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Forum DIET & CARE Need help with potty training and enrichment

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    • Buttercup Buns
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        Hello! So, first of all, you can read this story to understand my questions better:

        I have two rabbits. Hope and Patches.

        Hope was bought from a professional breeder (details omitted by Wick) though I sort of reccomend adopting a rabbit from a rescue shelter. There are so many rabbits out there that need help. Either one is okay, just make sure you are not buying a rabbit from an item website or something.

        Hope is currently 8 months old, and Patches is 4-5 months old. They both eat timothy grass hay for most of the day, and they usually get grass pellets or timothy pellets.

        Hope used to have many different kinds of pens because she always escaped from at least one of them several times a day, so we got Hope and Patches a huge mush chicken pen. No chickens were in it to begin with, don’t worry. They even have their own hutch that they can sleep in at sleeping hours, but they usually not locked in there unless somebody is vacum cleaning or somebody is cleaning a mega clean with their pen. They haven’t escaped from the mush pen ever since exept if we open the door they sometimes bolt out, or, I have to admit, sometimes I forget to close the pen door, and one time when Hope escaped, I tried to put her back in her pen but I dropped her from a sort-of-low height. She didn’t get hurt or anything, she was just scared but mostly mad at me. She tried to bite me and grunted at me, but she forgave me a few hours later. She still loves me nowadays because she shows the most affection she can for me.

        So the pen that they’re living in right now is very large, bigger than two average bathrooms combined. I’m still trying to free-roam them but I don’t think I can anytime soon. Patches isin’t potty trained yet, and when I try to potty train her it doesen’t work, so there is bunny poop all over the pen.

        Any tips on potty training and enriching the pen?

        (edited by Wick)

         


      • Wick & Fable
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          Since this is a house rabbit pet forum which encourages rescue and discourages breeding (and the topic of intentional breeding is prohibited), I have omitted some content from your topic for its approval.

          Please see here for tips on litter training: https://binkybunny.com/infocategory/litterbox-training/
          Note that litterbox training intact (i.e., not spayed/neutered) rabbits can be a losing battle, as their hormones are incompatible with what we conceptualize as “litter trained” most of the time. Also, realistic litterbox adherence expectations mainly center on peeing in the box — pooping is common outside of litterboxes due to rabbits’ nature.

          For enrichment ideas, see here: https://wabbitwiki.com/wiki/Toys_and_games

          Also, be aware that if they are being kept together and of the opposite sex, they must be separated immediately to prevent pregnancy. If breeding is your intention, this is not an appropriate forum for you. Additionally, they likely have what is called a “baby bond”, which is a bond which seems very secure and stable, but in actuality may dissolve very soon once one of them begin acting hormonally. For these reasons, separation now is recommended until both are spayed/neutered, 1mo post-recovery, and then you can begin the recommended rabbit bonding process: https://binkybunny.com/infocategory/bonding/

          The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.


        • Buttercup Buns
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            We are getting Hope spayed in a week or two. I am sorry I mentioned breeding. Hope and Patches are both females.


          • Wick & Fable
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              Their litter habits will be greatly improved upon 1) Hope getting spayed and 2) once they are both properly bonded. As of now, you likely have two rabbits territorially marking in response to each other/hormones (the presence of a rabbit not formally bonded to another/an intact rabbit can facilitate hormonal behaviors in an already fixed rabbit).

              The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.


            • Buttercup Buns
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                Okay. Thank you for giving me helpful information.


              • DanaNM
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                  I agree with Wick that spaying will help a ton with litter training.

                  Do keep a close eye on them (look for fur clumps pulled or other evidence of fighting) to make sure they don’t start fighting as Patches starts to mature more. Pre-puberty rabbits will often get along, but then hormone changes will trigger fighting. If they do fight seriously, it can make it a lot harder to bond them, so many people recommend separating until spaying, especially if you can’t get them spayed right at 4 months. There are also some hormonal changes for a few weeks after spaying that can cause issues.

                  In terms of enrichment in their pens, can you give them some temporary access to a larger  bunny proofed area for part of the day to get extra exercise? Perhaps a tall puppy x-pen hooked up to their main pen?

                  Other “boredom buster’ toy ideas are toilet paper tubes stuffed with hay, willow twigs, phone books for shredding, paper or grass mats, cardboard box hides for “redecorating”, and organic palm plates. 🙂

                  . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


                • Buttercup Buns
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                    Thank you!

