Bonding Adventures of Peter and Little-Bit (BONDED!!)

[Binkles]

Well, they had their second date today. I thought it went pretty well. Peter was more assertive this time. It seemed like he and Little-Bit traded places. He was following Little-Bit around a bunch and I thought for sure he would mount her! He was very curious. He wound up lunging at her a few times. I could be wrong but don’t THINK either party got an actual nip in. Little-Bit actually didn’t lunge at all but she didn’t like Peter’s lunges either.

I am not certain -should I squirt at lunges too or just nips? I didn’t squirt at any just-lunges.

I don’t know but it seems to me like Little-Bit got to test the waters with Peter the first date they went on and Peter got to test the waters with Little-Bit this time. After the first ten minutes or so both settled down and laid down at a distance. They were both still eyeballing each other intensely but Peter seemed to become his usual floppy chill self. Though he would joust his head out really quickly at Little-Bit if she got too close. Little-Bit was still pretty tense but I think she’s beginning to realize that he doesn’t actually pose a threat to her. There was a LOT of ignoring and a LOT of staring.

After we threw a little oat hay into the works it seemed to ease the nerves of both bunnies considerably. Little-Bit is dead-to-the-world when she’s eating hay (the world could be exploding behind her and she wouldn’t notice) and Peter didn’t seem to mind sharing it with her. We ended the session after both bunnies layed out in SEMI-close proximity. Little-Bit faces Peter when she’s laying down, but Peter doesn’t mind turning his back to her when he’s laying down at all. Actually he flopped and closed his eyes several times with his back to her. She even sniffed his feet and belly while he was flopped and he barely flinched!

I think they’ve come a good distance today. Still tense of course but I think they’ve begun to get the hang of it today.

I also think that Peter’s assertiveness/ aggression today may have something to do with the fact that 1. He’s getting more comfortable being in the house, and 2. I took him to the vet yesterday and he FLIPPED OUT. Like, REALLY bad. (Thank God Dr. Hall is so attentive to the fact that bunnies can hurt themselves and that she knows how to restrain them when they do, because…God…the last time I’d had a bunny spook like that….) He was so exhausted and scared when we got home that he just hid for the rest of the afternoon. He was fine and dandy by the end of the evening, but I think that he may have still had some residual apprehension with being picked up today.

[Elrohwen]

That sounds pretty good to me! They’re definitely testing each other out and are a bit wary, but over time they’ll learn to trust one another. I hope you’ll have more pics to show us too 😉

[Binkles]

Oh I will! I just didn’t get a lot of shots yesterday because nothing much different happened. Lol. There is one of them sitting togeher and Peter putting his head over Little-Bit’s back though. That only lasted for seconds of course, but it’s on camera none the less. :p

[Binkles]

Well we’re taking a break from any sort of activity that may be strenuous on Peter for a few days because I feel that he needs some time to settle into his new home and get to know us. When I took him to the vet it really freaked him out, and last night when I tried to bring him on the couch to snuggle with me he HATED it. When I put him back in his enclosure he gave me the cold shoulder and has been running into his cage and flopping whenever I come in the room now or touch the door to the x-pen.

I think he needs some time to become un-shell-shocked. Poor boy. He’s so sweet.

[Elrohwen]

You can give him some time, but I wouldn’t give him too much time. I’ve been advised to bond right away before the new bunny is able to get truly comfortable and feel like any part of the house is “his space”. This might’ve been more of a concern with my new female though, as it was obvious that she was feisty and would quickly become queen of the house if I didn’t bond her right away.

Maybe give him a week and then try. Hannah’s still a bit nervous about us, but she’ll often come up to me during bonding sessions and ask for pets, so I’ve been able to bond with her while I’ve been bonding her with Otto.

[Binkles]

Oh, I definitely wouldn’t wait more than a few days. I’m just wanting him to cool off a bit from having his world turned upside-down the past week. Right now, these past few days, I think it would be working against them to try dating since Peter has had so much happen to him in the past few days. I think he’s a little overly defensive right now.

I’ll probably get back to dating them either tomorrow or the next day.

[Elrohwen]

That sounds like a good time frame to me! When Hannah had her teeth worked on I suspended bonding for a few days too.

[Binkles]

Oi geez, I apologize for the lack of updates but there hasn’t been anything to update on. I had to take a longer break than expected because I got a random arm injury in the middle of the week. As pathetic as it sounds I literally have NO idea how it happened but somehow I managed to bruise a few of my muscles pretty badly and could barely move my right arm at all for about three days. Today it finally seems to have healed itself. THANK GOD. So we had our third bonding session today.

I have more pictures and I took some video this time, so I’ll have to make sure and upload those.

Today was 2 and a half hours long. The first two hours were pretty non-eventful. Lots of ignoring, lots of staring, lots or requests (and denials) for grooming from both buns. It was very clear that both bunnies very much want to be top bun, but there hasn’t been any mounting yet. Just lots of thumping/ grooming requests. Finally at about the two hour mark Little-Bit seemed to get fed up and became super super insistent on being groomed…and Peter gave in! He groomed her several times tonight (and came over and groomed me too, it’s like his kisser was suddenly switched on). Little-Bit tolerates it when he grooms her head and ears but she freaks out and runs/ growls when he tries to go anywhere past her shoulders. (Hey, I don’t blame her. I wouldn’t want anyone trying to go past my shoulders on the third date either!)

So I think tonight was a good step forward. The only real problem continues to be Little-Bit’s hypersensativity to…well everything. Movement, sound, touch. She’s very defensive, but at least we’ve gotten to first base. Should I be concerned that neither is mounting though? Should Little-Bit groom Peter at some point?

Also, when should I bring a litterbox into the equation?

[jerseygirl]

That’s a great session! On mounting – I wouldn’t be worried in the least. Grooming is not always present between two buns either. I would encourage Little Bit to groom if Peter is requesting it, getting denied and becoming aggressive because of it. Otherwise, I’d leave it be. She’s probably learning how from getting groomed by him.

As to her hypersensitivity, I think this will lessen as they become accustom to each other. It’s been a while for her since she’s had someone down there at her level (other than yourself). Jersey still comes skittering out of corners when Rumball has entered and it’s spooked her.

I hear you on the mysterious injuries!! I had/have this with my knee for a month. No idea what happened. Maybe you’ve been picking Peter up for cuddles. Repetitive strain injury?

