Wrong match?

[Nima]

Hello,

We had one female last year around 5 years for a trial adoption, but at the time, my rabbit boy 9 years wasn’t neutered. They liked each other; he would always lay close to her, she as well, and he groomed her, but when he wanted to play, due to his hormones, she ran away and was scared. That is why we gave her back, as I did not expect to neuter him at the time. Anyway, I am mentioning this to say that my rabbit would surely appreciate the right partner.

He is now neutered, and we have a rabbit girl on trial. She’s only about 3 1/3, although I’d prefer 5+. She’s more energetic, although I was told she’s spayed. She peed on the sofa, which I thought only unspayed rabbits do. She’s confident and flopped at her first night here. Nevertheless, she would not come close to the xpen and lay there and seek contact, she would pin her ears when my rabbit wanted to make contact with her and retrieve.

When they were in an xpen, she swang her head under his and wanted to be groomed. He did it a few times to be nice, I guess, and then walked away when she asked for it. He rattled on the xpen for most part, sat in front of the door, wanted out, and jumped out when he got a chance (me opening the door). Maybe it was too much attention she was asking for. He had the mushy poop for some time, which is now sort of under control. I have them free-roaming for most days now, and she sometimes comes to him and lays down next to him. Not always, but sometimes he gets up to lay down somewhere else. He lays next to her xpen at night for example when she’s inside but she would not lay directly close to his side (the other one last year used to do it). During the day, she would lay in one corner, he in another, now they have chosen separate rooms.  It’s been about nearly a month now.

Could it be that he doesn’t really like her or that’s a personality mismatch? He’s sensitive, so maybe he remembers how she was with him in the beginning. She also stole food from him (there was plenty), from his mouth even. However, I feel this has gotten better now when they eat together but she’s rather greedy about food. I am at home now, but if I go back to an office, I’d be worried about putting food out in the morning and my senior bun not having enough to eat during the day, although his eating slowed down after the neuter.  I want a bunny for him, not for me. So if they are not really together, and he does not get the enjoyment out of it, what’s the point of keeping her.

The lady from the bunny agency said better break it off sooner rather than later, and when I mentioned that I am now considering it, it didn’t seem to sit well and the bunny lady with us on trial was pitied. However, I need to make sure to do what’s right for my rabbit who has been with me for all this time! Should I try it with another rabbit who’s calmer and also lazy and sleepy for most part? Or will he be better off as a single bun as the lady from the adoption agency now suggests? I don’t think he is; he just needs the right partner and I am unsure if she will be it. One thought: I was told the bunny girl is going into heat three times a year, where she’ll have smelly urine. I checked with the vets, who said it’s unlikely if she’s been spayed. So could it be that my bunny senses that she may not have been spayed well, and that’s why he avoids contact (like the bunny girl last year running away from him occasionally)?  Are all spayed females normally calmer, chilled, and relaxed?

And as a responsible bunny owner, I think I should make sure I am finding the right personality fit for my bun. After all the years he’s been with me, I owe him that! She was very active and jumpy when I first met her in her place.. so how can I know which bunny will be best fit? Should it be an older one for him 5+ or should I consider another calmer one 3+ years?

Would truly appreciate your advice.

Best regards,

Nima

[DanaNM]

Hi there, I’m a little confused. Did you go through the bonding process with them? That means supervised dates in a neutral territory. If they have only been interacting in non-neutral territory that would explain a lot, but it’s also a good sign because you haven’t described any fighting. It’s very normal for rabbits in un-neutral territory to behave aggressively towards each other because rabbits are territorial (imagine if a stranger moved into your home, you would probably be concerned as well). Do you ever see them cuddle or groom each other?

I have a couple thoughts on some of your comments. Your boy was likely so interested in the first female because he was unneutered. He was interested in trying to mate, even though she was spayed. Unneutered buns will attempt to mount any female rabbit pretty relentlessly.

Also, many buns pee on couches, beds, and other soft surfaces that smell of humans. It’s also very common for unbonded rabbits to mark more as they are trying to stake a territory.

It’s also very normal for bonded rabbits to take food out of each other’s mouths (and a good sign that they like each other).

If you got her from a rescue I would assume they know whether she is spayed. Rabbits go into heat on demand. Spaying does not generally change personalities aside from reducing hormonal behaviors like aggression. All rabbits have different personalities, and their personality with humans may not reflect how they are with other rabbits.

It will be important to know if they are actually bonded. Bonded rabbits should never be separated as they can go into depression and stop eating. But if they haven’t actually bonded then there is no harm in trying another rabbit. But since you didn’t mention any fighting I actually think this is probably a decent match, and maybe they just haven’t been properly bonded yet?

 

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Nima]

Hi DanaNM,

Many thanks for your reply.

Yes, I had several bonding sessions with them in a neutral space (an exercise pen). I also did the initial swapping of items, etc.; it was all very gradual and responsible (that’s why it’s been nearly a month). She was very demanding and he groomed her once in there but then always stepped away when she wanted grooming. He wanted out most of the time, didn’t seem too comfortable with her demands (also the poop issue arose during that time, most likely stress). Since there was no fighting and I was advised to return her sooner rather than later if they didn’t match, I let them in a room together. So she would dash toward him, demanding to be groomed. He often would get up and seem annoyed (he’s not a fighter rabbit).  She would groom him on occasion. Most of the time, they lay apart even in different rooms as I had mentioned. There is no cuddling as such. She sometimes lays down next to him, sometimes appearing very needy (another point why I think she may actually not be spayed or something went wrong when they spayed her); he would get up most times and lay down somewhere else. So if she’s not actually spayed, he could smell it, possibly irritating him (like the female was irritated by him last year)? The bunny belongs to a lady, but the rescue manages the Facebook page where I found her, so I kept them in the loop. When she’s in the pen at night, she ignores him for the most part when he comes wanting to make contact.  The other day, she chased him away from the food area, mounting him heavily through the room (mounting I am aware it can happen in neutered/spayed ones, but this was a heavy kind of mounting). The taking of food was more bossy than loving, and it was one-sided.