                    Hope and Patches do not fight seriously, they do groom eachother sometimes and rest together. Hope nips Patches a lot and chases her but nobody gets hurt. Is there something I can do about the nipping?

                    Also, thank you so much for the boredom buster ideas. I will try them, I’ll see if they like the enrichment.

                    I agree that Patches shouldn’t get spayed yet but I’m not sure if I can separate them. They bonded quite a lot, though Hope is bossy most of the time. I will keep an eye on them, but do you have any more suggestions with better bonding besides separating them?


                  • DanaNM
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                      The nipping and chasing is a sign that things are starting to get tense between them. Personally, I would separate them and keep them side by side. Currently they have a “baby bond”, which could very likely break once Patches’ hormones fully kick in. The only thing you can really do to help their bond is get them both spayed. The chances of an easier re-bonding are higher if you separate before a bad fight occurs. Things can really turn bad in a flash, and if you aren’t there supervising all the time they could get seriously injured.

                      This might sound overly cautious, but we have so many people come on the forum asking for help because their rabbits that had been together since they were young suddenly started fighting.

                      . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


                    • Buttercup Buns
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                        I supervise them 10-35 minutes a day, but nowadays I’m trying to spend more time with them, because I don’t see them for most of the day.

                        Thank you so much for informing me about the fighting. I will try to spay them before they grow into adults and start seriously fighting.


                      • DanaNM
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                          Gotcha. Yeah, if they are spending most of the day alone then I would definitely recommend separating them. I know it’s a huge pain, but I know of more than a few members whose buns fought so badly they weren’t able to rebond them later. 🙁

                          . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


                        • Buttercup Buns
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                            Okay, thank you, I’ll try.


                          • Buttercup Buns
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                              Is it okay if I separate them a day or two after Christmas? Because my family ordered them some treats and toys for Christmas presents and I want them to open their presents together.


                            • DanaNM
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                                I can’t really say or predict that. I would hate to say “sure why not”, and then have them fight on Christmas Eve.

                                . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


                              • Buttercup Buns
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                                  I will spend more time with them today, tomorrow, on Christmas Eve, and definitely on Christmas and see how things go. If they get really aggresive and seem like they are fighting more than usual, then I would think of seperating them. But if they don’t fight on those days, I think I would seperate them a day or two after Christmas, just in case.


                                • Wick & Fable
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                                    You are playing with “fire” by allowing them to interact when they are not bonded — they could get territorial/possessive over the presents and a potentially “cute” event could turn into a fight with injuries. It would be safer to split the presents and present them to each separately.

                                    The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.


                                  • Buttercup Buns
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                                      I’m not sure what I might do, I probably would try to separate them on Christmas day with a see-through clear plastic panel so they can at least see eachother when they are opening their presents. I might not do this, but instead if I see the slightest sign of aggression then I would separate them immediately. Either way, I will completely separate them a day or two after Christmas until they both get spayed.


                                    • Buttercup Buns
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                                        They are bonded, sorry I didn’t mention that. This morning they were cuddling together.


                                      • DanaNM
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                                          Since Patches is still very young, and both are unspayed, whatever bond they have is known as a “baby bond”, rather than a true bond, and can be very unstable. Adult rabbits tend to get a long with babies (pre-puberty), as they don’t see them as a threat. The chasing and nipping you are seeing is a sign that it is becoming even less stable.

                                          Again it’s your decision, we can only advise on what we would do in your situation.

                                          . . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  


                                        • Buttercup Buns
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                                            If they start fighting seriously, I may consider separating them. On the other hand, I don’t anyone to get hurt…

                                            If I see any small signs off aggression besides nipping and chasing, I will separate them immediately.


                                          • GlennTheLionhead
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                                              Regarding the Christmas thing, for my unbonded pair they groom each other and cuddle but at the end of the day they aren’t bonded so I have given them a stocking each and wrapped presents each and will just have them open them separately.

                                              I don’t think your bunnies will like their presents any more because they’ve opened them together. Opening presents together can be a special thing for us humans but I don’t think our bunnies feel the same way. I think it can be just as exciting for them to open them individually with you 🙂


                                            • Buttercup Buns
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                                                Thank you!

                                                I probably would separate them on Christmas with a see-through plastic panel, so they can at least see eachother when they are opening their presents 🙂 Or the day after Christmas if I’m too busy getting ready for the holidays, I’m not quite sure yet.

                                                Thank each and every one of you so much!

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                                            Forum DIET & CARE Need help with potty training and enrichment