Hi

Thank you so much for responding. 💕

There have been several stand offs where my daughters  (whose bunnies they are ) will watch and it usually involves the dominant bunny hopping off or falling asleep as in the picture. (Or the submissive will dart off at any slight movement.)

I know I am more anxious watching them – we take it in turns to watch them during these longer sessions. I am planning to have some overnight sessions soon- but want to be sure they are ready so I don’t stress or agitate them.

I really hope they become good friends. We do not have the space for them to be separate indefinitely.
They definitely flop and binky a lot when in the x pen – just not together 😊

Thank you so much.

We will try the longer sessions and I will update.
In the separated X Pens, the timid bunny has a cardboard hidey hole which he uses a lot.
we don’t use it in the bonding sessions because he hides, and because I didn’t want to have any situation where he was cornered. (Although there are two exits) Also the dominant bunny is an excellent jumper and uses it to try and escape the pen!
We also have not introduced the litter box -similar to the large cat tray they have in their pens.  Instead I have used a very large plastic tray with bedding and hay with more that enough room for two, so this is something I will have to introduce later. I am planning on buying a large higher sided one – as my dominant bunny likes to hang his butt over the edge to pee!
Our dominant bunny is very very excited about food especially veggies and treats. It is for this reason I have not introduced pellets as I am worried he will eat them all once they are hopefully living together. The submissive bunny is not as interested in veggies and fruit and will munch on hay even when other options are available.  (Both on own and during sessions)

Thank you so much for your response.

This process has been long and although I am being cautious not to rush it – I really hope they get over this last hump soon and can move in to their new home together. 💜🐰

Hi

in response to the power play- do you think the submissive rabbit is deliberately lowering head in response to being groomed as a way to try to be dominant? He lies absolutely flat the the ground and freezes. If the other bun backs away he relaxes like a loaf and reverts to flat if he tries to lower head for a groom again?

the submissive will go over and groom the bunny we feel is more dominant – but only when he is flopped and asleep and that can sometimes startle him.
Milo (submissive) also used to lie like that if the other rabbit came near or would just dart away.

My worry is as the timid rabbit becomes more confident he may wish to be dominant and my other bunny won’t like that at all! ☺️

Hi

Thank you so much for your response.

I agree – i think it may be – not necessarily a dominant behavior but definitely Milo seems as though he is not willing to be submissive! (Which is strange as he is so skittish around Louie )

Today the bunnies spent 7 hours together – with no issues apart from one stand off nose to nose that led to Louie (presumed dominant) chasing briefly. They both flopped and binkied – although usually away from each other.
No issues with drinking and eating – they do this very close almost nose to nose.
milo groomed Louie when flopped again and Louie will go over to Milo when he is stretched out and flip next to him- but Milo seems too apprehensive still around Louie.

I am unable to give them the 24/7 time and dedication for the next two weeks and so I was hoping that doing the long sessions in the day and putting them back to their parallel pens at night isn’t doing any harm to their bonding progress.
when we start each day they just act as if they have been together the whole time – but they do not snuggle or act bonded- (yet! 🤞😉)

hopefully they can continue to cement the bond over the next few weeks.

(the only brief chase they had was the one time I was watching them on my own- so do you think that my anxiety could be an issue – they usually only have them when I am there alone. )

thank you again for your responses- they made me feel I was making progress which helped me feel more positive about the process.

Hi

We put the bunnies together today and Louie (dominant – we think) keeps going up to Milo and nipping him on the butt. This has happened several times in last hour which is unusual. Milo is a little on edge now. What could have changed? Milo is pretty much completely flat to the ground now again whenever Louie is near.

They are still eating together, louie just seems to be in a bit of a mood today- (lively and less passive -not grumpy)

This hasn’t really happened in the last month of sessions I am not sure why today 😩

Hi

we just had another good long session- we tend to do the day time because that is when we have the time to be with them – but hoping to do a longer one – in to evening tomorrow.
Today I was so amused by Louie’s behaviour. He zoomed and jumped and span and flipped all over the pen for about 5 minutes- I have seen them both binky before but nothing like this. At one point I was worried if he was ok! He flops constantly and will just go up and flip on top of Milo and just seems happy. Milo also seems happy – although still skittish he has started to go up to Louie cautiously and likes to put his nose near his tummy or butt. Is this normal? Louie doesn’t react but we are very cautious about this – steering him away or ready to intercept in case it leads to a scuffle but it doesn’t seem aggressive more curious.

Louie is constantly asking to be groomed though- he puts his head down and tries to nudge Milo’s head up.
milo is just flat to the floor – whole body – whereas Louie just has his head lowered.
I am worried this is going to lead to some issues. Louie groomed him today and after each stand off went to load position before hopping off.  It seems obvious who is dominant and milo always seems on high alert when louie is near.  I think Milo still needs to build trust in the relationship.

