Arduina and Leo.. **BONDED**

[lwayne]

 My Significant Other and I brought Arduina to the bunny sanctuary yesterday!  To my surprise, she wasn’t enthusiastic about any of the single neutered male bunnies we tried.  There was one however who just adored her.  He was very calm and sweet, but shy and was very submissive to Arduina’s top bunny demands.  Even though Arduina wasn’t crazy about him and mostly ignored him, we decided to bring him home (the people there thought they would bond).   We have renamed him Leo (I post pictures in the welcome forum).

First bonding session at home:

Since they were already very tired from the long day and the 2 h car ride home, we put them in the downstairs bathroom together with Arduina’s litter box and some water (they had a couple of hours to settle in at home prior).  Arduina became very teritorial, even though she doesnt go in that part of the house she knows where she is.  She began pooping around him (and on him!)  and biting his ears.  He would just lay still unless she hurt him he would fight her off.  Arduina then began to ignore him and would flop because she was tired, Leo would watch her while he was eating hay or grooming.  Once Leo saw Arduina was flopped, he would slowly approach her, trying to give her a kiss!  Of course Arduina didn’t like this guy kissing her so she would jump over him or box at him.  Leo even used her litterbox.. to Arduina’s dismay.  Since they were both pretty tired, we could get them both flopped side-by-side while petting and giving nose rubs.  Arduina would sniff him a little, but I think she would also nip at his ears.  Leo is really trying to be her friend.   Hopefully Arduina will realize that Leo will let her be the top bunny princess and they’ll become great friends.  

It seems to have gone better than some of the stories I’ve read, but I was really hoping for Arduina to fall in love at first sight.  I guess I didn’t realize how much of a picky little princess she is.  She even gets mad when I pet Leo.  Arduina has never been around bunnies (since she was a baby), so that might have something to do with her major attitude.  

Leo is currently housed in a separate part of the house (temporarily in the basement), since I want Arduina to maintain her excellent litter box habits.  The problem is that she is mostly free-roaming when we are home, so everywhere but the basement is her territory.   Leo also needs time to adjust to his new home and us, and come out of his shell.  

 

**EDIT: page 4 has summary/tips of bonding experience.

[Elrohwen]

That sounds like a great start to me! If you have one very easy going bun, it makes everything so much easier. She’ll learn that he’s only there to give her kisses and wait on her hand and foot 😛

[lwayne]

As of today, there has been no fighting. Yesterday there was one or two in the first 10min of a 2h+ session. Leo keeps trying to mount Arduina, but she hasn’t given in yet. He chases her around singing the love song (honking) until they both get tired and flop on separate sides of the room. She’ll get up from a flop as soon as he touches her, but is such a flirt and will flop/roll a foot away from him. They are both still peeing and pooing everywhere, but are good with their litterbox habits in their own habitats. We are still in the neutral bathroom space. I keep wiping up the pee with vinegar and throwing the poo in the litterboxes.

[lwayne]

 So there is still no fighting between the two buns, however Arduina is still being territorial. While she didn’t pee last night, she is still leaving poo drops everywhere. She usually leaves a drop (or puddle) when Leo tries to mount her. I still have Arduina and Leo in the ‘neutral territory’ downstairs bathroom. The past two nights I have done a drier session, with both buns in a large litter box on the drier. This seems to help get them close together. Strangely enough, it is Arduina who humps Leo in the litterbox, while in the bathroom, Leo chases Arduina around trying to mount. They have been sniffing noses (kissing!), but no snuggling or grooming each other yet. I have been doing 2h session all week. Will Arduina ever stop the territorial marking?? I am nervous about moving them upstairs since she has free run of the upstairs house when we are home (and free run of her ‘bedroom’ 24 h). Here is a picture of them:

 

 

So Leo will lower his head in front of Arduina, my guess as to be subordinate, but Arduina will then bit his ears.  Leo will just take it unless she does it hard.  It worries me she goes for his ears and also around his eyes.  Here is a picture of it:

 

 

 

[RabbitPam]

He sounds lovely!
I think it’s going well so far, and rather quickly.
However, I am concerned about the ear biting. If you can stop her before she actually gets to his ears, it would be much better for him. Bonding experts, I’m thinking a spray water bottle is the thing to use to get her to back off. Bunnies can do some really serious damage to each other’s ears, and he could need a vet if she bites through, or takes out a piece. Better to “nip” that in the bud if you can. Also, you can keep a strainer, the mesh kind for vegetables with a handle, at the ready so you could stick it between them if she starts to go for him with her teeth.

[Monkeybun]

When Leo is lowering his head in front of her, it isn’t to be subordinate. It’s being dominant, he’s demanding grooms from her

[lwayne]

Ooh, thanks Monkeybun. Leo lowers his head to be pet by us too. He will crouch down low when we start petting him.

RabbitPam, I do break up them up when she starts doing that. Sometimes it is hard to tell if she is nipping or licking his ears.

We had to end the session early tonight because Arduina’s feet started to bleed (sore hocks). I keep putting on that cream 2x a day (silver sulfadiazine), but they don’t seem to be getting better. I think she may just need rest, except that she loves to run around and our vet said that she needs lots of exercise to loose some weight. I’ve got a fleece blanky I’ve spread out in the middle of her room and she’s got tons of ‘squishy’ stuff like a kitty bed and other fleece blankies around.

