Why is my Medically Healthy Rabbit not Eating or Pooping?

[13Tskhmaster]

I am very worried about my rabbit, Hunny Nugget (lives indoors, spayed, three-year-old lionhead mix). For the past few days, she has not been eating with her usual vigor. Hunny used to practically inhale everything we gave her, but now we’re lucky if she even gives her hay or greens a nibble. If Hunny does put any food in her mouth, she seems to have trouble chewing it. Be it hay or greens, it falls out of my sweet girl’s mouth, seemingly untouched. Hunny then hops away in frustration, occasionally licking her lips like a dog eating peanut butter.

Nugget has also had trouble pooping, recently. She sheds a lot, so I’m used to seeing the occasional hairy pill or pearl string. We monitor Hunny very closely for this reason and brush her often. However, I think Hunny has only pooped three times in the past three days. The pills are smaller than normal, sometimes hairy, oddly shaped, and there are not as many.

Fearing a stomach blockage or dental problem, I took Hunny to a vet who specializes in rabbits. I was told she had not lost any weight since her last checkup and did not seem to be in any pain. The vet felt Hunny’s stomach, checked her teeth (even getting another vet’s opinion on their condition), and could not find anything wrong with her. Hunny was given some pain meds and sent on her way.

Hunny is definitely not acting like a sick or injured rabbit. She is just as perky and affectionate as ever, so why is she refusing to eat and having trouble pooping? We’ve been instructed to give Hunny Critter Care to help get her bowels moving (even though we have to force her to take it, with minimal success), and we also have to give her pain meds every 24 hours, as needed. The vet is calling back in the morning to follow up. I’m really scared Hunny is slowly killing herself by not eating. It really hurts me to see her this way, and knowing the vet couldn’t find anything wrong with her, I’m at a total loss. I’m a depressed, anxious wreck because I love this rabbit so much and cannot stand to lose her. What should I do?

[Enzo the bunny]

hey, I am not sure what is wrong with your bun mine is recovering from gi stasis right now and he had similar signs but if the vet checked her she probably doesn’t have gi stasis maybe ask your vet about that. Is she drinking water? you could try giving her critical care if you have some on hand to get something in her stomach. Hope she is ok!

[Louiethebunny]

I would feed her critical care like Enzo the Bunny says, it’s a good way to get her nutrients if she won’t until you find out how to help her. It sounds like she wants to eat, but can’t, so it could be a dental problem, hurting teeth stop rabbits from eating. Unfortunately, if she isn’t eating or pooping she could be going into g.i. stasis. If she has gas, a belly rub might help things feel a little better too. This situation is very strange because the vet has already checked her.

[Wick & Fable]

I do think requesting another vet consult is wise — it sounds very much like a dental-related issue. How did the vet check your rabbit’s teeth exactly?

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[jerseygirl]

I agree, a recheck is in order. With her pawing at her mouth, it does sound like something is bothering her there.

One of the forum leaders here had her rabbit get a stick of willow wedged across across the back molars one time. It reminds me of that.

I’m surprised the vet didn’t give motility meds.

Are you able to mix the critter care up thicker & see if she will eat it from a dish? Even try make little balls of it she can easily pick it up.

[Louiethebunny]

if she won’t eat anything at all, she will need to be fed with a syringe, and giving some water with a syringe will keep her hydrated too.

[Hazel]

Did they only look at the front teeth? To check the molars the rabbit has to be sedated. If that wasn’t done then she needs to go back to the vet. You might want to look for a vet who is more experienced with rabbits. Considering that he needed someone else to take a look, didn’t check the molars properly (if that’s what happened) and sent her home without any motility medication makes me think he isn’t all that bunny savvy.

[13Tskhmaster]

I should have been clearer in my original post: I was not the one who accompanied Hunny during her appointment. My sister was. She is of the opinion we are doing everything we possibly can, and she told me everything the vet said to her. I then took that information to make this post, because I am concerned the vet didn’t do a thorough-enough examination. I know for a fact Hunny was not sedated yesterday, so it must have been only her front teeth that were checked, even though my sister says the vet checked her back ones, too. Hunny was given pain meds for us to give her every 24 hours, as well as something to stimulate her bowels, in addition to the advice we feed her Critical Care. Over the past 14 hours or so, I’ve watched Hunny put greens and hay in her mouth, then drop them and hop away. She tries nibbling things sometimes, but I don’t think anything actually gets inside her. The batches of poop she makes are small, hard, and look like mini chocolate chips (even though she did have a few normal poops last night, too).

[Bam]

It does sound like dental problems. Sometimes vets dont see what’s wrong, even though they look with an otoscope at the molars. It can for example be difficult if the rabbit doesnt sit still enough. This happened with my bun, when he stopped eating last fall. I went to a different vet clinic for a 2and opinion, they identified problem and burred his teeth.

[Hazel]

Even very small spurs on the molars can easily cause pain and/or sores. That’s why it’s so important to sedate and have a proper look at the back teeth. Trying to take a peek while the rabbit is awake and moving won’t cut it unfortunately. These symptoms are textbook for teeth problems, especially since she TRIES to eat, but can’t, most likely because it’s painful. The vet should have recognized this and investigated further. I’m glad she’s still pooping a little bit, which means her digestive system is still somewhat active, but at this point she’s in real danger of going into stasis. 🙁

I would get a second opinion with a vet who is more experienced with rabbits if you can. Especially since she will have to be sedated you’ll want someone who knows what they’re doing.

[13Tskhmaster]

In the past few minutes, Hunny has nibbled the ends of a carrot piece and licked Critical Care off of a favorite treat (she is terrified of the syringe). We are currently waiting for the vet to give us a call; we spoke to a tech this morning who said she would pass our concerns along. I’m in a very rough position because there are no rabbit specialists in my area (the doctor we see is the one most experienced with small animals, someone my family trusts and has not had any problems with, thus far). There is another clinic a half-hour away that deals with more dangerous cases, but they also are not specialists, and going there has resulted in the deaths of our previous two bunnies…

We are doing everything we can to give Hunny the best possible care with what we have available. If we do not hear from the vet soon, we are going to call her ourselves. We will see what she says and take it from there.

[DanaNM]

Everyone has given really good advice so far, and I agree dental issues sound likely, but I will add that heavy molting can lead to tummy upset as well, and you mentioned she was pooping out a lot of hair. Bun Jovi went into stasis during a heavy shed about a year ago and that was the only cause we could think of (when he started pooping again lots of hair came out).

For now the supportive care is the same, especially LOTS of fluids.

 

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Louiethebunny]

Good luck to you and Hunny! I hope she starts to feel better!

[13Tskhmaster]

UPDATE: I spent a long time with Hunny this evening, just sitting in her corral and keeping her company. Some very interesting things happened:

1.) Three times over the course of the night, either in a “loaf” or relaxed position (sprawled out), Hunny was making clicking sounds while grinding her teeth. They weren’t the typical “purring” noises I’m used to hearing. They sounded like someone cracking their knuckles, a light “pop.” Is my baby trying to tell me she’s in pain? How do I help her when the only pain meds I have are to be given every 24 hours?

2.) Hunny has always had access to fresh water in her pen; she has both a dish and a traditional bottle for small animals. However, she hardly ever touches them. On a whim this evening, I placed a bowl of water in front of Hunny. She drank from it as if she had just been hiking through a desert. The poor thing was so thirsty!

3.) I watched Hunny struggle for a good 1.5 minutes with an inch-long piece of hay. No matter what she tried, my poor girl could not keep it in her mouth or even chew it. The hay kept falling out, Hunny kept bending her head awkwardly to try and grasp it, and she eventually gave up.

4.) I read soaking greens can help rabbits with Hunny’s symptoms eat better and stimulate gut movement. I did just that, and sure enough, Hunny ate a piece of parsley as if nothing was wrong with her! It’s a small victory, but it’s something, right?

First thing tomorrow morning, we are calling the vet to present our latest observations and concerns. I think everyone who already said this is right: my girl has a dental problem of some sort. I have some irrational fears about what will happen next to Hunny, but I’m hoping we’re all correct and something can be done to save her before it’s too late. Can GI stasis result from dental issues? Can they cause a bunny to stop eating and pooping? In the past four hours, Hunny has dropped six or seven pills. They are small, dark, and kinda bean-shaped. They aren’t the hairy pills I see when she’s shedding or normal pills I see when she’s at peak condition…Please pray for my girl, and thank you all for your tips!

[Louiethebunny]

That’s great to hear! It does sound like she’s feeling a bit better, as she is eating a bit and drinking. Checking in with the vet sounds like a good idea. Wish you guys the best!

[LBJ10]

Sounds like stomach discomfort. Yes, dental problems can lead to GI stasis.

[13Tskhmaster]

UPDATE: Hunny went back to the vet today. Her teeth were examined more thoroughly, and the vet decided as a start her lower molars need to be trimmed. Hunny should be undergoing the procedure as I type this. Please pray for her! Hopefully this fixes the problem…

[jerseygirl]

{{{Hunny}}}

Good luck!

i hope this helps and she’s back to eating normally soon.

[DanaNM]

Glad she went in for a trim! The loud clicking you hear is a symptom of pain (a different type of tooth grinding). Once her teeth are done just keep offering her lots of wet fresh greens to keep her hydrated and keep things moving, and give critical care if she’s not eating on her own! Dental and GI problems often go hand in hand (there is a feedback between pain and gut slowdown).

I had a bun with several dental procedures and he always seemed so much more comfortable after and ate right away, but some buns do need some extra supportive care after.

 

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[13Tskhmaster]

UPDATE: The vet just called to say Hunny has finished her procedure. She is not pooping or eating yet (vet offered Hunny grass and mango, neither of which she has ever had before), but she is grooming herself and trying to get used to her level teeth. Vet and I are hoping this fixed things, but vet says it’s possible there’s an issue we can’t see with the naked eye, so I’m still nervous. Vet wants to watch Hunny a few more hours, then we are bringing her home and hoping for the best. If things go south (please pray they don’t), we’ll contact a specialist.

[DanaNM]

Grooming is a very good sign. 🙂 Their mouths can be sore so she might not want to eat solids right away. You can offer some CC mixed with a little banana or canned pumpkin to see if she will eat it on her own as well. Plus lots of cilantro is usually very popular. 🙂

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Hazel]

So glad she got a trim! I hope things will get better now. 🙂  It might be worth keeping her on the pain meds for a couple of days to get her to start eating as soon as possible.

[13Tskhmaster]

UPDATE: Hunny is back from the vet. She had her lower teeth ground down because they were misaligned. My sweet girl has spent much of her time since she got home resting. We have to get her Critical Care every half-hour; she hates the process of taking it. Hunny was given a strong dose of pain meds before she left; I’m nervous for when it wears off. I’m really hoping this is the end of the issue and she starts eating and pooping normally again, but I’m terrified we’re too late or haven’t treated the problem. If there is no improvement from Hunny in 24 hours, we are calling a specialist. That person has the means to examine and trim Hunny’s cheek teeth if necessary, which our local vet can’t do.

Please pray my girl is on the road to recovery! She seems scared of solid food for obvious reasons, and she is trying to get used to her new mouth, but she did drink some water from a dish and pull at a twist tie made of Timothy hay…At the very least, Hunny has stopped making the pained clicking sound with her teeth. Now she’s just exhausted and trying to adjust back to her surroundings. I’m still scared the problem is with her gut, after all. Trying to stay hopeful, but my anxiety keeps making me think and fear the worst…

[DanaNM]

Glad she’s home! So did they not trim her molars? Sorry I’m confused! Did they send you home with a pain med?

CC every half hour is a lot! I’ve always done every 3-4 hours? Just keep up the supportive care, I have a hunch she is through the worst of it. And keep offering her favorite greens. 🙂

 

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[13Tskhmaster]

The vet examined her teeth more closely than she did the other day and noticed the bottom teeth (in the back, not the front teeth, which are fine) were misaligned. She said that could be what was causing Hunny’s pain. She ground those teeth down but said if the problem persists, it could be something that cannot be detected with the naked eye. She said Hunny’s “cheek teeth” could be examined with an x-ray and then treated with anesthesia, but she doesn’t have the means at her practice to do the procedure.

The vet instructed us to use the Critical Care as often as we are; I’m making sure Hunny has fresh water available and will try to feed her some soaked greens later tonight, when she’s had more time to recover. We offered Hunny her favorite treat (a tiny, hay-based cookie) to see what she’d do with it, but she obviously wanted no part of it.

I asked my mother (who picked Hunny up from the vet) what the vet said as far as pain meds. She told me the vet gave Hunny a very strong one before my girl came home, and she said the vet told us to keep using the pain killer we were given the other day, on top of that. The prescription for it (meloxicam) is to give her a preloaded syringe once every 24 hours.

[DanaNM]

I see, so did she go under anesthesia at all for this trim?

I guess I’m still a bit confused because in my mind, the back teeth are all molars, collectively called cheek teeth (whereas the incisors are the front teeth). Maybe she trimmed the premolars but not the back molars? Sorry not trying to interrogate you!

Good you have meloxicam on hand. It tends to be pretty much gone from the body after 12 hours, so some bunnies do better with splitting the dose every twelve hours (NOT giving more, just giving it over 2 doses instead of 1 big one). I noticed my dental bun Moose did better with 2 smaller doses vs 1 big one.

You might even try giving her one of her treats soaked and mashed up. 🙂

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Wick & Fable]

I too am somewhat confused by the vet’s description. My only thought is that perhaps the vet doesn’t have a small enough dremel tool to burr the cheek spurs safely and/or doesn’t have the proper tool to hold open the rabbit’s mouth/cheeks wide enough to reach that angle?

If you see here, this rabbit has spurs that need to be burred down. Rabbit teeth grow up, like standard teeth, but their molars also grow outward, with the spikes going toward the tongue and cheek. In order to burr down those spikes, a vet needs specific tools. If a vet doesn’t see a lot of rabbits, it wouldn’t be surprising they do not have the tool kit.

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[13Tskhmaster]

We are calling the specialist first thing in the morning. I’m so scared for Hunny. I honestly don’t know what teeth were treated, or what aspects of them were. She’s making the pained clicking again and still spits out greens we try to give her. I can’t stop thinking the worst is gonna happen.

[13Tskhmaster]

UPDATE: I just spent three hours with Hunny. She is still clicking, but we snuggled. She last pooped around three hours ago, she took a few sips of water from her dish, and took a couple hesitant nibbles of her greens (though I don’t think she actually ate any of them).

Hunny had a bit of Critical Care (again, we are calling the specialist in the morning) before my family went to bed, and before I started writing this post, I got Hunny to eat an entire favorite hay-based treat! I broke it into tiny pieces, soaked them, and hand-fed her. She still had trouble chewing (licking her lips a lot and primarily using front teeth) but got the whole thing down. So proud of her! Still scared of GI stasis, tooth problems, and blockages, but wish us luck! Thanks again for all your advice and support!

[Hazel]

I’m confused too… molars/back teeth/cheek teeth are all the same I thought.

Anyway, I’m glad you got her to eat some food, that’s great! She’s so lucky to have you there to take care of her. 🙂

[13Tskhmaster]

I just don’t know what to do anymore. We took Hunny to the specialist but weren’t allowed inside with her because of COVID. My family was sent home with the knowledge Hunny would be anesthetized and given an x-ray. Blood work would be done. Hunny would have to spend the night, possibly longer.

Vet said Hunny’s teeth were filed down unnecessarily and too short, but she wasn’t worried because they would grow back. Hunny’s blood was fine, and her teeth were fine. They said something could be wrong now with her jaw even though her skull looked good, and that the x-ray showed a mass in her belly, but they weren’t sure what it was (hair, food since she hasn’t pooped since this morning, something worse). Vet said Hunny wasn’t showing the symptoms of a bunny with a serious blockage, and that masses of hair are usually passed on their own. Wouldn’t Hunny have passed this already if she could alone?

My baby has to spend the night and be observed. Vet says depending on what happens she may have to have a very invasive stomach surgery where they cut into her belly, and that she would take a long time recovering if that happened. We’re hoping for a miracle but I know Hunny will most likely just go back to the way she was before, struggling to eat and such. I’ve really started to lose hope. I’m sorry to be all doom and gloom, but I just don’t see a light at the end of this tunnel. All roads end with me losing my girl, as far as I can see. I need a miracle…

[DanaNM]

Ok, first of all, whoa.

I would NOT go for the invasive surgery. If she pooped, she is not blocked. And my vet usually encourages syringe feeding and fluids to treat fur blocks anyway, to push things through. (for context my vet is amazing and has worked with my rabbit rescue for over 20 years).

Recovery from stasis can be very slow and gradual, and overly aggressive treatments can set things way back. I think it’s very good that you got x-rays to rule out various problems. The new vet doesn’t know what her teeth looked like before.

Please read this article on gut stasis. Important things to note are pain management and gentle supportive care:

http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/ileus.html

A quote to keep in mind:

“It is essential that the caretaker faced with a rabbit in GI stasis be patient, allowing the treatments and medications to work. Rabbits are easily stressed, and excessive handling should be avoided. It may take several days before any fecal pellets are seen, and it may take two weeks or more of motility therapy before the intestine is moving normally again. We know of one case in which a rabbit produced no fecal pellets for 14 days, but finally did respond to gentle, consistent administration of the above treatment regimen. Patience and persistence are key.”

