am in tears and need support!

[mocha200]

i need support, today during bonding they had another fight. when i tried to break them up mocha attacked ME! when i set them back down they fought again. i am in tears mocha has never attacked me before. not that i don’t love lulu but i don’t think it was the right choise to get her, i never did bunny dateing eather. i am NOT going to give her away, but i might not try to bond them any more. i don’t know if i am just upset but it doesn’t seem like they aare getting anywere. i am not sure why i am crying but for some reason when Mocha attacked me i just bursted out in tears, and it isn’t like he hurt me or anything. and for some reason mocha has not been acting him self at all latley he seems under the weather and not as active and today duriing the bonding session he had runny poo. 

 

i don’t know what this all means and need some support.

thanks for being there

[mocha200]

if someone wants to move this to the lounge they can.

[Binkles]

:{ I would probably be tempted to cry if Little-Bit attacked me too, but you’ve got to realize that when bunnies are in fight-or-flight mode they don’t know what’s going on. They’re completely blinded by self-preservation/ rage. There is nothing else in their mind at that point, not you, not the other bunny, just blurry moving objects that are opposing him. I’m not an expert but I can almost guarantee you that Mocha didn’t look at you and think “Look there’s my loving owner, ATTACK!!”

Could it be that perhaps the reason Mocha hasn’t been acting himself might be BECAUSE he’s been feeling under the weather? If he’s feeling ill for some reason this could be a contributing factor to why they’re getting into fights too.

[usagi]

ooooo mocha it’s going to be ok! he probably just isn’t feeling well. and remember that bonding story (i don’t know whose it was, i just remember reading about it) where it took 7 months to bond? don’t get discouraged, it’s just a little funk. chin up, lil one, mocha still loves you. hugs.

[Elrohwen]

Awww, I know how discouraging it can be! I’m sure he didn’t mean to attack you – it’s extremely common for bunnies to bite anything in sight during a fight, which is why heavy gloves are recommended. Even the most docile bunny is going to try to protect itself during a fight.

Maybe take a break for a bit and come back to it in a few months. There’s a possibilty that Lulu’s hormones haven’t died down completely and if you give it more time things may go better. I know other people who have had similar stories.

What kind of runny poo is he having? Just cecals? Or something different? If it’s cecals, it could be caused by the stress or by a minor change in diet. If it’s something else, then he may actually be sick which could be causing his behavior towards Lulu.

[mocha200]

um.. well it is runny and kinda mushed together but it was the same color of his normal poo. i know i should have told you about mocha’s behavior before i started bonding but i just thought it was one of thoughs days that he wasn’t as hyper. i started bonding on a Wednesday and i noticed this behavior the day before. maybe i should have told you that and you guys could have warned me about starting to bond. ever sense bonding there feeding schedule has been a little whack so maybe i should hold off on bonding and get into a schedule and wait for things to calm down. then maybe i will start bonding again. but the thing is my family will think that’s dumb. and my mom was saying the other day on how she wished they were bonded. what should i do?

[usagi]

could you tell her that mocha is not feeling well, and that you have to wait until he feels better to get back to bonding? and calmly explain to her that bonding while mocha is sick could also make lulu sick, and a sick bunnies don’t bond well? and also perhaps you could explain to her (probably for the umpteeth time) how the bonding process can be a slow one.

you know mocha better than anyone, and you picked up on the fact that he wasn’t feeling well even before you saw anything. i think that shows really keen observation and connection with mocha on your part. u know what is best for your buns, if your family thinks its dumb, then they thinks it is dumb. i of all people know how hard it is to stand up to my family when they think i am doing something silly – their opinion of me is so important to me still, after all these years. but i think if you come from a place of strength and conviction, while also staying calm, that your parents will pick up on this. perhaps they will even feel proud of you for doing what you feel is right for the buns under the circumstances.

it sounds like a good idea to get back the feeding on schedule, and see if he starts feeling better. i don’t think you should give up, just wait a few days until mocha gets back to his normal self.

hang in there! it’s hard, i know – it feels like you against the world. but you do know what to do!  follow your gut!