[The Rabbit]

Wow. what a handsome couple! he sounds truly enamored with her. I hope all goes well for you. I’m getting my buns new mate in a couple of weeks.

[MarkBun]

Everything looks good. The first picture shows one bun relaxing while the other non-chalantly grooms. They’re showing each other that they’re not afraid of each other. The nipping could be simply a misunderstanding as how to groom gently. Maryann first started grooming other buns with a LOT of force.

[Elrohwen]

Also, when she’s nibbling on his ears and around his eyes and he’s taking it, she’s actually grooming him. Sometimes they’re a little rough about it when they don’t know what they’re doing 😛 If he’s just laying there and letting her do it, I would leave them. You don’t want to teach her that grooming isn’t ok. I would only break them up if it seems like she’s annoying him too much.

And like MB said, he’s being dominant and demanding grooms.

[lwayne]

Oooh ok. Thanks Markbun and Elrohwen. When Arduina nips Leo’s ear too hard he will jump/shake a little, but doesn’t really get up. She does that to us too (and gets yelled at for it). Maybe Leo can teach her the proper way to groom and then she’ll stop nipping us too!

When will she stop pooing/peeing everywhere? I would really like to move this out of the bathroom… I’m getting tired of spending my evenings sitting on the bathroom floor or on the toilet.

[lwayne]

Ok, well maybe that wasn’t a good idea.  After vacuuming and moping with vinegar, I tried doing a bonding session in the upstairs bathroom.  It did not go well at all.. They fought and we had to break it up. Seems like a step backwards.  We tried getting them to lay down together, it worked while we were petting them, but then the started fighting again.  

Arduina got Leo pretty bad, tore out a huge chunk of fur on the side of his neck, top layer of skin came a long with it.  Leo has a ~1.5 inch bald spot that is quite red but wasn’t bleeding.  I wasn’t sure if neosporin was ok for bunnies, so I put some of Arduina’s sore hocks cream on it (silver sulfadiazine) I figured thats ok for her feet when they were red and bleeding and I know its safe if they lick it.  Should I continue with the silver sulfadiazine or use neosporin (I read on here neosporin is ok? but which is better?)?

Leo seemed all fine and not bothered by it (typical bunny response).  We put him back in his room and he still let us pet him and he ate some treats out of my hand.  I think we are going to take today off and we’ll head back down stairs next time.  Although in a week or so we are having someone move in and rent out the basement, so I’ll have to move him and the bonding sessions upstairs.  It sucks that Arduina thinks the whole house is hers and she’s being so mean to Leo .

[lwayne]

 Here is a picture of Leo and the damage done by Arduina.  

 

I just ordered another xpen.. for Arduina.  I’m going to have to move Leo upstairs and have them share the same room since we are renting out the basement.  I know Arduina isn’t going to like going back to a ‘cage’, she’s had free range for 6 months now.  I’ll probably have to switch her back to a water bottle, because last time she was confined in the pen she would flip everything over and bang around to be let out.  Leo is currently using her xpen and she doesn’t seem to miss it one bit (I had replaced the open door xpen with a coffee table about the same size, so there is still the whole set up just not the ‘walls’.)

I have been switching their litterboxes, and once i have another pen I can switch them as well.  Since they will be in the same room (Arduina’s territory), I’ll make sure to vacuum and mop with vinegar really well and also rearrange the room (my desk and the rest of Arduina’s ‘furniture’).

I’ll continue with the dryer sessions and I can use the downstairs bathroom for another week.. Any other suggestions about having no neutral territory?  

[Karla]

Oh, poor Leo. That’s what you got from falling in love with a feisty lady.

Car? The tub? The garden? Really depends on how you live. Maybe you can go to a friend’s house? I’ve seen in other threads, that quite a few have used a basket that they carry around the house. That might be a good idea.

[Deleted User]

Iwayne, this wound needs to heal first before you continue any bonding.

[lwayne]

I haven’t put them together since the big event two nights ago. I plan on giving Leo a rest and time to heal (they both probably need a rest). I’m just trying to strategize the next steps.. I will continue to switch litterboxes and next week when I get the second pen, move them to the same room. I’ll put Arduina in there for a day or two to get her situated back into a confined space before I move Leo upstairs. I can then also switch them from pen to pen.

Our tub is also part of Arduina’s ‘Queendom’, she likes to go in there and dig and jumps in and out quite well. I haven’t let her out in the rest of the house since we brought Leo home; she’s been confined to her room (soon to be their room). The drier sessions will help and I’ll have to do that until they are solid and then move to a larger area, which will have to be semi-neutral (hopefully forgotten territory?).

Can anyone find the link of the ‘7 months of bonding’? Not that I think it will take 7 months, but I think that bonding story there was also no neutral area.

Even though the bonding is frustratingly slow, I am using this time to bond Leo with us humans. He is becoming friendlier toward us day by day!

[usagi]

They are both really beautiful.

When Lems got neutered and kept tugging at the wound, the vet said neosporin 2x a day, and that it was ok if he licked it off, if that helps at all.

[Deleted User]

Posted By lwayne on 05/05/2010 05:32 PM

Can anyone find the link of the ‘7 months of bonding’? Not that I think it will take 7 months, but I think that bonding story there was also no neutral area.