Hunny started eating again before you took her back to the vet, so to me that means you are on the right track. Stasis is painful, so pain management is very important.

Wick’s bunnny has a misaligned jaw that leads to his dental problems, so that is likely what your vet picked up on the x-ray.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[13Tskhmaster]

Thank you for getting back to me and putting things in perspective. I made the mistake of giving up on Hunny when my mom gave me the latest update. I don’t want to do that anymore. I want to do whatever it takes to keep my precious girl in my family. I just want her happy and healthy again.

I’m just very worried about the dental stuff. Vet said it could be TMJ or something. Can that be fixed? How could it happen so suddenly? We’ll pray for the best and see what happens tomorrow. I’ll read the article you linked me to and try my best to hang onto hope.

Thank you again so much! I just hear so many stories about rabbits with GI dying, and my OCD/anxiety cranks my fear with Hunny up to 11 because of it. She’s a part of my family, after all. I love her so much!

[Hazel]

Yeah don’t go for the surgery. The odds for a rabbit to recover from that kind of procedure are small. That should be the very last resort and should only be done if you know for sure there is a complete blockage and after all other options have been exhausted. Be careful with that vet, they seem a bit trigger happy.

She’s had her teeth trimmed, right now she needs some time to get over that and hopefully she will start eating more as she starts to feel better. The x-ray showed no further problems with her teeth so that’s good news. If she does have a misaligned jaw that’s causing the spurs, she will have to get regular trims in the future but other than that she should be fine.

The mass in her stomach could just be food, it’s bound to look a little unusual in there after her not eating/pooping properly, her digestive system is likely moving slower than normal.

[13Tskhmaster]

Neither our regular vet nor the specialist saw spurs on her teeth. We will see what the vet says in the morning. Keeping my fingers crossed I can bring my girl home tomorrow and get her back to normal as soon as possible.

[13Tskhmaster]

UPDATE: Hunny is going to be spending another night at the vet. They always get the Critical Care in her, whereas we always struggled.

I haven’t seen my girl in over 24 hours. The specialist just called to say she has peed a bit but not eaten or pooped. She is completely healthy, aside from the fact she isn’t eating or pooping. Why is this happening? I can’t help but worry trying to figure this out. I don’t want to lose my bunny. She may have to spend the weekend at the vet, and I’m concerned about her stress level.

I showed my mother the article Dana sent me above. She finds it a little confusing; it says get your rabbit to the vet ASAP at one point, then keep her at home to reduce stress at another. It says massage her once, then don’t over-dote on her elsewhere.

The vet hasn’t suggested that crazy surgery yet (we are not in favor of it anyway), but I worry she won’t poop until she is home again (that’s what happened the day of her dental procedure). I don’t know how long this will take. I keep praying Hunny will eat normally again, but she doesn’t. It’s been almost a week since this started. She barely poops, even when she is home.

What could be causing her stasis? The specialist says her problem isn’t dental or her stomach (they never said more about the mass). What is going on? How do we treat Hunny? I have a perfectly healthy bunny who just won’t eat or poop. I’m at such a loss, and the vets seem to be too.

How do those of you who have dealt with GI before stayed sane? How long has it taken you to heal your bunny? What exactly happened, and what did you do? All I hear is about bunnies with GI dying. I have no idea why this is happening and why it all started so suddenly.

[Hazel]

Are they giving her mobility drugs and fluids? Keeping her hydrated is important to get things moving again. They need to be careful not to overdo it with the force feeding. If she’s not pooping at all and they keep filling her up with Critical Care it could make things worse/cause her pain. You want to make sure there’s food in her stomach but if the food isn’t moving through at all, force feeding will do more harm than good at some point.

[13Tskhmaster]

I don’t know what the vet is or isn’t doing, unfortunately. I just know what my parents tell me, since they’re the ones the clinic calls. I tried passing along these questions and concerns, and my parents say to trust the vets to know what they’re doing.

I wish the vet would call more often to keep us posted, but I doubt we will hear from them until tomorrow. It’s almost harder being away from Hunny than having her in the house while dealing with this. She hasn’t been away from our house this long since she was spayed.

[Hazel]

I’m sorry, I know this is vey difficult to deal with. 🙁  I hope you hear from the vet soon. It would be nice if you could go visit her, but I know that’s not an option right now. Thanks for keeping us posted. Sending lots of healing vibes for your little girl.

[13Tskhmaster]

Thank you, Hazel. Vet tech just called. Said Hunny is feisty (in line with her normal personality) but not pooping (they’re worried more about that than not eating). They have ruled out all dental problems and found no significant blockages in her stomach or intestine. They are giving her motility meds twice a day orally starting today. She likely has to spend the weekend. They said they’ll know by the second dose if it is indeed GI stasis, which they’ve seen several successful recoveries from, so let’s pray. If these drugs don’t work, they say ultrasound would be a likely next step, but we aren’t comfortable doing something invasive that would likely glean no results. We’re all scratching our heads and praying. I miss my girl so much. She was given motility meds under the skin by the general vet a few days ago, apparently, but I don’t think the dosage was enough to do anything. Thank you so much for your support!

[Bam]

I’m sorry you are dealing with this. Rabbits can recover from stasis, my rabbit did. It was a long and slow recovery though. For a while he was in critical condition, and he had to have motility drugs (metoclopramide and ranitidine) for a month, plus Metacam. He also got an antibiotic for 2 weeks. The underlying cause for his stasis was bad teeth though. Many things can cause stasis.

The ileus article Dana linked to is one of my favorite articles. If a rabbit hasn’t eaten or pooped in 12 hours, it is an emergency and a vet visit is of need. However, bunny people tend to notice when our rabbits are not eating and pooping long before 12 hours have passed. If that happens, there are a few things you can do yourself to see if you can get things started. The article suggests a few, f ex give simethicone gas drops, try a very, very light tummy massage (as in the Mary S Cotter video), elevate the buns butt so gas can pass more easily, encourage moving about (also to help the bun pass gas), warm the bun up if it sits  very still and the ears feel cold. (I would not try to give a bun an enema though, even though the articles mentions it). If that doesn’t help within like 2 hours, a vet visit is of need. For mild cases it often helps though.

If the bun has been to the vet and recieved a diagnosis and drugs, it is often best to keep contact with the vet over the phone, because trips to the vet are stressful. If the bun deteriorates, the vet will either ask you to come in or stay put. Also, it’s good to fuss over a poorly bun to an extent, but not constantly. For example they too need rest during the night. It can be difficult to know how much fussing is good, but the important thing is to keep the bun warm and feed it every 4 hours or so except during the night unless your vet specifically tell you to.

 

[13Tskhmaster]

Vet tech just called again. Hunny just had her second dose of a motility drug that starts with “r” (don’t recall the name). No poops or eating yet. Vet hopes for “an explosion of poop” over night, but I’m starting to get cynical. Hunny pees fine but refuses the Critical Care when fed by the vet, as well. The tech said the only amount she gets in her system is what she licks off her fur. I worry Hunny won’t get better until she comes home, let alone at all. Scared the vet will recommend something hasty during tomorrow’s update unless Hunny poops by some miracle. My girl has so much life in her but isn’t showing traditional GI stasis symptoms or progression. What the heck is happening?

[Bam]

The motility drug is probably Reglan. It’s a brand name for metoclopramide. It’s very good.

If she’s not eating, there cant be much poop. If they’ve x-rayed her tummy an intestinal blockage would’ve been visible.

Do you know if they ever x-rayed her skull/teeth? I’m thinking of tooth root decay/infection/inflammation. I know they say her teeth is fine, but it can be difficult to say for sure without skull x-rays.

[13Tskhmaster]

Reglan, that’s it! She got two doses orally today, and one under-the-skin a few days ago from our regular vet. No change from Hunny after dose one today, but the vet is hoping dose two yields better results. I doubt it, personally, because this process is starting to defeat me. It’s so hard not having Hunny there to monitor personally.

The vet ruled out all dental problems and made sure to take x-rays of my girl’s skull. She said everything looked fine. Hunny’s first day there, they found a mass in her tummy, but they weren’t sure what it was (Hunny had eaten a few stalks of cilantro, some Critical Care, and a bit of a treat before we took her to her appointment). Since that initial x-ray, they’ve checked Hunny’s stomach again and told us this morning they found no major blockages to speak of. We are completely at a loss and hoping for the best.

[13Tskhmaster]

Still no poops from Hunny, according to the tech who called us a few minutes ago. Hunny is apparently peeing a little and eating the newspaper they put in her cage there, but she’s still not defecating. I’m getting nervous and feeling more and more defeated and at a loss.

When we kept Hunny at our regular vet just for the day last week, she didn’t poop there but did a few sickly ones a few hours after she was brought home. My fear is my girl wants to poop but won’t due to vet stress. We can’t get my girl until tomorrow at the earliest because the vet is closed today. Any ideas/tips? We want to do everything we can to save this bunny, but nothing seems to work. Not having her home to even cuddle with in my stressed moments is killing me…

[Hazel]

Well if the vet can’t get the critical care into her anyway then there really isn’t much point in keeping her there. I think you’re right, the stress of being in a strange place with strange people could be hindering her progress. If there’s nothing the vet is doing that you can’t handle at home, I would take her home as soon as possible. You can keep giving her the Reglan orally yourself, as well as the Critical Care. She should probably also still get pain killers, her teeth could still be sore from the trim, especially if they were indeed trimmed too short. Lastly, she should be getting fluids, which is more tricky but still something you can do at home. The vet just needs to show you how to administer subcutaneous fluids under the skin. If nothing else, you can always give her some water orally with a syringe.

At this point she just needs to start eating, no matter what. You can try to mix the Critical Care with baby food (unsweetened) to make it more appetizing. Or even just feed her the baby food, it’s better than nothing. There are plenty of fruit flavors to choose from. Lots of rabbits love banana or apple, I would just get a few different flavors and see what she likes. Canned pumpkin is an option as well, it has lots of fiber. Just make sure it’s plain and not the pumpkin pie mix. Both can be fed via syringe, although you might need one with a larger opening if the food is too thick.

I hope you can get her home soon. Don’t give up!

[13Tskhmaster]

I will see if I can try those things once my girl comes home. It’s hard not to lose faith during this process. We don’t know if it’s even GI stasis, so it’s tough to see a way out of this, let alone one that’s positive. I still hope and pray and am so thankful for your advice! I’ll do whatever it takes to help Hunny as best I can! I admit I’m worried something bad will happen once she leaves the vet. I feel bad moving her from place to place so frequently…

[DanaNM]

Depending on what part of the gi tract is not functioning, sometimes a combo of motility drugs are needed. Ask about ciscipride, which affects the upper portion of the gi tract. Some bunnies need both reglan and ciscipride.

The keys to treating stasis are: pain management (usually metacam), motility meds, fluids, and syringe feeding. Make sure they send you home with all of these things. I honestly don’t understand the frequency they were having you syringe feed before, which would have added to her stress level, so I would stick to every 4 hours or so trying to get some food into her.

At this point if they can send you home will all of those things (motility drugs, fluids, pain meds), then I would bring her home. The article mentioned the importance of going to the vet initially to get the diagnosis and treatment plan, but the part about not going to the vet was about not rushing back to the vet every day or two during treatment.

You keep saying “nothing is wrong with her”, but healthy bunnies can go into stasis for seemingly no reason sometimes, but most recover. So focus on that for now and then think back to potential triggers.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Wick & Fable]

I will highlight Dana’s last point: Yes, completely healthy rabbits can experience stasis for reasons the owner may never be able to figure out. The best thing to do is exactly what you’re doing, which is being vigilant in observation and being active in getting your rabbit treatment.

 

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[13Tskhmaster]

The vet tech just called with what I consider good news! Hunny did exactly one poop! That doesn’t sound like much, and it’s not ideal, but after days of nothing, I consider it a victory of sorts! My girl is coming home tomorrow. Aside from what Dana mentioned, anything else I should make sure I mention when I have a chance to talk to the vet?

I want to make sure I have everything I need to take care of Hunny once she is back in my arms. I also want to make sure I can call the vet when needed as my situation evolves and do everything correctly and necessary to make my girl well again.

My main concern once Hunny is back other than her pooping is her eating. It was heartbreaking watching her try to chew and not be able to. She refuses Critical Care from everyone, no matter what form it’s in. My hope is once the stasis goes away (please pray it does), her eating will go back to normal. Nothing was more alarming to me than seeing a bunny go from inhaling food in seconds to not touching it at all…

[Hazel]

Yay for poop! I’m glad she’s going home. 🙂

[DanaNM]

Yay for poop! Happy dance! Keep em coming Hunny!

Many rabbits don’t like Critical Care (esp when they are sick), so that’s normal, and honestly when they are putting up a fight it means they still have their spark, so that’s also a good sign. Double check you have the apple banana flavor though, that one is usually the most popular.  This video has a very good technique for syringe feeding: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iGZVYVm5Bg&t=5s

I cared for a very chronically ill bunny for weeks and weeks, so I know how stressful it is to do these things, but I found it helpful to stay as calm as possible (take some deep breaths), and have the mindset that you are giving the bunny something very yummy that will help them feel better. Our anxieties transfer to our bunnies, so if you can have a calm resolved mindset, I do think that bunnies pick up on that.  I also found with that bunny that sometimes he preferred the critical care mixed with plain canned pumpkin, or mixing with a little mashed banana is also OK.

Sudden pain can cause bunnies to suddenly refuse food, and stasis is very painful, no matter the initial trigger for it.

Final thing, this came up in another thread today and thought I would share here. Hydration, along with fiber, is very important for gut motility. You can offer Hunny hay tea to encourage drinking and help give extra nourishment. I’m pretty sure this saved Bun Jovi’s life when he went into stasis over a long weekend about a year ago: https://binkybunny.com/forums/topic/hay-tea-for-anybunny-who-doesnt-drink-enough-especially-for-ill-or-recovering-rabbits/

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[13Tskhmaster]

I woke up this morning to very good news! Hunny did 15 poops over night (and apparently, a few more)! She also nibbled on some romaine! That’s about where my girl was before she went to see the specialist. Hoping she continues to improve!

I am picking Hunny up from the vet and bringing her home this afternoon. Anything I should make sure I ask the vet about/make sure I have before I leave? I won’t actually be allowed inside the clinic because of COVID-19; I think they’re bringing Hunny out to our car…

[Louiethebunny]

Yay! that’s lovely! So glad she’s doing better. Recovery can stasis can take a bit but she’s making good progress.

[13Tskhmaster]

Hunny is home! I’m giving her time to acclimate and get used to her (familiar) surroundings. Here are our post-discharge instructions from the vet:

___________________________________________

1.) Feed as normal. Check daily to be sure Hunny is eating, drinking, and defecating. Monitor waste production closely and force-feed immediately if you notice an issue.

2.) Medications. Meloxicam 1.5 mg/ml – 0.45 ml by mouth once daily x5 days. This medication is due in the morning (6/9/20).

Critical Care – Please feed 20 ml by mouth twice daily until Hunny is eating well on her own.

Metoclopramide – 1mg/ml – 0.7 ml by mouth twice daily x2 more days. This medication improves GI motility.

3.) Special instructions. If Hunny fails to improve with the above treatment, it is recommended she attend <hospital name> for further diagnostics (ultrasound, CT scans).

_________________________________________

We are not out of the woods yet, but I’m hopeful. The vet tech said Hunny was eating a little on her own earlier, but I have yet to see this with my own eyes. My girl is currently resting in her corral, where she has room to run around, access to hay and water, as well as a litterbox. Please send prayers, positive vibes, further tips/advice, etc. Thank you all for your support as I go through this!

[DanaNM]

That’s wonderful news and the plan sounds very good! Keep up the good work! And keep up the pooping and eating Hunny!

During this time don’t be afraid to offer her extra greens frequently if there’s something that she loves (cilantro, basil, mint, romaine, whatever she loves). I’m sure she will be happy to be home. 🙂

 

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[13Tskhmaster]

My girl is eating!!! She seems to be doing it somewhat normally, and we’re keeping the greens coming! Romaine, parsley, cilantro. I’m so happy 😊😊😊😁😁😁

[Hazel]

That’s amazing, I’m so happy for you and Hunny! 😀  She’s doing great!

[13Tskhmaster]

It makes me want to cry with joy lol! It’s such a happy sight 😀 Now if only my girl would poop…I don’t think she’s done any since the 15 the vet tech told us about this morning before we picked her up. Not sure if Hunny made those last night or this morning.

Right now, the plan is to keep praying and hoping for the best, as well as to follow the plan the vet sent us exactly. It’s so hard for me not to spend every waking moment I have with Hunny, but I want her to have some semblance of a normal life now to assist her recovery, and I feel doting on her too much could make her sense something is wrong and trigger the stasis again…

I told my family once Hunny is all better (hope it’s going that way), we need to evaluate and see what could have caused this. Anyways, thank you all so much for your support and wisdom! I’ll keep the updates coming.

[13Tskhmaster]

Hunny did a lot of normal-looking poops last night and ate some more of her greens, or at least nibbled them. She started grinding her teeth like she was in pain again, though not as sharp as before her stay at the vet, and I’m wondering if that was her pain meds wearing off…

So far this morning, my girl has nibbled on one thing (possibly a strawberry top or a piece of romaine) but spent most of her time hiding in her tube. I don’t know if she senses it’s Critical Care/meds time, or if she’s just spooked  by something. She normally comes running out of the tube when I go into her corral to see her, but today she stayed hidden. I’m scared my girl will regress, but I know I also need to give things time and have patience. I don’t want to think Hunny will be dependent on her meds the rest of her life. Idk, I’m just worried because things seemed so promising yesterday…

[Louiethebunny]

She sounds like she’s doing fine, just a little stressed, which is to be expected. The recovery can take a while, so patience, although hard, is key.

