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FORUM HOUSE RABBIT Q & A ACK! Moose suddenly doing poorly *Sad Update*

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    • DanaNM
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        I’m currently not the with bunnies, my husband is with them at his parents house, and he woke up to Moose sitting hunched in his box, not rushing over to eat his veggies. 

        It’s so strange… I woke up with a worried feeling about them…

        He gave him critical care (which he ate with gusto off a plate… so that’s good), and hand fed him dandelions, which he ate when they were put in front of him. He would also eat pellets if hand-fed. 

        He gave him pain meds (Metacam) that we had left from his last dental, and just went to the store to get simthicone. We had some but it somehow got lost in the evacuation….

        He’s been keeping him moving, giving him critical care periodically, and encouraging some movement. He says he’s doing better than when he woke up, but def not 100%. 

        He is pooping, and my husband is monitoring closely. He said his tummy felt like it might be a bit gassy.

        Right now he is on the way to the pharmacy to get gas drops. Next plan will be to see if those help and take his temperature…

        Then we’ll make the call as to whether we should go to the emergency clinic. Right now he eats his CC hungrily, is pooping OK, and his ears don’t feel cold, so I think he is stable for now…. but I am SO WORRIED and I wish I was there…. 

        This is so out of the blue, we can’t ID anything in his diet that was new, and they’ve been at his parents’ house for about 2 weeks now, so it wasn’t a sudden change.  

        We need to decide whether to go the emergency clinic route, go to a different vet tomorrow in San Diego, or just drive straight back to Santa Barbara to see out regular vet. I worry about making that drive with a bunny that is doing poorly…. but I also trust our vet 100% and if he does need a dental I want them to do it….

        . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


      • Bam
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          I’m sorry Moose is poorly and it must be very frustrating to be away from him. It seems your husband is doing an excellent job though. Hopefully the simethicone will help further. Sometimes a bun gets gassy “for no reason”, and it can be resolved with simethicone. It’s when it happens frequently or if it doesn’t go away that you need to look for an underlying cause. Like teeth or sth in the diet that doesn’t agree with him -well, I know you know all that.

          Since he’s eating, drinking and pooping and he isn’t cold or lethargic, chances are good the baby gas drops will help. It doesn’t really sound like a case for an ER vet at this point, imho. You have to weigh the stress of a trip to the vet against the severity of his symptoms (you know that too of course). Try giving one ml simethicone, wait 1 hour and give him 0.5 to 1 ml, same after yet another hour. By then you should see improvement. Sometimes the bun even farts audibly Sometimes there’s a little splurt of semi-liquid cecotropes.
          ((((Moose))))


        • DanaNM
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            Thank you Bam! Yes, he is doing a great job, he’s just as invested in our little floof-babies as I am (he just doesn’t spend far too much time on this forum like I do!). 

            He should be giving the simethicone soon… so hopefully we’ll have a positive update in an hour or two. If Moose stops wanting his critical care though, that is going to put me in full alarm mode!  I’m thankful that he loves it like a treat (imagine a kid licking a cake batter bowl), so it’s a good metric for how he is doing. 

            . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


          • Luna
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              Agreed, sounds like your husband is definitely on top of it! It sounds more like gas than dental related since he has eaten his dandelion and pellets, and also with the improvement seen after your husband was able to get him moving around. If you can’t think of anything new in his diet, could the gas have been caused by swallowing air (ie. drinking/eating too fast)? It’s the only thing I can think of, but I’m not even sure if that happens with buns?


            • DanaNM
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                Thank you! He just gave him the simethicone about 30 min ago… so fingers crossed he perks up even more. He said he ate the CC (mixed with the simethicone) no problem.

                Not sure if bunnies can get gas from swallowing air, but I wouldn’t be surprised if that happened to Moose… he usually wolfs down his food SO FAST… hence the major alarm bells when he didn’t rush over to the veggie pile this morning.