I read the post you made on your two bunnies as a cautionary tale and I am quite nervous as it sounds very much like my bunnies situation.
I am not sure what to do as the parallel pens can only be temporary. It has been like this for  3 months now and I really hoped they could be sharing a space in the next month.
I do not feel comfortable leaving them unsupervised- although apart from a little chasing – which is an occasional nip and 2 second lop after milo there has been nothing but they do t snuggle or groom either. Definitely more roommates than true love.
I do feel they have bonded enough that they would miss each other if we stopped.

when we go to pick Louie up to return him to his pen he now runs over to Milo and snuggles.

I think it is going in the right direction but I am worried that they may fight after a few months now as your bunnies did?

Aww thank you sweetpotato.

After 9.5 hours together today- almost but still not quite! 😜 bonding bunnies is something I had never heard of 4 months ago and now it is all I seem to think about.
hopefully they will get there.
Your bunny looks adorable too!

Hi

Me again 😀

so we are still doing the play dates – long sessions up to 10 hours ( and some days shorter depending on time- but always at least 2 hours) they are happy together but not together – I had extended the pen size to a room and they loved the extra space doing binkies and zoomies but staying apart. Sleeping apart.

There was no cuddling or grooming at all – ignoring each other unless eating (and Louie will take fresh greens from Milo’s mouth!)

Today i made the pen small as I wanted to see if they would interact more. They did. Milo went to a corner to sleep and Louie came over to him and lay alongside – (but they lie nose to tail. )

louie groomed Milo for quite a while – on his body though not head. I wasn’t sure if he was nipping at first but Milo seemed fine- (lay completely flat on floor – in the position he usually is around Louie but I don’t think he is scared or he would have run away)

My question is – I am pretty sure Louie is the dominant – although Milo refuses to groom and bows his head very low when Louie approaches.  All the information I have read said only the submissive mainly grooms.
could I have been wrong all this time? Apart from the refusal to groom I haven’t seen any other behavior that makes me think Milo is in charge.

thank you so much for all your advice – we are moving in to the overnight non stop sessions and hopefully in to their new homes soon.
(Although I have not left them unattended yet I feel a little more confident) we supervise from outside the pen.

thank you again

DanaNm thank you so much for all your advice. It means a lot!
I really appreciate the replies.
I am beginning to get a bit disheartened though- as we have been bonding them for 2 months now and I thought we were almost there! I was planning an overnight session today but we seem to have taken a step backwards.

They are able to eat near each other and be near each other, but it isn’t really a litter tray it is a large tray with lots of room.  Milo stopped being so scared of Louie and running away every time he came near.
Tonight Louie presented his head every 5 minutes to Milo and Milo just lay flat ( as he does! ) Louie groomed Milo after several of these or groomed himself or hopped away the others. Then after a while he got annoyed. He was nudging Milo’s head and when he groomed it was his side and underside he seemed a bit rough but I am not sure -and then he nipped and a little chase (Milo ran away) which was stopped easily with a ‘Hey ‘ loudly from me. This happened a few times and then Louie nipped Milo’s butt a few times.
It isn’t very aggressive but Milo is apprehensive now. This is probably as bad as it has ever been even in the beginning!

louie is chasing a lot and I don’t think it is super aggressive but don’t think it is fun as Milo runs away!

I definitely don’t feel I can move on to the next stage now- but they still seem ok- I just don’t know if Milo is going to nip /bite Milo now if he feels like it.   I know it is just the dominance thing- but what if Milo won’t submit!

Milo has groomed Louie a few times when he was flopped over but Louie chased him off after a while. I just read most bunnies are bonded after a week – we have been at this for months and it seems to be moving in wrong direction!
😢

thanks again for all your help.

Hi

thanks again.
after being at the end of my tether I may take a break- but unfortunately there is a time constraint on how long I have till they have to be happily housed together.  I assumed 4 months would be long enough.
the area they are now in penned separately- in a month will be used for out of state guests.
The bunnies will then be housed in what is the neutral territory now.

I have no other areas unfortunately to do the mamouth sessions. I could put the new house (not ordered yet as had to send last one back when we were not at that stage and I decided it wasn’t large enough- although had seemed enormous before we actually had rabbits!)

in the room they share now- take out the pens and let them be free roam. There is a sofa bed in there so in theory I could watch them. But what do I do if I have to leave – the next few weeks being summer – is getting busy. I have already dedicated so much time – not leaving house to watch them for hours over the past 2 months.

