and Charlie makes 5, I hope

[kralspace]

I almost dread facing this since things have been going to well with the four. But Charlie has been crashing around his condo like a wildman and trying to chew his way through the cloroplast and grids. I had him out last night for the first time since the neuter a week ago and he seems fine. Wasn’t the least bit humpy towards the cats or marking, just ran around trying to triple chin everything in the front part of the house.

How would you suggest I start? I’ve left a towel in Charlies cage for a couple of weeks now, would it help to put it on the floor for the others to get used to the smell, or rub each one of them with it so they all have a bit of his smell?

While they might look up when he’s making an ungodly racket up in his condo, they really haven’t shown any interest in him at all.

On the good side, when he’s been out and about, then they come later, there’s no frantic marking or peeing everything he’s chinned.

Bonding box?

[Deleted User]

whatever you do, don’t start in their room. Neutral space, use only neutral space to play it safe.

[mrmac]

Dennis had a blankie that the adoption lady gave us when we got him, it is infused with “Dennis”. I put it in the living room one day for the trio to smell, it started a HUGE scuffle. The blankie WAS Dennis! Davey growled at it and ran. Davey and Delilah got into one of their “You calm down…now!” tiffs and Dexter ran for cover. If Charlie’s scent is new to the quartet then go slowly, but if they are around his smell during out times and are more used to it you could switch blankets back and forth.

[Deleted User]

krals, I would try one-on-one intros to pinpoint who might have an issue with Charlie and then work with that particular bun before trying group sessions.

[kralspace]

When I do the intros, should I make sure and go through all the pairings in one evening so they all will have his scent? I was worried that if I tried just one or two the others might get aggressive towards them when I put them back smelling differently. Although, since his condo is just a few feet above the floor in the bunny room, I guess they’re familiar with it.

[Sarita]

I don’t think I’d do all of them in one night – he’ll probably get too grumpy by the last one.

[kralspace]

You’re probably right, Sarita

I think I’ll start with Pringles

1. She’s big, she’s the queen and no one will bother her much if she smells funny
2. She’s a shameless hussy and likes to collect boy toys and may take to him quickly

[Sarita]

LOL – You should have called her Madonna :~)

[MissKris&Koji]

Haha – I love it! Keep us posted, I’m living vicariously through everyone else right now and trying desperately to find distractions from homework.

[Deleted User]

no, don’t make meetings of all the pairings in one session. It’s too much for a bunny.

[Beka27]

Can you have him in a NIC cube on the ground level to see how they interact? Just a thought? It’s *supposed to* get easier once you start introducing multiple bunnies into a warren-like group…

but of course with bunnies, *supposed to* doesn’t always mean diddly-squat!

[kralspace]

I’ve had a busy 2 weeks with work and jury duty and been getting up early. Yesterday I turned on the light way before daylight and found all four sacked out together in the middle of the room. They shifted and sat up by the time my camera focused, but just before that it was just a pile of black and white fur. Silly buns.

[mrmac]

Bunny love!!! You can’t tell wher one ends and the other begins!

[kralspace]

and just like kids, as soon as you brag on them…………………

I woke up to a ruckus in the bunny room and found Lola, Pringles and Daisy in a three way fight, everyone had a hold of everyone else and spinning in a circle. My coming in and yelling broke it up so I went into the kitchen to watch through the window.

Lola was charging everyone and biting and in retaliation they were pulling chunks of her hair out (she didn’t get any of theirs at all). I went in with the spray bottle and noise makers several times when it got more serious than circling. Finally she charged Pringles and broadsided her,nearly knocking her off her feet and getting hold of her belly hair and doing that headshaking pit bull thing she does to me sometimes. I grabbed her but couldn’t get her to let go until I used my fingers to pry her mouth open. Luckily Pringles was ok and she had just latched onto hair.

The other bunnies were not being aggressive towards Lola that I could see at all, just trying to scoot out of her way. Pringles wouldn’t run from her, but she didn’t attack either, just stood her ground.

I know they have to sort out problems among themselves, but I felt I couldn’t leave them like that and popped Lola into the carrier that was still in the room from taking Toby to the vet yesterday. She’s got food, hay and water and a soft towel, but not much room. I would like to say that she’s thinking over what she did, but in reality she’s probably plotting my death in bed tonight

Should be interesting tonight.