                He also just sent me poop pics and they look pretty good. I would grade them B+ (which is about as good as Moose’s get), and he said they were B-/C+ this morning).

                Hoping the simethicone clears things up soon!

                . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


              • DanaNM
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                  Hubby just gave him round 2 of simethicone, I guess he was sitting like a lump, but heard the CC being mixed up and ran up to the pen edge and was standing up on his hind legs (like he usually does for food), so I’ll take that as a good sign!

                  . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


                • DanaNM
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                    Well, things are up and down I guess. They took his temp and got 101.4 and 103.4, so prob around 102, which sounds OK to me.

                    For the third round of simethicone + CC, he only ate about half of it, hopped around a bit, ran through his willow tunnel, then back into his box. Maybe a few poops… I wonder if maybe he tasted the simethicone in that dose and didn’t want it?

                    He’s going to try actually syringing it and giving him a tummy rub in about 30 min.

                    . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


                  • Luna
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                      Moving, eating, and pooping are good signs. Though I agree it must be suspenseful with all the up and down. Hopefully the tummy rub helps.


                    • TomBell
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                        Hi All, 

                        This is the husband. Happy to report that after a tummy rub, 0.5mL simethicone (not in CC), and some rest, Moose just passed around 20 good looking poops.

                        Tom


                      • DanaNM
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                          About 1.5 hrs ago he got 0.5ml of straight simethicone (syringed) and a good tummy rub. Right before his meds my husband said he was in his “lounge position”.

                          Around 7 pm he “laid a pile of B+/A- poops, about 20+”…. “and pee”

                          Wasn’t super interested in dandelions, or parsley, but ate some basil eventually. He’s running around digging in paper and the fleece blankets. He will still take a pellet if offered (but we are holding off on giving him his pellet ration to make sure he stays hydrated and encourage hay eating… for right now).

                          Apparently his poops look better than this morning. I wish his appetite was better, but he did eat a lot of CC today… maybe he’s full? In my experience Moose is never full though….

                          I think the over all trend is better or at least not worse… My husband mentioned his dad was making a ton of noise doing dishes (and just makes a lot of noise in general… his hearing isn’t great so I don’t think he realizes how loud he is), so maybe that is scaring him? Moose is pretty sensitive to noises and can spook easily, but I guess things were quieting down.

                          Ugh. I think the way he is now is good enough to wait till the morning to call the vet. If he’s not improved, then the question is to drive back home with him (about 5 hours), or to see a unfamiliar vet in San Diego…

                          . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


                        • sarahthegemini
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                            Oh Moose, do stop worrying your parents! How is he now, DanaNM? 


                          • DanaNM
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                              Happy to report he’s back to normal this morning!

                              What a brat, scaring us like that!

                              Tom is the real winner, I think he must be a tummy rub master

                              . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


                            • sarahthegemini
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                                Oh Moose you rascal! Glad you’re back to normal!


                              • Q8bunny
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                                  Moose! You made your Da join BB just to post an update! You wascally wabbit!


                                • DanaNM
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                                    Well, unfortunately Moose is doing poorly again. As of Friday, his hay consumption slowed way down, so I made an appointment for a dental for him.

                                    We’ve been giving him critical care, and until today he was still eating veggies and pellets normally. But now he is looking very uncomfortable (squinting, sitting with head slightly cocked), and will not eat his veggies (haven’t tried pellets yet). He did eat a good portion of critical care on his own (but slowly…), and is pooping (thank goodness). We’ve been giving him metacam since Friday, and I just gave him some simethicone and a belly rub just to cover our bases.

                                    He’s moving around a bit, drinking water (which has been a symptom his teeth hurt in the past), but this is probably the most uncomfortable I’ve seen him (aside from his gas episode.. which I now suspect was brought on by reduced hay consumption if his teeth were starting to bother him). He’s also started this new behavior, where instead of just drinking from the bowl, he dips his paws in and then licks the water off his paws….it must be related somehow but it is strange.