[Binkles]

Peter is the opposite of aggressive. (Little-Bit just needs to understand this :p) I think he has tried to nip her one or two times in the past but he spends 98% of his bonding time laid out or flopped out next to the side of the x-pen. He’s so chill. Doesn’t barely even flinch when Little-Bit sniffs his feet or tummy in this position. He doesn’t feel threatened by her at all — Little-Bit just needs to realize that he doesn’t pose a threat to her either. I think she’s getting there, slowly but surely.

I really don’t know. I haven’t been picking up Peter THAT much. And what ever it was resulted in in an actual visible bruise, which is odd because I know it extended all the way down into my muscle. Can’t remember a damn thing that would have caused something that extensive. xD But it’s pretty much over now, thank God.

[Balefulregards]

I had to giggle Binkles…

I wrote this about Jackson and Coco during one of their bonding posts:

I have noticed that he gets a bit “jealous” when I am rubbing her for too long and will sneak up and try to mount her when she is all zen like that. I won’t let him and he boxes at me with his paws. He threw in a few nip attempts this morning – not hard bites, but nips for sure and the front digging paws motion. I turned him away with my hand and blocked her out of sight. Maybe i am inhibiting their bond, but I feel like she has done a really good job sharing her space and some uninterrupted grooming with no one sneaking up and jumping on you only seems fair.

I know it is silly but I keep thinking “If I was at the salon having my head massaged and shampooed and suddenly my not quite kinda boyfriend jumped on my head and starting humping away – I would be PISSED”

which is what I am thinking Little Bit is experiencing…the not-kinda boyfriend, but I like him but GEESH every time I turn my back on him its like he thinks it is an invitation.

It sounds like a really great start – they seem to have compatible personalities, and they will sort themselves out. The ignoring stuff is a bit, well, anticlimactic…BUT so much better than fighting!

I assumed Coco would be dom Bun..but Jackson was much more assertive in the bonding phase. Once bonded, Coco is Certainly Top Bun, an she has mounted him a few times to remind him…especially when he was giving the half hearted grooming. He’s a MUCH better groomer now, and even offers to her without her asking, but it took some time.

Once Peter gets with the Adoration of Little Bit program, she will relax.

And I hear you about the vague injuries. I had to go to the Chiropracter for a Month to sort out something I did to my neck one night while sleeping – we think I tried to pivot on my head while I was asleep and yanked out half my neck muscles!

[Binkles]

Well if bonding session #4 had a title it would be: ‘Peter discovers how to mount; Little-Bit wears Peter out’ . Viva la vida loca indeed!

I did a few things differently tonight: I removed myself from the pen (and was perched at the door ready for a fight to break out of course) because they both were trying to use me as a distraction from each other in previous sessions, I did not give them hay this time because it served as a major distraction for Little-Bit, and I made their enclosure slightly smaller so they were forced to be in close proximity.

But really, tonight was pretty good on the whole. It seems like we’re making a rather straightforward and linear progress with every session. Still lots of ignoring, still lots of staring, still hypersensativity on Little-Bit’s part. This time Peter was grooming Little-Bit here and there after the first five or ten minutes. (And after some chasing.) Actually he groomed her a LOT tonight. He was really into it too, got all up onto her ears and stuff. (Little-Bit visibly enjoyed it.) Peter seemed to enjoy it too. He did several head binkies and one half binky after he was done one time. But once again she was adamant about letting him get past her shoulderblades…

..lo’ and behold the first time she DID let him groom past her shoulderblades, it was backwards mount-fest timefor Peter!! I almost couldn’t believe what I was seeing when it happened! This big, big boy enveloping my tiny Bitty bunny. It was definitely the hilight of the night! I know I’m not supposed to let him mount her on the wrong end like that, but it’s very, VERY apparent that he won’t be able to get a mount in on the right end with her. At least not for a very long time. (She bolts or about-faces every time he hops up in back of her.) Peter has been such a sweetheart and so patient with Little-Bit that I think he deserves to have his….in some awkward fashion. Bitty is not a nipper, and honestly when he was on top of her like that all she wanted to do was scramble out from underneath. I don’t think she would have the presence of mind under that circumstance to…well…you know..

At any rate, needless to say his mounting her has NOT helped in the way of easing her hypersensativity with him. Two steps forward and one step back though, right? Thankfully she doesn’t seem to be entirely put-off by his stunt. She still asks to be groomed…and gets what she wants. She just freaks out if he tries to go any further. (And he does…with alterior motives apparently)

The terribly funny thing though is….(REALLY it’s terrible, quit lauging! xDDD)….Peter was TOTALLY EXHAUSTED after trying to give her a go two or three times only to have her run off. (And with grooming breaks in between!) He flopped out and was totally wiped out, eyes drooping and everything. Poor Peter baby! I think that if he stood any chance of having the upper hand in this relationship at all, his stamina (or lack thereof) would ruin it.

My bunnies are so funny. God, they’re like polar opposites. xD Little-Bit, can you share some hyperness with Peter? Please..?

[Balefulregards]

You know – this DID make me laugh. I can just see it in my minds eye.

Poor Peter. Ladies need a bit more Warm up before you can go jumping on their heads with “expectations”.

[Binkles]

Bah, negative session tonight, but I suppose it’s part of the process. MAJOR excessive mounting from Peter. He didn’t tire this time. Again, he’d start by grooming her head and move in for the good stuff. Of course she hated it and made these desperate little squeaks every time it happened. It takes everything for me not to just give in and ‘rescue’ her with those little cries of hers. (>< His weight being on top of her worries me a bit too..) I do separate them after two mounts in a row, but it got to the point where it was almost like every time I'd let go of him he'd shoot off like a rocket to mount her again.

Uggh. TELL me this is temporary. TELL me this is something normal that they’ll work through one way or another. Am I doing right by separating after every second mount in a row? Should I separate more? Less? I think Peter gets his point across amply clear when he just does even one, but I don’t want to insult him or make him feel like asserting his dominance is not okay when I separate them.

We ended the session in an ignore, but Little-Bit was clearly clearly freaked out beyond relief. It took me forever just to catch her in a 3’x3′ area. (And she was making those heartbreaking little squeaks UGH!) How should I proceed from here? Should I take a break and let Little-Bit calm down a few days or no?

Then would I be correct in assuming we should try some stress bonding, ie car ride or laundry?

Also should I shorten their sessions? I’ve been doing them at about one and a half to two hours.