[Sarita]

I wonder if the fact that you took Toby to the vet for his dental and brought him back set this off. Maybe just threw them off balance that little change for the day. That would be new to Lola and Daisy.

It’s just so hard to know what the heck they must be thinking but somehow Lola must have felt insecure to get defensive. She must need more time to start trusting the others.

[kralspace]

That’s true, Sarita, I hadn’t thought of that. They’re not used to Toby disappearing and coming back smelling differently, especially since the staff love to play with him all day. He was the only one not involved in the fray.

I spend more time with Lola than the others since they became a group and try to give her time to roam the house each evening without the others. Toby goes every month, I wonder how I can diffuse the situation next time. She’s letting me pet her more now since I learned the cheek rubs. Do you have any suggestions on how I can make her feel more secure in the group?

Good thing she’s got a boatload of extra fur.

[Sarita]

I think the only thing that might make her feel more secure is time. It’s really only been a short time at this point since they are all together and hopefully as time goes by her anxiety will lessen and she will feel more secure and trust the rest of the group.

[kralspace]

I feel sorry for her and wish I could make her feel better. I was just under 2 years old when my mother had triplet girls and I was always thrown into that group so I know what it ‘s like to not be able to get away from a crowd. And seeing as she had so many homes and Pringles has been our house Queen since she was 8 weeks old I don’t doubt she feels insecure.

I guess we’ll keep trucking on and see what happens.

[Sarita]

Did you try the Rescue Remedy with her?

Wow triplets! That’s unusual but very cool. Does that run in your family twins and triplets?

[kralspace]

No, I haven’t, but I’ll give her a bite before I turn her loose tonight, it really chills the piggies out for their baths and nail clipping. And maybe try to add some more things to the room that might keep her busy.

Twins do run a bit in our family. Within the triplets, there is a set of identical twins and they don’t look anything like the third…lol. The twins look like my mother’s side and the third looks like my dad’s family. The daughter of one of the twins also had twins so anyone in our family is scared to get pregnant!

Lolas’ still shedding heavily despite brushing, do you know of anything that might help her finish out, maybe she’s really touchy about that. Midol or some comfort food?

[Sarita]

LOL – midol or some comfort food, that made me laugh. Maybe the Rescue Remedy will help her.

Oh dear, I can imagine you would be scared to get pregnant in your family :~)

[Deleted User]

I recommend again a neutral condo to cement them, you have not done that yet. Small neutral space is key to prevent the setting up of camps. I know they interact already but the fight shows that some thing was claimed by somebunny (unless it was Toby’s dental that set off the fight).

[jerseygirl]

so I went into the kitchen to watch through the window

ha! You’re brave!
Good call on the vet visit may being the trigger. Something obviously pushed Lolas buttons. It might give you a clue in to potential issues once you intro Charlie. Of course, with rabbits, nothing is a sure thing! Anyway, I was thinking maybe bonding Lola and Charlie first might be the best way to proceed when the time comes. Thoughts anyone?

I never did a long cementing time with my pair and I sometimes wonder if this contributed to Jerseys littering problem. Petzy, I’m interested in your thoughts. Could Kathy forego cementing now, bring in Charlie to bond and then do a proper cementing of the five. Or do you foresee his arrival may upset some already tentative bonds?

[Deleted User]

Charlie has to be introduced in a new space but it would be better to cement them with him…
Krals, do you have such a space, a condo in a different room maybe?

Jerseygirl (the rabbit) is a mystery to me, as far as her littering goes…

[kralspace]

I’m not sure of what would be considered nuetral at this point. The bunnies have all lived in every room at some point or the other, and during playtime have had access to the entire house for four years.

After a friend picks up the treadmill this weekend there would be room in my diningroom/office to rebuild a condo. What would be your definition of a safely neutral spot in a house like mine, Petzy?

[Karla]

I’m excited to hear about your 5th bond! I have been ignoring everybody else’s bonding threads, because I’m sick of bonding right now and don’t want to be confronted with stories, but I just had to have a peep at this one

What about the bathroom? Front yard?