I think you might be referring to member Battie’s bonding of Quincy and Beulah. Her bonding is broken up in several threads, the first two links cover the bunny-dating experience. I thought I’d add that too, as it talks a little about Quincy and member Battie’s bonding space. 

 

https://www.binkybunny.com/FORUM/tabid/54/a…fault.aspx

https://www.binkybunny.com/FORUM/tabid/54/a…fault.aspx

 

 

https://www.binkybunny.com/FORUM/tabid/54/a…fault.aspx

 

https://www.binkybunny.com/FORUM/tabid/54/a…fault.aspx

 

https://www.binkybunny.com/FORUM/tabid/54/a…fault.aspx

[Battie]

Good morning! Petzy just alerted me to this thread. I’m at work now so can’t give it my full attention, but I will be happy to try to help when I get home.

Good luck!

[Battie]

I think since one of your bunnies is friendly it should not take you as long as it did for me to bond. I had one bunny angry over losing his territory and another who did not necessarily need company. I think things also went so slowly because I was not aggressive enough about working on the bond. I don’t remember the timelines (and maybe not all the events), but this is how it progressed:

1. First, I couldn’t even let Beulah be visible while Quincy had play time. I shielded her cage with cardboard so he wouldn’t growl and attack through the bars.
2. Eventually, I was able to let them have separate playtimes in the same room. Beulah would mark but Quincy didn’t. I think this stage caused some bad feelings at first, especially for Quincy, who did not like seeing another bunny approach his cage and mark around it. But when there is only one room, you don’t have much choice for exercise.
3. Letting them roam together was out of the question, but I finally worked up the guts to put them in the tub together. They stayed far away from each other, and banana on the head did not attract them. At least it was quiet, though sometimes Quincy would chase.
4. I needed to get them closer, so I’d put them in a Tupperware box, with the lid adjusted so they could breathe but not get out. If Quincy started trouble I’d stop it immediately with a gentle shake or a squirt. Eventually, though, I realized this might be something they have to do to work things out, so if Quincy got a little nippy I’d watch *very* closely and break it up only if he went overboard.
5. Previously, if I tried to let them roam free together, a frightening fight would break out. But after all this I was able to let them have playtime at the same time. They didn’t really want much to do with each other and Quincy might chase, but it was definitely a good step. But by no means could I confine them together.
6. Eventually I worked up the guts to do car rides. (People kept recommending this, but I was scared to try it.) This helped immensely because they’d mellow out in the car, and Quincy would be so freaked out that when we got home he’d be a much calmer bunny for Beulah. During this time I’d also occasionally switch cages, hoping to confuse them on territory.
7. As things smoothed out we all decided it was time to take the plunge and build a new, neutral cage. I did this, making sure I could separate them if it got rough. I was able to keep them together all evening but had to separate them at bed time. But after that they did so well I actually left them together all day, not wanting to disturb anything. I never had to separate them after that. It was really amazing how fast things worked out once they started to get along.

They are still doing great, sharing one cage in one room. No more marking! They still push each other around, especially at feeding time, and Quincy never gave up mounting Beulah. I don’t worry though, because they are so snuggly the rest of the time. Even outside the cage they rest from play flopped next to each other. Amazingly, Quincy, the territorial bunny, more often and not is the one to submit. I often catch him grooming Beulah!

I’m not sure if this was the info you were looking for, but hopefully there are some ideas there for helping cope with the small space, and hope that things will work out. Again, that one of the bunnies is super friendly gives me hope for a much quicker bond than I had.

[lwayne]

Thanks for your help Battie! I read through all of your bonding posts. Our situation seems similar in that we had the same reasons for getting a second bunny and that the original bunny had all of the territory. It is a little different in that our house isn’t that small, it is just prior to getting Leo, we gave Arduina full run of the house while we were home and her own area is a full room (will eventually be the bunnies’ room). Even the bath tub is part of Arduina’s Queendom. Leo seems more like that first bunny you tried at the shelter. I am so glad your two bunnies are snuggle buns now!!! Congrats! I hope all of your hard work is paying off.

What I am going to have to do is confine Arduina back to a pen and make the bunny room their shared play area with both pens in there. I I can try a tupperwear box like you suggested and the drier/washer sessions, but once they are comfortable there I’ll have to move up to the bathroom. Hopefully by then Arduina will have forgotten that place.

Right now I am giving Leo time to heal and waiting for a new pen to arrive. I also have been switching litter boxes, and I just started with a dummy stuffed animal last night too.

[Deleted User]

Thanks, Battie, I had been wanting a summary of your bonding because it was so lengthy. Thanks a lot!

[lwayne]

 I got antsy about bonding the buns, and Leo is doing much better… 

So after the short hiatus, I tried putting them both in a box on the drier.  It didn’t go so well, like back to the beginning.  Leo is gaining his confidence and thus both were being aggressive and trying to bite the other one.  I could get them to lay down head to tail by petting both of them, but if I stopped for a minute, one would try to bite the other one, which I would have to intervene.  I know they both just want to duke it out for the top position.

It sucks that last week I had them running around the bathroom together and flopping in front of each other and now they just want to attack each other.  

I’ve still been switching litterboxes and the stuffed animal.  