[DanaNM]

Recovery from stasis can occur in “fits and starts” so just keep with the treatments. She sounds like she is for sure responding, so just keep it up. Pooping and eating is excellent!

Some buns do better with their metacam dose split into 2 doses every twelve hours, so you might check with your vet to see if you can try that.

She also might need a longer course of motility med than just a couple days. I would really resist doing a lot more diagnostics right away. If she still isn’t pooping normally when you are done with the motility med I would push the vet to prescribe a longer course.

Have you been giving her tummy rubs? As the get gets moving again gas can occur which can cause a lot of pain, but tummy rubs can help a lot. Massaging (gently!) along the spine can also stimulate the gi tract.

There is a feedback between pain, gut slowing, and gas. Slowing causes gas, which causes pain, which causes more slowing. So gentle supportive care as her gut comes back online is key. It’s been described as “like trying to jump start a train”. It takes slow and steady care to get it going again, but she does seem to be on the right track so keep it up!

 

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[13Tskhmaster]

Thank you all so much! Hunny hasn’t eaten anything yet today (as far as I know). She has a fabric tube she likes to sleep in and has spent the day hiding in there. It kinda makes me nervous to see that. It’s hard to be patient lol. She has done a few poops in the tube; they are normal-sized but bean-shaped or ovals…

EDIT: Forgot to answer your question. I am rubbing her belly to the extent I can, trying to gently bring things toward her rear. It’s tough to know if I’m doing it correctly. Where exactly near the spine should I rub? I can only reach her belly easily when she is in her relaxed position (sprawled out or flopped), so the spine sounds easier to reach. How exactly does a spine rub stimulate the gut?

Also, I read recently broccoli can cause gas even though my vet told me it was safe. Is that true?

[DanaNM]

Broccoli can cause gas in some buns. Pretty much anything in the cabbage family (which includes kale, broccoli, cauliflower, mustard greens, arugula) can, but some are more likely to than others (arugula isn’t really known to but I do think one of my buns was sensitive to it). Cabbage itself, cauliflower, and broccoli are the worst gas culprits.

For my sensitive tummy bun I stuck with carrot tops, romaine, cilantro, and dandelion, and never gave kale. That said, kale has tons of fiber and nutrition, and bunnies love it. They all just have different tolerances for things.

I tend to give tummy rubs before and after giving meds, plus if they will tolerate it other times. This video has a great demonstration: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbyC6CWbm5M

I head the spine trick from one of the leads at the rescue I volunteer at, who learned it from a pet acupressure therapist. Apparently it stimulates the nervous system around the gut leading to more gut peristalsis. I have no idea if it actually helps, but honestly it makes me feel better to be doing something to “help”. There is a zone kind of in between the mid-back and hind-legs that you can just very gently massage (with a finger on each side of the spine). I used to do this for my chronic tummy issue bun and he would almost always go poop right afterward.

Getting back to your questions about initial triggers for all of this, is she going through a heavy shed? Molting can trigger stasis in some buns, sometimes almost like clockwork. When Bun Jovi went into stasis last year this was the only thing we could identify as a cause, so I just had to up my grooming game. Lots of other members have reported stasis going along with molting as well (and since you mentioned she had some hairy poops I do wonder if it played a role).

Other things to consider are sensitivity to certain veggies or pellets. I recall one member who’s bunny would go into stasis if they ate a single brown mint leaf. If you end up suspecting veggies as the culprit, you can try an elimination diet (once she has recovered) where you restrict her to just hay and then slowly re-introduce veggies and/or pellets.

 

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[13Tskhmaster]

Hunny and I had another snuggle. I got more kisses. My girl still can’t seem to eat hay, even though I watched her try desperately. It’s like she can’t bite it or something. I don’t know. It’s hard and disheartening to watch…

[13Tskhmaster]

Today was such a bad day progress-wise. Hunny hates taking her medicine and we can barely get any Critical Care in her, no matter what we try. She didn’t eat anything today and only did a few poops. She tried eating a little piece of carrot but spat all the little pieces out. It’s the same thing she did with her hay. I’m so scared by this regression, and so is my family. The vet is just as much at a loss as we are and said we should see that other facility if Hunny isn’t better after a week. That makes me panic because my family doesn’t want to put Hunny through any more trauma, and the only option I see is losing my girl unless by some miracle this goes away.

It was a day of stress, worry, and arguing at my house. I read my family recommendations from this forum every day, and my mother considers trying them, but my sister being a nurse refuses to take advice from an internet source and will only listen to the vet. That deters my mom and I’m left feeling powerless and desperate. Why won’t my bunny eat? Why won’t she poop or take her Critical Care like a good girl? I feel like I’m right back where I started. I’ve tried being patient, but this is too taxing on me, my family, and my nerves. I don’t want to give up, but nothing I’m doing is working.

[13Tskhmaster]

Quick update: I snuggled with Hunny for a tiny bit this afternoon and got some adorable little kisses 🙂 She then went back inside her tube, and only just emerged to nibble on the top of a piece of broccoli. That’s the only thing she’s eaten today aside from a strawberry top (the leaves and the tiniest bit of surrounding fruit), as far as I can tell. I realize it can cause gas, but isn’t it better Hunny eat that than nothing at all?

I tried petting Hunny along her spine and rubbing gently along the sides of it. Not sure that did anything. I’ll have to see if I can find that “sweet spot” you mentioned. I also have limited access to her belly just in front of her back legs, but that’s all I can access unless she sprawls out, as I said earlier.

Hunny’s lack of eating and poops compared to yesterday has me worried; we’re dreading med-giving time because she tries to hide inside her burrito, gets super-stressed, and then dribbles Critical Care all over herself. She eats only half of a 20 ml dose then gets a bit more by cleaning herself off.

Ironically, Hunny is not shedding heavily right now. She does groom herself a lot (especially since all this stasis and vet visit stuff started), but we have always tried to be vigilant with brushing her to avoid the problems we’re currently dealing with. Poops Hunny has made since she came home (and even before she left) were not hairy or pearl strings.

Hunny’s diet consists of hay, parsley, cilantro, romaine, carrots (in moderation), and a small piece of pineapple because I had heard the juice helps with hair digestion, and we know Hunny (being part-lionhead) sheds a lot. It’s disheartening to me we took all these precautions and she’s still suffering for some reason. She gets hay-based treats sometimes, but we try to limit how many we give her.

Hunny’s teeth were perfect according to the specialist, and it turns out (they said) we didn’t need to have our regular vet file them down. I’m worried they’ll grow back at some weird angle and cause my girl more harm, but we’re not at a stage where we can know that for sure right now. It’s just hard loving this rabbit as much as I do. I can’t help but worry about her, and I’ll likely continue to worry until she’s back to her old self, inhaling every piece of food we give her and being a little poop machine…

Considering you said curing stasis has lots of starts and stops, I hope this is just an off-day for my girl. I remember being so happy to see her eat last night, and now she’s barely doing anything. The only poops she’s done are the oval-shaped ones I found in her tube (she’s litterbox-trained). I’m scared she’s gonna regress now that she’s home…Stupid anxiety, I guess.

[13Tskhmaster]

LATEST UPDATE: My mother sat with Hunny for a while and managed to get her to eat a piece of romaine and six pieces of cilantro (Hunny’s apparent favorite). My girl did a bunch of almost-normal poops and tried to eat some hay but couldn’t get it in her. It took considerable effort on Hunny’s part, but she also ate one of her favorite hay-based treats (pre-whatever she has, she’d inhale these like her veggies).

Hunny hasn’t eaten or drank anything since. She also hasn’t pooped since. She is affectionate and perky. She keeps flopping, giving me ample chances to rub her belly. I go near the base of her legs and gently push backwards towards her rear. One of the times, I could swear Hunny’s tummy felt a little harder, and she did not like when I touched there, so I stopped. I’m concerned about gas in Hunny’s tummy.

I just feel like I’m stuck in a no-win scenario. Hunny makes progress, regresses, makes progress, regresses. The treatment seems more like a coping mechanism to me than a solution, and the way Hunny keeps grooming herself, I fear she’ll do nothing but swallow fur.

Any particular reason my girl suddenly has a hard time with solids and hay? It’s tough because she can’t eat what I know is the best thing for her. Any home remedies for the gas? I try belly massages like in that video Dana sent but don’t feel like I am doing them right. Hunny usually doesn’t like people touching her belly but seemed to tonight, so maybe I am? I just want my girl better and don’t know what to do beyond the vet’s post-discharge care plan. I worry about a mass or blockage in my girl’s tummy now that I’ve felt that less-doughy part of her belly…

[13Tskhmaster]

Hunny definitely seems to be in pain. She is grinding her teeth like crazy. I just rubbed her tummy some more, and two poops came out, crushed-looking (this happened a couple more times tonight, now that I think about it).

I just got Hunny to take another big drink of water. She kept slurping it up, making little gurgle noises and is passing gas, which I have never heard before. Hunny’s tummy is harder to the touch since she started drinking…

[13Tskhmaster]

As soon as Hunny finished drinking and passing gas, she gobbled up six more pieces of cilantro. She may have done more poops too. She only did a penny-sized speck of pee (abnormal, even since stasis started), so I’m concerned about that…

[Louiethebunny]

is she consuming enough water? if so, I would give her a little bit more time and check again for urine. On my bun’s first day home he didn’t pee or poop at all, and finally, the next day, he went as normal, so I would just give Hunny a little more time then check back with her. This situation must be extremely stressful, and patience is key. It does sound like Hunny is making very good progress, and I’m happy to hear she’s eating.

[DanaNM]

The ups and downs do sound like her tummy is coming back online. I understand how stressful it is to see them up and down like this. 🙁 Come on Hunny, stop stressing your mom out!

She may have a hard time with chewing if her teeth were filed too much (they might be sensitive). Sounds like she is responding to being fussed over, so by all means keep fussing over her. Gas is super painful so keep up the tummy rubs and pain meds. Gas can also make poops weird looking.

I talked about Hunny’s situation during my shift at the shelter today, and the shelter lead agreed to keep up the care you are currently giving. I do think it may be worth trying a combo of motility meds or at least a longer course if she isn’t pooping more regularly once this round is done (only 2 days is fairly short).

 

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[13Tskhmaster]

Thank you guys so much! I’m glad it sounds like things are going in the right direction, to you! Makes me feel a little better 🙂 Dana, thank you so much for checking with the shelter lead! That means a lot 😀

So yeah, today was mostly an off-day until Hunny ate for my mom, passed gas, and then ate for me. I gave her plenty of fresh water, but there has been no significant activity this past hour, and now I’m headed to bed. I worry about Hunny’s gas troubling her while I’m sleeping, and I’m concerned about asking the vet for more help. They pretty much kicked us to the curb after Hunny went home, telling us to go somewhere else if she doesn’t improve after seven days…

The worst parts of this are waiting, seeing my girl struggle, and feeling like things will never be normal again with Hunny’s eating and digestion…

Should I be worried about how much Hunny is grooming herself lately? It seems like she is licking herself every time I turn around. She’s ingesting tons of fur and making things worse, for all I know (though she’s not shedding right now).

I love my girl and am so proud of her and thankful for her. I just feel so powerless dealing with this. Knowing she probably didn’t need her teeth filed after all, I feel especially awful and worry we will have problems in the future/a tougher time curing stasis as a result 🙁 I know rabbit teeth grow fairly constantly, but what about the molars and such?

[DanaNM]

Grooming is actually a good sign! Sick bunnies won’t groom themselves, so the fact that she’s grooming means she’s feeling better.

If you’re worried about her tonight there is no shame in checking on her throughout the night. I even slept on the floor with Bun Jovi when he had stasis, but that was before we had been able to get to the vet (he got sick on a Sat night and our ER vet doesn’t see rabbits, so we had to get in through till Monday morning).

If you aren’t already it can be helpful to keep a log of pooping, eating, meds. Improvement can be so slow having a record for yourself does help.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[13Tskhmaster]

Another frustrating day so far, today. Hunny did a few miscellaneous poops in her corral, but that’s it. She won’t eat, save for a little bit of a strawberry top she nibbled. We can’t get Critical Care in her, no matter what we try (we even sprinkled some dry on her favorite foods to see if she’d eat it; no dice). Hunny can’t seem to eat hay or leaves from the strawberries; she puts them in her mouth, wheels them around a bit, then drops them. They either fall out as she “chews,” or she spits them out. She’s been doing that since before her stay at the vet. Watching it increases my feeling of being at a loss, frustration, et cetera. I don’t know what to do aside from wait for one of those “miracle times” when Hunny decides to go back to normal and actually eat. I’d give anything to get my girl back to normal. We’ve had a few snuggles, and I’ve gotten some kisses, but otherwise, my girl sits in a “loaf” position in the corner or hides in her tube.

I would call the vet to ask for additional advice, but like I said earlier, the specialist basically said we are on our own. I would call our normal vet, which is better than nothing, but she certainly isn’t a specialist. Our only option at home is to wait this out and help Hunny to the extent we can. It’s taking its toll on us, though. The specialist said take Hunny somewhere they can do CT scans and ultrasounds, but we don’t want to traumatize our girl like that. We’d like to think we can solve this problem and get our girl back. She HAS made some poops that look normal and HAS eaten, but it’s still not frequent enough or energetic enough to be normal. That’s what’s frustrating and hurting me the most.

[Hazel]

Recovering from stasis is a slow process, it will take a while for her body to get back to normal. She is eating at times, and pooping which is great. I  know it’s hard, but try to stay patient. 🙂

You said you’re still having trouble syringe feeding her. Have you tried the baby food? I really think it might help get the CC into her (or even the meds, if you’re having trouble with those). She might even want to eat some baby food throughout the day, since she’s still struggling with chewing.

If you’re worried about gas, there’s always Simethicone, it works very well with my bun. He often gets gassy when he’s shedding. One or two doses usually does the trick.

[13Tskhmaster]

Thank you, Hazel 🙂

We have not tried that, yet, no. Hunny takes her meds without much issue. She just HATES the Critical Care, for some frustrating reason. She’s supposed to have 20 ml twice a day, and we’re lucky if we get in 10. What kinds of the food would you recommend/are safe for bunnies? Hunny is so used to the same old foods that I worry she won’t try anything new, regardless of taste, texture, et cetera. Will the chewing issue go away? I’d hate to think we’ve done more harm than good trying to solve what we thought was a dental issue…

I pray my girl recovers, I really do. With my anxiety, it’s just hard she doesn’t recover as fast as I’d like, especially with all we are doing to help. Sometimes I just feel so powerless. I can’t help but worry or fear the worst sometimes, you know?

The next time I call my vet (depends on how well Hunny does with pooping, now that her motility meds are gone), I’ll ask about the Simethicone. I don’t know if gas is even a problem today for Hunny; I feel like I’m improvising with her whenever we’re together. Sometimes, my improv works, and she eats or drinks water. Other times, she shows no interest and I’m left feeling useless.

[13Tskhmaster]

Since my last post from this morning, I’ve seen Hunny eat three strawberry tops. She struggled to actually chew them, and pieces kept falling out of her mouth, but she eventually got them all down, save for the leaves (she had no problem eating them prior to whatever she has now). One strawberry top even had powdered Critical Care on it! Not sure Hunny realized it or not; she definitely didn’t fall for it a second time… Around 2:00 PM, my girl had fun playing with an empty plastic bag while supervised. She nibbled a bit of cilantro (but couldn’t chew or swallow it) and gave me snuggles, as well as plenty of kisses.

My girl just took her medicine for the evening; she took one for pain and one for motility, but the motility drug is all gone, now. We were only given two days’ worth, but that’s because Hunny had already had four days’ worth while at the specialist’s office last weekend. I worry my girl will go back to being unable to poop without the meds; we will of course call our vet for more, if necessary, but how long should we wait between poops to do so? Some places say 6-8 hours (before it’s an emergency), while others say 10-12…

I hope Hunny will eat some more for me this evening, but I have a sinking feeling she won’t. I plan to give her plenty of belly rubs, but it’s hard for me to distinguish now between her “in pain” teeth grinding and “happy” teeth grinding. I don’t want to cause Hunny further stress. Speaking of which, it helps me at night to sleep near Hunny’s corral, which I’ve done from time-to-time even when she isn’t sick. I’ve read, however, that doing abnormal things can add to bunny stress and make things worse/slow recovery. Should I do this? Hunny doesn’t seem to care either way, but I still worry about her…Man, do I wish this was something that would go away in a matter of days, rather than weeks. I wish I could feel like things were going in a positive direction the way you all sense and feel like I’m making a difference in my girl’s recovery…

[DanaNM]

The chewing behavior is so strange. I do still wonder if it’s because her teeth were over-filed though, even though I guess you did somewhat see that before all of this started?

I’m assuming you are still giving her critical care? Are there any other exotics vets in your area that could give you a second opinion? Perhaps the most recent vet you saw could share her x-rays and everything with them?

I don’t think spending extra time with her will cause her any stress, even if it’s not her normal routine.