[mocha200]

ok. i told her and she thought it was fine. but i still want help, i wish i could pay for petzy to fly down her and help me.

[usagi]

Good for you for talking to your momma!  Proud of you!  It can be really hard to do that, and sometimes takes a lot of guts.  But I am really glad that she saw where you were coming from, and responded well to your demeanor.  

Where has Petzy been these past few days?  Haven’t seen her on much… 

What we all really need is a teleportation device – that would get Petzy there real quick. 

Hang in there, ok?  

[Elrohwen]

Mocha, have you looked for a bunny rescue? The people who work at rescues have bonded many many pairs and would probably be happy to help you.

[Lintini]

Hang in there Mocha! I know you will be able to bond those 2 brats soon! If Mocha is feeling under the weather maybe you should let him recover a bit and try again. Maybe trying new things to stress bond them would work better too, keep those buns on their toes so they are too worried to attack eachother.

[jerseygirl]

There’s nothing wrong with stepping back for a day or so to let everything settle. It’ll give you time to regroup and you can observe Mocha to see is ok. It’s important to stay positive when bonding, so give yourself a little break. I’m sure you’ll feel better and ready to continue after that.
Sometimes rabbits will direct their aggression to the nearest convenient thing. Sometimes it’s the litterbox and they’ll toss it around. Sometimes it’s us…don’t take it personal. It’s good you picked up on Mocha maybe not being 100% well. That can certainly trigger aggression too. (Just remember this happen with Monkey and Moose recently.)

You hit a bump in the road and it’s easy to feel down about it. Many of us can relate to that for sure! Even if Petzy was there bonding your bunnies, this still could have happened. I’m sure she can tell you too, that there were times when she did bonding that she just had to stop for a mini break for the benefit of everyone >> Bunnies + humans!

Stay positive ! Things will look better soon.

[boogercj]

I agree 100% with everything said so far, esp. with Jerseygirl. A break in bonding can do the world of good. A lot of it is to do with your own resolve and positivity. If it’s not quite working, have a break for a day or two so you, yourself can regroup and re-affirm your belief that one day they will be best of friends.

A couple of months ago I went away on business and Anita, my girlfriend did bonding on her own. They had a massive scrap and Ariel ended up biting into “mummy’s” hand and wouldnt let go. IShe actually had to kind of shake her off, which wasn’t ideal but necessary. Anita’s now got a lovely scar on her hand. It happens, and we know Ariel didn’t mean to do it. Both bunnies looked really sad afterwards. I think they sometimes just see red and kind of go into a defensive frenzy.

Strangely, after that, we’ve only had to break them up one other time, which was the other night we tried a non-neutral space, so that was our fault.

I’d say take a break for a few of days and maybe next bonding session, try something different like a different room/environment or a different technique. That way the bunnies might not associate it with the previous experience, and will be more peaceful.

[Deleted User]

Where did you have sessions?

–Mocha and you need to take break like Jersey said. There is nothing I could do if these were my rabbits bonding, that you can’t do, Mocha 200.

Runny poo can be the result of too much stress from Lulu chasing him.

Once he is better, you need to find a setup where Lulu will not attack, I still think car rides will be your best bet because they worked so well last time with them. Sometimes in bonding you need go back one step before moving forward. The large pen is your ultimate goal but they need more time in less open quarters with stressors.

It doesn’t have to take you seven months (you may be thinking of member Battie on here, she had no neutral space which made her bonding extrememly hard) but it will take more than a ouple of weeks.

Use the time you take off from bonding to enjoy your rabbits, calm Mocha down and don’t be too upset with Lulu; attacking Mocha, the cat and you is a sign that she is feeling highly territorial. For next session, when Mocha is back to normal, think about using the van as a space where Lulu would be out of her own zone.
How is Mocha today?