The unfortunate outcome of this doesn’t work is that the submissive bunny will have to be surrendered. The dominant bunny (Louie ???) was rescued as an emotional support bunny for my daughter and he is perfect for that.  Milo was for my other daughter and so they could be friends when my girls go back to school.
I can not take Milo back to the shelter as it was a one off emergency for a cat and dog shelter. They took in 28 (from 280) bunnies rescued from a terrible hoarding situation.  All of them were adopted at an adoption day but Milo.
I have not been able to receive any advice from local shelters despite emailing and your advice really has been invaluable- thank you so much.

I know I keep writing a lot.

thanks again.

Update – I got the medical records.

seems like my poor Milo has had a very rough time of it – he is not 7 months as I was told but somewhere between 2 and 5.  His life was pretty awful before.

Also  he is intersex.

Nobody seems to be able to tell me much about this – I just have his neutering records.

I have no idea if this is why I am having issues with them bonding.

🤷🏻‍♀️

Any advice ?

Hi

thanks again for reply.
I only have paperwork that says he has hermaphodite qualities with both testicles and vulva/ and the surgery notes that say he was spayed and they had stitched the vagina. There was no mention of unltrasound to check internal organs. As Milo was part of an enormous hoarding situation- he actually went to several shelters and I am going back and forth between them trying to find out any information.
I may have to take him to a specialized vet (my vet said this was out of his expertise) and find out if he needs any more surgery.

From what Wick was suggesting hormones present could cause aggression in either or both bunnies.
neither of the bunnies have ever shown any aggressive behaviour to each other.
Milo absolutely none at all!
louie sometimes lately is getting a little frustrated when he wants grooming to be reciprocated and will (mainly in the evening only) nip -slightly and chase Milo off – but not follow far. Few steps.

I had decided we would try to home them separately – not ideal at all, but a lot less stressful. They would be completely separate though – in different rooms. They would each have free roam of each room and then they could come together in the neutral space.
it feels like they are already almost bonded though.
We put them together for  the day yesterday and they are so close -They are almost there. Louie goes over to Milo and snuggles and Milo just stays there. Louie grooms Milo quite often now. (Not reciprocated) they just lie next to each other sleeping. Milo’s head under Louie belly (as Louie has smushed next to him and Milo just is still. They both flop near but not next to and eat together. It is just a feeling I have that as it is not mutual yet I didn’t want to leave them unsupervised.
the time of day did make a difference- only coming out in evening after being separate – Louie wanted to play and was in to all the toys.
That was when he nipped a few times.  He wanted his groom requests granted.

if Milo needs surgery they have to be separated anyway so maybe easier for them not to get too close.

Thanks again for all your advice.

Hi Wick

Thanks for the response.
It sounds similar to my bunnies- especially the  fright freeze frame. Milo does seem to like Louie though. Louie is just a big love bug who wants to greet every person and is trying to be nice to Milo. He just get miffed sometimes if he can’t get groomed back. He likes to remind Milo he is the boss occasionally but he has never been very aggressive.
He will take food out of Milo’s mouth (hay etc) and Milo just gets another piece. Milo is comfortable around louie as he flops when together  – which I never thought he would do when we got him – he was terrified of everything.

As mentioned I am unsure what to do. I will keep on as I am for now – letting them be together and watching but I think I will move them in to their own homes and rooms.
louie adores people and loves snuggles and zooming all over my daughters room – hopping on the bed and all around.
milo stays in a corner or in his hidey hole and even when he can leave his pen he doesn’t. Hel he will tolerate short pets but seems to be ok when he is groomed by Louie.

I appreciate all your help and advice.
good luck with getting your buns back in their free roam together.

Just to add – when they are in neutral territory for bonding the pen is not too large but a good size. I was referring to alone free roam time louie has in a room that Milo has never been where he can run around. – Louie was a free roam bunny I am assuming before he went to the shelter as he loves to be free. He was found pretty beaten up at the side of a busy road but he is always trying to escape and he is so happy I think he must have been loved but got out in to the wide world and had a fight with something much bigger than him!

The surgery notes don’t say spayed.
The sex on the document is male.
I am assuming he was neutered but they stitched/glued his vagina closed.
that is all I know.

Generally I become nervous when there is a groom stand off but most of the time it is fine.
In a 5 hour session yesterday it happened twice- not sure if anything started it but maybe Louie was a bit put out.

we did an evening session where I put them together From 7-10 pm (I usually do day times -till about 8) Louie was full of beans and was a bit nippy that day. He was also more playful and in to everything.

