Advice Needed – Headwars and Bunny Flops

[NetherPixie]

I am attempting to bond my boy (Buns, 1 year old, neutered July 12^th) and my girl Violet (3 years, spayed at least a year ago). I adopted Violet from a rescue and we did do a bunny date and it well enough that the rescue though there was a good chance at a bond.  I gave Violet about 10 days to settle in before we started the process. We have been bonding for a little over 2 weeks at this point.

I started with table bonding and head petting and that seemed to go well. I did that for a little over a week. Then graduated to the bathtub(lined with a rug) since it was a neutral space and things went pretty well. There was still some dominant behavior, moistly humping from Violet and headwars. The occasional nip here and there but nothing to aggressive, just both of them demanding grooming. I have seen them both cave once in a while and groom the other so I think there is hope.

I’m not sure how to handle the headwars, right now I am giving head pets to keep it from escalating. Violet gets angry if it goes on too long, she will thump at him and put her head more forcefully down then sometimes will nip if she gets nothing but if Buns retaliates then its an almost fight. I intervened at that point since I wanted to prevent a fight if I can. Another thing that’s happening is that Buns has started to flop on her when she’s asking for grooming and usually, she ignores it, the first time he did she tried to hump him but for the last 4 days or so she just ignored it and ate some hay or groomed herself. I did try a larger pen (4 by 4) a few days ago and it went about the same as before, no real aggression and mostly ignoring each other, eating and then headwars every so often. Then yesterday Buns did his flop and that seemed to anger Violet as she went after him. We did have a fight but I was the only one who got bit (wearing gloves) and there were no injuries.  I ended with head petting then put them back into the pen with some greens which they both ate and then ended the session. So I hope that was a good enough note.

My questions are: what should I do about the headwars? Is petting them ok for right now? I know I’m supposed to let them work it out and stay out of it but Violet is slow to trust and easy to anger so I want to make being near Buns a good thing. What do I do about the flop? I learned that is a rabbit insult so Buns is not exactly happy with Violet so is there anything I can do to help that or just let it happen and keep Violet calm if I can? I might need to go back to the smaller area for a bit until the headwars go down. I’m trying  not to be too involved but I don’t want anyone hurt and I don’t want anyone to be scared of the other.

I’m just so new at this I want to make sure I’m interpreting what I am seeing correctly and what the next step should be. I am so scared I’m going to mess it up and do the wrong thing.

[Wick & Fable]

For headwars (which I assume is both of them putting their head down and waiting for the other to groom), I think a case-by-case of petting them both and also letting it play out is valuable. If letting it play out every time is leading to big fights, then petting it for now is fine. If it leads to tense interactions but not a full-fight, I’d let it play out so they can work things out.

When not in bonding sessions, are they in separate pens side by side? I’m wondering if more comfort in close proximity/interaction with a pen wall separating for safety might be helpful. In some cases rabbits cannot share a wall because they injure each other through it, so that would need to be monitored.

There is a bonding template here that you can copy and fill out that can also help us give you recommendations: https://binkybunny.com/forums/topic/bonding-template-read-me-for-bonding-help/

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[NetherPixie]

Thank you for the response.

Yes, headwar in as they both put their heads together and just stay there waiting for someone to do something.  I have them in separate rooms as Buns is free roam but I do have a gate across the door so there is some contact when I am able to supervise so a few hours a day usually. Buns has a hate for gates and will rattle them whenever possible ( He did this even before we got Violet).

I have filled out the template below:

Spay/Neuter
Are your bunnies spayed/neutered? Yes
If so, for how long (for each)? Male(Buns) – 3 months and female( Violet) over a year

If not, why not? N/A
Are you aware of reproductive cancer risk in females? If not, please read about it here.

Housing
Please describe your bunnies’ current housing set-up (living together, as neighbors, etc.). Currently they have their own rooms, Buns is free roam and doesn’t do well in a pen. Violet is in the guest room and I have a xpen across the door when I home so they can see and smell each other.

Bonding background
Did you allow the bunnies to “settle-in”? yes, I gave violet about 10 day before we started any bonding. Buns has been a in the house since June.
How would you describe your bunnies reactions towards each other (answer for each bunny): shy, scared, curious, calm, aggressive, excited, affectionate, etc.?

Buns seems curious through the gate and Violet is shy, she hides most of the time.