For the second vet that wanted to do more diagnostics, did they mention potential things they suspected? I think it would be good to call them and have a conversation with the vet. You might mention alternate motility medications and ask them what they think about her chewing.

Even if more diagnostics are recommended, I would personally want to get her gut more stable before doing anything invasive.

Sorry you are going through this, it’s so frustrating not knowing what’s wrong and watching them in pain. 🙁

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[13Tskhmaster]

Yeah, the chewing behavior is really scaring me. The specialist told us Hunny’s teeth didn’t need to be filed down after all, but she wasn’t concerned about that because the teeth would grow back. Our normal vet is the one who did the filing; she said Hunny’s teeth were fine during her initial exam but later decided to file them as a precaution during a second visit. That was back when you guys were suspecting Hunny’s issue was a dental one, rather than related to her stomach. I feel so guilty and worry about Hunny’s teeth, moving forward.

We are still giving Hunny Critical Care, but she hates it. No matter what we try, she refuses it (even though I guess she did eventually eat the coated strawberry top we offered her). There are no other exotics vets close by; the one we took Hunny to last weekend said if my girl isn’t better in a week, to contact a place a good hour from our house, where they would subject her to CT scans, ultrasounds, etc. My mother has no intention of putting Hunny through that.

Should I ere on the side of caution and sleep away from Hunny? I was only doing it to make myself feel better, but I don’t want to unintentionally do harm instead of good, you know?

I never really got to talk to the specialist, only techs who weren’t the nicest. We were given a care plan to follow, but that’s it. The place was so strict with its patient interactiveness due to COVID-19. No conversations could really be had. We were just given Hunny back and sent on our way. We couldn’t even enter the building. I could call my normal vet again, where they have a doctor experienced with rabbits (but not a specialist), though I worry because she’s the one who filed Hunny’s teeth…

I don’t want to subject Hunny to anything invasive, either. It just kills me to watch her struggling to eat and use the bathroom. Just when I think we’re getting somewhere, she takes two steps back. Sometimes the opposite. It’s doing a number on my emotions and stress levels. I just want my girl to be well again, and it’s the stupid negative voice in my head that says the worst will happen. My anxiety is almost a bigger enemy to me right now than the stasis…

Would it help if I could somehow show you videos of how Hunny was chewing prior to her vet visits, or are my descriptions clear enough? I had taken some footage to show the vets, and they still do a good job showing what my girl’s eating is like, even though she has spent time at the specialist’s…

[DanaNM]

That’s so frustrating about your experiences with the vets. I’ve heard from more than one person about similar experiences with vets during this covid crisis.

Getting even 10 ml of CC in her is good, so just keep at it. Hazel’s suggestion about baby food is a good one, canned unsweetened pumpkin is also good to try. Some bunnies really love it.

Sleeping with her or not is really up to you. You know her best, so if you feel more comfortable giving her some space, do that. My Bun Jovi is VERY needy and had run away from his bonded mate when he was sick, and she wasn’t comforting him, so I was not about to leave him to sleep alone in the state he was in. He also had a low temp and was super dehydrated so I was working to keep him warm and monitoring him very closely.

I’ve been having a lot of conversations with friends and other animal folks about our pets during the current state of things in the world right now, and SO many people are having weird issues with their pets. My friend’s dog randomly had a seizure, her other one randomly had diarrhea, my cat decided to just throw up all day two days ago, and our vet is not taking elective procedures but yet they are completely booked up. I think the common thread is that our animals are really in tuned with their humans, and our stress and anxiety can transfer to them.

At this point you are doing the best you can for her, so try to focus on the improvements she’s made, and create a calm presence when you are around her. Deep slow breathing to lower your heart rate and talking in a soothing voice to her before and after you give her food and medication will help you both.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[13Tskhmaster]

I just wish there was something to relieve my worry. Some sign that things were getting better and that I was making a difference. At the end of the day, the best comfort my family can give is “We’re giving her the best care we can, and that’s all we can do.” It’s not exactly comforting when I feel like there’s more I should be doing. That said, I’ll see what I can do about the pumpkin and Hazel’s suggestion. With the COVID crisis, it’s been harder for us to get groceries like normal…

I like to think my being near Hunny offers her some comfort. Unlike my first rabbit, Lucy (who passed away a few years ago), she does not have another bunny to keep her company. My mother, father, sister, and I are all my girl has. She is super-affectionate for this reason and loves cuddles. I spend as much time with her as I can, for that reason. I read it’s important for bunny recovery to be with friends/mates/etc. in that article you sent me. I also remember the same article saying to give bunnies their own space to heal…Being with my girl is just as soothing for me; the cuddles and laughs I get (Hunny behaves normally, overall, despite all this) are lifesavers for me. Just hearing Hunny scuffle around as I fall asleep on the couch outside her corral soothes me. I like knowing she’s there.

I wonder if the COVID stress is playing a part in this. I really hope it’s not, but stranger things have happened. I know for a fact my mom is more stressed than normal, being a teacher. She has to spend her day doing Zoom meetings, online teaching, et cetera. She has to spend all her time worrying about the coming school year and the one that’s ending in a couple weeks, and that’s affecting the rest of our family. It could be Hunny is picking up on that, but I hope not. Are those dogs and cats you mentioned okay?

I always try to be myself around Hunny. I don’t know if she senses how much I’m hurting inside through it all, though. We have a special, deep love and understanding of each other, or so I like to think, so I don’t know. I hate not knowing how this will go. I’d like to think I can cure my girl of this, but something about hearing “We’re doing all we can” just rubs me the wrong way for some reason. It’s like we’re just waiting for things to go wrong, and growing complacent. I just want my normal happy girl back. I pray I reach that point, and I pray I get there soon!

To take things one worry at a time, my biggest one right now is she’ll stop pooping now that the motility meds are gone. That and her chewing. It’s a hesitant, scared chewing that ceased to be after I helped Hunny pass gas last night…For 10 glorious minutes, she was her old self again, inhaling her cilantro and looking for more. I want so much to see that again!

[Hazel]

I would stick with Gerber baby food, I’ve tried Beech-Nut from Walmart before but it’s not pureed as finely as the Gerber so it’s harder to get in and out of the syringe (although if she really likes it she might just eat it without a syringe). Fruit will probably be the most enticing to her, apple or banana is well liked by most rabbits, but you know her preferences best. 🙂 You can always get a couple of different flavors to try out. The important thing is to make sure it’s unsweetened.

Simethicone is over the counter, so you don’t need the vet to provide it for you. It’s marketed as baby gas drops, I get mine at Walmart. The great thing about Simethicone is that it doesn’t get absorbed by the body, it just coats the intestines and breaks up the gas. So you don’t really have to worry about overdosing. I usually give 1ml every hour. But as I said, most of the time it only takes one or two doses. Does she press her stomach down onto the floor? Rabbits often do that if they have an upset stomach/gas. Oscar also kind of sucks his cheeks in when he’s in pain, making his face look narrow, but I don’t know if that’s typical or just something weird he does. 😕

[Hazel]

About the chewing, it could just be that her teeth are still sore, or there might be some sores in her mouth from before her teeth got trimmed, but I guess the vet would have checked to make sure there were no cuts/injuries inside her mouth. I’m not sure why the specialist says that she didn’t need a trim, since they didn’t see what her teeth looked like before?

[13Tskhmaster]

It’s frustrating because you’re making what I think are very good suggestions, but my family always resists trying them. They want to strictly follow the specialist’s care plan, and take it from there. I worry that’s not enough, and an argument ensues, adding to Hunny’s stress and mine. When I mention the baby food, my family says “Hunny has to get used to using her teeth again and won’t if we only ever give her soft things.” I mention the Simethicone, they say “If Hunny needed it, the vet would prescribe it. Next time we call the vet, we’ll see what she says.” I then have to give up to maintain peace.

I have been having trouble lately discerning Hunny’s normal behavior from pain-induced ones. For example, she loves being petted and “purrs” by grinding her teeth. She is in pain, so she grinds her teeth a different way. I give her a belly rub to break up potential gas, and she grinds her teeth in a way that sounds like both “purring” and pain. For another example, she often rests in a “meatloaf” position in the corner of her corral. She has done that ever since she was little. Now, however, I’m reading that a “meatloaf” position means pain. I worry about everything Hunny does now, even when I see her sprawled out in a relaxed position. It’s awful and really drives me nuts, it’s so confusing.

Hunny’s first exam, the vet checked her teeth and said they were fine. The second visit, the vet said Hunny’s back teeth needed to be filed down. I don’t get why the specialist said that didn’t need to happen, but now that it has, it just creates more worry in me…

[Wick & Fable]

It’s tough. I wouldn’t be too concerned about her teeth being filed down, even if unnecessary. They will grow back, just like human finger nails. If her jaw is aligned, nothing should prevent them from growing in a weird, warped way. If you think about it, the only thing that can change the direction a tooth grows is moving the tooth itself somehow? A routine file should not do permanent harm.

You’re in a tough situation. Some things I call to mind:

1. Have you tried forcing the critical care at times she’d usually eat/be hungry? For example, my Fable will not eat any veggies unless it’s the evening.  She’ll completely reject them until then. Also, trying to interact during a rabbit’s typical sleeping time may increase that resistance as well.

2. It’s hard to remember when you’re literally counting every poop, but remember that a healthy rabbit is not actually pooping and eating 24/7. A large part of our active day, they are sleeping. They’re not really eating, pooping, or peeing during a big chunk of time.

3. … it will be hard to strike a healthy balance of vigilance and concern for #1 & #2 when it is vital to be seeing poop and eating during recovery, but just keep these in mind.

4. It’s a stressful time and it’s hard not to emote that as you’re trying to force feed. Do your best to stay calm and that will help set you up for success, as much as can be had.

5. Take this with a grain of salt, but for the chewing behavior, are there circumstances where it doesn’t seem to align with painful body cues? My Wick actually does the painful teeth click/chew when he’s annoyed with me.

6. Day to day observations are important, as well as the big picture. If the day to day is overwhelming and welcoming unpleasant and unproductive thoughts, focus on the big picture. Have you seen instances of improvement? Just like with a human recovering from something major, the trajectory may ebb and flow. It may be  a sign of something poor, or it could simply be recovery taking its course.

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[13Tskhmaster]

1.) Before this all started, Hunny always got veggies in the morning and at night (two servings a day). We try to do the same with the Critical Care.

2.) Thank you for bringing this to my attention. You’re exactly right. It’s just tough when we have to police Hunny and monitor her every action. What could be normal “I’m not hungry right now, so I don’t want food” seems like “I have GI-stasis and can’t/won’t eat because something is wrong with me” to us. It’s very difficult to tell the difference, for everyone in my family.

3.) I will try my hardest.

4.) We always try to keep in mind how important it is to be calm and confident when syringe-feeding Hunny. We put her in a burrito, hold her firmly but gently, talk to her, et cetera. Yet whenever the syringe comes, my girl hides away like an ostrich with its head in the sand. Her stress feeds into ours, and it becomes a very unpleasant cycle. I wish there was a way to get the Critical Care into Hunny without the syringe. It’s the apple-banana flavor (two of her favorite things, as fruit, at least), but she either hates the smell or taste and refuses to take it, no matter what we try. Hunny gives us less trouble with the meds, for some reason.

5.) It’s like Hunny forgot how to eat. She tries to put food in her mouth like normal, works it around a bit, then it either falls out or she spits it out, and the food looks as if it was never touched. It’s like all Hunny has in her mouth is gums. It’s heartbreaking to watch and I wish I could fix it.

6.) Both you and Dana have reminded me now there will be “on-days” and “off-days.” Thank you for this. My father reminded me a week ago tonight, Hunny wasn’t even pooping, and now she is. My fear there, though, is that’s because of the motility meds she had, and those are gone now…

[Wick & Fable]

If she is willing to eat a strawberry treat, have you tried giving that to her following critical care time? So maybe treating it like learning. I did that with my Wick. He always got a treat after medication administration. Trying to get a connection to a “reward” might make her more willing to take it and/or reduce stress during, over repeated associations.

I experience the same head buried in towel withdrawal from Wick, which is why I don’t burrito him, haha.

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[13Tskhmaster]

It’s worth a shot! I’ll try that next time 🙂

[LBJ10]

Do her lips appear normal? Nothing drooping? One thought I had was she may be having trouble controlling her mouth. If that were true though, it would suggest there was damage to the nerves somehow. I’m assuming this isn’t the case. I’m just thinking about my own experience.

Food dropping out of their mouth doesn’t necessarily mean tooth pain. It can mean stomach pain as well. I do wonder though if something happened to the inside of her mouth during the filing. The teeth themselves could be sensitive, but there could be cuts or sores inside the mouth as well. This may or may not be the result of the teeth themselves. Damage could have occurred during the filing.

What about willow leaves? Bunnies that are in pain or do not feel well will often eat willow leaves. And willow leaves are a natural pain reliever.

[13Tskhmaster]

Yes, Hunny’s lips appear normal. It’s funny you mention stomach pain influencing food dropping out of their mouth, because last night, I helped my girl pass gas, and she ate five or six pieces of cilantro with no trouble whatsoever. It was like she was normal again.

Neither our regular vet nor the specialist found anything wrong with Hunny’s mouth or teeth (no cuts, bruises, etc.). For some reason, the specialist felt the need to tell my mother we didn’t have to get Hunny’s teeth filed after all, and that they were done a little too short for her liking. At the time, however, we were trying to prevent/solve a problem that could have resulted in the stasis. We didn’t know any better. When the chewing problems first started (before Hunny got specialized vet treatment for stasis), people here thought it was a dental issue, as well.

How exactly does one obtain willow leaves? Hunny has never had them, and honestly, I’ve never heard of that as an option. Are they something I could find at a grocery store, for instance?

[Louiethebunny]

I’m not sure about buying them in-store, but there are many places to buy them online, which may take a little too long to arrive. Pet stores nearby may sell willow wreaths for small animals, you could check out websites of pet stores near you.

[LBJ10]

Don’t beat yourself up! At the beginning, her symptoms were pointing toward the most logical cause: tooth issues. It made sense to have her teeth checked and filed if necessary. I wouldn’t think a little filing, even if it wasn’t needed, would hurt anything. As others have said, the teeth DO grow back. So likely no harm done in the long run. Whether or not her teeth are bothering her now isn’t clear. And yes, I have observed many times food (particularly treat items) being accepted and then dropped on the floor. The cause was stomach discomfort. I know that sounds weird, but perhaps taking the treat is a reflex and then it’s like “oh wait, my stomach hurts, I don’t want to eat this”.

Dried willow leaves and branches are often sold online. Sometimes you can find them at pet supply stores. If you’re not in a RHVD area, you can forage for willow. You just need to make certain it hasn’t been sprayed or treated with anything.

 

[jerseygirl]

The Binky Bunny store sells dried willow. : )

Just some additional ideas with food: chopping some greens finely but also offering like you have been (ie. the cilantro) as she might prefer it that way. Fresh grass might be manageable for her or could be offered chopped also.

Would you be able to find some pure hay pellets? For example  Usually given as is but they can be softened with just enough water that they dont become too mushy and off-putting. Alternatively, some hay cakes that are broken down for her. Even try put a bowl near her of the really fine hay that often falls to bottom of the bag or box. Or buy a small bag of hay chaff from a feed store.

She might manage some rolled oats. If she goes for them, you could put some in with the fine hay “chaff” to encourage her eating that also.

 

[Bam]

How much does Hunny weigh?(Approximately, if you dont know exactly). I’m thinking about the Metacam dosage. Rabbits metabolize metacam very quickly. From what I can see, the dose she has been prescribed is 0.45 ml of 1.5 mg/ml strenght Metacam. This gives 0.675 mg metacam. A bun can have 0.3 – 1.5 mg metacam per kilo bodyweight, once or twice per day. Maybe she would do better on a higher dose?

Metacam is not just a painkiller, it is also an anti inflammatory, meaning it helps bring down inflammation. Sometimes you need a higher dose initially, and when inflammation has been brought down, you can give a lower maintenance dose or phase the Metacam out, depending on the nature of the underlying issue.

(Metacam is however somewhat hard on the tummy, and for longer term use, it’s recommended you combine it with a stomach-protecting drug. Sucralfate or famotidine are bunny-safe stomach protecting drugs.)

[13Tskhmaster]

Hunny was three pounds, three ounces when she was weighed last week.

Still no change from my girl. She couldn’t bite her favorite hay cookie, and when I broke it down soaked like last week, she almost choked on a piece wheeling it around in her mouth.

Hunny tried so hard to eat hay and veggies this morning. We would get nibbles, or she would just spit out what we gave her. She ate the soft flesh on a strawberry top, which my sister hand-fed her. I have yet to verify myself, but my sister said Hunny seemed to have an easier time eating when her head was positioned upwards. It’s like my girl wants to eat but can’t. She’s forgotten how to chew, only has gums left, or something like that. That’s how it looks watching her try to eat. It’s heartbreaking and scary. We are treating stasis, but I don’t even know if that’s what my girl has.