[Deleted User]

Posted By lwayne on 05/08/2010 09:12 PM

 

It sucks that last week I had them running around the bathroom together and flopping in front of each other and now they just want to attack each other.  

 

I don’t know why, but rabbits are often friendlier in the very beginning and then start using more aggression as the sessions unfold. This is not necessarily a setback but just part of the process. I suppose when they first meet, they are overwhelmed and feeling out the other bun carefully, later on they gain confidence like you write about Leo and that’s when the dynamics can get heated.

[lwayne]

Maybe I should say back to pre-bonding…

Well I moved Leo into Arduina’s room (now the bunny room), they each have their own pen and will get separate play times in the shared room (Ideally). 

I tried letting Leo out for some exercise but he just ran over to Arduina’s pen and they tried to fight through the bars, since then I have put cardboard walls up but he still tries to ‘see whos behind there’.  Close supervision is needed. 

Since Leo has been sharing ‘her room’ and been in the ‘couped up’ pen, she has not been happy.  Leo hasn’t been either, I’ve never seen him so frantic, he is usually very chill.  Arduina has been ignoring litterbox habits so I haven’t switch their boxes yet.  I am also afriad to let her out in the room now that Leo has chinned everything. 

Her pen is 4x4ft while Leo’s is 2x4ft, since Leo’s is 2ft tall I had to make a top out of two of the panals.  Arduina’s pen is 30 inches high, do you think she could jump out of it?  Both are the precision exercise pens: http://www.petco.com/product/5874/Precision-Pet-Eight-Panel-Wire-Pens.aspx

I’m going to wait until they settle down (at least until next week) before I put them together for another bonding session.  The last one was before they were in the same room and that was on the dryer. I had to put a shoe in the dryer because they got use to the dryer going. They are ok when both are being pet, but as soon as I stop, they go at each other.  I don’t even think we are ready for car rides.

Any suggestions are welcome. (How bad does it get before it starts to get better? and how soon?!!)

[Deleted User]

I would not let them share the room. They can smell each other and it is escalating the aggressive actions you are seeing as both want to claim that space. Yes, a bunny can jump 30″ high. Can you move one of them out of that room?
The dryer is not the same as a car ride, car rides are usually more effective than dryer rides. Do you have someone who will drive a car while you have a session with the rabbits in it?

[lwayne]

Oh no.. now I’m really freaking out. I thought about getting the 48in pen but we thought it was too ridiculous and I seem to remember the pens at the bunny sanctuary being 30in.

I’m at work now and have a busy day, I’m not sure if I can make it home. I just emailed my Significant Other to see if he could run home to check on them.

I’m not sure where we can put Leo that he would have some exercise space too. I think the living room is too open for his play time and our bedroom isn’t bunny proofed. The basement is being painted by our new roommate so that is out (thats why we moved Leo upstairs).

Edit:  S.O. just emailed back said he can run home in an hour and then at lunch to move Leo in to the living room!  Thanks Petzy for your help and quick replies!  I’ll have S.O. drive us around.. or maybe I’ll drive and have him pet the bunnies (I get car sick).  

[Deleted User]

about the height, use a sheet clipped on the top of the pen to be safe.

[lwayne]

Update:

We’ve been doing car rides in a big tupperware bin. It seems to help take the focus off of fighting, they usually just lay down next to each other (head to tail) the whole time. Once it is over and the motion sickness wears off, it is usually Arduina who starts the nipping. She’ll nip Leo, and then to ‘get her back’ he’ll nip her. I’m afraid if I don’t intervene with them in such close quarters it will turn into them circling each other. They are good as long as I continue to pet them. I think they may need to work out whos the alpha, but I’m afraid it will turn into a big fight since they are both are aggressively nipping. Would it help to be in a larger space (like the bathtub)?

How long is this supposed to go on for? How do I know when to move up to the next step (bathtub)? When will they start getting along? Both seem to want grooms from the other one, but don’t want to give them.

[Deleted User]

At this stage you want to just pet them calm. If you take your hands off and they go back to reciprocal nipping — you go back to stroking them calm. Don’t move on until they sit peaceably in the bin together. A larger space will only give them a better starting point for harder altercations.

[lwayne]

 Update:

We have continued using the big tupperware bin, but just in the house.  I’ll shake them around a little in the beginning and then set it somewhere.  Arduina has stopped nipping at Leo!  Leo on the other hand looks like he is gaining the upper hand.  He’ll ask for grooms and when he doesn’t get them nip at her and she doesn’t fight back (good sign!).  I’ve tried to stay out of the picture, but ready with the squirt bottle or a shake to the bin, if they get out of hand.  

We tried the banana trick, and it worked!  Arduina started grooming Leo’s head and ears when he asked for grooms.  He hasn’t groomed her, but if he is becoming the top bun he might not for a while.  We’re going to try more banana tonight!  

 

Here is a video from earlier in the week.. back when Arduina was still nipping at Leo.  They aren’t doing a whole lot, but if you turn the volume up you can hear my S.O say “Are you going to post this to binkybunny?… Thats all she does all day is read binkybunny”.  *teehee* 

[jerseygirl]

haha @ your SO’s commentary. I’m glad I heard you say Arduina too as I’ve always wondered how it is pronounced. You are very polite to them!

They are doing well in this box. The dominance thing will likely switch alot yet. It’s too soon to tell where it’ll be after they are bonded. They’re still learning how to relate to each other etc.

