Worried – possible neuro problems with Frankie?

[(dig)x(me)x(now)]

For the last few days, Frankie has been beginning to show signs of a possible neurological problem and I am beginning to get really worried.

A couple days ago, my mom noticed him acting kind of odd when he was running around… less graceful than usual, but we put it off as just a bit of goofiness maybe and didn’t worry too much. Then today he was coming out to us and stumbled a little, which got me a bit more concerned.  Later on, my dad was having him stand on his hind legs to tease him since he does his trick “up” all the time where he basically stands on his hind legs and begs. But while he was doing the trick, Frankie fell over. Then just now, I felt  bad and coaxed him out from under my bed so that I could spend some time with him and get some good head rubs and love in, because I feel like he hasn’t been getting as much attention as usual and I am obviously concerned. I just got super worried because right after I was petting him, he was skipping over to his litter box to use it and possibly snack on some hay (which he seems to be snubbing a little), and he just tipped over to the side while he was walking. Now I am really, really worried and can’t relax myself.

I feel bad because I’m sure I’ve been missing some signs since I haven’t been spending as much time with him for the last couple weeks as I normally would.

Some other side notes: he does seem to be less social lately and less interested in hay. He wants to eat paper products. He seems to be eating, peeing, and pooping ok from what I can tell, but is not as enthusiastic about his food. I can definitely tell that he knows something is off.

I am definitely going to take him to the vet this week, but does anyone have any advice or ideas of what this might be? All I can think is E. cuniculi, and either way, I’m just plain worried. He doesn’t seem to have a head tilt either, so I don’t think it’s an ear infection. But he is poking at his right ear a lot, so I’m not dismissing the idea.

[(dig)x(me)x(now)]

Now that I think about it, he is shaking his head a lot too. So maybe it is an inner ear problem. I don’t want anything to be wrong with him, but it would at least be somewhat relieving to know it is treatable. I really wish it weren’t the weekend so I could whisk him to the vet =\

[BinkyBunny]

Many bunnies can be carriers of e.cuniculi and only until they are older when their immune system is weaker do they show signs. But also it could be due to an ear infection, a leg injury or even arthritis. How old is Frankie now?

Let us know what your vet says, and I am sending hugs to you and healing vibes to Frankie!! 

[(dig)x(me)x(now)]

I got him in ’06, so he’s going on 4 years old in September.

[BinkyBunny]

Well, it is more likely to be an ear infection just because of the stats/probability(keeping fingers crossed). Rucy had an inner ear infection and her imbalance symptoms were VERY similar to the symptoms that can be seen with e.cuniculi, but she was negative E.C. at the time. Once she got treatment, she recovered fairly quickly.

Along with the symptoms of head shaking, it could very well be an ear infection. Definitely get Frankie in to see your vet asap because even this imbalance can cause a bunny to stop eating and pooping. Keep a close eye on that.

[(dig)x(me)x(now)]

I will most definitely be watching him closely. I wish I didn’t have to work for a good chunk of tomorrow =\

[jerseygirl]

It does sound like ear infection Rachel. It could even be linked to his teeth…. Keep us posted!
{{{Frankie}}}

[kralspace]

oh Rachel, I hope it’s just a simple thing and Frankie will be back to normal soon. We’ve missed him.

(((((((extreme good health vibes for Frankie and a small sedative for you))))))

Kathy

[RabbitPam]

It sounds like a problem in one ear to me, too.

Maybe keep him from anything that, if he lost his balance today, might hurt him. Like a platform or jumping up on a couch if he does that. Hand him treats directly in his mouth. Watch to see if he has any trouble getting into his litter pan, and if so, help him in. Be sure to get your appointment for tomorrow and not wait longer. I really don’t think you’ve missed anything. It sounds like it’s gotten worse over the weekend, not over the past week.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{Healing vibes, Frankie}}}}}}}}}}}}}

[(dig)x(me)x(now)]

Thank you, everyone. The rabbit vet is at the clinic right down my street 2-3 times a week, so fingers crossed that he’ll be there on Monday so I don’t have to make Frankie go on any long car rides when he’ll already be mad at me! He seems to be trying to function, but is def a bit clumsy today. Poor thing. Thanks for the good vibes.

[(dig)x(me)x(now)]

Just an update: Frankie’s vet will be in on Tuesday. He has an appointment then at noon. If he worsens a lot today or tomorrow, the clinic is 24/7, so I’ll take him in if I feel the need.