So, I am getting mixed signals, but I feel she may not be the best personality fit for him due to her higher energy level. Perhaps it may also not be fair on her to keep her with a much calmer bunny if they are in different stages of their lives. What do you think?

Best regards,

Nima

[Nima]

I would like to add what I observed when she mounted him and also stole the food. She pins her ears back, which I reckon is a sign of aggression. This morning, as well, she pins her ears back in her demands for grooming. She ran after him a bit, nibbling him, pinning her ears back, demanding to be groomed a few times by forcing her head down, which he didn’t. He walked away.

[DanaNM]

I think it’s really up to you. They haven’t been fully bonded yet based on what you described. Doing just several sessions in a neutral space isn’t really enough, you want to see them acting fully bonded in the neutral territory before moving to a less neutral space. This means starting with daily shorter sessions and working up to them spending 48 hrs or several overnights together in the neutral space. Nothing you have described sounds unusual for un-bonded rabbit behavior. Typically rabbits will continue to show dominance behaviors (such as grooming requests, mounting, etc) until they trust that the other rabbit is not going to challenge them. Sounds like your male has been quite submissive, but it sounds like they haven’t fully sorted out dominance yet and are just tolerating each other. If you want to really see if it will work, it would be best to do some marathon sessions in neutral space and see if you can get past this phase.

But if you don’t feel like she is the right fit for you or your bun, I don’t think it would harm anything to try another rabbit. So it’s really your call!

I think she is very likely spayed btw, none of this sounds unusual or excessively hormonal.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[GlennTheLionhead]

Hey

I also agree with DanaNM. From my experience this behaviour all sounds pretty normal bonding behaviour and the timeline doesn’t seem too bad either, I’ve done two bonds that took 3 ish months and one that took 2 weeks with pretty much daily sessions and they all bonded successfully (snuggled lots and lived harmoniously post bond) despite lots of mounting and nipping during bonding. Bunnies often look like they don’t like eachother until they do, it’s all just them figuring out their relationship, so it’s possible you will see similar behaviours if you try a different partner. I agree about the marathon / extra long sessions in a neutral space to see if they start relaxing more.

That said, I think you will know from being with them if it just doesn’t feel like the right match

[Nima]

Thank you both for your feedback. Yes, I will have to go back to the neutral space bonding, and I wasn’t aware that they shouldn’t be let out to a bigger space until they truly bonded. My bunny wanted out of the pen most of the time; he wasn’t comfortable. He also walked away from her often as he seemed overwhelmed by all the requests for grooming from her side. I actually wanted an older bunny, which is not always available as he’s 9 and she’s 3 1/2. I was informed that personality matters more than age. However, maybe the age, in this case with an older bun who got a bit quieter recently, does matter. I will give it a week or 2 more as I was informed to return her sooner rather than later if I feel it won’t work out.

[DanaNM]

I don’t think age matters. My senior was feisty as all heck until he passed at age 14!

I think giving some more time in neutral is a good plan. Most bunnies really don’t like the bonding process, but once they are bonded they will be noticeably happier. 🙂 If you have doubts about whether they are bonded, they probably aren’t there yet.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Nima]

That’s great to hear 🙂 I’ve done the 24h bonding now and wanted to give a small update. He had some stress poop when they were in the pen. They did lay apart most of the time on different sides of the pen. She laid down next to him once. They ate together. She bit the bars a few times over this period (I thought mainly unneutered/unspayed buns do this?) Now the most important part, after releasing them back to free roaming. Interestingly, she sat close to my desk while he was somewhere else, so I first thought she may have bonded with me instead of him 😉 Now they are back to how it was before, they choose to be in different rooms all day. Bunny love and friendship look different, I thought.

She also chased him last night and this morning briefly with pinned ears which I understand is more aggression and dominance. It certainly doesn’t look like play to me. When they ate, she started to be a bit bossy again when the food was being served, and he thumped, which he hadn’t done before with her. Then again, she comes at times very briefly to groom him briefly. He refuses to groom her most of the time. She seems to like having a dual personality at times, if I may say so. One time she would very briefly groom his eyes only, the other time she just chases him away.

There were situations where he turned away from the feeding area as he seemed uncomfortable after getting that sign from her (pinned ears). She also still goes after him to get his snacks after she finishes first. So I am uncertain about how valuable it is to keep her around if they spend most of their time apart in different rooms. I got her for his benefit and not for me to have more work and 2 separate bunnies to look after. If there is no added value, then perhaps it’s best to call it off, as the personalities probably just don’t fit. That way, I could give her a chance to find the right partner and vice versa. I am also a bit worried that when I am not here, somebody else comes feeding them how that will be. He may be chased away and not end up eating at all. I think it’s just her personality (rather bossy) than just bad behavior. I’ve been trying and watching now for about 6 weeks. What do you think?

[DanaNM]

They don’t sound bonded to me, but rather they have reached a tolerance phase. At this point it wouldn’t be safe to have them live together full time or be together unsupervised.

I think your options at this point are to keep going with long sessions in neutral space and see if you reach a breakthrough (sometimes it can take a few days together, but in my experience they usually do start to seem much closer after 1 day), or try another rabbit if that’s an option for you.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

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