[Balefulregards]

I have only bonded Coco and Jackson. I recall once forcing Coco into the cage with Jackson, who chased her from one side to the other until she finally ( and if I hadn’t seen it, I wouldn’t have believed it) leapt Straight UP into the air and out of the cage. I mean like a good 2.5 feet up in the air. Making those pitiful squeaks of “get me the heck out of here”

One of the hardest things for me was letting it all happen. I was very vigilant with them, staying close by and separating – since Jackson insisted on attempting head mounting nearly exclusively as Coco was too Fast for him to get behind her. Finally – after I was sure they weren’t going to fight, I had to just let him chase her. Yes, she looked annoyed. He looked desperate and hopeful. But I think it was maybe Sarita who advised I just needed to let them work it out. Before she would get TOO annoyed, I would give her space – blocking him off in a NIC cage so she could just get a break. She would almost always stay somewhat nearby – she wanted to be near him, but without the chasing.

I only did two stress bonding sessions – One in the car, and the other on top of the washer. I am not sure if they made a difference or not – Jackson mounted the bejesus out of her in both of those sessions, which she never accepted. She was always trying to get out from under him.

At some juncture ( as the poo wars decreased) he toned it down.

I don’t have super advice, except to say that watching BinkyBunny’s bonding videos of Jack and Viv were helpful – I used her technique of giving Coco an “escape hatch” to get away from the crazy boy.

I think it is normal. It Sounds Normal. I know someone more knowledgeable will give you a better answer. It is Very early in the process and the fact that they aren’t hostile towards one another is really positive.

[Binkles]

Really? I thought that I’d always heard to separate them if the humping is incessant?

I’m just afraid that he might hurt her with his….weightiness. Where’s MonkeyBun? :p I’m sure MB might have some input on big humpy bunnies.

AGGGHHH those squeaks are just so heart-wrenching! It’s all I can do not to just sweep her up and carry her to safety. They even get higher-pitched as her desperacy increases. She gets to the point where she sounds like she’s going to cry like a sad little girl. It’s teerrrrriible. xD

[Monkeybun]

I wouldnt know about big humpy bunnies.. Monkey did all the humping, and shes 1.5 pounds versus Moose’s 4. Her humping was hilarious, she’d use anything nearly to give her a boost, the baseboards, the edge of the pen… was funny.

[Binkles]

xD Oh, lucky! See I think the problem is that Little-Bit doesn’t know how to mount. Doesn’t know how to be a bunny in general. >< Otherwise I'm almost certain she'd mount him, because she's really insistent about grooming.

So I’m taking a break tonight only because I don’t have time. End of term cram time. But at least this gives me some time to get more input from everyone. I really, REALLY need input. So many questions..

Should I stop excessive mounting?

Should I let him mount as he wants?

Should I be worried about Peter’s weight bearing down on Little-Bit?

Should I encourage Little-Bit to groom Peter? (Banana on the head)

Should I encourage Little-Bit to MOUNT Peter?

Should I try a stress bond?

Should I make their enclosure larger than 3’x3′ now that his main objective is mounting her?

Should I be in there with them?

Should I step in when Little-Bit squeaks versus when she grunts? (Because yes there is a difference – squeaking means she’s VERY fed up and desperate.)

Is it normal for him to be so gung-ho about mounting her?

And most importantly…how long will this incessant mounting last?

I apologize for the bombardment…but. xD

[Binkles]

x/ Anyone?

[jerseygirl]

My thoughts are: Don’t make the enclosure larger at this stage.
Provide Little Bit a escape place as Baleful mentioned. So something like a small box she can run into that Peter can’t really fit into.  Maybe put 2 exits so she doesn’t feel cornered if he decides to poke his head in. 
I think then just see it she can handle things herself. You could try giving Peter a verbal or audio prompt to leave her. Or a squirt of water if he just won’t stop. She sort of needs to learn to handle him and let him know in bunny language what is and isn’t ok. He needs those cues from her. So if she leaves and hides from him, he might learn of better ways to interact with her – hopefully. I wouldn’t worry about encouraging mutal grooming. I tend to think the bunny doing the grooming enjoys this as well as the one receiving the grooms.
Do some more sessions as you have been. If things are just a repeat of problems, then try some stress method then put them into the current bonding space directly after for a session.
Hope this helps.

[Binkles]

That’s a great idea you guys. I’ll try the escape hutch tonight. I’ll also do my very best not to intervene. The hardest thing is my not knowing for sure whether or not he’s hurting Little-Bit when he’s on top of her. If she’s just uncomfortable…well then that’s fine. But if he’s hurting her or she’s fearing for her life that’s another thing. I suppose I’ll let her new hide-away figure that out tonight.

[Binkles]

Good session tonight. It was only 30 minutes long as opposed to our usual two hours but I think a good short session is better than a long bad one where they both get antsy and cranky.

The two-opening hutch hide-away was a wonderful addition! It leveled the playing field a LOT. Little-Bit felt much more at-ease knowing it was there and she actually spent a lot of time outside of it. The best thing about it is that Peter can still stick his head in while she’s in there and groom her but he can’t really mount her effectively. (He tried once and only managed to get on her about half way, which oddly she didn’t respond negatively to.) He also likes to lie down next to it with his head sticking slightly in while she’s in there. He managed to mount her once outside of the hutch but she flew out from underneath him like a little football (when it happened my mom said, “Set, set, set, HIKE!” Lol.). Not a whole lot of grunting or thumping from either party today either. I think Little-Bit grunted and thumped once but that was it.

They both seemed pretty intent on digging at the hutch and trying to get it out of the way. :p Lol.

[Binkles]

Last night was a good session. Uneventful but good. The presence of the hutch definitely improves things 100%. It puts Little-Bit at ease. So thank you guys for suggesting it! Lots of ignoring. Peter mounted Little-Bit twice but she didn’t seem like she was frightened anymore. She still didn’t allow it to happen, but she wasn’t scared. xD Peter still grooms her. He also started digging inside the hutch trying to move it and Little-Bit was very VERY interested in what he was doing. Lol. Little-Bit actually laid out twice in close proximity to him about maybe four or five inches away, once facing him and one parallel to him.

I keep feeling bad because Little-Bit never engages Peter in anything and I don’t want him to feel rejected, but he got excited and did a few binkies in the pen last night so I guess it’s not too bad.

Oh! And also I have a question for you guys. What does it mean when a bunny shoves its nose underneath another bunny’s stomach? Because Peter keeps doing this.

