Gracie back.  So much for leaving it on a good note   There were a few tufts of fur in the room, pretty much equal from both rabbits.  I’m afraid to try stressing because I don’t want them to attack each other while we’re driving or on top of the washing machine.  

I think we’ll try the kitchen for our next session because it’s a more neutral territory (Sandy was in the spare room for awhile so she might have taken offence to Gracie spraying) and there’s laminate flooring in there so it might be harder to attack each other.

[Deleted User]

Don’t do a car ride without an assistant driving! There are lots of stress bonding methods, look for one, or make one up where you have the power to stop them at any point. The beginnings can be tough, b/c it can be confusing with so many different triggers for the hostilities. If you feel at a loss with the two girl buns, after you do the session in the kitchen, try Sandy with Archie first. Always do the easier bond first. I know, he already ticked Sandy off with mounting, but try these two again. I don’t know Archie’s personality but this is an option.

[skibunny8503]

Posted By Petzy on 09/21/2009 06:14 PM
Don’t do a car ride without an assistant driving! There are lots of stress bonding methods, look for one, or make one up where you have the power to stop them at any point. The beginnings can be tough, b/c it can be confusing with so many different triggers for the hostilities. If you feel at a loss with the two girl buns, after you do the session in the kitchen, try Sandy with Archie first. Always do the easier bond first. I know, he already ticked Sandy off with mounting, but try these two again. I don’t know Archie’s personality but this is an option.

Oh no, I’d never drive alone but they are so intense that I’m afraid the driver would be distracted to or I’d need help breaking it up.  Sandy is so hard to control…I really want to file her nails down (they’re pretty sharp and hard to see since they’re dark) but I don’t think she trusts me one bit.  She used to be calm when I held her and now she freaks out, it’s like ever since she got spayed she doesn’t trust humans and I probably made it worse chasing her around the office tryingn to keep her still.  I gave up though.    Archie is pretty laid back and doesn’t really fight but he loves to mount..he reminds me of BB’s Jack trying to mount Vivian all the time.  He’s calmed down with Gracie and hardly does it (but sometimes she lets him do it if she’s distracted by food).  What if Gracie attacks Archie because he smells like Sandy? 

[Deleted User]

I just said that about the driving assistant b/c some bunnies can really fight even on a shaky ride. I wanted to put that out there. not saying you were planning to do a ride alone.

hmmm, I was under the assumption it was Sandy who instigated the nipping etc… but if Gracie showed aggression, too, then for Archie to have Sandy’s scent could be detrimental. — Yes, Skibunny, you’re already in the middle of a triangle…
You don’t have to try it out with Archie.
Sandy could be going through a feisty teenage bun phase… she’s young, isn’t she?
Find a space to use for Sandy and Gracie every time, so they will know they have to expect meeting each other there. Sandy will eventually get calmer. Have you tried a spray bottle to see if it will break up chasing etc.? If the sessions are intense and stressful, just do really short ones for the first while, like even 10 minutes.

[skibunny8503]

Sandy seems more aggressive than Gracie, Gracie will nip a little but Sandy was the one that really attacked her so she attacked back. Sandy seems like the “Don’t you dare sniff me!” type. Maybe if we do Gracie and Sandy first she’ll eventually calm down and get used to other rabbits. It just doesn’t seem like Archie would be able to defend himself as well as Gracie. He’s so laid back and friendly.
I know the spray bottle doesn’t work on Archie and not to well on Gracie (they got soaked during their bonding session haha!) but hopefully it’ll work on Sandy. I took Gracie into the room and I forgot a cellphone to keep track of the time, raisins to reward them, and the spray bottle  Brett was asleep so I couldn’t yell for him although he eventually came out when they started fighting and I was yelling for them to stop oops! I’ll be more prepared next time I’m giong to wait until he wakes up, he’s on midnight shift, so I can have some backup….it was quite scary doing that by myself and hard to separate them.

[Deleted User]

Scary is the word! Backup is a good idea I ended up making a little ‘tool box’ just for bonding. A $store plastic box with lid. It had the heavy gloves, little broom, spray bottle, band-aids, hand towel, plastic bag (mrmac’s tip: makes ruffle sound and frightens some buns), jar with pennies (well, I used a ceramic piggy bank), and treats (for rabbits and me, sessions can be long, LOL!)
good luck today!

[mrmac]

Good luck! Hopefully Gracie and Sandy get less intense wiht eachother.