[Elrohwen]

Sounds like an inner ear infection to me as well. I hope the doctor is able to fix him!! ((vibes for Frankie))

On the EC issue, I’ve been told that EC doesn’t actually cause the head tilt/balance issues, but rather it weakens the immune system to the point that ear infections become common. Can anyone else confirm or deny this? Not sure where I read it.

[MimzMum]

Poor Frankie! Does sound like a bit of vertigo. Hopefully the vet will have an easy solution for him.
Snuggles for Frankie and healing vibes! (((((((((((((((((((Frankie)))))))))))))))))))))

[BinkyBunny]

Posted By Elrohwen on 04/25/2010 12:08 PM
Sounds like an inner ear infection to me as well. I hope the doctor is able to fix him!! ((vibes for Frankie))

On the EC issue, I’ve been told that EC doesn’t actually cause the head tilt/balance issues, but rather it weakens the immune system to the point that ear infections become common. Can anyone else confirm or deny this? Not sure where I read it.

E.C symptoms that include head-tilt are caused by a parasite that affects the bunnies neurological system.  Though it is possible for  bunny who has E.C., to ALSO have their immune system compromised,  which makes sense it could be possible to lead to ear infections which can also cause head-tilt , that’s a separate issue.    A rabbit who has head-tilt caused directly from the e.c. parasite that has infected the neurological system is suffering neurological problems that can cause head-tilt or paralysis or weakness.    Hope that made sense. 

It’s just that the likely-hood of it being an ear infection is higher than the head-tilt directly due to E.C.   More bunnies will suffer from the ear-infection than direct E.C symptoms.   

 

[(dig)x(me)x(now)]

I decided to bring Frankie by the emergency center today in his regular vet office just to have him looked over (I’m missing work bc of my own health problem). The vet who looked him over was having no luck w/ getting Frankie to cooperate and couldn’t get a good look in Frankie’s ears, but contacted his normal vet. His vet advised to start him on a oral antibiotic 2x a day and bring him back to see the vet during the week. I don’t know what the antibiotic is yet bc I’m still in the waiting room, but how does this sound?

[(dig)x(me)x(now)]

The antibiotic is called SMZ-TMP. 

Come to think of it, I’m on the same antibiotic myself this week, haha.

Any advice on syringe-feeding the meds to him? I’ve never had to do it, but I know how stubborn he is. 

[MimzMum]

I think that’s a pretty broad spectrum antibiotic. Looks like they’re trying to wipe out a number of things with that one.
Mimzy’s only had it once and that was last year sometime. But since his problem still hasn’t been found, I felt it really had no effect. Cleared up his nose for awhile though.

[Sarita]

Well, it’s rabbit safe I’ve used it numerous times for my rabbits for UTI’s – it’s also called Bactrim – it should be easy to give him since it’s a cherry flavor I believe.

I have no idea what it wrong with him though so I have no idea if it could work. I still recommend you take him to his regular vet for further testing.

[(dig)x(me)x(now)]

I am still taking him to his appt on Tuesday with his normal vet, who is the one who advised that I give him the antibiotics in the meantime as a precautionary measure.

[(dig)x(me)x(now)]

Sarita – you were right… I decided to give him his first dose and he liked it :]

[Sarita]

Good, please keep us updated!

[bunnyluvr]

How is sweet Frankie doing today?

[(dig)x(me)x(now)]

He seems more enthusiastic, but is def still struggling a little. He seems less upset about his situation though. But he’s still having some problems… this morning I bumped into him lightly on accident while I was feeding him his greens and he tipped over.Then later, he tried to run and stumbled. But he’s very enthusiastic about eating again. It’s good to see his mood is picking up a little… he’s been a bit grumpy over the whole situation.

Glad he’s taking to the antibiotics really well, but they seem to be making his poop smaller. He’ll be getting looked over by his regular vet tomorrow afternoon.

[kralspace]

Glad to hear Frankie’s still on his grub. Poor dude, he deserves to be grumpy with all this going on. How are you doing?

((((all kinds of healing vibes for you guys))))))

Kathy

[MimzMum]

Rachel, did they give you any probiotics to help with the digestion?
It’s good to hear he’s improving, even if there are some bumbling moments. ^_^

[(dig)x(me)x(now)]

So just got back from Frankie’s appointment with his regular vet. He was able to give Frankie a full exam and didn’t see signs of ear infection. Everything else is normal (teeth, weight, temp., etc. all good).

The doctor recommended to continue him on the antibiotic since it seems like it might be helping. Since there was not obvious problems, they also are running a blood panel this week… a full comprehensive panel to check organ function and another test to check for E. Cuniculi. I should get the results for the comprehensive test on Thursday and the EC test in about a week.