[jerseygirl]

I think he’s requesting to be groomed. Others buns did this too and would nip the tummy if they didn’t get their way. All rabbitspeak I guess. It sounds as if it’s going along well. Don’t feel too badly for Peter. This could be the way it is for them OR it may develop into more mutal interaction yet. I’ve mentioned this before but with my pair during bonding – Jersey was first to groom Rumball. He continually requested it and would thump if I tried to encourage his grooming of her. Now that they are bonded, he is the cheif groomer. Always seeks Jersey out and grooms her. He does ask back and she sometimes acquiesces but it seems token compared to his grooms. I do notice she grooms him later at night when no one is apparently looking. ;o)

[Binkles]

Lol, bunnies and their secret not-so-secret language.

Another uneventful session tonight. Pretty much the same goings-on. Lots of staring, some grooming from Peter, some mounting from Peter (and running from Bitty). Little-Bit is still very interested in Peter and just stares at him constantly from close-up. She just is still a little spazz when it comes to letting him touch her on the rear or sides. Peter gets fed up with it too and just lays down after a while. He almost falls asleep sometimes.

[MimzMum]

Sorry I haven’t been in here to comment, Sarah. On the whole though, I think things are coming along well for your little lovebirds. Hope the arm is better! (Have you been able to draw?)
I can remember trying to bond Mimzy and Pip and how much the mounting distressed me. Usually because Mimzy was getting humped in the face by Pip and she easily outweighs him. I mostly worried about biting. Knowing the damage they can do with those fangs of theirs, I didn’t want to see it happen to either of them. But honestly, it never did and they reversed positions so many times I think they were doing it to drive me up the wall more than anything else!
They’ve been separated over a year now due to Mimzy’s sniffles, but I wonder how they’ll do if I were to put them back together? If I would have to deal with replaying their dominance struggles, I am not sure I could live through it again. 0_o;;
The squeaking would have completely thwarted me for some time. I can’t stand to hear my bunnies cry–luckily with Mimzy it’s only been a few times when he didn’t want to go in his carrier and I can’t blame him for that. Fiver actually whines when I try to pick him up or groom him, and it’s so petulant you can’t help but laugh…but at the same time, not funny in the least.

Anyway, what I wanted to say was (and I probably made things worse this way) I really didn’t allow more than a few seconds of mounting from either of them. Not just because it was backwards, but because I just didn’t like it. I was gentle about it and fortunately never dealt with biting or nipping from the two of them, but still, it was disturbing to watch, so I put a stop to it. They still managed to bond and I don’t think they’ve forgotten each other all this time. Although perhaps I’ll try putting the two boys together next, then add Pip to the mix.

I hope the bonding adventure continues to go well. It sounds like you have it all in hand.

[Binkles]

Gosh Mimz, that’s tough! I didn’t even know that you had to have Pip and Mimzy separated because of his sniffles. Poor babies, hopefully he’ll be able to get back in the game soon.

Yeah I’ve been better about letting the mounting go on without my intervention. For the past…three or four sessions(?) I haven’t interfered at all. Like no, really, I’ve sat outside the pen and refrained from even talking to them while they’re bonding, trying to make myself as scarce as possible. (The buns try to use me as a distraction from each other, lol.)

On the bright side Little-Bit has NOT been squeaking.  Or at least not to the degree she was. Mostly disapproval grunts now. I credit this mainly to the presence of the hutch and the fact that because of it Peter can’t really get in more than one hump at a time. It’s not continually mount-run-mount-run-mount-run. THAT’S what was getting Little-Bit so worked up. Haha, Peter has to mount her backwards too. It’s literally impossible for him to get in a forwards mount because every time he even touches her with his nose on the butt or flanks she bolts and about-faces. :p Poor Peter. But luckily I don’t think nipping is in Bitty’s bunny vocabulary. She’s never intentionally nipped me before and I haven’t seen her nip him at all so far. (Perhaps once or twice when she FIRST met him, but it was the first time.)

Regardless of his mounting her I think we’re on the downards slope of the initial aggression period. Little-Bit is still a little defensive around him but I think she’s beginning to mellow out. The little spazz just needs to spend some quality time with him. I’m just happy that neither of them are fighters.

[Binkles]

So we had a bit of a setback –or rather I had a bit of a setback– and had to postpone for almost a week and a half. @_@ I had end of term cram time + AA graduation + a booth at an arts festival all in the same week. Phyew. THEN I RE-injured my right arm beyond use again my carrying all of those heavy frames for the arts festival back and fourth. (Yes, the same darn arm injury. I aggravated it badly.) So all that put everything a good week and a half behind schedule. Oh well, we’re back on track now.

We had a 40 minute session tonight. Since they hadn’t seen each other in a while things started off kind of rocky. Not badly but they were just a little more edgy around each other. Then they mellowed out a bit and got back to their usual selves. No new developments really. Pretty much the exact same as last post, and still no nipping or fighting thank God. :p One thing I did find funny –both buns got their cecals while in the pen together (I’ve seen this happen numerous times now. Anomaly?) and when Peter got his Little-Bit was very interested in trying to sample it from his mouth, lol.

[Binkles]

Tonight’s session was about the same as the last few with a few new developments. It was about 1hr 20min. Peter didn’t mount Little-Bit nearly as much as he has been. Actually I don’t think he got a full mount in at all. One time he even went to mount her, got his arm over her, and pulled back to groom her some more. Peter also got SUPER excited during the first 20 or so minutes. He binkied a LOT –probably more than I’ve ever seen him binky in a single bout. (Needless to say Peter’s size and the size of the x-pen are not compatible for binkies, and he wound up scaring the crap out of Little-Bit a few times, Lol.) Also, I’m not sure –I may be wrong but I THINK Little-Bit may have groomed his tail some. I couldn’t really tell if she was just sniffing or if she was grooming because her nose was buried in it. But I the way her head was moving looked like she was grooming.

The biggest development by far is that Peter laid down flush next to Little-Bit THREE times! First time he’s ever done that. He would groom her and then reach her flank area and lay down. Little-Bit I don’t think quite understood the concept and hopped off after she realized he was done grooming, but it’s a step in the right direction, right? Also one time Peter was grooming her head and he laid down there with his chin resting on her head. GAH it was too cute! It only lasted for about 5 seconds before Little-Bit pulled away, but it was adorable!