                                    Poor guy, this sucks with the holiday tomorrow. I know our vet will try to see him ASAP since it seems like he’s taken a sharp decline, but tomorrow is a holiday, and I don’t know what else I can do to help him until then….

                                    If he stops eating the critical care on his own, not sure if I should force feed him? Always paranoid about a blockage, but he is pooping (and they look OK so long as he gets enough CC)…. so idk.

                                    I’ve never seen him snub veggies, so this is really scary.

                                    Part of me wants to give him a Penicillin injection in case he as a tooth infection … but I don’t want to do that without consulting the vet, in case there is something else going on.

                                    Any thoughts or vibes appreciated….

                                    . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


                                  • Q8bunny
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                                      Definitely syringe feed him CC if he stops nomming. It’s good that you can get him to his vet soon, though. It seems like holidays and long weekends are bun faves for being poorly. ((((((Moose))))))


                                    • DanaNM
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                                        He’s completely stopped wanting pellets and critical care, so I just syringe fed him about 2 tbsp of CC (mixed). Planning to syringe feed him again in about 4 hours. He’s still pooping OK, considering he’s only been eating critical care. Might try mixing in some banana, but don’t want to mess up his gut with too much sugar….

                                        I gave him a 1/2 dose of metacam, since he had his full dose in the morning, and the vet usually has him on a 24 hr dose.

                                        This is terrifying and heartbreaking to see him like this… he’s hurting so much. I wish there was something else we could be doing for him… so any suggestions welcome.

                                        . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


                                      • DanaNM
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                                          I can’t believe I’m writing this, but Moose passed away this morning around 6:30 am. We are heartbroken and in disbelief.

                                          I woke up around 6 am to check on him and syringe feed him again, and actually woke up to the sound of him moving around a lot, which I thought was an improvement. But instead I realized he moving around because he was very agitated, was gasping for air (making a rattling sound that at first I thought was a frog outside), and one of his eyes was basically bulging from his head.

                                          We decided we needed to do something, so we were going to give him a penicillin shot and another dose of metacam, in case he had some infection that was progressing rapidly. When I went to pick him up to give him the shot, he bolted away from me, and then had what looked to be a heart attack.

                                          We were so blindsided by this… and have no idea what could have caused such a rapid onset. And so angry that the closest ER that see’s rabbits is over an hour away (and we know that he would not have survived the car ride in his condition). We feel like we failed him. He was in so much pain…

                                          We are so sorry Moose.

                                          . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


                                        • Bam
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                                            I’m so, so sorry to read this.

                                            Something really bad must’ve been going on with him not “just” a GI slowdown. Something like heart disease or septic shock, something he couldn’t have recovered from.

                                            You absolutely didn’t fail him. It’s horrible to see an animal in pain though, so I understand how you must be so very upset as well as grieving. At least he is at rest now.

                                            Binky free, darling ****Moose****


                                          • sarahthegemini
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                                              I have no words Dana, I cannot believe it, I am so sorry  


                                            • ThorBunny
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                                                Oh Dana, I’m so terribly sorry to hear this.

                                                You didn’t fail him, you guys sound like the most attentive and caring bun parents there are. He was lucky to have found a home with you. (((hugs to you)))

                                                Binky free sweet Moose.


                                              • Luna
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                                                  I’m so sorry Dana . I couldn’t believe it when I read this; he had bounced back to normal and then this was so sudden. He was lucky to have you guys, and he knows you both love him.

                                                  Binky free Moose


                                                • Rain
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                                                    You guys were absolutely wonderful parents to him. You did not fail him. You did everything you possibly could until the end. And it was so sudden too, you couldn’t have known that would have happened. You were the best part of his life.
                                                    Binky free Moose.