[kralspace]

I had thought about the yard, but here in Texas the heat index is well over 100 degrees this week even by dusk (any time it might cool like at dawn or dusk we get mosquitoes big enough to cart even Pringles away) They’re all familiar with the bathroom, they like to lay on the cool tiles. My dog may come into play before it’s all over with.

I’ve been following your bonding too, just saw the videos you posted. Don’t you just wish we could wag our fingers at the feisty ones and just say Stop It Already! ? 😉

[Deleted User]

Posted By kralspace on 07/16/2010 09:40 AM
What would be your definition of a safely neutral spot in a house like mine, Petzy?

 

The condo I had envisioned for you for this purpose would be off the ground and have a new flooring so that they would get the impression of being in a neutral place. Do you have a table you can use to build a temporary cementing condo on it?

[kralspace]

I’m pretty dangerous with a hammer and can build whatever I need to, measuring in NIC grids about how big would you recommend?

[Deleted User]

for five bunnies for cementing I would go with nothing less than 50″ L by 30″ W and high enough for them to jump over top of one another if need be.

[Deleted User]

oh, in grids I would go with 4 grids by 3.

[jerseygirl]

Krals, I hear Pringles is pretty dangerous with a hammer too.

Petzy – sorry, I hadn’t meant your thoughts on Jersey’s littering being related to no cementing after bond. I had meant your thoughts the cementing scenario for kralspace (which you gave). But I do appreciate your thoughts regarding the former all the same! I hadn’t meant to take this thread off topic into the Jersey saga. lol.

[Karla]

Posted By kralspace on 07/16/2010 01:25 PM
I’ve been following your bonding too, just saw the videos you posted. Don’t you just wish we could wag our fingers at the feisty ones and just say Stop It Already! ? 😉

Yes! If we could just explain to them that this is how it is supposed to be and they better behave. Good luck with your session. I’m impressed you just make a new condo like that.

[kralspace]

Well, at least for now, I’m going to call it a partial success. Pringles, Toby and Daisy are living very happily in the bunny room and I’ve moved Lola back into the living room. That last fight was more serious than I thought at first. Lola had numerous bites and a rip in her ear that are healing nicely, but I think she’s just not ready for the group. Even if I did the larger neutral bonding now, I wouldn’t trust leaving her with them again. She’s had that snarky attitude ever since I adopted her and I don’t think that will ever change.

I guess I was lulled into a false security with that 10 days of peace and then whatever set her off about Toby going to the vet really turned Pringles against her for good I’m afraid. Where Pringles used to go after her only after Lola had thoroughly harassed her for a while, she now lunges and goes for her every time she sees Lola and she means business.

Lola’s had a few days to rest up and seems to be much happier, even without Daisy.Since my computer’s in there, I spend a lot of time with her and brushing her and checking her wounds to make sure they’re ok and she’s really gotten into those cheek rubs. Now I get only a token savaging instead of the going for blood for daring to touch her. (but I love my diva)

I did move Charlie’s condo into the living room last night, but on the opposite side so they can see each other without being close. She hid under her tent at first, but by bedtime she was peeking out at him. This morning she was lying out in the open, ears up (haven’t seen that in a while) giving him her full attention, so at least she has some company. His condo is practically sitting on my computer so it’s a bit of a squeeze.

I’m hoping that perhaps she and Charlie might bond in the future and if they need their own space, then that’s what we’ll do. There’s been no scuffles in the bunny room since, and much less poop and no pee. Pringles and her boys seem to be joined at the hip and it’s hard to tell who’s who in the pile sometimes.

Ah well, 3 out of 4’s not bad. I appreciate all the help, I think for now I’m going to work on making Lola happy, whatever that turns out to be.

[MissKris&Koji]

Aww, sorry for the troubles. :/ But good that she’s healing up and seems happy. I’m the furthest from an expert but would probably take the same approach you are.

[Deleted User]

When I bonded the all-male quartet, they had lived together ten days also peaceably and before all hell broke loose. This is a risk in group bonding: there can be issues that had not been worked out in paired sessions and it can cause quite a revolution.

[Author]

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