[MimzMum]

lolz…Hey, to my way of thinking, any time they aren’t trying to rip each other’s throats out, that’s a good day! Glad to hear they’re still doing well despite the setbacks.
Hope your arm is feeling better! ((((healing vibes)))) Bet it’s nice to be done with school, hm?

[Karla]

Have you tried the banana trick? I for one cannot live without this trick. It has worked magic every time for me, and my bonding sessions have not been longer than 3 days. Of course, every bonding is different and I have been lucky, but I really believe that making them groom each other regularly in the beginning makes a huge difference. It is like it releases all the tensions and apprehensions between them.

[Binkles]

Thanks MimzMum!  And yes, it feels WONDERFUL to be done with my AA! Now I’m off to UCF in Orlando this fall to finish up my –ready for it– BFA in Animation! I know, surprise right? Lol. I must be foolhardy but hey, I’m chasing my dream.

Karla -really? Wow those are great results! I’ve really been wanting to do the banana trick since Little-Bit is so stubborn and hasn’t groomed him once, but I keep hearing that it’s best not to interfere as much as possible(?) and that some pairs just never mutually groom. Although admittedly I would LOVE for Little-Bit to groom poor Peter as well! So what are everyone’s thoughts on this should I aid along the process any or let them be as they are? I don’t want to confuse them or hinder them but I would also like to see some mutual grooming if it’s reasonable.

[jerseygirl]

It’s reasonable. I think those little tricks are handy when things are not moving along. Same with some of the stress bonding techniques too. It wouldn’t hurt to try. At best they’ll be grooming and bonding. At worst, no grooming which isn’t a big deal. Congrats on finishing up with school!

[Karla]

Yes, worst thing is that you have a bunny with banana dried into the fur…it requires a lot of water and a comb to get the banana out, if one of them decides that licking banana off is not their thing.

You are not confusing them by doing it. Both bunnies will enjoy it; the one that gets the banana, and the one thinking it is being groomed. It is a trick even House Rabbit Society recommends. Only thing is that the one with the banana on its head should get some banana as well – it is no fun smelling delicious banana all the time and not being able to find it

[Binkles]

Alright! Then it’s decided, tonight Peter gets some banana on his nose!

Oh!! I also forgot to mention something WEIRD I’ve noticed happening! It occurs continually –when Peter and Little-Bit are together they almost always wind up getting their cecals within minutes of each other. And I bond them at different times every day. I kid you not, yesterday I witnessed two bunnies sitting next to each other sit up, lean over, and get their cecals SIMULTANEOUSLY. At the exact same time!! Am I the only one witnessing this?? xD It’s like some kind of bunny bio-synchronization! Certainly this is a documented anomaly.

[Karla]

That is funny! I guess, yours are fed at the same time, and that the fecals take the exact time for both bunnies to produce…which would make sense as they get the same to eat. Mine don’t necessarily eat at the same time, so I have actually never noticed this. But maybe I haven’t paid attention.

Good luck with the banana! I hope it works out for you.

[Elrohwen]

Mine do that too! I think it’s because they eat at the same time, but it’s weird how they do it like clockwork.

[jerseygirl]

I saw (and still see) that too. When bonding, I called it watching the cecal sequel. I be sitting in the bathroom, cold, tired and hungry, watching them do this and thinking what my life had come to…lol!

 

Yes, worst thing is that you have a bunny with banana dried into the fur.

Oh yes! I forgot about that. heehee

[Binkles]

Well I tried the banana twice tonight. It did make Little-Bit “groom” him but…I mean you know, she didn’t really groom him. xD I administered banana twice in a two hour time frame. I don’t think it really did a whole lot for their comfort level with each other but of course I may be wrong. She still won’t groom him minus the banana.

I also took the hutch out tonight since Peter’s humping seems to have calmed down. He was more humpy than he was with the hutch in there but he was definitely a lot less humpy than before we used the hutch at all. Little-Bit isn’t scared of his humps any more either. She usually doesn’t tolerate them at all, but she’s no longer scared.

Tell me if this is normal you guys: Peter does groom Little-Bit a lot and she loves it, but it seems to be that grooming her is usually all part of his humping game. He’ll be groom groom grooming her and then slyly work his way up into a mount. Gah. It seems to me like he’s giving her mixed messages. Every time she begins to feel more comfortable around him he works that sneak-attack hump in the middle of a groom. Or is this a normal thing?

I think an hour and a half is where I should cap my sessions for now, because they seemed to get annoyed and anxious after that (and Peter got really humpy). Where should I take it from here? Keep doing what I’m doing or try something new?

[jerseygirl]

I forgot to mention, things like their cecatrophy and general self grooming are good signs as they both going about normal rabbity habits in close proximity.
Just reading about Peter grooming then sneaking in to mount reminded me of Jack in Jack and Vivians bonding! It’s hard to know if it’s because he wants to hump or if it’s a dominance move. Is Lil Bit requestiong grooms or does Peter just approach and start grooming?

As to what next? Not sure…maybe try longer sessions and put in some things to occupy them when they start getting annoyed. Have you fed them together? You could try them in different spaces too.

[Binkles]

Well Peter is neutered, albeit only recently. Late January. Sometimes Little-Bit requests and sometimes he just suddenly decides to hop over and groom her. He doesn’t mount her ALL the time though. Sometimes he’ll look like he wants to mount but instead he’ll lie down next to her. (x/ And I don’t think Bitty gets the idea of snuggling yet.) He’s been doing these weird half-mounts lately too, like he’ll just put an arm over her back like a hug and stay like that without doing anything until she moves.

IS moving them into a bigger space a good idea? They do try to ignore each other as much as possible, and my line of thinking was that the smaller the space the more forced they’d be to interact. Right now they are in a space of about 2 feet by 3ft and no distractions. Should I start putting a litterbox in there maybe?

Edit:

Also.

What exactly is everyone’s definition of a good time to move things along with the goal of merging territory? I’m just curious. To me, I feel like it’s when they can lay down beside one another. I wouldn’t DREAM of moving them in together yet, but right now even though they don’t nescesarilly like each other I wouldn’t feel like I was risking anything if I were somehow caught in a situation where they had to share the same space. I know for a fact that they wouldn’t hurt each other –it’s just not in Peter and I don’t think Little-Bit even understands the concept of fighting. What’s everyone’s definition of ‘time to move it along’?