                                                  • tobyluv
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                                                      I’m very sorry about the loss of your sweet Moose. You did everything right to care for him. As has already been said, he obviously had something else wrong with him, besides the GI problems. He knew that you loved him and that you were doing everything possible to help him.


                                                    • Q8bunny
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                                                        Oh, Dana, I’m so sorry… it couldn’t have been only gastric distress if poor Moose took such a sudden and awful turn. You guys sound like good and loving parents, who did all they could given the circumstances… but it’s understandibly heartbraking that poor Moose’s last moments were so upsetting. Like others have said, at least he is no longer in pain now. Please don’t think you failed him… he must have known how loved he was. (((Binky free, sweet Moose)))


                                                      • Vienna Blue in France
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                                                          Oh Dana, i missed this thread and Iam so very sorry to hear about Moose. After all you have been through with them both. It’s so so sad.
                                                          I don’t know what else to say except you are brilliant bunny parents and you didnt do anything wrong.
                                                          As bam says, it sounds as if something else was going on with Moose. Nothing that you could have known about.

                                                          He is at peace now. Now over to you to check you are ok…

                                                          ((( Hugs )))


                                                        • Deleted User
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                                                            Oh no!!!!! So sad!! You did everything that you could have, don’t blame yourself. I know that is a lot easier said than done.

                                                            ((hugs)) to you, I’m so sorry!

                                                            Noseboops to Bertha, its hard to lose her friend

                                                            Binky free, Moose <3 <3


                                                          • Sirius&Luna
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                                                              I’m so sorry its so tragic.

                                                              You are clearly an amazing bunny parent, and you gave him a wonderful happy life. I hope in time that can console you.

                                                              Binky free Moose


                                                            • DanaNM
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                                                                Thank you everyone for the kind words. On New Years Eve we were starting to realize he must have probably had much more serious going on than a bad tooth… so it’s good to hear that suspicion confirmed. He was just so young to have so many problems, barely a year. 

                                                                I was thinking back about his time with us, and even at his healthiest, he never binkied, and I only ever saw him “mega flop” once, so I wonder if he was always living with some sort of pain.

                                                                We still haven’t told anyone except you guys… but now I need to call and cancel his vet appointment.

                                                                Bertha is doing OK. She groomed him intensely in the hours before he passed, and had a burst of energy minutes before he passed, which is exactly what she did with Bunston…. I am sure she knew what was going to happen long before we did. She laid with him for several hours after. I am so sad for her to loose another partner…unfortunately she is no stranger to loss. We have been giving her lots of snuggles, and I am thankful that my husband often works from home, so she won’t be completely alone very much. 

                                                                . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


                                                              • sarahthegemini
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                                                                  Poor Bertha I feel so sad for her. I hope she is able to grieve and find comfort from you and your hubby. Of course I hope Bertha can comfort you two as well. My heart breaks for you all, it really does. I know Moose was too young to pass but at least he is out of pain now and away from his health issues. He’s probably munching on carrots up there with a happy little bunny grin xxx


                                                                • Dface
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                                                                    Oh my god Dana I am so so sorry to be reading this! Please take solace in how great a life you gave to Moose!
                                                                    You gave him a wonderful home, beyond nearly anything that is expected for the majority of rabbits, he totally landed on his paws when he met you guys! And he had time with a loving companion; which is a truly fulfilling experience that not every bunny will know. His life was blessed from the minute he bounced through your doors.

                                                                    I honestly cant imagine the current stress you are going through, it really doesnt seem that long ago that you were celebrating their bond. Glad to hear that you all have each other to help through this


                                                                  • LittlePuffyTail
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                                                                      I’m so very sorry……My heart is very sad for you and Bertha. Moose was so lucky to have you.