Have you done any “pre-bonding” (cage or litter box swaps, etc.)? I have done litter box swaps and done a few living area swaps.
If so, for how long? About a week before bonding and I still do it from time to time. Though not a regular basis.
Have you started sessions yet? yes
How long have you been working on bonding your bunnies? About 2 weeks
How frequently do you have bonding sessions, and how long are they? I bond everyday and we were up an hour or two a day.
Have you tried any stressing techniques? No

[Wick & Fable]

Thanks for filling out the template. I’m wondering if you can re-arrange so they live in more proximity to each other, while still being separated. Re: pen/gate rattling, that is very common because the rabbit can see the other side/perceives it should be simple to get to the other side by rattling. This can usually be deterred by covering the gate/pen wall outside with a sheet. Rabbits are a bit like birds in that sense: https://wabbitwiki.com/wiki/Training_FAQ#My_rabbit_keeps_me_up_by_consistently_chewing_his_cage_bars._How_do_I_make_him_stop.3F

I would definitely do pre-bonding measures more on a regular basis, especially if they are not in more proximal living accommodations. Associating each other’s scent and getting used to it is very important, if not the most important thing to establish during bonding.

It’s only been a short time and while slow, there is progress. Keep at it! There are some guidelines outlined here: https://binkybunny.com/infocategory/bonding/

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[NetherPixie]

Thank you, the advice(and the encouragement) it much appreciated. I will step up the pre bonding and just keep at it 🙂

[NetherPixie]

ok, so I have been better at the prebonding swaps and went back to the bath tub for a few days then moved to the bathroom floor since it is neutral and a larger space. I think thing have been a lot better. There has been mutual grooming and they are comfortable eating together, grooming themselves and just exploring the area but now I am not sure how to interpret some things and where to go from here.

Violets behavior has become more comfortable and there is only humping a bit at the beginning when I first put them together for the session. They are still demanding grooming from each other though now more times than not Buns will cave and groom her and the few times he doesn’t Violet will ignore and eat some hay so I think that’s all good. Now for what’s a little confusing to me. Buns for the last two sessions has started humping Violet, He has not done any mounting behavior for 2 weeks, not since the very first bonding sessions.  The session before this one he started grooming her and then would mount her then go back to grooming her. It was short sessions and violet just let him do it. Now in todays session he was more persistent in the humping ( and he pulled some of her fur this time) and it has been going on longer than 10 seconds. Sometimes Violet just takes it and sometimes will retaliate, Run away or nip him. Nothing really bad and nothing has escalated. Then they go back to eating together. No one seems fearful of the other and they still seem comfortable for the most part.

My thought is that they are still just working things out and I just need to keep going but I want to make sure I am interpreting correctly so I can keep going in the right direction. Should I stay where I am at until this behavior subsides? Maybe just up the time they are together, so far I do 2 to 3 hours daily.  I would like to move to the living room since its easier to leave them longer amount of times but it a semi neutral area and I don’t want to move before they are ready.

[DanaNM]

That sounds like great progress! I agree they are continuing to work things out. I would keep increasing the length of sessions as you can, but I don’t think they are quite ready to move to semi-neutral. Maybe you could have them on the bathroom floor as opposed to the tub if that would be more comfortable?

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[NetherPixie]

Thank you very much for the input. I think that is the best idea. I already have them on the floor now and they are doing well so I don’t want to rush it. I can deal with it, its not really that bad.  So we will stay in the bath room for a while longer! They are starting to get really cure with each other 🙂

[DanaNM]

That’s awesome! It really is so wonderful when they start to build their bond!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[NetherPixie]

ok, me again. Things have been going great the last few days, Friday we did about 3 hours and they at happily and did groom each other. There was a little bit of nipping and grooming standoffs but those were resolved with Buns grooming violet then going to eat more hay and Violet doing he same. The only thing that was new was when Violet was running by he would nip a bit at her but nothing else really happened.  Saturday was more of the same, they seemed to be making progress, less of the dominance behaviors and more coexisting peacefully. I’ve been doing my best to stay out of it and most nips are just that, a nip and its over and they resolve it themselves. I have not had to intervene for in any interaction for several days. Sunday they were actually sleeping next to each other and no nipping or mounting at all. That session was almost 4 hours.

Tonight’s session however was not great. They seemed ok, but Violet was grumpy, then about 20 minutes in I think Buns nipped Violet and she was just having it and they kind of went at it. nipping each other and some fur pulling. I separated then and carefully let them come back closer but the nipping continued. I pet them together for a few minutes then tried again but more of the same. I ended up petting them together, gave them a treat to eat together then called it. I didn’t want this to escalate into a fight.