[lwayne]

Hehe thanks Jerseygirl.

I forgot to add that this past weekend we had company so I had to move Arduina into the living room with Leo. They are on separate sides (~7ft apart) and can’t see each other very well. During their individual play times we would put up cardboard around the other one’s pen, but as of 2 days ago we haven’t had to do that! They will fight a little through the bars, but nothing more than a little bit of nipping and digging to get to the other one. We do keep a close eye on them though.

Last night we had the buns in the bin and I put it in the bath tub (as an adjustment to the next step). They were doing so well I had them in there for a while (>1h). Leo was able to mount Arduina a few times, she tried to get away but didn’t fight back. I did more of the banana trick and they both groomed it off! They got pretty icky with pee and poo so I emptied them into the bath tub for a few minutes. Arduina licked Leo once or twice when he asked but that was about it. They did pretty good in the tub. Arduina flopped a bunch and Leo either asked for grooms or groomed himself. We’re progressing!

[Deleted User]

Iwayne, sometimes a set-back is a progress in disguise if that makes sense. It’s like an argument clears the air, you know?
I love that video you posted! They are two gorgeous rabbits and the bin is evidently working very well. Stick with this bin for a while longer. I like the name Arduina a lot after hearing you say it!

[lwayne]

Oh sorry I should have said how to pronounce Arduina. It is like Ard-ween-a (ina as in Nina).

I let my S.O. name her and I guess arduino is some sort of computer thing, but Arduina is a girl, so we had to make the name female. Thats what happens when you let guys pick names. Now if you ask him (after consulting google) he’ll say Arduina was Goddess of the Forests (Ardenne Forest in France). Goddess fits with her. 

[lwayne]

Oh yeah we had some grooming last night!!  (no banana needed)

Leo groomed Arduina! Like several times and not just on the head and ears!  Shortly after he put his nose down and demanded grooms from her.  She turned her nose up at him though.  While in the bin for a while they both just munched on hay.

I wish I had my camera… I put them in the bath tub for a couple minutes at the end of their session and they both flopped nose to nose for a second!  Arduina was binkying and they both kept flopping.  Leo kept demanding grooms and I think Arduina doesn’t get it yet.  I think she tired to but ended up biting his ears/nose, which he didn’t like.   

[lwayne]

 Things are starting to pick up and going well!!

Saturday we took them for a short car ride (recycling center and back ) in the travel carrier.  Afterwards I just had them sitting by my desk still in the carrier and they did extremely well.  So well (just lying down hangin out, munching on hay), I didn’t want to put them back in separate cages.  Since it was mid morning and I figured they would just sleep all day anyway, I decided to take them into work with me! (I had to go in for a couple of hours).  

While at work, I caught them grooming each other!  Both of them groomed the other one.  They ate lots of hay and drank from the same water bottle.  In total they were probably in the carrier together for 5hr with no mishaps whatsoever.  

 

Last night we did another bath tub session.  This time I had my ipod/video ready to go:

In this video, Arduina is flopped and Leo comes up to sniff under her tail and tries to mount.  Literally, this is the extent of their ‘fighting’ now.

 

Here they both flop at different times, Ardiuna does take out some of Leo’s fur.. they are still working out who grooms who.

 

Dinner time!  I gave them a piece of lettuce to eat (I tore it into smaller bits)

 

And the finale!!  Bath time!!  Arduina grooms Leo for several minutes (it goes on longer than the video).  (I think he had some dried banana stuck on his ear from the other day ).

 

 

One thing that I’ll need to figure out when they start sharing a pen is food.  Arduina is very food crazy and will eat everything she gets in a couple of minutes, Leo on the other hand will munch a little throughout the day.  I’ve already seen Arduina try to get his food through the pen bars!  I worry that she will try to eat all of his food… she is already over weight and on a diet.  How do I resolve this issue?  They get fed 2x a day, due to work and all, I can only feed them max 3x per day.  

 

[Deleted User]

Oh, I am in love with Arduina! I want to bond her to mrmac’s Dexter and take them home! Where did you get her? The videos are very well done, especially since I do believe you are the first to introduce live commentating! “Locked horns”, haha.
The bonding is happening, don’t you think?

About the feeding, this can be a problem indeed. I just noticed yesterday how skinny Neigey in my quartet has gotten. He doesn’t get enough because Deirdra is a food bully. The only remedy I can think of is to feed them just the basic amount and if Leo isn’t getting enough, treat him with extra pellets by hand. Would that work?

[lwayne]

Haha, I always do commentary even when I’m not recording. (“Oh and Arduina just flopped, Leo is coming in, sniffing her tail, and ut Arduina just inched forward…”).

I was thinking about feeding Leo by hand, he actually eats better that way anyway.

Since he woke us all up (including our new downstairs neighbor) last night at 4 am with thumping. I think I might try to have them sleep in the carrier together tonight, in our room of course. I’m a very light sleeper. Their pens are in the living room above our downstairs neighbor, so it is either try them in the carrier together for the night or move them back in to the bunny room. I am hoping to do the cementing soon in the bunny room (trying to make this be neutral area again, needs one more cleaning). Our bedroom isn’t big enough (not enough wall space) for a cage/pen.