I would say the nipping is still minimal but more than has ever been. Even at start. (Milo was much more skittish at beginning )

Milo freezes and lies flat- that was why I was wondering from the start of it was a dominance thing or just fear?  He lies flat often and if Louie is hopping past he immediately puts his head down- more in an (I am not a threat way)

😀🐰

I am not sure how to upload media. I tried to upload some pics ( taken yesterday) . I am not sure if you can see them?

I will try to take a video and upload.

thank you 😊

Hi.
I reached out and spoke to someone from a rabbit rescue and they said that from the photos the bunnies look bonded or at least close so I should go ahead with the 48 hours and see how it goes.
I guess I can always separate them long term then if it doesn’t work out and have them play together when supervised.
Next week I will plan to spend the whole week watching them 😳

wish me luck.

Hi

I Wanted to update and had a few questions if that is ok?

Bonding still going ok- no real change. Some days I think they are there and then others I feel it will never happen.  this week Louie decided to chase a little. Not sure if it was playful or not- especially as they have had relatively little chasing since beginning this seemed like it was going the wrong direction.

since the beginning there has been zero mounting and little aggression – just a few nips and chases after grooming standoffs. (Milo runs at slight movement this may be why)
They will still flop. Near but apart. Louie has come over to Milo several times and flopped on top of him. (Today milo moved away afterwards though!)

I increased the space today- they were both so happy! Binkies and zoomies for almost the entire hour. Louie chased Milo quite a lot today. The most he has ever done and at the end he seemed more aggressive in purpose. It was stopped with a loud ‘Hey’ each time. (But this doesn’t seem a positive step forward)

did I increase the space too soon? (It has been 6 weeks of bonding daily)  should I let Louie chase- Milo seemed more skittish again and they ran in big circles – but I kept intercepting in case it escalated.

I wanted to stop the session but needed it to end on a good note. Eventually louie went over to Milo (hiding in a small space) and cuddled alongside him.
I am so confused. I think they are there and then I think they never will be.
They spend the day time together- with supervision.
When I do the overnights I am worried I won’t hear the scuffle- when asleep.
is it very noisy?

I am intending to do the marathon overnight all day non stop next week.
If i do this and it doesn’t work out can I separate them and keep them in different rooms permanently? If they are almost bonded will this still be ok?

I am so nervous about leaving them unsupervised and having them fight.

they have never fought, but I don’t think they have figured out who is dominant yet. (Even though Louie appears dominant in every way- and Milo seems scared of every movement he makes- Louie is the one who mainly grooms. Milo only occasionally grooms)

sorry – I know this is a lot of questions. I just feel so confused and anxious about this bonding.

Both bunnies seem very happy- but I am not convinced they wouldn’t be just as happy on own.

thanks for all your advice.

Thank you!
means so much to get some feedback and help.
Hopefully next week goes well and I can update. 💕🤞

Hi

We have started the week long bonding process – 😳 in hope to cement their relationship.  Oddly enough Louie seems to chase Milo way more than he ever has. I will keep an eye on this. It is the reason we didn’t do an overnight last night as I had read you should wait until no chasing or nipping before moving to that stage. So we are trying again today.

louie will go up to Milo and sort of nip and shove his nose under his belly. Milo doesn’t move out the way though. Is this grooming or aggressive behavior? I don’t think Milo likes it but he doesn’t run away. If he does move then a little chase happens.
Also Louie’s chases can be stopped with a ‘hey’ but then he looks at me/us and immediately goes to the wall and flops! Every single time! Is he sulking? Saying sorry?

louie is also the one who will go up to Milo and flops next to him – Milo doesn’t go up to louie very much if ever. Louie is also the one who grooms. (Yet also appears dominant)

The bunnies live in double xpens in our spare room. This is where I hope to put the bunnies together once bonded. I swap them in the pens every day. Is this considered neutral?
The plan is to keep them together all day and overnight  in my daughters room for the next few days (this is where all bonding has taken place) and then clean the other room completely and move them in there together for the latter part of the week with their new home. Supervising them for the entire week.

would this be ok? Would it change too much to move them back in a different room? (Their room- they have only been in it together never alone but always separate)

Also what happens if after a week I still don’t feel I can leave them!

The situation is that if this doesn’t work out they will be single buns who get supervised play time together but live in separate homes. (It also means separate rooms where they will not see each other but will have a room each)

the play time will be in their original area as the rooms will now no longer be neutral.  Will this be cruel if they are almost bonded? Would it be a bad idea to have them together to play if they don’t see each other- would they be strangers again?
We have spent every day for the past 2 months  working on this and they have spent a minimum of 3-4 hours a day together every day. Up to 8 hours many days. It has taken a long time but I want to get it right – I am worried they just won’t get there. This is the big test this week! 🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞🤞

Hi
We did a 12 hour session with the bunnies yesterday and although they have been together for very long periods before – yesterday was the first time (I now realise) that Louie has actually acted  aggressively. All previous little chases and nips did not have the intent that the couple yesterday had. Louie also went to bite Milo on the face when grooming. I haven’t seen any fur pulled or marks but it is a level up from normal.