[Sarita]

Good to do those blood tests and titer – please keep us updated on your baby.

[Deleted User]

No ear infection? –So you have to wait some more to find out what’s going on. Vibes for you and Frankie! Yes, let us know right away what the results say!

[MimzMum]

((((((((((more healing vibes)))))))))))))

[RabbitPam]

I’m kind of sorry it’s not something that was detected and treated right away, but maybe the blood work will show something equally treatable – or that you’re already fixing with the meds. No arthritis? Just wondering if he’s tipping due to a flash of pain in joints or bones.

{{{{{{{{{{{{Love and healing vibes, Frankie}}}}}}}}}}}}

[(dig)x(me)x(now)]

I really doubt it would be arthritis because he’s never had problems like this and they were basically out of nowhere. I’ll just have to wait and see… if I’m lucky, the antibiotics that he’s on will take care of whatever is wrong.

[kralspace]

Rachel, how are you and Frankie doing today?

[Elrohwen]

Good luck Frankie!!

[(dig)x(me)x(now)]

Frankie has been showing a lot more improvement over the past two days. He has been a lot more energetic and social and jumping up onto things again. He’s also been back to running up to the fridge when people are looking it in. And I have been informed by a family member that he’s been standing on his hind legs and begging again while keeping his balance, and even took a few steps on his hind legs this morning.

Today the vet called with the results of the comprehensive blood panel. All of his organ function appears to be normal (I think his liver levels were a tad higher than normal, but not to a point that I need to worry). But his white blood cell count is high, which is a sign of infection of some kind. The vet is not entirely convinced that E. Cuniculi isn’t a possibility and I’ll have the reult for the EC test by next week.

For now, I’m continuing the antibiotics until the full ten days since he really seems to be improving. Hopefully the next call will be more good news.

[kralspace]

Yea for Frankie, here’s hoping the rest of the news is good!

[BinkyBunny]

That’s such great news!!! Continued healing vibes for Frankie!

And it also sounds like you have a good vet who is covering all the bases. It must be a relief to have a rabbit-savvy vet to rely on.

[HatterBunny]

Way to go Frankie!  ((((((((((((Healing vibes)))))))))))

[Lintini]

{{{{Vibes}}}}}

[LittlePuffyTail]

I am sad to see that Frankie has been unwell. Sending lots of Vibes to him that he keeps improving {{{{{{Frankie}}}}}} and that his test results don’t show anything bad.

[(dig)x(me)x(now)]

Thank you! I’ll let y’all know when I get the EC results!

[jerseygirl]

Rachel, I’m linking D Krempels info on EC here because it explains about blood test better than I can. It’s part way down the page.  http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/paresis.html   Your vet may have already said about this? 

In a nutshell, blood test can be really tricky with EC. There’s various reasons for results showing positive or negative. Lots of rabbits have either been exposed to EC or have an infection but it’s under control. Something like 80% of rabbits…(???) The main thing is Frankie has improved!!

[(dig)x(me)x(now)]

Thank you for the link. At this point, I’m not too incredibly worried because of the improvement he’s been showing. Even if it does come back positive, I don’t think should stress over it too much as long as he isn’t showing symptoms again. Of course, easier said than done!

[RabbitPam]

Glad our Frankie is doing better. Am interested in the test results, but thinking positive that you’ve already found the cure.

[BinkyBunny]

I agree with Jersey too about the results being tricky to explain (it’s more complicated than can be just simply explained— it IS tricky)   But even if he tests positive it doesn’t have to mean bad news. Sounds like your vet was on top of it right away anyway. Rucy had tested positive and never showed any symptoms, while Bailey, who  was positive definitely had related symptoms but she made great improvements and enjoyed life. More rabbits than not have been “exposed” but will never show symptoms, others can live good lives with symptoms, and so regardless of what is going on in seems like Frankie is doing much better.

One thing that is beneficial about having the tests, in my opinion, is IF he does test positive, and the vet suspects his symptoms were related, and now it’s under control, it’s just good to note, because some bunnies may never have symptoms again, but a weakened immune system due to stress, old age, etc, can make some bunnies more vulnerable to getting the symptoms again. But it’s good to be aware of that so you can do whatever you can to keep things happy and stress free for him if need be. AND you’ll be able to have a titer level to measure against later which can be helpful in some cases, like it was for Bailey.  (but then again, because it seems there are not definites for every case, even these can vary according to that article Jersey provided) 

[babybunsmum]

just reading this thread now… poor frankie and rach… it would be very distressing to witness your bun tipping over

so glad that he is doing better now!!! (((frankie)))

[(dig)x(me)x(now)]

Frankie has been doing pretty well lately, but the vet just called with the results of the E. Cuniculi test.