[4Lily]

WOW! Was really thinking of getting anouther bunn eventually, but don’t know if I could do! I wouldn’t want anouther bun to hurt Lily or vise versa! They are so cute! I give everyone credit for bonding bunns!

[Deleted User]

It just reminded me of the olympics in gymnastics or something where two commentators chat back and forth, hehe.

[jerseygirl]

Arduina has such a pretty face! Watching Leo reminded me of Rumball (only with uppy ears). He also presents for grooming while Jersey is grooming herself and has that same half-closed eye look.

It’s looking really good lwayne. Feeding pellets by hand to Leo is a great idea. It will help develop the bond between you and him too. Forming that bond is different to when it’s just one bunny.

My 2 had eating differences too and still do to some degree. Rumball tended to eat later at night. He also would eat some and leave some whereas Jersey would devour in one sitting. Rumball eventually adjusted to the the feeding shcedule and was more enthusiatic about the food when it was offered. I sort of adjusted the feeding to a time in between – so a bit later then Jersey was used to, a bit earlier for Rumball. They both seemed ready for the food then and it was their new established feeding time.

[lwayne]

 I’ve been letting them run around the whole bathroom and they are still doing good . Granted I get tired for sitting in the bathroom every evening.

It is funny, Leo follows Arduina around asking for grooms. She has just been trying to ignore him or she’ll as him to groom her. Sometimes Arduina will flop right beside Leo when he comes asking for grooms. The other day they both flopped within inches of each other, for like 10 minutes! I also started feeding them their veggies together. That is going well, no problems except Arduina eats super fast (her nick name among my friends is “the lettuce vacuum”). They still get pellets separate (in the morning), Leo is still on the same kind he had at the rescue center (they gave me like 10lbs of pellets!).

After a while Leo will get annoyed and chase her around trying to mount her. She doesn’t like it and will nip him back. This situation can easily escalate so I can’t leave them alone for even a second. I do keep a spray bottle around too.

Last night I tried them both in the bigger of their two pens (4ftx4ft). They did ok, but not as good as in the bathroom. I’ve been switching them in the pens every day and thats not too much of a problem (except when the sun comes up at 4:30am and they start getting antsy about breakfast. S.O. has been feeding them their pellets .

[lwayne]

Here is a video of Arduina and Leo eating their veggies together. I’ve been feeding them their daily veggies together for the past five evenings. In this video it is in one of the pens (semi-neutral area). They do get along better in the neutral bathroom.

[Elrohwen]

Awww, munchies!! They make such a cute couple.

[Sarita]

Oh, look at them! Cute video.

[lwayne]

When can I start cementing??!  I’d love to do it this weekend (since I have to be home for 48hrs?).  If I can’t do it this weekend it will have to wait until mid-july. I’ve got some weekend things coming up and also I’ll be out of town at the end of June for a week (Banff, AB!).

I just got a big tarp to use as a floor covering for one of the pens, (should I use the 4x4ft or the 2x4ft pen?).  I’m going to do it back in ‘the bunny room’, since they haven’t been in there for weeks, and I’ll still cover the sides for a few days.

They seem fine in the bathroom (neutral), but I still don’t trust them in none-neutral area (the current 4x4ft pen they ‘hot swap’). Is this ok? I think as long as I ‘break down’ all of the neutral ground (ie hose down pen outside and spray with vinegar and use brand new floor covering).  The only issues they still have is Leo likes to follow Arduina around asking for grooms.  She sometimes will groom him, usually she’ll ignore him, sometimes she’ll get annoyed and nip.  He’ll get annoyed he’s not getting groomed and nip her, she’ll nip back. If we are in the bathroom, I do not need to interfere.  Leo will groom Arduina when she flops in front of him, as if to say “this is how you do it”.

So yes, they still have some issues to work out, but at this rate I feel they need more time together (more than the 2 hours I spend a night with them in the bathroom).  So what do you guys think?  Try it this weekend?

 

Arduina says Hi! —–> ki6l888fgrt7

(she jumped on the key board)

 

[Deleted User]

Posted By lwayne on 06/08/2010 07:25 AM

they still have some issues to work out, but at this rate I feel they need more time together (more than the 2 hours I spend a night with them in the bathroom).  So what do you guys think?  Try it this weekend?

 

 

Yes, it’s time to cement. Those issues won’t go away until they are cemented. Basically, when they interact in any ways, other than fighting, you can move them in together into a neutral habitat for setting their new bond.

Maybe Arduina is trying to post something in the Bun Chat thread….

[Deleted User]

Posted By lwayne on 06/08/2010 07:25 AM

 I’ll be out of town at the end of June for a week (Banff, AB!).

 

Lucky you!

Banff is my favorite place, however this is not me in the canoe, I’m just dreaming…

[lwayne]

I’m going to a conference there for 4 days (yep getting the boss to pay!). Then going hiking/backpacking!!! We’ll probably stay in the Banff area.. although I’d love to make it up to Jasper some day!

We’ll see how the bunnies go this weekend! Thank you for your encouragement! So I am going to start it friday night, camp out with them and see how things go from there. Any other tips?

[Deleted User]

Lucky you! A conference in Banff!

Be careful with toys, hide-outs and other loved items during the cementing phase. watch if these cause a conflict. Also, supply several litter boxes. Make lots of coffee for yourself….