[skibunny8503]

Ok today was a bit better and I was a little more prepared.  I brought in the little hand vac that my husband suggested because when we clean it always scares Sandy, so that would be helpful during a scuffle.  I did the session by myself because we were out most of the day and my husband took an hour nap because he’s on midnight shifts.  I hate to skip a day of bonding, I want to keep on going with these sessions every day.  So I had my gloves, the hand vac, I don’t have a little broom so I got a duster to block them, and some raisins (my water bottle isn’t working right it just mists ).  I took Gracie and Sandy into the kitchen and blocked it off the doorway.  The kitchen is a good size, it’s a straight kitchen.  I moved the garbage can so they could see each other.  They got by each other and nipped a bit and I separated them.  Sandy went down the one end in the corner and was breathing heavy….she was scared.  Gracie was in the other corner….what is this, bunny boxing??    They stayed in their corners for a while.  I pushed Gracie to come down to Sandy but she got so far and smelled her and turned away…..so Sandy is scared of Gracie and Gracie just doesn’t care for Sandy.  So I let them be.  They  had a good distance between them…maybe 10+ feet.  I know it’s a lot of distance but I want to take this slow and don’t want to push Sandy into doing something she’s not yet comfortable with.  I sat in the middle of them.  Sandy was breathing heavily and I gave both of them raisins and she calmed down a bit.

Sandy finally broke the silence and hopped over by Gracie, who I might add already had a fortress of poo around here for protection .  Sandy sniffed her poo very carefully trying to figure out if it was hers or not as Gracie looked on and then at me like “she isn’t going to get closer is she…I hope not!”  Sandy then hopped back to her corner realizing it was the evil white and black bunny’s poo.  They both sat in their corners again.  Gracie started at me like “I am so disappointed in you!  Tomorrow morning you will wake up to lots of poo to clean up muahahaha!”  Sandy broke the silence again and hopped over to look at Gracie closer.  They had about 5 or so inches between them which made me so nervous as I hovered over them with the duster in my hands….I think I was more scared than them with my heart beating fast.  They just stood there staring at each other, waiting for the other to make a move.  I quickly got the two raisins on the counter and gave them to them and petted them.  I wanted to end the session before there was an attack.  The session lasted 35 min.!  I know they didn’t do much and thtey were far apart most of the time but I’m pretty happy how it went.

[mrmac]

The less that happens is often the best. Even if you just sit with them all day and it is completely uneventful, it is better than fighting. Have you tried sitting them next to eachother, push their heads to the floor and give them mutual pets. You rub the ears on the opposite one. Have you tried offering treats and having them come to you jointly for them? I hope tomorrows sessions go well!

[skibunny8503]

Posted By mrmac on 09/22/2009 07:01 PM
The less that happens is often the best. Even if you just sit with them all day and it is completely uneventful, it is better than fighting. Have you tried sitting them next to eachother, push their heads to the floor and give them mutual pets. You rub the ears on the opposite one. Have you tried offering treats and having them come to you jointly for them? I hope tomorrows sessions go well!

I’ll try that tomorrow, thanks!  Sandy just looked scared to death so I didn’t want to do to much today but tomorrow I’ll try to go a bit further.  I might make the space smaller so they can be closer together too.

[Deleted User]

Wow! 35 minutes? If you were able to have them together without a fight or serious intervention for that long I’d say this isn’t going to be half as hard a bond as some. Woohoo!!!! And: you now know some facts to help you read them better in future sessions (Sandy scared/Gracie trying to ignore her)
— three smileys for the tri-bond in the making!

[skibunny8503]

Well today’s session went pretty much the same for about the same amount of time. Hubby was there to help and he was just as scared they were going to attack as I was. I keep hovering over them when they get close and I’m too afraid for them to get near each other. Sandy seems a little more curious about Gracie but Gracie just sat in her corner…I think she’s scared and defensive. I’d rather have both of them meet in the middle because Gracie just sits in that corner and I don’t want her to feel like Sandy is blocking her… Gracie was the one doing the nipping…she nipped by her nose and her butt. They also started “marking” their territory IE peeing! AH! At least it’s laminate flooring, but still, I’d rather have poo because at least I can see it. I was able to stop Sandy twice from peeing but she left a trailer by the dishwasher and Gracie peed too. yuck. Am I being too protective and should I back off? Just the look in Gracie’s eyes…I just know she’s going to attack but I don’t know how to let her know she has nothing to fear.