[Hazel]

I totally understand your family’s point of view, wanting to trust your vet rather than listening to strangers on the internet. They’re thinking “the vet is a professional, she should know best”. However, the vet is still just one person with one opinion, and she doesn’t know everything. For example, there are many rabbits who die every year because vets keep prescribing Frontline, even though it is common knowledge in the rabbit community that it is deadly to them. I went through a similar situation with my ferret a while ago. He has Insulinoma (cancer of the pancreas which is very common in old ferrets). The only options the vet gave me were surgery to remove the tumors or put him to sleep. I wasn’t going to put him through surgery at his age, so the only option left to me would have been to put him down, IF I hadn’t done my OWN research. But I did. Hours of research online to figure out a way to help him. I discovered that a lot of ferret owners in my situation gave their ferrets a medication that helped tremendously. I brought it up to the vet, and he just looked kind of confused and finally said “Yeah, I guess we could try that. “Another thing I had found out during my research was that the medication works for around 12 hours, so one should administer it twice a day, rather than once a day which is what the vet said to do. A year later, Bubbles is doing fine on his meds. If I had listened to the vet he would be long dead. And yes, this vet is an exotic specialist, the best in my area.

I’m sorry I blabbered on so much, the point is, no matter who is giving you advice, be it your vet or someone on the internet, take that information and do your own research. Don’t take one person’s opinion blindly even if they’re supposed to be an expert. No one person can know everything about everything. The more research you do, the more opinions you will come across and you will see a consensus emerge, allowing you to make an informed decision. As someone on this forum said a while back, do so much research that you could be a horrible vet yourself. 😆

Your parents are right in saying that Hunny has to start using her teeth normally again. However, at this point that issue is secondary. While she’s still recovering from stasis, the number one priority is to keep food going in and coming out the other end so that she doesn’t slip back into stasis. They want to strictly stick to the vets recovery plan, but they really aren’t if they don’t get the prescribed amount of Critical Care into her every day. If something like baby food can help achieve that, why would they refuse that option? The vet as well as your family want Hunny to start eating on her own, if the gas is keeping her from doing so, why would they not want to try Simethicone?

I also agree with Bam, she might benefit from a higher dose of Metacam.

Sorry for the novel 😉  Keep going, I know you and Hunny can get through this!

 

[13Tskhmaster]

I completely agree with you. Trust me, when I’m not tending to Hunny or posting updates here, I’m desperately searching the internet for ways to help my girl. I keep seeing the same things, though (baby food, belly rubs, Critical Care, pain meds, hydration), so maybe that’s a sign they work after all? I guess I would just feel better before proceeding if I checked with my vet. I don’t feel comfortable contacting the specialist, but I’m nervous just contacting the general one. I can’t seem to find anything online regarding Hunny’s eating issues, just things that suggest dental problems that both the vet and specialist have already ruled out. Other than eating, my girl is completely healthy, or so it would seem. She doesn’t display any symptoms apart from what I have been describing here. Hunny did do some poops last night; they come out in little clusters, are a bit smaller than I’d like, and are a bit darker than I’d like, too, but at least she’s defecating. Small victories, right? I still worry how Hunny will do now that the motility meds are gone…

Wick is right to say rabbits aren’t hungry or using the bathroom 24/7. I gotta remember that. Hunny has spent most of her day resting in her tube. I must admit I’m a little concerned, but it could just be she feels safe in there during snoozes, since it was normal of her to sleep there for hours during the day prior to whatever it is we’re dealing with. I don’t know for certain if Hunny is having gas issues anymore; I rubbed her belly for a long time last night, but it made no difference, and I started to worry I was hurting her (even though I was being very gentle) because her teeth were grinding (I can hardly tell now whether it’s purring or pain, like I said). There were no breakthroughs like two nights ago. I think back to when Hunny passed that gas the other evening and ate as if nothing was wrong with her. If only that could be the norm again…

Bam kinda touched on this, but why exactly is it a bunny will decide to stop eating/chewing if their stomach is bothering them? Could it be we are on the right track and it’s the stasis making my girl chew weird? I have to remember the issues presented themselves in this order: No eating/pooping -> Chewing problems, and not the other way around. What’s concerning me is how the chewing problems persist. even though we’re doing all we can to treat the stomach issues…

EDIT: One quick thing I forgot to mention – Hunny doesn’t even use her teeth to nip me anymore. She would normally nip my arm or leg when I’m in her corral to tell me to move out of her way, but now she doesn’t and just nudges me with her nose. My girl still uses her teeth sometimes to pick things up like toys or blankets, but that’s it. Not sure that clarifies anything, but it’s further evidence something isn’t right…

[13Tskhmaster]

Hunny has another vet appointment scheduled for this coming Monday. I’m so scared and upset right now. We were only allowed to speak to a tech, and he didn’t seem to really support the baby food/simethicone ideas. I didn’t hear his exact words, just what my mother told me. Please pray for my baby.

EDIT: What kinds of baby food would you recommend for Hunny? Most of the flavors (at least the Gerber Hazel recommends) are combos of flavors made up of things Hunny has never eaten before. How would we dispense it? Via syringe? On a spoon? In a dish?

EDIT 2: Wow…I just found out there was another specialist at the vet’s office Hunny never got to see, and the clinic never even mentioned it to us that this other vet existed until we called back today. Hunny may as well have seen another general vet. Our family is very stressed because we know most likely, we’ll get forwarded to a non-specialized place for CAT scans and ultrasounds, things that would stress Hunny out far too much. The specialist Hunny is supposed to see on Monday is apparently very hard to get appointments with for some reason. I’m so scared what’s gonna happen to my Hunny…

[Wick & Fable]

Unless something has been discovered that I’m unaware of, simethicone is virtually harmless to give to rabbits… I honestly have used it as a treat a two or three times when I groomed one of my rabbits and realize I am out of treats for them, because they both love it so much…. if you worry tummy rubs are harmful, simethicone is a safe bet if she’ll take it.

Something that has popped into my head is a line Wick’s first vet mentioned to me after his first dental procedure. She mentioned that he may need time to acclimate and learn how to chew in a different way to get accustomed to the new mouth feel. Also over the months and years of me having Wick, his method of eating has adapted. I used to be able to hand feed him pellets and he’d just grasp them with his front teeth and eat it. Now, I have to hold it and sort of wait until he does a few more chewing motions to get it into his mouth . Notably, this is the longest its been since he needed a dental because his teeth finally sorted themselves out and decided to stop being crooked (also Wick decided to eat more hay, thank goodness). All to say, maybe she’s having difficulty adjusting to the new mouth feel and the more she tries, the closer she’ll get there. As others mentioned, try making food smaller. For Wick, he actually can’t eat large pieces of vegetables and I need to cut his hay because he just spits it out. He will grasp on a long piece, attempt to readjust and get it in his mouth, then give up and spit it out.

During this time, it might be helpful to lean into having her try to be more curious and exploratory, if she has the energy. Maybe make some diy hay feeders and put a couple in her free roam area. It’s a more passive engagement activity. You’re not forcing her, but if she’s up for it in an area she’s usually active, maybe it’ll stimulate her to try more nibbles.

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[Bam]

I calculate the current dose of metacam to be 0.45 mg per kilo body weight.

3.3 pounds = 1.5 kilos

0.45 ml × 1.5 mg/ml = 0.675 mg

0.675 mg/1.5 kilos= 0.45 mg/kilo

She could have more metacam. Max dose as stated by Medirabbit is 1.5 mg/kilo body weight, once or twice per day. When my bun was ill last fall he had 0.5 ml of 1.5 mg/ml metacam twice per day. He too weighs 1.5 kilos. He started out with 0.5 ml once per day, but since that was insufficient, his vet decided he should get the same dose every 12 hours instead. This made a big difference. He was still in a bad way for a long time though, recovery was very slow.

Rabbits can stop eating in response to any kind of pain. This is well known, but why it is, I doubt anyone knows. This means pain anywhere can result in GI stasis brought on by inappetence.

You are being very brave and a wonderful bun owner.

 

[13Tskhmaster]

Thank you for the kind words, Bam. I’m trying to give as much love and help to my girl as I possibly can. You certainly are right about the slow recovery. I did manage to get Hunny to eat 1/4 of a Vitakraft Carrot Slim, as well as several nibbles from a tiny chunk of Kaytee Timothy Hay Cube. They are some of her favorite treats, and it made me feel a tiny bit better to see her biting at them. Of course, she didn’t inhale them like normal, but I was happy with what my girl did. I even soaked them in water to make them a bit easier to chew. It made minimal difference, though.

COVID-19 means I cannot enter the office, but when we bring Hunny to the other specialist on Monday, I plan to assemble all we’ve talked about here into an informative document of sorts. I’ll see about increasing Hunny’s metacam dosage. I don’t feel comfortable guessing or doing so on my own. I know the vet only sent us home with that and replan because of adverse effects from the drugs, and not wanting us to pump Hunny so full of them.

In the meantime, we will continue to give Hunny the best care. I’m nervous Hunny will stop pooping now that we’ve run out of Reglan, but I’m keeping my fingers crossed. As far as I know, she has yet to use the litterbox today, but I do think I’ve seen her drop a stray poop or two over the course of the day. Not 100% sure on that…

[Hazel]

I know you’re doing everything you can for Hunny. I was hoping my post might help your family be a little more open minded, with regards to you I know I’m preaching to the choir. 😉

I hope the new vet can help. Maybe it would be helpful if you took a video of her trying to eat and send it to the vet before your appointment? It might help them figure out why she’s having trouble.

[13Tskhmaster]

Thank you Hazel. Hunny took most of her Critical Care tonight, and I’m so proud of her. I’m just worried she won’t poop because this is her first night without motility meds…

I plan to spend more time with Hunny tonight. I’m just so worried the worst is gonna happen. I love my girl so much. Sorry to be a broken record lol 😛

What should I do if she doesn’t poop tonight?

EDIT: I have videos from before Hunny’s stay at the vet last weekend. They show exactly how she’s chewing now. The vet supposedly watched them last time, but I don’t know…

[13Tskhmaster]

This is how Hunny has been eating since whatever she has set in. Notice how much tongue work there is and how little teeth. I’d blame the procedure Hunny had, but this was happening even before then. I’m worried my girl will choke on something…

I gave Hunny some fresh water, and she took some big sips. She tried nibbling her carrot slim but gave up. She then tried her Timothy hay cube and gave up. Took a video of her trying to eat that. She then tried to eat hay but couldn’t. She just did at least 20 poops, looking halfway between sickly and normal.

[LBJ10]

Hmm… are you sure there wasn’t any trauma to her face or jaw? It almost looks like she has a hard time moving things around with her tongue. The food goes in her mouth, but she can’t get it to the back to swallow. Then she spits it out. Her vigorous chewing is not reminiscent of a bunny reluctantly taking a treat and then spitting it out because they have stomach pain. It really looks like she just doesn’t have enough control over her tongue. What are other people’s thoughts? I have experience with facial paralysis, but not in the absence of a drooping lip. There is a separate nerve that goes to the tongue.

[13Tskhmaster]

Highly doubt there was any trauma. There’s really nothing Hunny could have done to cause such a thing. She exhibits control over her tongue while doing everything except eating, at least as far as I can tell.

[Wick & Fable]

EDIT: I was writing this while you posted your reply above ^ Please ignore the tongue-related inquiries since you address it above.

I see a desire to eat, but the inability to do so. She tries for a really long time, and that energy seems like a good sign to me. I’m unsure if it’s a tongue thing; wondering if it’s just very prominent due to the short front-lower incisors…. hmm.

In the video, are the pieces she spits out the same size as they were going in? I wonder whether it’s easier or harder for longer vs. shorter strands of hay. I imagine longer strands allow rabbits to use their tongue, front teeth, and molars to get everything to size, while shorter pieces force a rabbit to localize and get specific of what is being used.

If it is her teeth being too short and the inability to adjust to their length, thankfully her teeth are continuously growing, so overtime things should improve and hopefully she’ll be more successful in eating soon. Rabbit teeth grow relatively quickly. Based on the video, it’s great that you’re really trying to find out what texture, size, and shapes work best for her, in terms of eating. One of the things I think of with mushy foods is you still need a lot of work to get the mush to the back of the throat to swallow. I wonder if she’d be agreeable to mush being served on something she could lick off of? That way her tongue is doing the work, rather than her teeth? I also wonder about softer versus harder hay. Have you noticed a pattern in the hay pieces she does pick up and try to eat?

If it is a tongue issue, then I’d think about observing her grooming. Maybe put a few drops of water on her nose or something, and see if she’ll use her tongue to lick it off. Have you noticed any difficulties she’s had in “cleaning” herself up after drinking from a water bowl? I found this is when my rabbits lick their face and mouth area the most?

 

… Also, this is not helpful, but maybe an interesting observation to keep in mind — The only time I’ve seen Wick or Fable chewing like that is when they’re eating a cecotrope. I’ve always noticed that the chew motion and tongue visibility for eating a cecotrope is different than other stuff. May or may not be relevant, but just something I noticed.

 

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[13Tskhmaster]

So for some reason, Wick responded, but it’s not showing up. Here’s what I have to say to what Wick wrote:

It’s Hunny’s desire to eat that makes this so heartbreaking to watch. I noticed how short her incisors were post-filing; I had thought they had only done Hunny’s back teeth, but regardless, this is a problem Hunny has had since even before her teeth were filed. I posted about it in the beginning, leading people here to suspect a dental issue. The vet then filed down the teeth on a subsequent visit as a precaution, only for a different vet to say they had been done too short for her liking, but that she wasn’t concerned because the teeth would grow back.

As seen in the video, whether it’s greens, hay, fruit, or a part of a treat, whatever goes in comes back out seemingly untouched. It’s like my girl can’t chew anymore. No matter what size the piece of food is (I break down her treats, remove overly long hay pieces, etc.), Hunny exhibits this new, concerning chewing behavior. When my girl is given longer greens or tries taking normal-length hay pieces, she picks them up and tosses them aside, sometimes trying to nibble with no success. The only time Hunny ate food like normal was a few nights ago, when I helped her pass gas (I tried last night with some belly rubs, but it hurt her too much for me to touch her stomach, based on her teeth grinding). She ate five or six pieces of cilantro like her old self before reverting to this new version.

I have not noticed any patterns in hay pieces, and I’m concerned about offering Hunny mush (which I have thought about) because of her aversion to Critical Care, which she takes and keeps in her mouth before eventually swallowing it. I also do not notice any issues with Hunny’s grooming. It’s normal, as far as I can tell.

[Wick & Fable]

I edited my post and it glitched out, haha. It is revived now.

The aversion to Critical Care can be a lot of things, but no harm in trying something new. You may have a routine in prepping it and presenting it that will not be present in presenting mush food, so perhaps it will be less aversive? Have you tried a pellet mush? You soak pellets in a little bit of water and that will make them mushy. If she has an appetite for pellets, it may be helpful.

I am also wondering about alternative ways to presenting food. Syringe can definitely be an easy bad-association target for rabbits, but there is a precision there that really can’t be beat. I wonder about like, a tiny spoon? Or something that she can approach willing, see and smell the food, and she has control of eating it off of there, versus with a syringe, she does not have control.

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[Bam]

In the video it looks kind of like when an animal is eating something sticky.

I don”t remember if you’ve said, but have you tried giving her s small plate of rolled oats? Oats are gentle on the tummy and easy to chew, and many buns like them a lot. It’s one of the few things my chronic dental bun can and will eat. While cereal is not the best food for a rabbit, it’s acceptable when a bun has trouble eating enough.

My vet also suggested I soak the hay for my bun, to soften it. He didnt like that, but all buns are a bit different. Just keep in mind that wet hay spoils quickly, so it should be replaced often.

[13Tskhmaster]

We have tried alternative means of Critical Care presentation, with no success, overall. The closest we came to a new delivery method was putting it powdered on a strawberry top. Even then, it took two hours before Hunny willingly ate it, possibly forgetting it was there. We’ve tried spoons, dishes, etc. All my girl does is sniff it and then move on. She likes to flip bowls (usually full of water, lol), so we avoid leaving them in the corral with her long-term.

[13Tskhmaster]

Agreed, Bam. I’ve often described the video as looking like a dog eating peanut butter. Glad someone else sees it that way.

Hunny has never had pellets or oats, so it’s likely she would not eat them, no matter what form they are in. She also has never had mango or grass, something my general vet tried to get Hunny to eat the last time she was there. My girl likes the familiar over the unfamiliar. She’s a lot like me in that regard, lol. That said, I have tried soaking hay for Hunny before, but she struggles with that, too. Either that, or she just doesn’t like it soaked.

Something I’ve noticed since this started is Hunny is more experimental/receptive to food and water at night, when bunnies are normally active. The only reason that’s a concern for me is before all this started, she used to take food whenever it was given, regardless of time of day, and inhale it.

[Wick & Fable]

Stickiness! That does explain why I notice it during cecotrope eating. Very interesting. So it seems she is trying to eat hay in a manner not expected?

The unwillingness for food during the day vs night could be unrelated. I think a lot of owners observe their rabbits being food crazy initially, but once food security sets in (ie the understanding that they will always be fed), they may feel less pressured to eat food when immediately presented. You’ve made a great observation with night time though, and sometimes hunger is necessary motivator during these times.

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[13Tskhmaster]

EXCITING UPDATE ALERT: My mother just told me Hunny ate six-eight pieces of fresh cilantro without any of those chewing problems! I didn’t see it for myself but wish I did. Hunny hasn’t done what my mom described since the other night, when I helped her pass that gas! So proud of my girl 😃😃😃

[Hazel]

That’s wonderful! 😀

[13Tskhmaster]

Around 4:30 PM (it’s 6:23 PM where I am, now), in addition to the six-eight pieces of cilantro Hunny ate for my sister, she ate another seven-10 for my mother! We’ve tried offering Hunny parsley and cilantro on-and-off ever since, and she doesn’t seem interested. My guess is her little belly’s full, so I’m not too worried. Our plan is if Hunny doesn’t eat veggies in the next four hours, we’re gonna give her a dose of Critical Care. We’re praying Hunny will take more veggies later and the Critical Care will be unnecessary, but we’re prepared to ride this rollercoaster through. Hunny still has a vet appointment scheduled on Monday.