[lwayne]

 So Arduina and Leo spent the night together.. and did awesome!!   They were together for 13 hours before I had to separate them and leave for work (can’t wait until this weekend!).  No problems whatsoever during the night.

I had them in the bathroom, where I’ve been doing the bonding sessions.  I barricaded the door with some cardboard so I could still leave it open and hear/see if anything were to go wrong.   

I’m a very light sleeper and usually get up several times during the night anyway.  Around 2:30a Leo was thumping, I went in and they were sitting side by side and he was asking for grooms, I did see her groom him and he stopped for the rest of the night.  They woke up around 5a when it was getting light out and started playing around (knocking over the toilet brush and making noise).  I gave them the rest of their salad from last night to keep them quiet a little longer.  Around 6a Arduina clears the cardboard barricade and comes running into our bedroom!  Hah, I knew she had been planning her escape all night.  

When we got up around 6:30a, I gave them 1/2 of their normal pellets (they are still on two different kinds since the shelter gave me like a 10lbs bag).  Arduina ate her’s 2x as fast and tried to go in on Leo’s.. I’ll have to figure out what to do about this for when I go out of town in  a couple weeks.   This morning there also was a little bit of mounting from the both of them, I guess they are still sorting this out.  Arduina also leaves territorial poos, not many though (luckily no more pee).  

Friday evening I’ll put them in their cementing pen in the room they haven’t been into in weeks.  I figure I’ll get everything all washed out and set up, then take them for a car ride (to confuse them a little on where they are) and then put them in the cementing pen together (sides will be covered too).

[Deleted User]

Woohoo! I’m happy for them! The bonds just keep on coming! BBers must be on a roll ~

If your rabbits eat different pellets I would just ak their sitter to feed them alone, separately.

[Elrohwen]

Congrats!

For the different pellets, have you started switching Leo over at all? Or is he totally on the other pellets? Hannah was halfway to Oxbow when they moved in – her Kaytee pellets gave Otto poopy butt, so I just switched her over to all Oxbow and she was fine (luckily). I donated the rest of the Kaytee to the bunny shelter and they were happy to have it. Maybe you could do this? Or just separate them for feeding.

I know someone who built an NIC cube and put it over her dwarf bunny, with pellets inside, to separate her for feeding. lol Otherwise her much larger bondmate would eat all of her food.

[lwayne]

 Wahoo!  We are approaching 24 hours with no problems .  

This morning during their active time, there were some mounting arguments (both of them trying to mount the other).  Arduina did loose a tuft of fur when Leo mounted her.  I did catch them flopped next to each other early this morning, but for their daytime napping, they have been mostly ignoring each other.  That’s the extent of their ‘issues’.   

They act more like roommates than lovers (ie tolerating the other one’s presence and not playing together).  Hopefully this will change and they’ll become good friends?

So assuming they’ll make it through this 48 h watch period, it is safe to say they’ll be ok Monday morning when I have to go to work?  We started cementing Friday evening when I got home from work.  

Currently they are in this pen (4x4ft), but eventually I’d like to give them play time in this room (bedroom sized).  How long do I have to wait to let them out of the 4×4 pen?

 

These pictures were taken last night shortly after they moved in together.  Eating a yummy salad together!

 

As for pellets, it seems Arduina is more interested in what Leo is eating than what is in her bowl (I’ve been giving them their pellets in separate bowls).  I just started switching Leo over to Arduina’s pellets, but maybe I’ll just mix the two so I don’t have to worry about who’s eating who’s pellets?  Other wise I have to keep shoeing Arduina away from Leo’s bowl, even though she’s got plenty in her bowl.  Both pellets are Timothy based and they only get a little each day (3 T each per day).  Is that ok?  

The main issue with pellets and food in general is that Leo likes to snack all day, while Arduina gorges on what’s in front of her.  I can feed them 3x a day to split it up a bit. However, the pet sitter will probably only be coming by once a day (for 3 days, while we are both gone).  I really need to keep Arduina on a diet and monitor how much she eats (vet will be mad if she hasn’t lost any weight by the fall!).  

[Deleted User]

Iwayne, how are things in the cementing pen?

[lwayne]

 Awesome!  No more 5am waking me up either. I’ve been letting them out in the bunny room while we are home for some exercise. They are both adorable together! Leo follows Arduina around the room (like when we come in or walk around Arduina follows us around like she always does, and then Leo follows her around) but I haven’t seem him chase her, he just likes being next to her, totally in love.

Arduina still doesn’t care much for him (when we are around, I’ve caught her smoochin’ him!), but will groom him if he asks politely (he’ll groom her too). I still have been seeing the ‘locked horns’ (no you groom me!) but it ends after a couple of seconds either with Arduina getting bored and wandering off or her grooming Leo. I took some pictures of a grooming session during exercise play time. I will try to post them soon. They were both flopped next to each other, but Arduina got up when I got up to get the camera, but then went back to Leo to groom him. When she was done, he groomed her back a little, while she did her feet.

I would pretty much say they are *BONDED*.   It has been a full 5 days, plus two nights they were together too.   I haven’t seen mounting in about 3 days.  I think the exercise has helped with that because it was only in the morning (5am) when they were also hungry for breakfast.  