[jerseygirl]

I think at this stage work on longer sessions. They might not be ready for bigger space yet. You could try help Lil Bit with the snuggling. So when Peter lies down next to her, start petting them both and swapping hands to mix the scent up. Create a positive experience for them (especially Little Bit as she’s still skittish.) She is obviously more trusting of Peter now so keep fostering positive interactions.

I just skim read some of the House Rabbit Network article again. Have you got a copy of that one? It talks a bit on guaging where you are at and how to proceed.

[Binkles]

I’m sure someone has probably linked me to it in the past, but I have no idea where. xD

[jerseygirl]

Sorry, I didn’t see your edit before. I think the article will address some of that better than me anyway.

http://www.rabbitnetwork.org/articles/bond.shtml

[Binkles]

That was a great read Jersey, thanks! I have it bookmarked now.

Unfortunately it’s a little hard for me to tell exactly where we’re at because of Peter’s sometimes double-edged grooming and Little-Bit’s inability to mount. (I’m convinced she truly does only know how to express dominance in requesting to be groomed.) I sort of feel like they are confusing each other –they’re certainly confusing me! :p

Tonight I think I will try moving their enclosure to a different location –the living room instead of the hallway, which is an entirely different rug. I think I will put some socks or washcloths in there for them to throw around too. I can tell that they get fed up sometimes because they’ll take little anxiety digs in the rug and pull it up. I’ll try petting her to snuggle down when he grooms her too. And of course we’ll try more banana.

 

[jerseygirl]

The more time they spend together the better they’ll become in understanding one another. It all sounds like it’s going well.
I’ve seen those little anxiety digs before. With Jersey it’s a determination to get past a barrier. Same with Rumball sometimes but he also does it when he wants to use the litterbox sometimes. I also read that males (in a wild colony) will use digging to demonstrate their prowess which I think is hilarious!! I got impression they do this amoungst themselves, not so much as a show for the ladies.  I must say, seeing rabbits dig in dirt is one of my favourite things. I love how they hike their tush and throw the dirt thru the gap.

[Binkles]

Last night went pretty well I think. Their session was almost 3 hours long. I moved their enclosure into the livingroom and gave them a bunch of rags and a newspaper ball (they loved the newspaper ball) to play with if they got fed up. I sat in there with them so I could try to perpetuate any snuggling that would happen. This also meant that I had to widen the pen a little so I could fit, but only by a panel. I don’t think I’ll be sitting with them again because instead of paying attention to each other all they wanted to do was climb on mommy and groom her and I only got to get them to snuggle once! Ugh. My bunnies are so sweet to me but they need to bond. xD After about two hours I left the pen and they paid more attention to each other.

For the first hour or so Peter was pretty humpy (and he mistook my arm a few times, to which I quickly let him know was not okay), but after that he calmed down. Little-Bit also seemed to be calmer this time, she laid down several times (which is a feat for the neurotic little girl) and most of them were in the general vicinity of Peter. I thought that was cool because the pen was bigger too. A few times he even came up behind her or passed alongside her and she didn’t flinch. I tried the banana trick again and I actually caught Little-Bit taking a couple of really quick stray grooms at him later on, once on his ears and once on his flank. She only nibbled at him once or twice but I think it’s a step in the right direction.

Overall I think the move to the living room and slightly bigger space was less stressful for them and the rags/ rugs were a really good implement.

I also wanted to ask, if I’m doing these 3-hour long or longer sessions is it okay to put a litterbox in there for them? Peter goes to the bathroom IMMEDIATELY when I put him back in his own enclosure and I’ve caught poor Little-Bit not being able to hold herself a few times. I think they may get more aggitated the more they have to pee…

[Elrohwen]

It sounds like they’re doing pretty well!

As for a litter box, that’s up to you. Have you fed them or given them hay together? If so, does Peter’s humping seem to increase when Little-Bit approaches the food? I’m just trying to gauge if he uses his humping to claim things, in which case a litter box might make him more humpy as he tries to tell her it’s his box. Did that make sense? I would try it, especially since you’re doing such long sessions, and see how it goes. You can always take it back out or put in two.

For your earlier question about when to move them in together, I would recommend doing it when you don’t see any more progress during sessions. With my two, I was spending sessions totally bored watching them sleep. I figured any issues they had (they still weren’t really grooming) weren’t going to get resolved during sessions so I might as well just move them in. I’ve also found mine have far more issues very early in the morning – clearly I wasn’t doing bonding sessions at 4am, so these issues weren’t coming up. I think I had done as much as I could during “normal” bonding hours and the next step was to move them in together and let them work out a 24hr relationship. I think you’ll know when you’re there. Snuggling might be a good metric for you – if they consistently snuggle with one another they might be ready.

[jerseygirl]

Adding a litterbox would be a good tool to guage where things are with them. So if it causes issues just remove it. You could pop it in at the beginning and this mimght prompt them to use it straight away. If you can’t leave it in there, you could then pop it in later on also for a toilet break.

[Binkles]

Sounds good, guys!

[Binkles]

Last night we tried the litterbox. It didn’t really make a difference in Peter’s mounting but it did seem to make Little-Bit feel a bit more comfortable and less jumpy -it was her litterbox. Peter pooped and peed outside of the litterbox, although I’m not sure that it was a territorial statement so much as it was just him being confused. In hindsight I should have put some of Peter’s litter in there too because Peter wouldn’t go in Little-Bit’s litterbox. >< I think it may have confused him.

We’ll see. Tonight I’ll put both of their litterboxes in there.

Oh, also they snuggled once and Little-Bit stayed there so long as Peter was grooming her.

[Binkles]

EEEE!! They snuggled last night for the first time!! Like truly snuggled along side each other without any grooming!! And within the first ten minutes of putting them together. Little-Bit never stays snuggled for more than five seconds unless she’s being groomed. Last night they snuggled for at least a minute! I teared up a bit. :p The only thing that broke their snuggle was that Peter had to get up and scratch an itch.

So obviously last night went well! Peter only tried to mount Little-Bit twice and I had them together 4-5 hours. I also had both litterboxes in there which did a world of good. They both hopped in and out of each other’s boxes and dug in them. Neither of them seemed like they were territorial over their litter box, but Little-Bit just stared confusedly at Peter when he hopped in her’s and started digging. Lol, it was as if the concept of personal property violation was so far from her normal scope of comprehending that she didn’t quite know what to do with it.