I’d say right now aside from the eating, my biggest worries are that Hunny won’t poop now that it’s been over 24 hours without motility meds, that she hasn’t been peeing as much these past few days (rather than the big blotches I’m used to, she leaves coin-sized spots), and that there is gas buildup in her tummy (it seemingly sets in at night; family didn’t buy the infant drops because we couldn’t get a vet’s approval).

I’m just happy for a brief moment, I had my little eating machine back 🙂 Not just once, but twice in the span of two hours 😀 Like I said, I hadn’t seen Hunny eat without chewing problems (let alone at all) since I helped her pass gas that time a few nights ago.

I did buy some banana…Should I see if Hunny goes for it? I worry about her sugar intake but also know sometimes it’s best for bunnies who won’t eat to have access to anything and everything they like…

[DanaNM]

That’s great!

Before you try the straight banana, try mashing some some into the critical care as a mush and see if she will eat that off a spoon or a plate.

Not seeing as much pee means she may be a bit dehydrated, so try to encourage water drinking (check out my post about hay tea above in the thread).

I know it’s so stressful to give it, but you should keep up the CC until her eating is almost normal, even if she takes some veggies on her own. The CC has fiber, plus some enzymes etc that help get the tummy back on track. It is probably most important part of the whole treatment regimen.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[13Tskhmaster]

I offer Hunny fresh water whenever I can from a dish. Sometimes she drinks from it like a dehydrated camel, other times she wants no part of it. My family won’t try the hay tea because it wasn’t vet-prescribed. It’s hard to fight my family on matters such as these. We all want Hunny better, but our methods are all different, which makes things like Critical Care time even more stressful.

What ratio of banana to Critical Care would you recommend? Should I do the moistened Critical Care or the powder? Hunny already took four or five syringes full between this morning and this afternoon. We normally do one batch of syringe-fulls in the morning, and one at night, but today Hunny ate all that cilantro, and given how stressful Critical Care-giving is for us and Hunny, we thought we would see how she does and take it from there. She’ll get more CC before we go to sleep, if not. We did get Hunny to eat most of her hay-based cookie treat just now, as well as some nibbles of a hay cube. It’s not that Hunny hasn’t had any CC today, just that we don’t want to traumatize her again tonight if we don’t have to.

Hunny just did some poops and what looks like a normal amount of pee, so idk. Right now, we’re on the phone with the vets who have access to MRIs and stuff like that. I worry about Hunny having to go through all that, especially on the same day she’s seeing the specialist, but I honestly just don’t know. I’m so happy with the victories we had today, but I worry about the future. I’m scared Hunny will have to go through invasive procedures, and I don’t want that. Neither does my family, but I’m scared that will mean my only option is losing my girl…

[DanaNM]

She really sounds to be improving… if she continues to improve over the weekend I would call off the appointment.

As for mixing banana in, when I did this for Bertha I mixed up the CC thicker than I would for syringing, more like a paste, then mixed in just enough banana to get her to eat it. I can’t remember the exact amounts but I feel like it was maybe 1 part banana to 3 or 4 parts mixed CC?

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Hazel]

Agree with Dana, as long as she keeps improving there’s no need to put her through any invasive procedures. The additional stress could cause a setback. Going by your last couple of posts I think she’s coming along very well! 🙂

[13Tskhmaster]

The frustrating thing is, Hunny goes back to being unable to chew properly just as quickly as she goes back to normal. She eats her fill of cilantro then goes back to struggling to even bite things. I’m very stressed and worried right now because of the phone conversation we had with this new vet. They’re familiar with rabbits but not specialists; all they have is equipment for CT scans and MRIs. They would have to anesthetize Hunny again unless, by some miracle, the specialist she’s seeing on Monday figures everything out. I want to compose a document chronicling with as much accuracy as possible my experiences during this process for the doctor.

We just gave Hunny more Critical Care, her last dose for the night, and it did not go very well. The bag says a rabbit her size needs 1.5 tiny bowls full of CC, and we’re lucky to make it past one or two syringes. Each time, Hunny reaches a point where she just can’t handle things anymore. She wriggles out of her burrito and tries to escape. My mother has to put Hunny back in the corral before she hurts herself in an escape attempt. I wish I could find the magic alternative that would get Hunny to eat what she needs to…

I was very happy and proud of Hunny when she ate the cilantro both times today. But she keeps regressing back into the abnormal state, so it’s impossible for me to feel like any genuine progress is being made. Tomorrow is Hunny’s last dose of the pain meds we were given. I worry my girl will have difficulty once it’s all gone. I realize it’s a simple call to the vet to get more, but we don’t want to over-drug Hunny or trigger worse problems because of that.

[DanaNM]

Hmmm, to me the fact that she goes back and forth between eating normally and not makes me think it is pain related? Do you notice a relationship with how long it’s been since her pain meds? The video of her chewing is weird for sure… it’s just so curious that she is switching on and off with eating normally.

Does she seem like she gets gassy after eating her cilantro?

Just for your own info, does she tolerate you massaging around her face? If she normally likes cheek rubs, does she like them now? If you gently feel around her face, does she flinch at all? I ask because if she has any sensitive or sore spots around her face that could indicate something like an abscess that could explain some things… One of my bridge bunnies Moose had a jaw abscess and he would never let me touch his cheeks, even before the abscess was detected. He also would only eat his hay in this specific time window after his pain meds, so I’m wondering if maybe the timing with her eating is related to pain med timing.

Metacam is similar to ibuprofen. If you mention to the vet she still seems in pain they should be able to give you more. It’s true you don’t want to use it super long term, but that usually means for months or other chronic conditions. And as Bam mentioned, you might ask about the dosage. Some vets under-dose metacam.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Hazel]

Agree with Dana again. 😆

I would try to get more Metacam from the vet at a higher dosage and see if that improves her appetite.

[13Tskhmaster]

I was wondering if it could be pain-related, and I was wondering if gas could be the cause (if not just another symptom). Hunny didn’t really have problems with it before now, but the first time she reverted to normal, it was after I helped her pass it, like I said. Maybe she passed more while sleeping in her tube this morning? It would explain why she suddenly became normal again this afternoon for my mother and sister…

Hunny seems to have the most pain-related issues around midnight, which is when I assume the day’s dose of pain meds wears off. I’m not sure it’s gas or something else, but last night when she was grinding her teeth in pain, it was because I was rubbing her belly gently to try to relieve gas. It was so heartbreaking I had to stop. It wasn’t the loud clicking I heard last week, but it was grinding louder than the purring kind…

I have not noticed Hunny having any issues when I pet her face or cheeks. I try to be gentle there just in case, but she loves being rubbed on the bridge of her nose and especially likes it when I use my whole hand to pet from her head down to her rear, a full-body massage, if you will.

[DanaNM]

Gas does make a lot of sense, both because it can be intermittent and can cause a lot of pain. It is so hard to watch. 🙁

Def check with the vet about a refill, and potentially stronger prescription for metacam, and also ask if it’s OK for you to split the dose and give every 12 hours.

Encouraging gentle movement can also help with gas and stimulates the gut muscles. So for example, after you give her meds, you can set her down a little ways away from her normal hang-out spot, so she has to hop a little to get back to it.

That’s good she still likes you touching her face. 🙂 My Moose was always kind of flinch-y around his face. When I first got him I thought he was just timid and hand shy, but over time we realized it was actually a medical issue. Poor baby. 🙁

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Hazel]

I’m so sorry she’s having so much trouble with gas right now. Try to get her to hop around regularly, movement can help. I really wish your family would give the Simethicone a try, gas is very painful and I know you hate seeing her like that. 🙁

[13Tskhmaster]

I wish they would too, Hazel. I want to mention Simethicone and other suggestions in the document I give the vet on Monday. There’s no guarantee she’ll read it, and I can’t flat-out tell her everything because of COVID-19 and the clinic’s strict policies related to that, but I want to try.

Dana, I’m sorry to hear about your Moose 🙁 I try to keep Hunny moving as much as possible, but sometimes she just wants a good snuggle lol 🙂 I go into her corral at night and lay on my stomach. She hops up on my back and sits there for a good 40 minutes at a time, sometimes flopping lol

Of all things, Hunny had a blast playing with a plastic bag, or so it seemed. She’d throw it and make me laugh so hard watching her 😛

In terms of refilling the pain meds, I doubt my family will let Hunny stay in pain. I’m sure they’ll call the vet and ask for more if necessary 🙂

[DanaNM]

It’s really good she finds you comforting and will come snuggle with you. That’s so cute that she flops on your back! 🙂

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[13Tskhmaster]

Hunny and I do have a special little bond 🙂 That’s the ironic part in all this…Despite all the worry she’s causing me, she has also been my greatest source of comfort the entire time 🙂

[BinkyBunny]

I am catching up on all this. Wow…what a mystery. I am so very sorry for all the stress you are going through. My gosh — I get emotionally stressed out after 24 hours of being hyper-vigilant when gi stasis symptoms show up, I can’t even imagine the stress you are under for this long.  Your family, even with differing opinions, sounds so caring, It’s obvious they love you and Hunny, and just want the best.   It sounds like whatever is the issue is…it ends up causing gas/bloat.  How often does Hunny’s stomach get tight?  In those cases, I 100% agree that simethicone can be helpful. When the bunny’s stomach is tight from gas, the simethicone does the job to break up the gas bubbles to make them easier to pass and prevent so much pain. It is not something that will be harmful to try. This is a good video about rabbits and gas, created by Mary Cotter, Ed.D., LVT, House Rabbit Society’s Education/Outreach Director,  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbyC6CWbm5M). I apologize if someone has already posted this and I missed it. I know so many members have suggested this already. The bloat may not be the source of the issue, but at least when it does show up, you may be able to ease the discomfort with it, until you can find out what the source of the issue is.

Have you showed the video to the vet?

So if I am tracking this correctly — She does okay for a day or so, but then she can’t chew very well, then gas or bloat sets in, then if the gas goes away, she feels better, is able to poop and then whole cycle starts again.  Is this correct?

I know this causes a lot of pain and anxiety. Hang in there.

[13Tskhmaster]

Hunny didn’t seem to suffer from gas tonight, but I did notice a lot of stray poops have been cumulating in her cage, not just the litter box she normally uses. Are these cecotropes or sick poops? So hard to tell good from bad anymore…

This has been going on for almost two weeks, now. Overall, progress is minimal. Hunny barely eats, and when she does, she can’t chew her food. She barely poops or pees; when she does, it’s far from normal. Three times now (once a few nights ago after passing gas and two times today), Hunny has randomly eaten cilantro like her old self, but then she slips back into this new version of herself in a matter of minutes. Behavior-wise, she is as loving and perky as ever.

The video I posted here is the most recent of four. Hunny has been having this chewing problem since the GI set in, or vice versa. The vets have supposedly seen them. We are all at a loss and I personally feel so defeated and scared. I just want my girl to be okay, and I don’t see a way out of this that gives me that result.

I observed the following during my time with Hunny tonight: Maybe a few poops and a sprinkle of pee, nibbled a bit of hay cube but not much, and drank some water. We snuggled, after which she did a lot of grooming.

I just want my girl to be healthy again. I want to be able to fix this. I hate that we haven’t been able to so far. I can’t even celebrate small victories like today’s because they are so short-lived and happen so rarely. Despite all Hunny and I have had to go through between Critical Care stress, research, and extended vet stays, I feel no closer to solving this problem than I did when it started.

 

[BinkyBunny]

I edited my post to add a video and some info so be sure to reread my post. (Sorry I can’t pinpoint you to the actual edits to save you time)

Anyway, the fact she is leaving “lot of stray poop have been accumulating in her cage”….in addition her litter box is a good sign in my opinion.  So she is leaving poops then in her litter box too?  If so, this is good.  Due to stress and the extra attention she is getting, she could be actually leaving territorial poops. (usually scattered to let everyone know who OWNS the space. LOL)     I know you don’t want to get your hopes up. I understand.  Sometimes GI stasis issues take weeks.

The chewing issue though is definitely a phenomenon.  I would have attributed it to the tooth trim, but my understanding is this is what she was doing originally — before any tooth trim, is that correct?

[13Tskhmaster]

Correct. The tooth trim happened after this started to rule out any dental issues. I hope leaving the poops is a good sign, like you say.

[BinkyBunny]

…but the chewing was like this (as in the latest video) was still BEFORE the tooth trim.  Correct?   I know this may be repetitive, but just wanting to make 100% sure.

 

[13Tskhmaster]

Yes, it started like a day or so before the tooth trim.

[Bam]

Don’t be afraid to ask for more pain meds. Medirabbit states that rabbits do well on metacam longterm. It is often used as a life long medication for elderly buns with joint problems.

It is however important that it is combined with a stomach protecting drug. Sadly, ranitidine, which is the go-to drug in cases like these, is still off the market. Vets may still have a stash of it in the clinic (Zantac). Sucralfate or famotidine (Pepcid) can be used instead.

I do think that a stomach protecting drug could be sth to try. If her problems are related to irritation of the stomach lining, eating and even swallowing food is likely to cause pain.

[13Tskhmaster]

MID-DAY UPDATE: Hunny just pooped and peed again for the first time since last night. Not anywhere close to the normal looks or amounts, but at least it’s something! Tried offering my girl a piece of hay. She showed interest in it but couldn’t chew it for some reason. The piece just kept falling out of her mouth, untouched. It’s like the “grasp with teeth and inhale like a vacuum cleaner” reflex is gone or impaired. I do think Hunny eventually got half the piece in her; she wouldn’t let me take it out of her mouth to make it smaller, so I let her go at the big piece and cheered her on. Hunny is currently sleeping in her tube, a normal sight from even before she was ill. Behaviorally, I’d say my girl is pretty much normal. It’s just the eating and waste production that is concerning me. Gave Hunny some Critical Care this morning; her next dose is due around suppertime. We’ll see how my girl does now that all her meds are gone…

[13Tskhmaster]

Last night was interesting. Hunny didn’t really eat anything apart from a few nibbles of banana, but she played the hay tunnel in her cage for the first time since she got sick! She took some sips of water and may have had some nibbles of her hay cube. I can’t be sure because I was composing a document to show the vet tomorrow, and I only heard the sound of normal chewing. When I examined the treat, however, it seemed untouched. Hunny did minimal poop and pee overnight, but she did do some during the day yesterday.

Nothing has really happened so far, today. Hunny took her Critical Care like a good girl. Really nervous about the vet tomorrow.

[Hazel]

Good luck, let us know how it goes!

[13Tskhmaster]

Last night was interesting: Minimal change from Hunny, but she was interested in her hay cookie treats and got two down (with some difficulty). We then got in the corral with her around midnight and offered her pieces of greens, strawberry tops, and apple slices. My girl ate a little of each; she loved the apple. Woke up this morning to a decently full litter box. The more time we spent with Hunny, the more we felt like her problem is mouth-related, rather than gut-related. Of course, we aren’t vets, but we noticed Hunny had an easier time with the greens when we held them above her head and she had to look up to eat them.

Please pray for my girl! Hoping for the best from this new specialist (and that Hunny doesn’t have to be referred to the facility with the CT scans), but I’m still nervous. I will be sure to keep everyone updated.

[Bam]

It does seem like some sort of swallowing-problem? That she eats better with her head held high makes it seem like she needs the help of gravity to swallow.

Dysphagia is the medical term for difficulty swallowing. It can have several causes.

[13Tskhmaster]

Hunny has to get a CT scan. The vet is hopeful, but I’m terrified.

[13Tskhmaster]

Hunny just came home from the specialist. I wasn’t able to go because of my anxiety, but my father and sister took her and said the vet Hunny saw was “very knowledgable.” That gave me some comfort. Based on everything Hunny has experienced (I wrote a comprehensive data table chronicling this issue based on what I’ve typed here on BinkyBunny), the vet thinks it is indeed a dental issue, rather than a gut one. Since June 7, when we brought Hunny home from her weekend-long stay at the vet, our girl has lost 1/10 of a pound, which the specialist says is barely a concern for a rabbit Hunny’s size.

Hunny’s lower incisors are misaligned. They were filed down by our regular vet (experienced with rabbits but not a specialist) at the start of the month. The hope was the teeth would grow back correctly, but they did not. On the plus side, the incisors were too short for the specialist’s comfort the first time we took Hunny to her practice, but now, she says they’re at a more reasonable length.

Hunny has to get a CT scan sooner rather than later (we are calling this afternoon to schedule). We do not know what it will reveal, if anything, but the specialist said Hunny could need a tooth extracted, after which she would need regular filings because her upper teeth won’t have anything to grind against, or Hunny has an abscess of some sort, which will either be treated surgically or with antibiotics, if it does indeed exist. We’re grasping at straws right now, but the specialist said depending on Hunny’s diagnosis, there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

We were told to keep doing Critical Care and try mixing some unsweetened apple juice with it to improve the taste. Hunny is allowed one thumbnail-sized piece of apple a day; while we were thinking it’d be good if Hunny ate anything simply because she isn’t eating, the specialist said too much sugar could mess up Hunny’s gut and cause stasis. We definitely don’t want that. We were given more Meloxicam, as well as an antibiotic that starts with a “g” (can’t recall the exact name off the top of my head).