[mrmac]

She will never realize that fully. I hovered over mine too during bonding. Then I got to the point of being able to read their expressions and movements. At some point you will just have to sit back and see what happens but always being there in case it turns ugly. Me and my huband used to sit, like at either end of our kitchen, and spread our legs open and put our feet together and just keep them in the little area so there were no corners to be protective over or hide in. Eww marking pee…Come on Gracie and Sandy!!!

[Deleted User]

Skibun, how about the bathtub? It is harder for them to fight in a slippery tub. They tend to be busy looking for an escape route which you would, off course, block (i.e. keep them from jumping out). Even if you could get them to sit in the tub, scared and confused for a while, it will give you time and opportunity for scent transfer.

[skibunny8503]

Well the only problem with the bathtub is that we only have one small bathroom and it’s a shower/tub and we have sliding doors so it’s a bit hard.  We tried it with Archie and Gracie and only one person could fit by the doors and the track kept hitting my stomach which wasn’t to comfy. 

Another session today.  It didn’t last as long but I had to take a shower and my hubby had to take an hour nap before his midnight shift, so we made it quick, lasted for about 10 min.  It went a little better.  We put the x-pen up and cut the room in 1/2 so they had less separation.  Gracie is now being the instigator in nipping.  BUT she did go by Sandy and hop by her without biting yay!  She did go to sniff her head later and got a piece of fur from Sandy’s head…poor girl was scared!  Gracie peed again   But at least we switched it to the kitchen or we’d be cleaning the carpet like crazy!  This weekend (when we get more clothes) we’re going to do a load of luandry and put them in a basket up top.  So far I cannot find anything that fazes Gracie   We did the water bottle before, nope, vaccuum doesn’t scare her, a container of money scares the poop out of Sandy but Gracie didn’t budge.  She is going to be a tough one, she is so stubborn.

[Deleted User]

Oh, no bathtub. OK. There are other ways. It’s a good point that you raise, about comfortable; the spot for bonding sessions has to be comfortable for the human to do the job right. If you have something hitting your stomach that could compromise the session!! LOL.
About the spray bottle, do you have one that does one strong steady squirt? You need to hit them wiith that single stream squirt in close range square on the forehead. It is not easy actually, as these are moving targets, and you have to make sure not to get their eyes, or ears. Maybe this method isn’t for Gracie… –What about a plastic bag, how does Gracie react if you ruffle a crinkled bag on by her ears? Well, maybe the ride on the washer will freeze her up a bit. Good luck today.

[skibunny8503]

Ugh I had another bonding session.  We’re doing laundry probably tomorrow, so maybe they’ll get along better….who knows.  Kept them together for about 45 min.  It was either in their corners or fighting.  Gracie will not get near Sandy without biting her.  I even tried making them cuddle while petting them and Gracie turned her head and tried to nip her.    It was just me bonding since hubby was taking a nap.  I tried to take a video of what goes on but didn’t do to well.  The first one was the big fight.  I wasn’t holding the camera, I just aimed it and put it on the floor.  It took me a bit to break them apart because when I pushed Sandy away she started to attack my glove and wouldn’t let go.  I had to eventually take my glove off (that’s when I was like “Hey!”) and the second is basically what they did most of the time.  Gracie peed once but it wasn’t a spray because she peed everywhere….should I put a litter box in with them or save that for later?  Sandy didn’t even go by Gracie this time, she must have been scared of her.  They attacked like 3 times but it only lasted a second or two…break it up as soon as I could.  I don’t want to see anyone get hurt.  And yes that’s  a big hunk of Sandy’s fur in the first video that Gracie got…..she looks so innocent like “wah?  I didn’t do nothin’, it waz all herz fault!”

 

[mrmac]

Have you tried any stress bonding? Putting them in a small box and (sounds bad) but kinf od shake it a little? This worked well with mine, or does Gracie go after Sandy everytime they are near eachother? This sounds kind of bad too but like scaring them into turning to eachother? Sometimes when Delilah would attack Dexter or even try and go for him I would do like a imitated nip to her. I hope the next one goes a little better!