Every time we stopped him (loud hey!) Louie flops- immediately. Like he is sulking or saying sorry. Every time!

Louie always goes up to Milo and flops near him, grooms him and wants to be near – but he also chases and now is a little aggressive towards him. Milo just minds his own business and keeps to himself.

Because I didn’t trust Louie last night we put them back in their pens. Normally they sleep alongside each other in their beds.
last night they slept in far ends of the pens away from one another.

early this morning I put them back together. Louie flopped next to Milo and groomed him.
He has since gone to attack him- and bite him.

milo is running around now and binkying while Louie eats so I think he is ok- but it feels like this is getting worse!  I went and checked Milo and no marks or fur pulled.
will they ever just get along without me having to worry about Louie attacking or chasing?

I now understand that the normal reactions when bunnies are introduced did not happen but are happening a little now instead. It is stressful.

Milo will not groom – I think that is what the issue is. But he is not trying to dominate Louie either he just chills. Louie definitely thinks he is boss but he is the only one that grooms.

I have a video – (couldn’t upload) of Louie coming up to Milo , flopping on him- looking for snuggles, putting his arm on him and then grooming him. This all seems great apart from then milo hops away.
later louie went for him. Do you think his feelings are hurt and he is mad about it?

tonight we plan to do the overnight- I no longer have one of the pens as my friend needs it back so now we have to. I have a new one ordered. I can put Milo in a large wire dog crate  tonight if needed.

is this normal. Should I give up now – if I carry on and it doesn’t work it may be harder to separate them?  Sorry – I am just getting disheartened.

thanks again

Hi

we haven’t done any stress bonding.
louie didn’t seem phased at all on his ride home from the shelter so we figured it would only be Milo- and he is always stressed anyway!

they spend all day together supervised for weeks now. Louie is good most the time. He doesn’t like to be in any sort of pen or cage or room even! He is constantly trying to escape.
I am pretty sure that is how he ended up on a very busy road all banged up! I think he escaped his last home. Milo has been in a tiny cage his whole life – he likes to lie swaddled in a blanket. He seems happy though – he lies more on his belly arms and legs stretched out- but Louie just flops over and closes his eyes!

We did an overnight. They have been together non stop for 24 hours.
I have two very tired teens! I think there was a chase or two but from what they said – Louie runs around a lot at night!

milo looks a little spooked this morning- no fur or marks but he is definitely wary of Louie this morning. I will keep a very close eye on them today.

The bunny that is the most affectionate to the other and seems to desperately want to be friends – is also the one who seems to be stopping it- but i know it is just because I don’t think Milo is playing along.

We are out of rooms at this point. hopefully the next 48 hours go ok. 🤞

The bunnies have been together for 48 hours straight. We started on Monday and two overnights.
They share the food, water and litter trays. They play with the toys together. They mostly take turns to eat the hay while the other does binkies and plays and switch off. When fresh hay is out in they both hop in together and munch.

louie grooms Milo, then will groom himself. Milo put his head up and looks like he is kissing Louie when this happens. I don’t think milo knows how to groom.

louie is full of energy. He is constantly banging and moving the xpen with his nose. (All day and night) the space is large – if it was the room he would be constantly digging at the door. He always wants to explore!

He also still chases Milo. I know bonded pairs don’t chase that much?

most the time it is just one loop round the pen and I am not sure if he is trying to play? Milo runs away each time but doesn’t seem concerned once I shout hey and it stops. It usually stops on its own but occasionally I still have to say something. If milo is flopped louie sort of runs at him but it doesn’t seem to attack- more of a run and startles milo.

i wouldn’t say they are bonded – they sleep near each other. Louie tries to sleep next to Milo but he moves away slightly.
I would feel happier leaving them to go to the bathroom etc (I haven’t done this) for short periods.

most of the activity and chasing happens at dusk.  It has only been a handful of times- but it still shouldn’t be happening? Right?

They were in the bathtub yesterday while I got their pen ready with new toys and litter pan and they were snuggled.
inam planning on keeping them together in this space over the weekend and then hopefully moving them in to their new condo on Monday and keeping an eye on them in there.

The rabbit house( hutch) is large and is only for a base. They will also have a small xpen and for several hours access to the whole room.
I am worried how Louie will do in the smaller space.

thanks again for all your advice.