[jerseygirl]

This is very much sounding like a lovely success story. Despite your apprehensions about Bitty being with another bun and being able to find one suitable to adopt. So glad you took the plunge!

[Elrohwen]

That sounds so great! They’re really doing well together.

Peter’s peeing and pooping reminds me of Hannah. I gave them a brand new litter box with brand new litter, but she peed all over the floor for a couple days. I’m pretty sure she was marking – she never did it in the tub, but I guess the carpet was too good to resist! She also marked for days after I moved them in together, but now she’s fine and never has accidents.

[Binkles]

The last few sessions have been pretty blah. Lots of ignoring, lots of casual observing/ staring. Lots of grooming from Peter, some humping, not much.

But tonight I think was a turning point. Little-Bit seems to really be becoming more comfortable around Peter. None of his movements surprise or scare her anymore and she’s beginning to actively seek him out/ follow him around instead of trying to ignore him. And she actually groomed him tonight!! For a good solid minute. And she took other little small grooms at him here and there throughout the night too. Peter was SO happy about this display of affection. He binkied around and flopped and binkied some more. He binkied so enthusiastically once that it’s the highest I think I’ve ever seen him binky. He flailed out and his feet hit the side of the x-pen too which startled Little-Bit. Lol.

Lately I have admittedly been paying less attention to them because….well our sessions are 5+ hours long now and frankly I’m not concerned about them hurting each other at all. So I’ve been leaving them in the living room to do my own thing every so often –cleaning or checking my email, drawing, etc. Tonight I came out of my bedroom and looked over the banister to see them snuggling!! So heart warming.

I think I’m going to go ahead and move them to semi-neutral territory next session. They don’t really have any dominance issues anymore. Peter almost mounted Little-Bit once tonight but stopped half way through, and Little-Bit isn’t distressed when he does it.

[Binkles]

Okay….I know it’s natural for bunnies to lay on top of each other….but….he envelops her entire head. xD

Yeah, he laid down on top of her head for a snuggle tonight after grooming her. And he um…completely covered her. I thought it was intensely sweet but couldn’t help being worried at the same time because I wasn’t sure if he was smothering her. But she’d struggle and try to get away if she didn’t want him there….right? Or is there some dominance rule that keeps her frozen there if he’s on top of her head? =s

After about 10 or 15 seconds of neither of them moving I got up out of my chair and went over to check on them. Peter got up quickly when I approached and Little-Bit shot out from underneath him, though she didn’t seem alarmed. So. Gah, I don’t know. Are my fears unfounded?

Anyway, obviously it’s going well. I have them in the semi-neutral territory now which is also a little bigger than their neutral territory. It’s the hallway between my room and the room we’re keeping Peter in so I figure that both of their scents are close enough to it that it’s semi-neutral. They’re very relaxed around each other now and spend most of their time in the same foot or so vicinity of each other. I’ve seen a little bit of snuggling tonight, not a whole lot but then again I interrupted Peter’s big gesture of “I LUV YOO~”.

They’ve been in there about five hours now I guess, and Peter hasn’t mounted her. He just laid on her, that’s all. xD

I’ve also seen Little-Bit do a few subtle binkies tonight, and Peter did a small binky immediately when I brought Little-Bit out. Ah, good times!

[jerseygirl]

I know I’ve posted a lot but I have to say, I’m really enjoying reading of their journey.
Even if it is somewhat lacking in pictures……*whistles*

[Binkles]

Hahahah okayokay, I get the message. ;p I’ll get some uploaded.

[Binkles]

Okay I’ve been really bad about keeping this journal updated! But hey look, PICTURES IN MY NEXT POST!

We’ve had um, about two or three sessions since my last post? Including tonight. Anyway, they’re still doing amazing. I won’t lie, I’m becoming really tempted just to go ahead and move them in together. They love being around each other. They’ve been snuggling more and more, and some snuggles are now initiated by Little-Bit. She’s also been grooming Peter more. Actually, today I haven’t seen too much grooming from him but she’s groomed him a LOT! (Caught some on video too.)

Yesterday I decided to lay down on my tummy in their enclosure and Peter laid down against me, then Bitty came and laid down next to him. T_T At that moment I felt like my life was complete.

There’s still some civil competitiion between them, mostly in the form of “Groom me.” “No, you groom ME.” And then one or both will get flustered and hop off a few feet to dig annoyedly at the carpet. Lol. Peter never mounts her more than once a session if he even mounts her at all….and it’s usually…dare I say….anxiety mounting? Does this sound familiar to anyone? It seems like he only mounts her when he’s anxious about something, ie. I’m cleaning up their enclosure and they know I’m about to pick them up to put them back in their homes. It’s really odd. xD

[Binkles]

OKAY PICTURE TIME!! These are in order from oldest to newest, so they go through three scenery changes.

I think he looks regal in this one.

“Why yes, as a matter of fact I can fit in Little-Bit’s hutch.”

OUCH! Level 5 disapproval!!

This one amused me because of the picture I’d taken of her when she was younger about two feet away:

Oh look, how sweet he’s grooming her! Oh look now he’s-…wait he’s-…oh…

Teeheehee..

Tongue!

Om-nom-nom-nom.

Why what do we have over here?

Peter and his leeps!

Little-Bit caught in the act of grooming Peter!! But at a distance from my computer chair. xD

And Little-Bit is now infatuated with him. <<3333

On a side note, Peter spends an easy 98% of his time lounging –should I be worried about that? x)

[jerseygirl]

 These are just gorgeous pics!  Thanks for posting them. I’m just……-ing~!

[Binkles]

Oh my God you guys, they’re really falling in love more and more every day. It’s amazing to watch. Little-Bit grooms Peter a lot now and Peter still grooms Little-Bit too. They lay next to each other and cuddle and follow each other around. I just watched them sit down with their noses pressed together for about five minutes. They spend almost all of their wakeful time together now -from about 5-6pm until 3-4am when I go to bed.

Little-Bit gets so excited sometimes. She’s infatuated. Today she found out that she can use Peter as an obstacle course and hop over him repetitively while he’s lying down. xD I think that Peter’s becoming the more dominant one, but that’s not saying much because he’s very gentle and doesn’t demand anything. Every once in a while he’ll look like he’s going to mount her but instead he’ll just put an arm around her for a few seconds and then back off again.

Aggh!! You guys!! I’m so excited!! When can I move my bunnies in together?! :p

[Binkles]

Alright. I went out of town for five days and had to separate them during that time, but before I went out of town they had their first overnight and it went well. They wound up snuggling.