[Deleted User]

It is time for stress bonding to stop Gracie from hurting Sandy. Try the “earthquake” mrmac describes (shaky box) but it may not stop Gracie, I had a bunny like that myself. You could then try “wet feet” method: put the two in a sink together with a half inch of water in it. Wear your heavy glove and be ready in case one jumps. As long as you can get them to sit together you can pet lots, I mean petting them flat, you know,  and transfer the scent and get it into Gracie’s head that this new bunny is not going away. Repeat.

This is Clifford and Roger during their fighting phase. They couldn’t do anything in that sink.

If  Gracie decides to hump Sandy in the sink, let her, but pet Sandy’s head to keep her calm.

The wet feet feeling really throws most bunnies off.

[skibunny8503]

Thanks for the advice Petzy!  We tried the “earthquake” method today.  We put Gracie in first and my husband started shaking it.  She was a bit freaked out and then we put Sandy in.  Sandy nipped her first and then Gracie went right after her.  It was hopeless, they still attacked each other.  We thought about the wet foot method but when we give Gracie a foot bath she gets really fiesty and so we thought maybe that would be a bad idea.  I don’t think anything fazes Gracie.  I think stress bonding won’t do anything for those two, they’re too stubborn.  I think with Gracie’s previous owners abusing her that nothing can really frighten her.  And also her being forced to “mate” with a male (which was actually a female) was probably a tramatic experience and so she doesn’t like females at all.  I’m having serious doubts that they could ever be bonded.  Are we doing this to early??  Maybe we should wait a few more months when Sandy’s older. 

[Deleted User]

I had no idea about Gracie’s background. That makes sense, it could make her very tough to stress. Hmm…. Since these are your bunnies you can take all the time in the world and take a big break. But I will suggest one more thing. Gracie knows this is her house, even the ‘neutral’ zones. Could you take her somewhere to ‘date’ with Sandy?

[skibunny8503]

We have my parents house we could go to.  What about outside?  If that doesn’t work we’ll take a break and maybe try bonding after the holidays.  A lot tougher than I thought it would be, that’s for sure!

[Deleted User]

Outside is a great place and I would opt for that.
It is your call, but remember, even if months go by, you will be back where you started, Gracie isn’t going to change about this. It depends on how much you are willing to put Gracie through… and I totally understand your hesitation since you want the best for her in all things. But don’t  say “they can’t be bonded” just yet… it is way early to determine this . Outside or your parents’ place, any one of these is a great new starting point. But even there you will need to use stress. Try to find the one thing that does faze Gracie.

[skibunny8503]

Hey guys, well I haven’t bonded Gracie and Sandy for a few days now because I have been sick this week and have been on the couch resting.  I’ve been feeling a little bit better though today.  Since stopping the bonding Gracie has been a little bratty.  The one night I was showing them their lettuce bowl for them to go to their cage and she lunged at Archie.  I put her aside and told her no.  She’s been staring at Sandy all the time either a longing for her or a plan of attack stare…not sure but probably guessing the second one.  Archie seemed a bit pissed off because Gracie has been staring at Sandy and not paying as much attention to him.  Yesterday he kept trying to get groomed and while she isn’t the type to groom that much, she wouldn’t groom him and he finally got fed up and started to mount her.  I finally put the cardboard between the cages because I was afraid they might fight (even though I’ve never seen them do that and they’re more the type that just does the “silent treatment” and go in opposite corners when they’re mad).  My  husband woke up this morning to find Gracie “trying” to mount Archie but he’s to quick and she’s not good at running on the lino floor.  So he put the cardboard back again.  But yesterday morning and this morning they both kept acting up, digging and even peed until I took the cardboard away and then they seemed find.  So I don’t get it….does Gracie want to bond with Sandy or not….she seems to be acting up.  Should I start the bonding process up again?  They fuss when I have the cardboard between them and when it’s not they stare at Sandy.  

[Deleted User]

I’m not surprised. — Gracie seems like a smart cookie from what you have posted about her. She knows Sandy lives in her house and is probably itching to show her who’s in charge. If it were me, I’d work on the bonding, once daily/every other day — whatever suits your schedule and nerves. This may take time. Slowly get Gracie used to Sandy’s presence as the new status quo in “her” house. Bonding isn’t necessarily about matching two bunnies for love; many times it’s just getting them to tolerate one another. Have you been able to figure out a stressor for Gracie, something that will stop her even in attack mode?