Hi.

we are on day 5. 3 overnights done. 😌

The bunnies seem happy together, they sit in the litter box together and I don’t worry about them like I used to! They keep me up at night with binkies and taking it in turns to bite the pen and banging and trying to move it.

They do not cuddle and not much grooming -Louie tries. Milo moves away after letting him for a while.
They sleep flat out and flopped but not together – is this a problem? They both seem happier that way. Louie has made himself a little nest in the corner and he likes it there.
I have left them for a few minutes (bathroom or get a drink) but when can I leave them for longer periods ?

They are content enough. Louie will groom the stuffie occasionally- (they had identical stuffed animals in their pens ) I am not sure if he wants to be more loving than Milo is letting him. Milo will hop away if Louie comes near (sometimes) even if Louie is approaching in a ‘hey’ way.

My original question was happy but not bonded. I think they are bonded – maybe not completely but a week together now – I know they like being together.

I do worry they are more roommates doing their own thing, maybe that will change over time? I don’t mind as long as they will not fight down the line.

Because they don’t have the grooming and snuggling when will I know I can leave them for longer periods. Tomorrow I have to do something for a couple of hours. Should I put the xpen between them? I will try not to leave if I can but is it better to just separate them briefly with a single pen gate or leave them together.
there hasn’t been any chasing since Tuesday.

I decided to keep them together in this neutral space until Monday to be sure of the bond before I change their living situation.

thank you 😊

Thank you again Dana- and thank you for replying and keeping me (relatively) sane during this whole process.

we are a week in to them being together the whole time. I did not separate them (my daughter changed her plans and remained home to check on them) but we will need to be able to leave them alone soon.
I think they are bonded or at least tolerating but I do not feel comfortable leaving them for long periods – I leave them and check on them every 20 mins.

They sleep apart but I think Milo just wants his own space. I think he is still a bit wary.
louie will often try to sleep next to him. Milo will sometimes stay and sometimes hops away. Often louie is just wanting to say hi in a non aggressive way and Milo runs away,
Louie grooms but Milo still will not groom. It says you want to at least see some mutual grooming. He did try in the last but it was awkward and I don’t think he got it and Louie didn’t love it. Also he is much smaller than louie so can only groom if Louie flopped or asleep and Milo isn’t brave enough  to approach I don’t think.

louie nudged Milo out of the litter box (hay) today which was new as they have been sharing with no issue for a week. It didn’t take much- just a tiny nudge near his butt! No nipping. I took louie out – Milo hopped in and then Louie hopped back in and all was ok again but it still gave me pause for concern.

louie doesn’t have to do much to make Milo move!

they actually snuggle when we put them in the bath together with a towel down.- (we didn’t do this in the beginning as we didn’t need to.- we do it now when I need to clean out their pen and give them a change of scenery!) we ran out of rooms.
I worry that when they are in their new hutch we will have to start watching them non stop again? The hutch is big ish (says for 2 bunnies and takes over a big chunk of the room) they will be allowed to free roam when we are around. I am now thinking we may have to have a pen as well as Louie really wants space. Milo will be great in there- (he will prefer it and may never come out!) what do you think? Would Louie turn on Milo if he is cooped up?

We go on vacation in a few weeks. Somebody is coming to check on them twice and day and feed them etc. they will have been together a month- (if all goes well.) Will this be long enough to cement a bond and not be supervising?

I just vacuumed near the room and Louie ran to Milo- i think that is a good sign?

thanks again- I really value your advice.

Hi

just wanted to update.
The bunnies have been living together for 10 days.

3 days ago we moved them back to their original space and now They live in a hutch with an xpen when we are not around but free roam in that room when we are. ( The hutch has an upstairs – which one bunny just jumps into and doesn’t use the ramp at all and one that hasn’t figured out the ramp but I know would love it up there!)

The reason I started this thread was because the bunnies never showed any aggression but didn’t show any affection either.  I was confused if they were making progress.
After all this time together this hasn’t changed. They tolerate each other but they are now bonded I think.  We took it slowly. They spent time together every day for 3 months. Increased until they were together for up to 10 hours a day – but the dynamic didn’t really change.  Roommates. I was hoping they would gradually get more snuggly but I don’t see that happening? It may but they seem to chose to be away from each other. (Louie goes about his day and Milo keeps away)

They sleep apart and although will eat together when fresh hay is out in- milo generally will hop out the litter tray during the day when Louie hops in.
Milo is still wary of Louie, not scared but just prefers not to be so near but has no problem when it is his decision.
If louie comes up to him he will hop away or lie flat but Louie often will come to sleep near him and Milo just stays (or doesn’t )

They are left unsupervised for short amounts of time but so far no overnight unsupervised.
Louie grooms. Milo does not. Milo shows no dominance but won’t groom back.

my concern is that some time- maybe months from now a fight may break out?

also we are going out of town for a few days in a couple of weeks. The bond is so new that we decided not to move them. A friend is going to check on them twice a day. Is this ok for such a new bond? They will have been together almost 5 weeks by then.

we are going also  away in just over a month for a week. (7 weeks together) Would boarding be a better option for the longer stay? Here someone who understands rabbits would be able to keep an eye on them ?