[Deleted User]

OK. I looked up and see you started the bonding process on April 14, which is only 12 days ago. This is no time at all when it comes to bonding. I think you moved too fast from tub to open space. Sometimes this works but not always. Don’t feel bad about not bunny-dating; again, member Battie bunny-dated hers and it still took a long time.

I wonder if you are stressed out from pressuring yourself. Did you tell your mother it may take a few weeks or even longer? There are plenty of successful bonding stories that show how beautifully bunnies bond even though it took them a while. Rushing a bond will only give you set-backs for results. Your rabbits are not the most aggressive, they were flopping and binkying together already. Focus on the positive highlights. You had a great car ride with lots of snuggling. Whenever there are sessions that go really well, stick with the setup for several repetitions.

The only reason my rabbits bonded is because I kept at it without questioning the goal. When you start getting stressed and hurried and questioning the possibility of a bond, you are bound to lose patience and positive attitude. This happens to all of us with our rabbits during bonding. That’s when you take a break, howrver long you need. In your case at least until Mocha is back to normal.

Whatever you do, don’t go back to sessions in the large pen. It is too early for that. Most fights happen when the space was too large too early.

[mocha200]

i did it in my living room and they have both been there before could have this caused the fight? but they fought in the garage to but there cages used to be in there but they never went on the ground except once lulu did. i will start fresh when i start again ( btw i haven’t been home much to see if mocha is doing better or not) i will do LOTS of stress bonding to. hey petzy? can i ask you something? i was wondering by reading my storys if you could tell me when you think they are ready to go in a bigger pen? i told my mom that it would take a month or more. and it hasn’t even been two weeks. i think when she asked me she was just kinda wondering or something idk. i think i might start up again in a week or a half a week, but it really depends on mocha. i think he was stressed cuz there was no runny poo in his cage litter box only in the one in the bonding session.

[Deleted User]

When you start up again, use only neutral space. I think the pen on your garage floor was neutral but they just weren’t ready for the bigger space. It was too early. I have done it myself, thinking some rabbits were ready but they weren’t.
I cannot know, in fact nobody could know, when Lulu and Mocha will be ready for the transfer to the bigger space. So it is good you let your mother know that it may take a month or more. No pressure, right?
I’ve seen rabbits get runny poo during bonding. In a way it gives you some clues about their feelings too: you know that Mocha is really terrified of Lulu. That’s another reason why you saw more fighting; Mocha will feel defensive towards Lulu because she has scared him. A defensive rabbit will fight at some point. Don’t be discouraged by this because Mocha needed to realize one way or another that he was not going to be the boss of Lulu.
They need stress bonding so Lulu will be more subdued, but at the same time you want Mocha comfortable enough not to have a panick poo attack. For this reason I would focus on the car rides and the parked car as a bonding space. It is neutral but they have had a session in it before so Mocha should do well. Don’t just do one car session, but many. Even if they go very well, keep repeating them over and over. Let’s start with one whole week’s worth of car sessions. The space you use for the sessions makes all the difference. Can you get to your parents’ vehicle without leaving the house, I mean is your garage attached?

What were their fights like that they did have? Was any skin broken, how long did they last? Was Lulu the one to start them all, or did Mocha start them when she tried to approach him?

[MarkBun]

Just for your comfort, Maryann had never bitten me before or since bonding with Dono (except my sock covered feet – not sure why but she can’t help but nibble on them).  But one day during the bonding process when she was giving him an especially stinky eye, I walked behind her. She was startled, turned quickly and bit me hard on my ankle.  Sometimes during stressful situations rabbits will mistake friend for foe. 

If you’d like to be comforted a bit by seeing the terror and horror I had to go through, check out these vids:

 

 

[Moonlight_Wolf]

Wow markbun you really did go through a lot while bonding your two! That takes a lot of dedication to pull off a bond like that!

Mocha, don’t give up hope! And don’t feel too bad that your bunny bit you, once worked up I can imagine a bunny would have difficulty distinguishing friend from foe. Your bunny might have also been having a bad day, because of the runny poo and such, just give them a little break and then you can start again.

[Author]

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