Please pray for my girl; the specialist is almost positive the problem has to do with Hunny’s mouth/teeth/throat, and not her gut. Hopefully we can get a CT scan done soon that reveals a non-scary diagnosis. We want to do everything we can to help Hunny, but we don’t want to hurt her by helping her. Let’s hope the antibiotics can help!

[Bam]

Fingers so very crossed for you and Hunny! It does sound hopeful,  I’m glad you are seeing a rabbit specialist now.

💗💗💗 for Hunny. And for you, for being amazing!

[13Tskhmaster]

Thank you so much, Bam <3 I’m hoping we’re on the right track now, and that all of this will be over soon. I pray I can have my normal girl back, and keep her in my family for many years to come! Thank you so much for your support, in the meantime!

[13Tskhmaster]

Just found out the soonest Hunny can get a CT scan is June 30, 15 days from now. I worry about Hunny making it until then. Unless my girl’s situation becomes emergent (let’s pray it doesn’t), they won’t see her any sooner.

[13Tskhmaster]

We got a different appointment for this Wednesday afternoon! Thank goodness! Please keep the prayers for Hunny coming!

[Hazel]

I’m glad you got an earlier appointment. 🙂

So her lower incisors are misaligned, why does he want to do a CT scan? Just to rule out anything else? Or does he think the misalignment was caused recently by an underlying issue rather than being a “natural” development brought on by age? If there’s an abscess, shouldn’t it be visible on the x-ray?

Did the vet give any feedback about the Simethicone or baby food?

Sorry for all the questions, I just want her to be okay.

[13Tskhmaster]

I’m glad, too, but also nervous. I pray Hunny just has a tiny abscess that can be treated with antibiotics (I was wrong when I said she received one from the vet today; Hunny actually got a drug that prevents GI problems in addition to more Meloxicam). I’m afraid she’ll either have a big one or have to lose a tooth. I can’t imagine how stressful the recovery from that would be…

The specialist wants the CT scan purely for information. Apparently, the 3D imaging from that will reveal details the 2D x-rays cannot, including abscesses. We are not sure why Hunny’s lower incisors are misaligned, or when it happened. My hope is whatever’s causing it is easy to treat and that I’ll have a healthy, normal bunny again soon. I’m still very scared for what will or won’t happen on Wednesday…

To my knowledge, the vet didn’t say anything about the simethicone or baby food, but she did caution us about too much sugar (fruits, carrots, etc.).

I appreciate your concern, Hazel 🙂 I want Hunny to be better, too! She just took some nibbles of romaine and is having her last dose of Critical Care for the day. Hunny just did some poop and a little pee, so that’s good!

[DanaNM]

Sounds like you are getting some answers! And good that she hasn’t lost much weight despite everything!

Misaligned teeth is often genetic, but can occur due to normal aging as well as bone density changes (although this usually doesn’t show up till age 6 or so). Unfortunately lion heads are a breed that is becoming associated with dental issues, similar to Netherland dwarfs and certain lop breeds (that squashed block face that breeders select for can result in teeth being more crowded). But bunnies of all breeds can end up with dental issues.

It sounds like you have a very knowledgeable vet. Do you know if the CT scan will just be of the head, or will it give information about other areas of the body as well? Such as possible strictures in the esophagus that might make it hard for her to swallow? It’s strange, you mention her tilting her head up when she eats. My husband actually has esophageal strictures and sometimes it is hard for him to swallow… so you reminded me of that. I’ve never heard of something like that in a rabbit though.

My bun Moose had a jaw abscess that led to a rotten molar (or rather, the rotten molar prob caused the abscess). If she does have an abscess, I suggest treating it as aggressively as possible. The typical treatment is for the vet to surgically clean out the abscess, and then at home you would give subcutaneous antibiotics for several weeks (it is honestly easier than giving oral meds once you get the hang of it). Sometimes the vet will pack the abscess capsule with material that is impregnated with medication to allow it to heal without more pus filling up inside. When bunnies are very old or otherwise unable to undergo surgery, sometimes the vet will put them on long term antibiotics, but this won’t cure the abscess and is hard on the bunny long term, and is more to keep the abscess in check when there are no other options.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[13Tskhmaster]

I hope we’re on the right track. I do worry about Hunny losing weight; hopefully, 1/10 of a pound is the worst it gets…

The vet did mention the thing about dwarf rabbits having more dental problems than non-dwarfs. Hunny being a dwarf and lionhead mix could explain why she is having issues our last two bunnies never did…I’m just scared this will be some big, huge problem with lots of ramifications. I’m praying so hard for a small thing we can fix easily once it’s identified.

The specialist Hunny saw today is apparently very hard to get appointments with. She is hardly ever in-office and apparently didn’t want to see Hunny until the end of the month, originally. I don’t know for sure what the CT scan will be of, as I did not attend the appointment today, where that was discussed (mainly because of my anxiety towards this situation). My guess is they will scan from the throat up. Again, hoping we don’t have to deal with anything requiring major surgery (or any, for that matter).

We are again hoping any abscess Hunny may have is a small one that could be treated with antibiotics. I’d hate to have my girl lose a tooth. All these unknowns are just really scary to me. We will of course do whatever we can to help my girl, but my parents have made it clear that if we can’t help Hunny without hurting her, we will have to let her go. I’m terrified of that. The specialist said she was hopeful, though, and that’s what I have to remember.

[13Tskhmaster]

I did some research. I’m thinking more and more some form of dental abscess could be causing my girl’s issues. She always has access to hay, so maybe a piece cut her gum or something. Idk…

I never thought about it till now, but some things to mention:

– Hunny has not done communicative nips since this started. If she wants me to move an arm, she nudges me with her nose.

– The skin part of Hunny’s nose feels wet to me. Not like it’s dripping, but wet like a dog’s.

– The stray poops I’ve noticed lately are likely cecotropes Hunny tried to eat but spat out. I just watched her do this, and the dropped cecotrope looks like others I’ve found.

I’ve read about all the treatments and such for tooth abscesses. Very scared. Hunny is completely healthy apart from this. I don’t want to lose her.

[DanaNM]

Googling rabbit dental abscesses is scary indeed, but I can tell you the my Moose recovered from his very well. His cleared up completely after 1 round of cleaning it out and the course of antibiotics (hence my recommendation to treat it aggressively from the get-go, if that is what it ends up being). When the rabbit is otherwise healthy and you have a skilled vet (and sounds like you do) the prognosis is good.

Try not to do too much googling over possible diagnosis yet, as hard as it is to resist!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[13Tskhmaster]

Thank you, Dana. You’re so right. I will try my best to resist the Googling urge and trust the vets. I hope Hunny is able to make a complete recovery like your Moose did.

It’s Critical Care time now. I’ll keep updating as the day progresses with any major observations.

[13Tskhmaster]

I’m really nervous again today. Hunny is seeing yet another vet; today’s appointment is to figure out if she is eligible for the CT scan. I’m not sure what we’ll do if she’s not, but if she is, one of two things will happen:

1.) We’ll have to schedule a day in the future for the scan to take place.
2.) They’ll do the scan today, and potentially fix whatever is wrong with Hunny while she’s already anesthetized.

I worry because I don’t think my girl is seeing specialists, even though she will be taken to the clinic’s exotics department. I also worry she won’t be eligible for the scan, or that the scan won’t reveal anything, and we’ll be back at square one. If Hunny is eligible and the scan does show something, I’m worried about what she’ll have to go through. She may have to stay overnight, if not longer, and that was murder for me last time. I’m also scared they’ll say Hunny has something unfixable.

My girl hasn’t pooped since 9:30 last night, so that’s also bothering me. I’m sorry to be annoying. I just want today to be a day for answers and solutions, not another of mysteries and problems. Please pray for my girl and send her positive vibes! Thank you all for your continued support and help!

[Hazel]

I thought they were for sure doing the scan today. Why might she not be eligible?

You already know that her lower incisors are misaligned, so if the scan doesn’t reveal anything else, I wouldn’t call that bad news, at least you wouldn’t have to worry about an abscess or anything like that. In that case she’ll either have to have them removed and/or get regular trims. Not ideal, but also not the end of the world. 🙂

Good luck, I hope they decide to go ahead with the scan.

[13Tskhmaster]

I again couldn’t accompany Hunny to this vet clinic due to my anxiety, but my sister just called with an update:

Hunny is eligible for the CT scan. The vet thinks my girl could have an issue with her front teeth (the misalignment was mentioned again), but they are also testing for E. Cuniculi for some reason (Hunny hasn’t shown any symptoms of that, based on what I’ve researched). Either the scan will reveal something treatable, something untreatable (in which case I may have to say goodbye to my girl, and I’m scared of that), or nothing at all (in which case, we’re back at square one). My sister said the vets were very knowledgable and got Hunny to take Critical Care with no issue. My girl has to stay the afternoon and will likely have to be monitored into the evening, if not overnight.

I’m really nervous and praying so hard…

[13Tskhmaster]

Feeling very scared. Vet just called to say Hunny’s CT came back normal, but she noticed a very, very slight head tilt on Hunny that could mean E. Cuniculi. Hunny is coming home tonight, getting started on a med that starts with a “P” to treat that, if she indeed has it. We should get the results of that test sometime next week. Otherwise, my girl is completely healthy, but I don’t find any comfort in that, because it puts us nowhere closer to fixing her.

Vet said she may have to refer Hunny to a neurologist (yet another vet). Depending on how far my family is willing to go with this, I may have to say goodbye to my girl forever :'(

Hunny has so much life and health in her. She is only three years old. She isn’t showing any of the symptoms I find online typical of E. Cuniculi infection. I feel as defeated and at a loss as ever, now. I just don’t know how much longer I can handle this back-and-forth stress…

[DanaNM]

Guessing the medication was Panacur? It usually takes about a month of treatment for symptoms to improve with EC.

Hmmmm, well the EC idea is interesting. I’m guessing the vet thought potentially the trouble swallowing etc. could be neurological? Or maybe unrelated? EC tests are very inaccurate, so some vets will just treat for it if there is any suspicion. Many bunnies do carry it but never show symptoms.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[13Tskhmaster]

Yes, Panacur was the name, I just couldn’t remember it before.

The vet thought exactly as you guessed, and Hunny is starting Panacur tonight as a preventative measure. I’m just so scared. As a symptom of my OCD, I’m more prone to Googling, and all I’ve found are negative-toned articles saying this is incurable and that the only choice is euthanasia or providing comfort until natural death.

The slight tilt was on the left side of Hunny’s body, the vet said. I was suspicious it existed but kept telling myself it was my anxiety talking. I just don’t know what to do. We don’t know for sure my girl has this, but I don’t know what else it could possibly be.

I just want my normal bunny back. I don’t want to lose her.

[DanaNM]

There are many rabbits on this forum that have had EC and have lived many comfortable years with it. It is certainly manageable. Sites that say to euthanize may have been breeders or other sorts of operations. A mild, barely detectable case of head tilt in pet rabbit is entirely manageable.

However, all of that said, I am still not totally convinced that this all isn’t a case of an initial dental issue, tooth sensitivity post-trim, and a rough stasis recovery. I re-read through this whole thread and my feeling is that Hunny just needs more time and supportive care with ample pain management.

Treating for EC is worth trying and won’t harm her, so perhaps this is why the vet suggested it. But before any additional procedures are done, it is worth finding out how her actual care would change with additional diagnostics and specialist visits. My sense is that your at-home care regimen would be the same even if a more complex issue was detected: pain management and supportive care, perhaps a longer term dose of a motility med.

So far certain things seemed to have helped, so I would focus on continuing those things rather than going over worst case scenarios.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Wick & Fable]

A really dangerous medical condition, while something we do not wish upon in our rabbits, sometimes can give us comfort, in that it provides us with a relief of “I can now explain all this chaos and have an idea of what to expect in the future.” There’s comfort in certainty, and uncertainty makes us really uncomfortable, especially when it involves our pets’ health.

This will not be a medically informative post, but just another instance to highlight balancing both the “big picture”, as well as the day to day fluctuations. It’s a lot to take on yourself to have to solve this. There are probably just as many instances of rabbits who show the “exact” signs we expect as there are those that only show a subset or ones that are unique to them. For example, my Wick still eats when he would have molar spurs that bothered him– he’d display his discomfort by peeing everywhere, which isn’t a marked sign of dental discomfort at all. In the end, he is fine and OK, without me finding the exact answer. Wick’s first vet was a very small practice (just the vet and her secretary in a small house), so she didn’t have any resources for examining beyond her stethoscope, communication with the owner, and some basic surgical procedure equipment. She had an attitude I found very unique and helpful, which I would summarize as “At the end of the day, does it matter what the X-ray or scan show? What matters is I get this rabbit in front of me healthy, and whether a scan shows something or not doesn’t change what I would probably recommend.”. The usual, and justifiably preferred, method of treating any ailment is 1) figure out what it is, and 2) treat it. But sometimes, step #1 just isn’t possible/plausible in the timeframe, based on resources, or other factors; but that doesn’t mean recovery isn’t going to happen. Yes, there are definitely times when knowing what’s going on helps and leads directly to recovery, but there are times where maybe the cause remains unknown, but treatment was continued and recovery followed.

The web is both a wonderful resource and a dangerous place when we’re grasping for answers. When trying to manage Wick’s recurrent ringworm which ended up transitioning into syphilis, I would go on escapades of reading academic papers and dozens of sites. I eventually stepped back and realized that, regardless of what I would read or find, it probably wouldn’t practically help in how he was doing in the present.

Unsure if this was at all helpful, but just wanted to share those thoughts to you. No one can know what will happen, but know that recovery is possible, even if a fitting cause isn’t identified immediately.

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[13Tskhmaster]

A lot of the websites that said to euthanize rabbits with E.C. were animal hospitals, actually. That’s what got me so concerned. I don’t want my family to give up on Hunny before she has a chance to recover.

I also worry about a dental issue apart from malocclusion of the lower incisors, but Hunny’s X-rays and CT scan came back clean. There is nothing to suggest she has an abscess or anything of that nature. While I am more confident my girl has a mouth problem and not E.C., my family is not going to go against the vet’s advice. This latest doctor has apparently worked with rabbits for 10 years, and she said Hunny does not have anything wrong with her teeth or tongue. My girl also does not have any blockages in her stomach or intestines.

Are you sure it won’t harm Hunny to treat E.C. as a precaution? I worry about damaging her long-term and the development of side-effects. I also don’t know how much longer my family will keep the vet visits going. They want to do all they can to help Hunny get better, but they aren’t made of money, and these are costly appointments that bring stress to Hunny and to us.

I also don’t think our at-home care regimen would change, but I’m at such a loss and am getting very frustrated. Hunny occasionally has those “miracle moments” where she’s back to her old self, but I never see signs of long-term improvement. If anything, I’m left worrying how much more time will pass before my girl gets worse, and I hate having to feel that way. I just want to know what’s wrong with her and be able to treat it. I’d give anything to have my veggie vacuum back!

[LBJ10]

Wick provided some very good advice. She is absolutely right. Taking things to the extreme just to find answers may not be worth it in the long run because the treatment and outcome will be the same. Sometimes you just have to treat for what it *might* be. I have experienced this with my vet as well. She knows what something probably is based on her experience and she doesn’t believe in putting an animal through zillions of tests when the outcome will be the same regardless. She will only take things further when treatments fail to improve the problem/condition.

I also wanted to add that EC is not a death sentence. Most rabbits have been exposed to EC at some point in their lives. That is a fact. Most do not become ill from it. Most of the ones that do become ill improve with treatment. There is a small number that will be an “EC Bunny” for life, which means their symptoms will come and go (i.e. flare-ups). And yes, some will eventually die. There is no denying that. But when you look at all of the success stories, you can see that an EC diagnosis is not nearly as bad as it once was.

Treating with Panacur as a precaution is very common. I would not worry about it causing harm. Treating with Panacur will not hurt Hunny. If it is EC, then Hunny will get better. If it isn’t EC, then no harm done.

[13Tskhmaster]

Yes, Wick is correct. My family is not going to “take things to the extreme,” but we want to know what Hunny has so we can treat it (within reason, of course; we’re staying away from invasive procedures). So far, we’ve only been able to figure out (thanks to multiple vets, now) what she doesn’t have.

Today’s vet was the first to notice a very slight head tilt in Hunny. She was also the first to order a test for EC. We will get those results back next week, like I said, but in the meantime, we are giving Hunny the Panacur as a precaution. She is also still on Meloxicam and Gabapentin (the anti-stasis drug I couldn’t recall the name of a few days ago).

If you say Hunny can recover with the proper treatment, even if she has EC, I’d like to believe you. Reaching that point, however, has been such a slow, tedious process. There have been no major signs of improvement, no matter what we do, so we’re all just feeling frustrated. I’d like to think there’s a light at the end of this tunnel, but it is so hard to see a lot of the time, especially for someone with anxiety like mine. All it takes is one animal hospital’s website saying, “There’s no hope” for me to start panicking.

Hunny is loved by me, my father, and my sister. We just want our girl back to her old self, and we want to do whatever we can to make that happen.