Thanks again/

Left the bunnies for an hour or so unsupervised. Came back and everything seems normal. They were sitting near each other. Milo went to the spot he likes to be and Louie hopped up on the sofa.
next thing I know – Milo comes out louie jumps down towards him- Milo thumps and runs and hides underneath the hutch in a corner. I picked Louie up. He seemed agitated a little.  (Louie can go but has to lie on tummy and swim under there)
I am freaking out thinking they have to be separated now after all this time- (I can’t go through that again) Milo comes out and seems fine and not bothered by Louie.

What happened. They seem ok again now?
I think this was what I was always concerned about. It not being clear they were bonded but they have lived peacefully together until now.
should I just keep an eye on them. What do I do now when I need to leave them alone? They whole xpen set up was removed to make way for their new home. We waited a week to make sure.

I just don’t know what to do.

Thank you again.
We are cautiously proceeding with them being together still but I have to start leaving them at some point! We are watching them 24/7 at the moment. The incident happened after I left them for an hour. It wasn’t really anything but it wasn’t how I think bonded bunnies should act. Milo came out and Louie jumped off the sofa and Milo ran away and hid. Louie didn’t actually do anything.
afterwards they were fine. Milo seemed unbothered and they snuggled (see pic if it will attach) so we left them together and they seem ok again.

They haven’t figured out the hierarchy- Louie appears to be the dominant in every way – except when Louie asks to be groomed milo won’t budge on that. This is the cause of most of Louie frustration. Milo does not appear threatening at all. He hops away if Louie bounds towards him or he lies completely flat as in – I am no threat. But when Louie presents his head- then I see a little steely – not happening from milo! (It is surprising)

bunnies are so confusing!

Unfortunately we seem at an impasse- they will stay together and hopefully become much closer or something will make me realise they need to be separated. I have had to keep cancelling and rearranging plans as I can’t leave them at the moment.

The living situation is such that they will be together or they will have to be completely separate in different rooms without being able to see each other – but they could in theory still have playtimes – but I am assuming any bond they have would be broken so would that work?

hopefully they will figure it out. The only real issue is me not wanting to leave them.

My girls think they are fine!
Maybe the problem is me! I am definitely more anxious than my girls around them. I see issues that they don’t notice.

Thank you both for the advice.
I tried the banana trick at the beginning of bonding when the stand-off first happened.
milo isn’t that interested in banana even when I feed him some- he can take it or leave it (although it is his favorite of all greens and fruits)

milo has groomed Louie several in the beginning. He would go over to him when he was flopped and groom him – but he only centered around the eye and didn’t move on so after a while that annoyed louie. (Meaning louie would sit  up or move and Milo would hop away)

Milo wanted to groom I just don’t think he knows how.

whenever louie is moving around – Milo will go up near him and follow him. He sniffs his butt a lot – louie doesn’t seem to mind- but if louie was to turn around milo would either lay flat or hop away.

louie wants Milo to groom so badly. Poor louie grooms the cushions and soft stuffy near him if milo doesn’t reciprocate.
I am not sure what exactly Milo went through before I had him. I know he was in a tiny cage and there were at least 8 rabbits in that cage.
I know he was housed with another male in the shelter- so they thought he would be receptive to a friend. Maybe he just wants to be on his own- but Milo actively seeks out louie- he is just apprehensive.
As I write this the two are snuggled upstairs in their hutch taking a nap. Milo used to go elsewhere but now he has worked out the ramp they choose to sleep together.
Is this a good sign?

I haven’t separated them since I put them together 12 days ago. When they used to be side by side milo would always sleep next the the pen by louie. Louie would move around a bit more- so in that situation it was Milo I assumed would be sad if I separated them.
Louie was fond of my daughter before milo – but she only had him a week so it wasn’t a bond as such. This isn’t as strong anymore although he is still affectionate and playful- but he is a handful and he does need a lot of attention – whereas Milo doesn’t really want (or has not been used to ) any human interaction.
Milo is a very different bunny from the one we got from the shelter- he was so scared and miserable and now he seems genuinely happy- but I have realised he may always be apprehensive and scared.
He is also a Netherland dwarf and so may also be skittish by nature.