He said that the sample came back as a “very strong positive” titer – so Frankie is definitely carrying the bug. He wants to start an oral treatment twice a day for 20 days to try to prevent any further problems. I forgot what the medication is called, but I’ll let y’all know after I pick it up later.

[RabbitPam]

I’m sorry he has it, but at least now you know and he’s got a treatment to start and work with.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{Healing vibes, Frankie}}}}}}}}}}}}}

[Sarita]

Vibes to you and Frankie.

[Elrohwen]

{{Healings vibes for Frankie.}}

At least you know what he has and you can start treating. But I’m very sorry he tested positive 🙁

[Monkeybun]

Poor Frankie man. At least you know what it is and got it before it got bad! *snuggles and raisins*

[(dig)x(me)x(now)]

The drug he’s being treated with is called fenbendazole. It’s an anti-parasitic. .25 ml 2x a day orally. Blah. Hopefully it will help a lot!

[MimzMum]

Well, I think knowing he’s got this and having a treatment is so much better than shooting blanks in the dark, like I have been with Mimzy for the last year.
Continued healing vibes to the Frankster! ((((((((((((((get better Frankie)))))))))))))))))))))

[(dig)x(me)x(now)]

Blah, Frankie is being a little less than graceful again today for the first time in a couple weeks. I hate the feeling that I can’t really do anything for him. It breaks my heart just to see a little stumble. He’s my baby!

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

{{{{{{Frankie}}}}}}}}}

Going through this…well I hope I can help-we did fenben too (it’s panacur)-we did a lot more though-how much does Frankie weigh? We did .36ml. Anyways-here is a GREAT article -also does Frankie have any nystygmus (eye twitching?).
http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Neurology/otitis_interna_media.PDF

Anyways-I’ll share what my vet and the specialist think-because Chuck relapsed and has left-right nystigmus he has otitis not e.c. (though a titre test of any of my rabbits would likely show EC as most rabbits have it)-and that unfortunately most don’t know what works and what doesn’t since people are just starting to spend money on their rabbits vet wise (dogs and cats have much better reserach and meds)=anyways the recommendations in the article I posted are what we followed-while we had success it’s gone (he’s relapsed and we’re looking at possible surgery) most cases don’t go the way CHuck has and this article really outlines the current and new thoughts on head tilt/neuro and treatment. Drug cocktails are showing promise, and with Chuck he improved with a fenben, baytril, chlorpalm, and timoethoprim sulfate ….\

The biggies are the supportive meds-metacam and meclizine-a pain med and an antinaseant (sp??). See if your vet can get the meclizine for you-it’s extremely recommended with otitis-which it may very well be

{{{frankie}}} Keep us posted-and I hope the info is helpful!!

[BinkyBunny]

I think Bailey was on fenbendazole with her first episode which she actually improved on. Whether it had to do directly with the drug or her own immune system kicking in or both, I do not know for sure. When she started to decline again, a new drug (at the time) was Ponazuril, and an anti-inflammatory drug (which I can’t remember now what it was) and that seemed to help. It did bring her titer levels down and she also gained more movement in her back legs.

KK – I’m so sorry about Chuck. So interesting about otitis — “left-right nystigmus”!!! (Thanks for emailing me the info too! I really appreciate it)

Hugs and healing vibes to both of Frankie and Chuck!

[(dig)x(me)x(now)]

I haven’t noticed any eye-twitching. He’s pretty normal most of the time too, but when he does stumble it worries me. The vet told me that even after the fenben treatment, it will be months before he would even be able to tell if Frankies’ levels reduce and he improves. I’m glad that there are only minor problems at this point. He’s not too affected by it – he doesn’t seem to being in pain or anything and he will still eat and run and such even when he’s a bit off… he just gets a little grumpy and skittish. Nothing usually phases Frankie, but he gets so jumpy sometimes when it is affecting him; his senses are just off.

K&K – the Medi Rabbit article won’t load for me… it’s asking some kind of login. Can you just email me the pdf file? I’ll send a private message.

I hope Chuck improves! He’s such a sweetheart.

And about the medication dosage – Frankie weighs just under 6 lbs. according to the medical printout. He sure feels heavier! Haha.

[Author]

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