 

Soon I would like to let them both have free range of the bunny room (bed room sized).  The room is already Arduina proofed and Leo is much better behaved then Arduina anyway (except for digging, he’s a digger).  I might try it this weekend and see how it goes.  Before we brought Leo home, Arduina had full run of the room 24/7.  (I was surprised how well they are doing during play time since the room was Arduina’s territory, I think they have worked out their issues.)

[lwayne]

 Here are the pictures from last night and tonight during their out of pen play time!

 

Both almost flopped (they were before I got the camera)

 

Arduina is grooming Leo!!!

 

Leo helping Arduina groom

 

This was from tonight, both watching me, wanting me to play with them!

 

 

 

Can I say **officially bonded** yet???

[jerseygirl]

Can I say **officially bonded** yet???

haha! Well, the pictures certainly say so. Congrats, they’re beautiful!

[Deleted User]

OOOoh! so handsome! I just love them. Now I wish I just had a pair! I also like your wooden hidey hut.
Congrats! (did I already say that?)

[leyley904]

Arduina is so beautiful! Congratulations with the bond!

[lwayne]

 Aww thanks!  Thank you all for helping me through the process.  It was time consuming and stressful, but well worth it.  

 

Petzy, the bunny house S.O. helped me built this past winter.. there are some pictures in this thread: 

https://binkybunny.com/tabid/54/afv/topic/aff/4/aft/108435/Default.aspx

 

Arduina has figured out how to jump up onto my desk (over 3ft high!!) to get to where I keep Leo’s left over pellets.  She prefers his food over her own, so I’m just mixing the two brands until I run out of Leo’s kind.  They seem to do better eating out of one bowl and Leo doesn’t seem to care which kind he gets.  

Here you can see how high my desk is, she can clearly jump from floor to desk if temped by pellets.  Can you spot her in this picture?

Litterboxes: can I pair it down to one??  Leo has started using the hay basket also as a litterbox, I think the two in there confuse him. I’m going to try it tonight with only one.  

 

Next post will be a tips and things I’ve learned about the bonding.  I need to gather my thoughts a little more.  

[Deleted User]

She is on the chair! So hard to spot! I had to look for a while to see her. Nice desk, too….

[Deleted User]

I went to the thread about the bunny house. I want one, too. Let me paste it here again to show everybody. Your S.O. did a great job!

 

[lwayne]

Leo is sitting on my chair now too! I guess he found Arduina’s favorite spot. (When she was free run, that is where she would sleep all day and all night).

[Deleted User]

Don’t they chew up the pretty desk?

[lwayne]

between that apple bitter stuff and tobasco sauce they don’t touch it. they have plenty of other things to chew on, like their house!

[lwayne]

The bunnies are officially bonded!!   The whole process took about 8 weeks in total from the day we brought Leo home until now when I can say they are completely bonded.  

Even though I’m still new to having a pair and have only gone through the bonding process once, I’d like to comment on somethings I’ve learned along the way.  

First of all, I was skeptical at the bunny dating… Arduina didn’t seem interested in anyone (she tried to fight/nip at every bun).  However, Leo was friendly toward her (lowering his head in front of her wanting to be groomed, ie not fighting back) so we decided to bring him home.   

The first week or so they did ok running around the neutral downstairs bathroom.  We had some issues with neutral space in that Arduina thought the whole house was her Queendom (she wasn’t allowed in the downstairs bathroom and had only been there once when she was a baby).  When we had a new house mate move in downstairs we moved them upstairs and thats when the big fight broke out.  Leo was in Arduina’s territory.

Breaking down Arduina’s Queendom was probably what slowed the whole thing down.  Not being able to keep Leo in Arduina’s room put a damper on things until we needed the room as a guest room.  We moved her out into the living room with Leo.  From there they had separate play times in the living room and bonding each night for ~2 hrs.  

We progressed as much as the bunnies wanted to.  For example, when Leo or Arduina tore down the cardboard surrounding the other one’s pen, we knew it was time to take it down (they originally fought through the bars).  

The turning point where things started to pick up quickly was in the box (big green tupperware container) when we stepped back (not quite so literally).  Instead of petting them to calm them down and keep them from not fighting, I would shake the box if one of them started to pick a fight.  Arduina learned quickly and completely stopped nipping at Leo.  Leo took the upper hand and we would then use the spray bottle on him.    I did this in the bathtub and when they were more focused on trying to jump out of the bin then trying to fight with each other, we moved up to the bath tub.  Same in the bathtub, when they were more focused on jumping out of the tub then nipping at each other, we moved up to the bathroom.  

Once they were able to run around the bathroom (now neutral) with no fighting and we saw some positive interactions (licking and eating together).  I had them spend two nights in the bathroom (I’m a light sleeper) with the door barricaded.  After that I took the larger (4x4ft) pen and washed it really good and set up a neutral pen back in the bunny room (they hadnt been in there in 4 weeks or so) with a brand new tarp as the floor covering.  I spent the weekend with them, and they did great, no fighting whatsoever.

In conclusion:

Progress as they are ready (once more focused on finding a way out than nipping/fighting, move to the next step).  Also, plan your next two steps ahead of time (it may come sooner than you think!).

Sometimes stepping back (aka not interfering) helps them sort things out, either shake the bin/cube their in or use a spray bottle (shaking worked to stop Arduina while spray bottle worked for Leo).

 

[Author]

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