I will see how they get on. At the moment it seems ok.

thank you again for all your advice. It is very much appreciated

Milo groomed Louie. It lasted 2 seconds – I really don’t think he knows what to do!
but it made me happy.
hopefully louie noticed – 😉

Hi

we are now on 2 weeks living together and I would say they are coexisting ok. I can leave them unsupervised for short times (although it makes me stressed!)

they snuggle less than they did. Not much snuggling or grooming going on at all- seems like less than previously. Milo doesn’t groom and it is as if Louie has given up trying.

Milo will tolerate Louie snuggling near him if he is already sleeping/ loafing but if both active Milo hops away when Louie comes near.

they can both share the litter box happily when fresh hay is out in but usually if Louie comes up milo hops out.
It is sounding like Milo would prefer to be on his own as I write this- but I know Milo likes being around louie. He has always been happier when they are together he just seems more skittish not scared.

my worry and concern is that they are fine for now but one day it is not going to be ok?
In the beginning although it was always the plan to have them together if it hadn’t worked I would just have had them separate.
now they have bonded (although it is not how it should be there is a bond there) I feel if I separated them they would both be sad.

so I am fretting- because I feel I can’t separate them unless there is an incident and I don’t want there to be an incident!

we go away in 3 weeks and someone is coming to watch them twice daily. They are not rabbit savvy however and I am concerned about this.
I am also boarding them for a week the following week- at a rescue that does boarding. (they get vaccinated this weekend which is why they cannot board until then)

Dana – do they sound Like your bunnies. Living together peacefully but not affectionate or snuggly? Like roommates?

can it ever work out like this? Because they seem ok and we are fine with it- it just doesn’t sound like how it should be?

I also keep reading other posts where it seems ok and then they have a tussle.
(As I write this louie just came over to Milo – tried to do grooming stand off and now has spent a whole grooming Milo)

Thank you.

Thank you Suzanne. Knowing yours have gone a year makes me feel much better.
They are actually snuggled right now- which makes me feel a bit better.
Hopefully they will be ok 🤞

two and half weeks in (seems much longer) And they move around together (well Milo follows louie) sleep sometimes together and I think there is grooming but I am not watching them all the time now so it is probably when they are on their own.
They now sleep unsupervised and I leave them for times during the day.  They are supervised during early morning and late evening where they like to run around and have more energy.
louie will bound over the Milo and Milo will run away- but I now see it through my less anxious eyes- of Louie being energetic and playful and Milo being skittish. Milo comes right back to louie after he runs away- during bonding I saw this as chasing but now I think it was /is just the bunnies being together.

Thank you for all your help – I found the bonding process very stressful and it was a huge help to have everyone’s advice – particularly Dana who helped keep me sane. 😉

Hi

I just wanted to update and ask a question.
Louie and Milo have been living together since beginning July.
We went away for a weekend and had someone come over and watched them and they were fine.
we recently boarded them for over a week and they seemed to do well. The lady said they were fine together.
When they came home I noticed Louie chase Milo out of the litter box. Just by nudging -no aggression that I saw – but Milo
Is always a little wary of Louie. But also adores him and will follow him around everywhere. He also chase him a little that night which worried me but I kept a close eye and it didn’t last long.
They seem great in every other way and they have both been in the litter box since. I thought maybe it was just a dominance thing coming back from the boarders to their space.

louie is a handful in general and likes lots of attention!

this morning when cleaning up I found a single tuft of hair with a tag on end- I have never found one of these before.
They seem ok. I cant see any injuries.
does this mean they had a scuffle?
They have both been through mounts and I didn’t see this before.

Thank you

Thank you for the reply.
yes it was a small tuft bunched up with like a dry tag on the end.
we returned home over a week ago and the nudging out of the litter tray happened that night and that was when  I kept a close eye for most of the evening and night.
I haven’t seen anything worrying since until this tuft.
their area is not small.  The pen/ cage they were in at the boarders was large enough but much smaller than what they are used to. Louie in particular hates to be caged so I was reluctant to keep them in a small area when he was so happy to have room.

they have a two story hutch with doors always left open with large pen and then we leave the pen open for most of the day where they have free roam of one room.
At night they are penned.
I will continue to keep an eye on them but I can’t see anything right now.
If anything louie is seeking out lots of attention from me to pet him. Maybe Milo hasn’t been grooming him a lot.
(Milo has still not got the hang of grooming- he only grooms around the eye!)

thanks again

Hi –

So it looks like Milo is actually shedding. He only just went through a huge moult a couple of months ago but it seems like he is again. 🙂 Now I am thinking that the tuft may be because of this? It was just a single tuft so I will continue to keep an eye on them.