                                                                      (((((Binky Free Moose)))))


                                                                    • Muchelle
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                                                                        I’m so sorry Please don’t think poorly of yourselves, you both did an awesome job and loved him dearly. We’ll be all the way with you when and if you’ll want to vent or talk. Lots of rubs for Bertha <3


                                                                      • Dee
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                                                                          I’m so sorry, Dana- what an awful shock. You and your husband did everything you could- I can tell you are wonderful bunny parents and Moose had a wonderful life with you. I know the timing caused you extra stress because of the difficulty in getting to the vet, but I honestly think that even staying at a vet would not have made a difference to the outcome. I agree that there must have been something undetectable and very serious going on. I’m sure that being with his humans and Bertha during that time was the very best thing for Moose. Again, I’m so very sorry.
                                                                          {{{Binky free, Moose}}}


                                                                        • DanaNM
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                                                                            Thanks again everyone for your support and kind words. 

                                                                            Our vet offered to do a necropsy, and we opted to do it. Hopefully it will give us some answers or at least rule some things out. 

                                                                            . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


                                                                          • Vienna Blue in France
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                                                                              (((( big hugs again )))) and as many as you need. (((()))) ((()))) (((())))


                                                                            • joea64
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                                                                                Just caught up with this and so sorry to hear about poor Moose. You did everything you could for him, never regret that. He’s all right now at the Bridge with Bunston, it’s Bertha who really needs you now.


                                                                              • meridiian
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                                                                                  I’m sorry you lost young Moose – and after such effort and love from both of you. This is so sad.

                                                                                  I hope you know you did all you could. I’m sure Moose knew that too.

                                                                                  RIP Moose and Binky Free!

                                                                                  I’m so sorry.


                                                                                • GarfyTheLop
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                                                                                    So sorry to hear the loss of Moose xxxx


                                                                                  • DanaNM
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                                                                                      Thanks again everyone for the kind words. I am so grateful for this community. <3

                                                                                      Heard back from the vet on the necropsy, and it was basically inconclusive, but were able to rule out some things. No blockage, no twisted gut, no obvious tumors or masses, no fluid in his chest. She wasn’t able to get a great look at his teeth, but she didn’t feel or see anything major going on there either.

                                                                                      So, possibly a heart condition? She also said possibly sepsis from an infection…? I was also reading up on bone cancer in rabbits, which I guess usually occurs in the jaw and metasticises rapidly… and would possibly explain why his teeth had so many issues without obvious misalignment…but that’s a wild guess at this point.

                                                                                      So we don’t have firm answers, but the vet did agree that it was likely something very serious, and obviously difficult to detect (as he had been to the vet fairly regularly over the last few months).

                                                                                      . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


                                                                                    • Vienna Blue in France
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                                                                                        Im giving my five an extra big hug each for Moose and Bertha.
                                                                                        (((( hug ))))


                                                                                      • LittlePuffyTail
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                                                                                          I’m sorry you were unable to get an answer. But perhaps, it’s really better not knowing. Then you don’t have to deal with “what ifs”.

                                                                                          ((((Hugs))))


                                                                                        • jerseygirl
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                                                                                            Dana, I have been so behind on the threads here and I wasn’t aware you had lost Moose. I am so so sorry.  You had been through so much with him. ***Binky Free Moose***

                                                                                            Sending (((hugs))) for you and much love for Bertha too. 


                                                                                          • DanaNM
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                                                                                              Thank you all again, we’ve been giving Bertha all the snuggles. She’s doing OK…Thankfully we’ve been able to spend a lot of time at home with her.

                                                                                              ***accepts all the hugs***

                                                                                              . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


                                                                                            • toki
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                                                                                                Just leaving my condolences (and hugs)  So sorry you lost your beautiful baby. Binky free in bunny heaven Moose ♥


                                                                                              • sarahthegemini
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                                                                                                  More hugs to you, your hubby and Bertha. I’m glad she’s doing okay. Give her a cuddle from me and my two terrors xxx

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                                                                                              FORUM HOUSE RABBIT Q & A ACK! Moose suddenly doing poorly *Sad Update*