Is this normal? I’m thinking violet was just in a bad mood tonight and neither one them seemed out for blood so I’m hoping it was just a tiff. It was mostly nipping, I got pinched pretty good but it wasn’t actual biting. Worst was some tufts of hair were lost. I’m hoping it was just a bad night and things will still move forward. should I continue as is or should I think about changing something. I still have them on the bathroom floor and its been the same set up its been for  over a week. I haven’t changed anything. I feel a bit discouraged and hope I’m not doing something wrong.

 

[DanaNM]

Some ups and downs are normal, and it often seems like it’s two steps forward one step back. Maybe before the next session, try cleaning the bathroom really well so it smells a little more neutral, and see if the next session is better. If not, then you might try a new location, or add an element of stressing before the session. So you could pop them both in a carrier and walk around the block or go for a short drive (have someone else drive so you can monitor them), then put them in the bonding area.

It could be just as you said though, that they were just feeling grumpy that day!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[NetherPixie]

Alright, Buns are very confusing, lol.  Thank you for the advice, I did clean everything thoroughly but left the location the same, same time and everything to see what would happen. They were little angles. No nipping, no mounting or anything that would be bad. They ate their hay together, flopped and explored. With some grooming standoffs but nothing escalated and we even had mutual grooming at the end.

So I’m going to chalk it up to a bad day and continue on.

 

Thank you again for the help!

[DanaNM]

haha! They certainly can be confusing little creatures. Rabbits can be very smell oriented, so perhaps something just smelled weird that day. Glad to hear they are back on track!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[NetherPixie]

So its been a while but we are at a point where I am in the home stretch, at lest I hope. I had a bit of a set back on Thanksgiving weekend to rushing it and my boy got territorial over the space and was keeping Violet away from everything(litter box mainly) and she was hiding from him so I separated and went back a few steps. I went back to the bathroom for about a week and half(after a few days break) but this time I started swapping rooms for them and that helped a lot. I guess the smells mingled enough and when I tried them together for a play date it very smooth.

I have been doing this now for about 2 weeks and they are sharing everything well, litter box, toys, blankets, food. They cuddle and there have been no fights or territorial behavior.. They groom each other and flop all over the place. The only issue is every once in a while, like every three to 4 days by boy gets a bee in his bonnet and starts to hump violet, she runs and he chases. It doesn’t seem to escalate but I do stop it before the chasing gets too much. He eventually stops and they go back to being fine. They still have a bit of grooming war but usually Buns will cave quickly  and groom her and Violet has started to groom him more often now. They seem like they are close to bonded and this weekend I have time off for the holiday and want to try some overnights again.

I just wanted to see if this was still on the right track or am I missing something or are they still alright and just more time. Is there anything else I should look for? I feel like I am missing something but that may be inexpedience.

[DanaNM]

It sounds like they are doing great! Good job!

As long as the chasing is him trying to mount (his ears forwards, not pinned back)I would observe the mounting attempts and chasing, and see what happens if you don’t intervene (especially during your longer sessions). Of course intervene if it starts to turn to circling. Mounting is pretty normal in bonded pairs, and as long as it doesn’t lead to a scuffle it’s OK and normal. You may see it start to calm down during the longer sessions too.

In on of my pairs, Bun Jovi will try to mount Myra pretty regularly. He will chase her around for a bit (ears forward), and then eventually he gives up and they cuddle. In their pen, I have a hide that she will sit on top of to escape from him when she’s had enough (he’s old and sort of blind, so it’s pretty funny to watch him run around honking looking for her).

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[NetherPixie]

Aww, poor guy. That’s cute though.  It’s a little hard to tell where his ears are since he’s a lop but they look forward to me and he’s buzzing most of the time so after hearing this I don’t think it was aggressive.

After this I tried to take the advice and just see what happens but it really hasn’t happened again, he tried once more the day after and she ran off and he seemed like it was too much trouble to chase her and that hay was a better idea…so they at together instead.  Then that night he seemed so sad to be put back into his room alone I decided to go ahead with the marathon and now its been 5 days they have been together with no shenanigans so I think I’m really close. They are eating happily together and cuddle a lot. She’s even grooming him a lot more than she ever did.

I want to say thank you for all the advice, It was a huge help for someone who had no idea what they were doing. Now I have very happy buns that are learning to gang up on me for treats….

They seem to be working on synchronized loafing right now:

[DanaNM]

That’s really wonderful! They look great together!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

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