[skibunny8503]

Posted By Petzy on 09/30/2009 05:22 PM
I’m not surprised. — Gracie seems like a smart cookie from what you have posted about her. She knows Sandy lives in her house and is probably itching to show her who’s in charge. If it were me, I’d work on the bonding, once daily/every other day — whatever suits your schedule and nerves. This may take time. Slowly get Gracie used to Sandy’s presence as the new status quo in “her” house. Bonding isn’t necessarily about matching two bunnies for love; many times it’s just getting them to tolerate one another. Have you been able to figure out a stressor for Gracie, something that will stop her even in attack mode?

We’re thinking on Saturday we might drive them out to my parents house and then put them in a x-pen and see how they are since they’ll be a bit freaked from the car ride and being in a new environment.  Yeah I’ll just be happy if Gracie can tollerate Sandy.  I just don’t want Archie to get ganged up on by both females…my poor baby.  I know I shouldn’t pick favs and I love them all but Archie will always be my little guy   I might try bonding tomorrow since I don’t have much time tonight.  I’ll post an update and hope it goes better than last time….I just hate it when they fight.

[skibunny8503]

Well it has been awhile since we bonded Gracie and Sandy.  My husband’s work schedule has been all over the place and during his free time we’re either cleaning up the place or have to go out somewhere.  So today we put some time aside and started the bonding process again.  We didn’t let them get to close but continued to pet them near each other.  I had an idea to put the xpen up and seperate them because we got so nervous when they got near each other that well we really didn’t let them get near each other.  So what we’re planning on doing is leaving the xpen between them in the kitchen so that they can get near each other and sniff through the bars and might be able to nip a little but won’t be able to get in a full on fight.  And when they can get used to each other without nipping through the bars, we’ll remove the xpen and see how they are.  If they fight we’ll put it back up.  It’ll probably be a long process but it’s the most comfortable right now.  Maybe sometime soon they can go on a car ride, but for now we’ll try this. 

[skibunny8503]

We have been doing a steady bonding going on 3 days in a row now woohoo!  Still have the xpen seperating them.  I’m not sure if this is progress or not but last night they started to sniff each other through the gate.  Gracie would sniff sometimes and immiediately turn away….she did not want to be bonded, she’s tried to jump the little gate to the dining room twice.  She did not make it over though but she did give me quite a scare!  They did start to nip each other a little and I pushed Gracie away (I think she started it).  Later on they sniffed each other again and did a little nipping which turned into “I’m going to bite your head off!” attack mode.  Luckially the gate helped from them really attacking each other.  

[Deleted User]

Skibunny, it’s not bad, you know? There could be way more aggression like frantic boxing and digging at the bars. I think you did the right thing by just presenting Gracie with the visual and scent of Sandie before having any more face-to-face meets. I would use this phase to try and determine a stressor that will stop Gracie from attacking. Did you ever get a decent spray bottle that squirts well? You could practice your aiming skills on Gracie when she goes into attack mode, or try if touching her flank in those aggressive moments with a bunched up pastic bag will startle her enough to stop her. Push her head down with your hand when she acts like that. Also, I used to make a certain noise before I used the stressor so that at some point that noise alone wouldl make them stop. My noise was “tshshshshshsh!” -You coud scream or whatever you like.

[skibunny8503]

I’ve kept it going pretty much all week except for 2 days.  It’s been a little boring but it’s been about the same.  Sometimes Gracie will sniff at Sandy and won’t do anything and other times she starts to nip.  I didn’t use the spray bottle yet (have to go find it and see if it works) but I don’t think it worked on her when we bonded her with Archie; but I’ll try again.  I got a bag out today and it startled Sandy a little but Gracie didn’t move an inch!  She’s a stubborn little bun, that’s for sure!  Gracie seems to be lonely and almost worried or something.  So today I brought in Archie with her to maybe give her peace of mind that we’re not replacing anyone.  Archie and Gracie cuddled a bit.  They were even all (well I kind of made Archie) laying next to each other (with Sandy through the fence).  In the beginning Gracie was leaving cecals everywhere….I’m not sure if that means anything or maybe her glands need clean (we’re doing that tomorrow), she also peed.  And then Sandy peed.  But I don’t think it was territorial, they just didn’t have a litter box to go to the bathroom in.  Luckilly it was on laminate flooring.  I was waiting for Archie to pee but he did, thank goodness haha!  They stayed together for about an hour.  Hopefully we’ll get out on a car ride soon.  Oh and the dishwasher (which is pretty loud for a rabbit) kicked on during the session and frightened Sandy a little but Gracie….didn’t budge

[Deleted User]

If nothing startles Gracie to the point that she will stop whatever she is doing, you may want to try holding her down in a restraining way when introducing Sandy again. Like on the car ride (assuming Gracie won’t freeze from the motion under her either) you might have to hold on to Gracie in a way that you can push down her head if she goes for the attack. You know Gracie and you know when that moment is.