After I got back they experienced a slight bit of a step back as expected. They both groomed each other but Little-Bit was a little nervous and just wanted to get back into her room and Peter really wanted to make sure Little-Bit (and I) knew that she was ‘his’. But that wore off after the first night and they pretty much became comfortable around each other again. I let them spend the night together in the semi-neutral space again last night and they did well, again wound up snuggling and/ or close to snuggling.

(Lol. What is everyone’s definition of snuggling? Is it when at least one part of the rabbit touches the other or do their bodies need to be flush with one another? :p )

I think I’m going to move them in together pretty soon — what do you guys think? It seems to me like the only problem for both bunnies now is that they want to get back into their own living spaces instead of being trapped in this neutral zone.

Oh yeah! The other thing is that I’m moving in about three weeks. I’ve found my apartment and everything! It’s nice and clean and has plenty of space for one person and two bunnies. And I’ll be by myself too. Thankfully the landlord doesn’t consider bunnies as ‘pets’ and gave me the all-clear for keeping them there without a pet deposit. Hahaha.

[Elrohwen]

It sounds like they’re ready to be full-time roommates to me! What adorable pictures. They’re such little love birds.

I would define snuggling as any touching. Actually, any attempt for one bun to lay near another counts as snuggling to me. My buns don’t always touch each other, but will often head to where the other one is laying and lay down a few inches away. This shows to me that they just want to be near each other. Otto is more likely to do this. Hannah is very much a “I want to be in your business” kind of bunny and will squish up against him any way she can. lol

Yay for a new apartment! That is so exciting. And the new space will just be the extra cementing-icing on the cake.

[Sarita]

Look how cute! Love comes in all sizes.

[Beka27]

I love Peter! He is so cute!

They make a beautiful pair.

I agree, the change with moving will be just enough to really get them together.

[Binkles]

I’m so excited you guys! I currently have them in the bonding pen for I guess what would be the last time! While they’re in tonight I’m going to re-arrange my room — redo the bunny condo to accommodate a Peter-sized bunny, eliminate my bed frame, and set my mattress and box springs on the ground like they will be in my apartment.

After they’re done with their bonding session tonight I’m going to bring Little-Bit in and let her have a night to herself in it since it’s her room and I don’t want to completely shock her. Give her a night to get used to it and then tomorrow evening…I’m just going to bring Peter in!

And that will be that!

[Beka27]

Can you try to bring them both in so it’s a different space to both? That might work the best.

[jerseygirl]

I agree^. I totally get why you want to do that for Little Bit (totally!) but you actually don’t want her to claim the space or become territorial about it. Though I understand she’s not like that generally – I wouldn’t risk it with a Doe. Maybe bring them both in to explore the new space then back to the pen for a bit. If they manage well in the new space, you could then bring them back for overnight. Have some of Bit’s things for her but I think her having larger digs and being able to have her boy-bun there will keep her happy enough.  Also, she will have the familiarity of having you at her side of the condo.

[jerseygirl]

Yooooo Hoooooo…….!!!      

[Binkles]

I’m so sorry for the sudden absence. A lot of things happened all at once and resulted in an un-announced hiatus. Mostly things to do with my school, bonding, being exhausted, and having the largest oil spill in human history about to destroy my hometown. My apologies! xD

So let me catch you up. The long and short of it is….THEY’RE OFFICIALLY BONDED! They’ve been living together in my room for about a week now without any incidents whatsoever, and my God I don’t think I could be happier with the way this has turned out. I really have all of you to thank profusely for coaching me along the way…and convincing me to get big boy Peter in the first place! This has turned out to be the perfect match. They’re not overtly snuggly because Little-Bit likes her personal space for the most part, but they love each other’s company and I believe that both of them have a better quality of life now.

Just as a sidenote I DID in fact bring Little-Bit back into my room a night before I brought Peter because I hadn’t read your replies yet. =x But in all honesty I’m glad that I did because Little-Bit was very, VERY pissed that she suddenly could not get underneath my bed anymore and that her condo had been chopped in half. She was a sulky little ball of pity that night and I think that if Peter had been there…it just wouldn’t be a good first introduction. Little-Bit definitely needed that 24 extra hours to re-adjust some.

But anyway! Now for the PICTURES!!

Peter hops over to say ‘hi’ to Grandbunny when I first set him down in my room.

Little-Bit is very curious about these new developments.

Peter finds the litterbox and takes a dig in Little-Bit’s diggy sheet. (Which she never uses.)

Peter hops into the litterbox with Little-Bit and freaks her out, so she hops out.

Not quite sure how this one works…but…it did somehow. And it’s cute.

Peter discovers the tile.

We stop for a quick groom.

Peter is just exploring. And Little-Bit is following intently. (“Mommy….what is he doing in here? Is that okay?”)

Once Peter establishes his surroundings, he does what Peter does best.

Little-Bit is too hyped-up to sit still and keeps exploring around despite that he’s laying down.

“….Yeah he’s still down there! There he is!”

And that was the first night! A lot of exploring and Little-Bit tried to ignore him, but they were too interested in each other to stay away. There was lots, and lots, and LOTS of running around/ accidentally startling each other those first few nights. They awoke me many times. But I also awoke to be inundated with Peter bunny kisses on my face, so it was all good.

Peter *loves* my bed, more so than Little-Bit or Binkles. I’m guessing because of his weight and build it’s more comfy for him.

o_o I don’t feel I’m entitled to my bed anymore.

 
This is often the kind of scene I turn around to when I look in back of me from my computer chair.

Peter’s favourite thing to do ever is to flop and fall asleep that way. He also occasionally enjoys grooming himself in the flopped position.

 

 

They’re freaking adorable together and their interactions are so dynamic and fun to watch. They do new things every day that make my heart melt and/ or make me laugh. It feels SO good to have them bonded. God I’m glad I did this!

[jerseygirl]

and having the largest oil spill in human history about to destroy my hometown

Ugh! The spill. My mind boggles…..

On to happier things… Congratulations on the bonded bunnies! It was all pretty quick bond wouldn’t you say? Ooodles of time for them to be together before the move.
Will you Mum miss having rabbits around once you move out?
The pics are fabulous. My fave is the one of them top and tail on the bed.

[Beka27]

Congrats! They are quite a pair!

Too funny… I have those same little incremental baseboard nibbles. I wonder why… lol.

[Author]

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