Bonding 2 + 2 = 4

[LucaPhaeton]

Spay/Neuter
Are your bunnies spayed/neutered? Yes, No, No, No

If so, for how long (for each)? The older male is spayed. The older female isn’t, the younger female and male are not.

If not, why not? The younger male is yet 9 weeks old – but it is planned to get the younger male neutered.

Are you aware of reproductive cancer risk in females? If not, please read about it here. The link sadly doesn’t work – so I’d have to say no.

Housing
Please describe your bunnies’ current housing set-up (living together, as neighbors, etc.). The older ones are freeroaming, they have a space for their litter box and water, etc. The smaller ones are currently in a cage beside these set-ups of the older ones.

Bonding background
Did you allow the bunnies to “settle-in”? Yes
How would you describe your bunnies reactions towards each other (answer for each bunny): shy, scared, curious, calm, aggressive, excited, affectionate, etc.? The first hours were I’d say rather aggressive. The older ones were trying to bite the smaller ones. But I build a two-walled cage so no harm waws caused. I will describe the current situation further down.
Have you done any “pre-bonding” (cage or litter box swaps, etc.)? Not really, no.
If so, for how long? –
Have you started sessions yet? yes
How long have you been working on bonding your bunnies? almost 2 weeks 
How frequently do you have bonding sessions, and how long are they? 1 per day – started with 30 minutes now up two 2 hours. planning on making two sessions a day.
Have you tried any stressing techniques? No – But I am planning on doing so. Like going to the vet with them for instance.

Hello! This is my first time writing here. 🙂

I used to have 2 bunnies – I will call them the older ones so it’s better to seperate. One male and one female. I had them since they were 12 weeks old. The male is neutered. They are bonded. They cuddle, clean each other, etc.

Recently I obtained two new smaller bunnies. They are currently 9 weeks old. So I haven’t had them for long.

I am currently trying to bond those 4 together. At the beginning the older ones didn’t like the younger ones. As describes above they were biting through the cage – but this has calmed down within a few days. After they got “used” to seeing each other I finally started putting them together. Their first real encounter was together in the bathtub. And now this is where I am getting confused: In the bathtub they dont fight. Sometimes the older female bites the smaller ones in their bum  – but that’s it. They even groom each other. The smaller ones the older ones and the other way around. Not always and all the time but it has happened several times. Sounds good so far… When I bring them out in the hallway they start to act up a little after a time. The older ones get closer to the younger ones and bow down their ears, like an attacking position. But they usually don’t do anything. After a few seconds they stop and walk their way.

Buuuut… In the living room – where they usually all live it’s not that way. Sometimes the older female chases the younger female around. The younger ones are sometimes a lil scared when the older ones come close to them and they run away, tho the older ones didn’t do anything. they dont lay down their ears or get in these positions I observed an described earlier.

Why is it like that? Am  I doing something wrong? I know, it’s only been a week but it’s weird how they like each other in the bathtub but not outside of it. I recently redid their “cage” and the underlay they have for their cage so they would have a “fresh” smell of each other and maybe don’t get to territorial? Should I be doing things differently? I want to make sure everything goes smoothly cause I love all 4 of them.

[Wick & Fable]

I’m sorry that the link doesn’t work! See here for the mention as well as resources/links to experiences of uterine cancer in un-spayed female rabbits: https://wabbitwiki.com/wiki/Spaying_and_neutering_rabbits#Female_spaying

The bath tub is a neutral territory — meaning a place none of the rabbits have claimed nor have much familiarity with (unless your older rabbits are frequently hopping in the bathtub, haha). The living is clearly claimed ground, thus all rabbits will be more on edge — the territory owners will be territorial, and the newcomers can absolutely sense that they are in another rabbit’s territory as well, and for prey animals, being in another being’s territory is scary. That is why rabbits “chin” everything and mark– to spread their scent and feel safer.

I would recommend doing things differently. It’s nice to hear that your older rabbits seem to get along well, but there is actually a formal bonding process that is suggested with rabbits. The formal bonding process explicitly works with terms like pre-bonding, neutral and semi-neutral territory, and the progression from one to another is systematic to ensure the safety of all buns, in addition to the stability of the bonds you hope to establish. Please see here for the bonding process: https://binkybunny.com/infocategory/bonding/

All this being said, I actually recommend not trying to bond your older rabbits to the younger ones at this time. Not only do they need time to generally settle in their environment, any relationship that could be formed with these very young rabbits is going to be unstable and not safe. Young rabbits form what are called ‘baby bonds’, also known as the false bond. This is a bond which can seem very stable and cute, but is actually a consequence of young rabbits not yet having those territorial/mating urges which causes relationship tension between rabbits. Your new rabbits are not yet hormonal, and when they become so, not only is there a pregnancy risk, but also whatever ‘bond’ you may have tried to establish will likely dissipate. This applies to both the ‘bond’ you might see between the two young rabbits and whatever ‘bond’ you might see with the older rabbits. You can read here for the important difference between the true bond versus the baby-false bond: https://rabbitsindoors.weebly.com/bonding-bunnies.html … note that being from the same litter, growing up together, etc.. does not buffer against the effects hormones will have on young rabbits.

Notably, you will see that there is mention that both rabbits must be spayed/neutered, which is not the case for your older pair. I echo what the article states which is that a ‘bonded pair’ where one rabbit is still intact is not going to be as stable as one where both are fixed, and I want to alert you that since this bond may not be as secure, attempting to bond a quad may actually break the pre-existing bond. Please keep this in mind. It is possible that a quad will not be possible until all rabbits are fixed.

It is advised that all rabbits should be spayed/neutered to ensure lasting, stable bonds. Hormonal rabbits can be unpredictable and change for seemingly ‘no reason’.

 

 

 

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[LucaPhaeton]

Thanks for the fast reply!

Thanks for the new link and the information, I feel more calmer now that I have some explanation for what’s happening.

I will stop the bonding process for now and wait till their are older. I will get them both spayed and then start the process via the link you provided.

So just to make sure: If I really want a quad to work the older female should be neutered as well?

The older ones are one year old by the way! Didn’t mention that in my post.

[Wick & Fable]

If you really want it to work, yes, spaying the older female will give you the best chance so that her hormones do not add another variable into the equation. Even if she is not explicitly acting hormonal, the presence of a hormonal female can bring about hormonal behaviors in other rabbits who are fixed.

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

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