[mrmac]

The other night I found something that scares the bunny poo out of all of mine. A garbage bag full of empty aluminum cans or glass bottles being sheken around. That’s how we collect our recycling and they always freak out thwn you move the bag. Maybe something like this would be enough to scare Gracie?! Just a though!

[Deleted User]

Skibunny, I would certainly give mac’s Recycling-Monster a go. When you get to a pen set-up again with the two rabbit ladies together and Gracie wants to charge — shake the monster close-by.

[Karla]

Petzy is defintely the bonding expert here, so I don’t have much to add. But have you tried with changing toilet boxes and dummy bunnies between them, so they can get used to each other’s smells?

Also, MarkBun was suggesting in another thread that you hold the two bunnies close to your chest (you need help from someone). This way they are close to each other and you can pet them. And they cannot fight. I thought this was a really good idea but thankfully never had the need to try it. He showed a picture of it. I will see if I can find it.

[Deleted User]

Posted By Karla on 11/06/2009 10:52 AM
Petzy is defintely the bonding expert here, so I don’t have much to add. But have you tried with changing toilet boxes and dummy bunnies between them, so they can get used to each other’s smells?

Also, MarkBun was suggesting in another thread that you hold the two bunnies close to your chest (you need help from someone). This way they are close to each other and you can pet them. And they cannot fight. I thought this was a really good idea but thankfully never had the need to try it. He showed a picture of it. I will see if I can find it.

 

Thanks Karla! There are a few people on here that had tough bonds. The tougher the bond, the more you learn. — Now I’m not discounting your experience with your instant trio bond. I still believe it had a lot to do with you moving apartments. This reminds me, Skibunny: are you still planning to take your bonding to your parents’ place at some point? Would be a good idea especially if you can stay overnight.

Look in mrmac’s trio bonding, Skibunny, her scenario was similar to yours as the resident female, Delilah, was not wanting to accept the new bunny and neither did her resident male Davey. Here is a link you her videos.

https://www.binkybunny.com/FORUM/tabid/54/a…fault.aspx

Here is the actual bonding thread and Markbun’s demonstration of holding the rabbits is on page 3. It was a hard bond.

https://www.binkybunny.com/FORUM/tabid/54/a…fault.aspx

 

edit: Skibun, here is a video of one of my bonds in its early stages. The video was taken when things had improved.!!! You can see that the lop bunny runs away from the attacking agouti bun. In the first sessions he didn’t and it was really intense. That’s where the stressor to stop them is indispensable. (Have you found one yet?) I embed it here because I do believe it’s a realistic goal for Gracie and Sandie at this point. The worst scenario is two buns wanting to attack one another. The two buns in the video did that for the first 2 weeks in daily sessions. So I was happy when one decided to run instead.

[skibunny8503]

I am not doing very well with bonding….I haven’t done it in the past few days. Before we tried a bunch of penny’s in a tuberware container and didn’t do anything for Gracie lol! Their cages are right next to each other (only about 2 inches apart) and they can lay next to each other, they’ve never tried to attack each other from their cages. Gracie will watch her though sometimes. We switched them and left them there the entire night and they had no problem. I put Sandy’s bunny in their cage and Archie groomed it a bit and Gracie sniffed it but no attacking. I have to groom Gracie and put some fur in a bunny slipper. But Gracie is pretty smart, she knows that’s a fake bunny and knows she can’t do any harm from inside the cage.
Haha oh man, I haven’t tried holding them for sake of Sandy biting my neck lol! I’ve tried to separate them and Sandy went right for the glove and wouldn’t let go…she scares me when she attacks haha! Maybe I’ll put 5 sweatshirts on and try it hehe I am going to buckle down and do bonding every day…it’s just hard when the husband works and wants to just catch up on tv at night .

[Deleted User]

Posted By skibunny8503 on 11/08/2009 07:48 PM

I am not doing very well with bonding….(…) .it’s just hard when the husband works and wants to just catch up on tv at night .

 

You can do it Skibun, even on your own. You’re right to protect yourself ,  bonding bunnies can injure you.

I’d stick with using a grocery bag with empty cans in it because you can touch Gracie with it and scare her off. At the very least it should help you with slowing her down and being able to grab her/push her head to the ground  when she wants to attack. I would also try the sink with an inch of water in it and set them both in it. When it comes to preventing a fight or breaking one up it can require serious measures if it involves hostile bunnies. When I bonded Clifford and Valmore I had trouble finding stressors that kept working, I couldn’t even break them up using a large broom, barking dogs, motion rides or vacuum cleaner so I had a cup of room temperature water nearby to dump on them in case they latched onto one another. I did have to use it twice and it saved them from bloodshed. You might not have it that bad, but for your own peace of mind, have a cup of water ready to know you can break it up even if everything gets out of hand. This is reallly helpful when you don’t have an assistant. Of course, if your rabbits end up wet at all, keep them snuggly warm after.

[skibunny8503]

I will have to ask my parents for some cans since we don’t have any around our house, lol I know we’re strange We have a sink in our basement that is deep, my biggest worry is if they try to jump out, but as long as we both stand around it they should be ok.  Well I thought we were going to go on a car ride today but now he’s tired so I’m not sure.   I’m determined to do a car ride this week no matter what.  So I’m sure I’ll post something soon about it.  Hopefully that will work as some stressor.

[skibunny8503]

We just got done with our bonding session and I am so so so happy!!!  We took them in the car and drove on the highway down to Wal-mart (we needed some groceries anyways ) , they stayed in the car with my husband while I picked up a few things really quick.  It was dark and raining to make things even more stressful.  We went back home the long way and brought them straight to the basement.  We set up the xpen and let them out.  This is the same area Parsnip would play in sometimes, so her scent was still all over the place and so was her litter box that we also used for them.  I so surprised that they didn’t go after each other like they normally did.  I only had to push Sandy away once because for some reason she was trying to eat Gracie’s hair from her behind (like light nipping maybe) and then Gracie attacked Sandy but I quickly seperated them and I don’t think Sandy attacked back.  Towards the end Gracie seemed more comfortable, so we ended it then with a treat and some pets.  We can tell when she’s about to attack now when her ears move forwards just a tad.  They also were nose to nose (groom me postion) and nothing!!    I think Gracie attacked Sandy because they were nose to nose but Gracie wasn’t getting anything and Sandy isn’t used to “groom me” and Gracie hardly grooms.  We took a little bit of video.  Gracie really didn’t eat the greens but Sandy pigged out on them.  No one laid down either but Gracie did clean herself.  They stayed their distance but yet when they got near each other they didn’t attack (except the times I mentioned).  Oh and they also both used the litter box.  Gracie sat in it and peed and Sandy outside watching waiting her turn, so there was no territorial thing with that.

I’m uploading the video now….I’ll post it as soon as it’s done.

[skibunny8503]

Here’s the video:

[Monkeybun]

Well that is certainly an improvement! *keeps fingers crosses*

[Moonlight_Wolf]

Looks like they are making progress

[skibunny8503]

We did another car ride tonight. What we’ve been doing is putting them in separate cages facing each other, drove 15 min. to my father-in-law’s house and then back home. The reason why I haven’t put them together in the car is because I want to get to at least tolerate each other first because they were so fixed on attacking each other, I didn’t want it to get too intense in the car. Another session or so, and we’ll put them in separate cages and while my husband is driving I’ll put them both in a laundry basket and see how they do.
They did ok today, not as good as yesterday but they still tolerated each other. They pretty much ignored each other most of the time. Gracie got a little territorial over the litter box but let her go in it (while her ears were pointed forward and she was giving her a look haha!). Gracie nipped her twice. The first time Sandy didn’t even move and the second time Sandy started to defend herself a bit but I stopped them. I think we’re making a little progress, it’s slow but we’re getting somewhere….I hope.
When should I put Sandy and Archie together?

[Deleted User]

If it was me and my rabbits, I would not present Archie to Sandy at this point. The bonding to Gracie is stressful for Sandy and you don’t want to overwhelm her. I would wait with that until Sandy and Gracie tolerate each other without attacks from Gracie. It is a safe strategy to complete one bond first before moving on to the next, at least in trios or quartetts that involve one or more tough bonds.

[MarkBun]

Here’s a quick advert I did with my bonding issues. Just so you know things can be ugly and still work out:

[Author]

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