[LBJ10]

It’s clear that you all love Hunny very much. I just don’t want you to give up hope. I know things seem scary right now. But, as Wick said, it may help if you look at the big picture. Whether Hunny has dental pain, GI stasis, or EC… much of the supportive treatment is the same. The medications are the only things that are different, so your vet has prescribed an “umbrella” of medications so everything is covered.

I know you are worried your family will give up too soon. Just know that sometimes these things take time. As long as they understand that, Hunny should be given ample opportunity to recover. I know 2.5 weeks (since your first post) seems like a long time. Big picture though, it really hasn’t been that long. Especially since there has been a process of trying to diagnose the problem, etc. These things take time, even when there isn’t a pandemic.

We are all here for you and Hunny! I hope you get some answers soon. Or, even better, see some improvement soon. 🙂

[Hazel]

So what is the consensus about her teeth? Are they misaligned or not? The specialist she saw on Monday said they are, and the one who did the scan said they aren’t? I’m confused. 😕

[LBJ10]

From what I understand, there is a misalignment. The xray and CT scan showed no abscesses or issues with the roots.

[13Tskhmaster]

Thank you for putting things in perspective for me, LBJ10. I really hope my girl makes a full recovery, and I’m thankful for everyone’s support here!

The consensus on Hunny’s teeth is her lower incisors are misaligned, but that’s all that’s wrong with her mouth. No other issues showed up in the x-rays or CT scans taken. We tried filing Hunny’s teeth at the start of all this, but they grew back the same way. The vet we saw yesterday was actually very impressed with “how Hunny has compensated.”

[Hazel]

How is she doing now?

[13Tskhmaster]

No significant change. Hunny did poop and pee in the night, so that’s good, but otherwise, she’s still not eating and having immense difficulty chewing whenever she decides to put something in her mouth. She took a few nibbles of cilantro this morning, but that’s it.

The vet who gave Hunny her CT scan told us to try giving our girl pellets. When we first got Hunny, our primary vet (not a specialist, by any means) warned us not to give pellets, because too many can make a rabbit fat. Hunny has thus never had them before. We called the specialist Hunny saw before her CT scan, and she said pellets in moderation were fine. I’m uncomfortable, but we bought a small bag as an experiment. I doubt Hunny will eat them, but the idea is to stop having to rely on Critical Care. It’s been her main source of food since this all started, and it’s an unpleasant experience for her and us.

[DanaNM]

Ah, yeah pellets are worth a try! Most bunnies love them. There are even some brands that are formulated to be free-fed in larger amounts for buns that have trouble eating hay if it ends up being a longer term solution. Normally those aren’t recommended because we all want our buns to eat hay, but this is a special circumstance!

 

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[13Tskhmaster]

Petsmart willing, we bought Oxbow Adult Essentials (called Bunny Basics on Chewy.com). It was recommended to us by one of the specialists. Here’s hoping it works…

[DanaNM]

Yep, that’s a very good brand. 🙂 Start off by offering just a teaspoon for a couple days (even if she loves it), to allow her tummy to get used to it, then slowly work up to the recommended amount based on her weight.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[13Tskhmaster]

I’ll try 🙂 I just worry about friction from my family because we’re all so frustrated with this situation. If Hunny loves them, my mother especially (due to hating Critical Care time) will want to give our girl as many as she can eat. My voice is usually silenced pretty quickly.

[DanaNM]

Well hopefully she will at least follow the instructions on the bag, even if she doesn’t listen to a stranger on the internet. 😉

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[13Tskhmaster]

Hopefully lol. We’re all such strong-willed people with different opinions. We all have some form of anxiety, and we all love Hunny. Not only is the situation frustrating, but our interactions are because we all want the same thing but go about it different ways.

I just pray we have a breakthrough with this pellets. The vets have really been next to no help. They’re just taking our money and making us feel like annoyances.

[Hazel]

I feed the same brand, my bunny loves them. Pellets are good for rabbits, in moderation. Hay is great for keeping their teeth as well as their digestive tract in tip-top condition, but it has very little nutritional value. A rabbit that doesn’t get any pellets would need a huge amount and variety of different vegetables to get all the nutrients they need.

The recommended amount of pellets to feed is 1/4 to 1/2 of a cup per 6lbs of body weight, daily. For example, my rabbit weighs 3lbs (if I remember correctly, Hunny is about the same weight?), and I feed him 1/8 of a cup. That’s on the lower end, technically I could go up to 1/4, but he holds his weight well with the smaller amount. 🙂

Of course, as Dana said, you want to start slowly.

[13Tskhmaster]

Yup, Hunny is about the same weight! I’ll give those amounts a try. I just hope my girl can eat them. Her recent chewing problems aside, she has never had pellets before and is either hesitant or disinterested in new food. She’s such a diva lol

[13Tskhmaster]

I just checked on Hunny and noticed she did a bunch of poops outside the tube she likes to sleep in, while she normally uses her litter box. I’m not sure if this is waste or the cecotropes she’s tried to eat and been unable to chew.

Also worried because it looks like the fur is thinning a bit on one of Hunny’s ears. I just noticed this today…

[13Tskhmaster]

I took a closer look at Hunny’s thinning ear. It’s her right one, there is still fur, but I can see the skin clear through it. There is one tiny raised flake of skin, no major dandruff or anything. No excessive scratching, grooming or head shaking.

Hunny was grinding her teeth a lot in pain (or a bizarre purring? I can’t tell anymore) while I was in with her. I found a lot more poops outside her tube, too…

[13Tskhmaster]

No luck with pellets, so far. Hunny has no interest in them. She nibbled some romaine and inhaled a thumbnail-sized piece of apple, but that’s all she ate today, apart from 26 ml of Critical Care (that’s all we can get in her before she gets squirmy and almost hurts herself trying to escape her burrito). We’re supposed to be getting 30-50 ml in Hunny per feeding, but we just can’t seem to make things work. We’ve tried pretty much everything. We even had one of the specialists record a feeding, in which she fed Hunny effortlessly, almost as if she were a different rabbit (this vet is very full of herself and bragged she has 10+ years experience, so that’s likely why).

I’m just at such a loss. Nothing we try works. Hunny still won’t/can’t eat. Vets are being little-to-no help, continuously referring us to other clinics. I worry about everything Hunny does now, from grooming/scratching an itch (could it be mites, thus thinning ear hair?), to flopping/sprawling out to rest (I think she’s doing it a lot more than usual). I am continuously brought back to the unpleasant place I’ve complained about before: a state of feeling defeated, overwhelmed, and only able to see a negative outcome.

[LBJ10]

The bald patch on her ear could be from an IV being inserted into that vein.

I’m hesitant to suggest this since she isn’t used to eating pellets, but what about junior/young bunny formula pellets? They contain alfalfa, so they have a sweeter taste. The adult formula is sweet too… I’m just trying to think what would be enticing. You wouldn’t be able to feed it to her long-term though. If you kept feeding pellets, you would need to switch to the adult formula. I’m surprised she won’t take the Critical Care willingly. A hungry bunny usually eats it willingly. I may have missed it above, but have you tried putting it in a dish?

What about rolled oats?

[Hazel]

I hate to sound like a broken record, but, baby food…

What’s the plan regarding her lower incisors? Do they want to try regular trims, or remove them?

[Wick & Fable]

Doing critical care in a different setting may work. Many times rabbits are pretty shell shocked at the vet so vets sometimes have an advantage to catch them off guard.

I’m reading that she inhaled a piece of apple, so clearly she is eating. Remember that. Things take time. Even if you do things “right”, she will likely not magically become normal again. Imagine it like physical therapy for a broken leg. Even if the PT gets the person through all the motions, there will still be struggle and they will not recover and be able to walk after a couple sessions.

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[13Tskhmaster]

@LBJ10 – I hope you’re right about the thinning patch on Hunny’s ear. I did see a tiny black dot through the fur; could be a scab or something from where an IV was injected. Why would it be placed there, though? Will the fur grow back? We have tried giving Hunny pellets in a dish, but she isn’t interested. Aside from the fleshy parts of apples (Hunny can’t chew the skin), our girl won’t eat unless we force-feed her Critical Care. She must be starving, but she shows next to no interest in food, and even when she does, she only nibbles it. That’s why we’re so baffled and frustrated by this whole thing. We just want our girl to eat again, but we can’t figure out why she won’t. Even the vets can’t…

@Hazel – We haven’t been given any sort of plan regarding Hunny’s lower incisors. I worry about them a lot now, but the vets either don’t care or aren’t concerned about them enough to say immediate action needs to be taken. They have already been filed once, but I fear that was an irreversible mistake.

@Wick – We have thought about changing the Critical Care location. The issue is finding a place where we can comfortably feed Hunny while she is burrito’d, and any surface lower than the island in our kitchen (where we’ve been doing feedings and meds) makes it hard to see and reach her mouth (as does the fur Hunny has growing near her lips). Hunny may have eaten the apple, but she isn’t really eating, apart from the Critical Care. She has ample food sources but shows no interest in any of them. If she does go exploring, she can’t chew what she puts in her mouth. Our girl has lived on Critical Care since June 1, which isn’t natural. We are so frustrated with the situation. At this point, we’d give anything to see Hunny eat normally again. We just don’t know what’s wrong with her and how long it’ll take before she can eat/chew. Eventually, we will run out of Critical Care and medicine. We can get more from the vet, sure, but eventually I worry my family will say “What’s the point,” and I’ll have to say goodbye to Hunny…

[Hazel]

Don’t worry about the teeth filing, even if they did it too short, they always grow back. However, if they’re so badly misaligned that she can’t chew even with them filed down, they would have to be removed. That’s really the only thing I can think of that might be keeping her from eating at this point, other than pain. I don’t know what dosage of pain medicine she’s on right now, but if it’s high enough that pain shouldn’t be an issue, then I would go back to assuming the incisors are causing the problem.

As far as the Critical Care goes, you can make your own substitute at home. Just grind up some of the pellets and mix them with water (or even better, baby food to get a smoother consistency/better taste) then feed via syringe.

[Wick & Fable]

How often is the critical care feeding schedule at this point? Part of me wonders if some of the food disinterest may come from carryover satiation from critical care? Maybe?

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[13Tskhmaster]

@Hazel – The specialists we’ve seen aren’t making a big deal about the misalignment. They’re more concerned about deeper issues like EC. I would hope if the misalignment were so bad the teeth had to come out, they would have told us. Maybe we’ll reach that point (I hope not), but we’re not there yet.

As far as the Critical Care, the taste doesn’t seem to be the issue. It’s something in regards to HOW we are feeding her, rather than what.

@Wick – We feed Hunny CC three times a day. I think there is some validity to carry-over, but wouldn’t you think Hunny would be starving right now?

As a general observation, my girl has done some poops and pee today. Poops look almost normal, but not quite, and still too few due to lack of food intake. Not a lot of pee for the same reason. Just happy Hunny’s doing it.

My dad says he saw Hunny eat 15 pellets, some cilantro, and romaine nibbles. I trust his observation but wish I had gotten to see this myself. Hunny and I had some good snuggles. Behavior-wise, she is still my sweet, special girl. That makes me feel better but also adds to the puzzle…

[Wick & Fable]

Especially when my Wick was younger, I’d say his energy level had more to do with his eating than how full/hungry he was, haha. A common sentiment I express is the idea of food security — when an animal understands that it will have a stable food source, it is less likely to eat immediately and with as much haste. There are many stories of rabbits who used to eat all their pellets or veggies in one-go, and now no longer so that. My Wick is one. There’s also just the simple idea that routine food can be boring so there’s less enthusiasm to eat.

If the feedings are happening three times a day, that’s well spaced to keep her satiated, I would think? My rabbits get a handful of pellets in the morning and then a plate of veggies at night. The rest of the day is hay only, so outside of munching on hay, there’s not much there. I imagine critical care is more filling than hay because of how nutrient dense it is. Critical Care is designed as a complete substitute to everything for animals in recovery, so it might be more filling as a result?

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[LBJ10]

The ear offers a very good vein, so it’s not unusual for a vet to place an IV there. If you see a scab, then I’m going to guess that’s what it is. The fur should grow back eventually.

Have you tried mixing up some critical care, putting it in a dish and then just leaving it with her? She might eat it after a while, when no one is watching. I agree with Hazel that mixing something tasty into it might help.

Wick makes a good point. She could feel full from the critical care. We have seen this a few times on the forum where the owner had to ease back on the critical care a little bit to get their bunny to start eating on their own.

[13Tskhmaster]

I will keep the filling nature of Critical Care in mind, going forward. That said, today was a good eating day for Hunny! My girl ate 15 pellets and some pieces of cilantro this morning, seven more pellets over the course of the afternoon, and she took several bites of mashed/soaked pellets this evening! Hay still seems too difficult; I watched Hunny struggle to consume tiny pieces she was pulling off a toy in her cage. Hunny did drink some water when it was offered, and she also took some from the bowl inside her cage. I’m proud of the eating my girl did today; I hope she continues to improve!

I do still worry about Hunny’s teeth, especially knowing the bottom incisors are misaligned. The vets don’t seem to think it’s a big deal, but I heard my girl do some weird tooth-grinding this evening (potentially due to pain), and I’ve seen it a few times on-and-off since the filing we did at the start of all this (remember, it was too short for the specialist’s liking, apparently). The grinding I heard today sounds like a loud “chewing.” It was not the clicking sound I heard a week or so ago (definitely pain), but it was definitely not soft enough to be the purring I’m used to hearing (which Hunny also did today, unless I’m mistaken). Perhaps my girl’s Meloxicam had yet to kick in?

Anyways, please send my girl some positive/healing vibes and pray the good eating I observed continues! As always, thank you all for your support!

[Louiethebunny]

YAY! so happy shes eating!

[Hazel]

I agree with Wick, it might be worth a try to feed her less Critical Care, it is mainly meant for rabbits who eat basically nothing. Since she is eating some, she might just never get hungry/motivated enough in between CC feedings. Keep in mind she likely eats more than you see, since you can’t watch her every second of the day and night. Maybe cut it down to two feedings a day instead of three and see if it improves her appetite.

So happy she’s taken a liking to the pellets! As I said in my previous post, even though CC is more nutrient dense, it is still quite similar to regular pellets, so if she’s eating a good amount of pellets she won’t need as much CC.

[13Tskhmaster]

We are reducing our Critical Care feedings from three a day to two (one in the morning, one in the evening). We have two plates of mushed pellets spread out in Hunny’s corral. She took a couple nibbles and did a lot of poops overnight. I hope Hunny eats on her own now that she’ll have a chance to be hungrier. I just worry because we’ve never been able to get the required amount of Critical Care in, so I don’t know how full/how nutrient-satiated my girl actually is. I miss my little eating machine and hope we’re on-track to getting her back!

[Wick & Fable]

Glad to hear the improvements!

To bring in my personal experience, just one case, again, I do not find myself too concerned with the teeth grinding situation. My Wick has misaligned incisors and an underbite (you can see in the pic that the bottom incisors are not directly below the top and that they stick out more than what you’d expect on a rabbit. His top incisors are always very short as a result).

His first vet filed his bottom incisors essentially to the gum pretty often to delay how frequently we needed to go in as he was growing up. I wouldn’t be surprised if the teeth were close to back to their length prior to the procedure by this time, based on how fast rabbit teeth grow honestly! Many rabbits can manage very well with non-perfect teeth, so don’t let that obstacle seem bigger than it may be.

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[DanaNM]

That sounds like great improvements!!! Way to go Hunny!

FYI  Don’t leave mashed pellets or CC out for more than an hour or so without refreshing it (I think there are guidelines on this on the CC package as well). Once mixed with water it can grow molds very fast and become dangerous.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[13Tskhmaster]

Yesterday was slow, overall, with no major changes until after dinnertime (8:00-9:00 PM-onward). Hunny took several bites of pellet mush, romaine, and cilantro. She had varying difficulty with each, but it was a joy to see her seeking out food by herself and eating it. We aren’t at the stage yet where Hunny can eat a piece of romaine in its entirety like her old self, but it was a joy to watch her nibbling the green parts. She did a little bit of pee in the night but lots of poops, and I’d like to think they look normal-sized, if not normal-colored!

So far, it’s been the same thing today as it was yesterday: no eating apart from the occasional nibble of mush, and lots of sleeping in a favorite hiding place. We could barely get any Critical Care in Hunny this morning, but she took her medicine like a good girl.

I’m hoping Hunny continues to improve, but of course I worry. To me, it seems like her progress level resets/regresses over night. I get bunnies are less active during the day, but seeing my girl still unwilling/unable to try the food we give her each day (let alone finish it) is disheartening.

Trying my best to stay positive and patient, though. Hunny has definitely made some progress. I have to remember that!

[Hazel]

Sounds like she’s doing quite well, it’s slow going but any improvement is great!

[13Tskhmaster]

Today was uneventful, overall. Hunny spent most of the day sleeping in her tube. She showed no interest in food, save for a broccoli leaf my mother gave her before I woke up this morning and the occasional nibble or two of soaked pellets. Our girl continued to have trouble eating cecotropes, but she did a good job taking her medicine and Critical Care. Hunny had an additional 26 pellets after we had dinner. I was not able to observe any peeing or pooping, unfortunately, but there was poop in the litter box from overnight.

We got Hunny’s E.C. test results back today. Thankfully, she does not have it! That said, we are still at a loss as to why our girl can’t/won’t eat. The specialist who ordered the E.C. test in the first place said we could send Hunny to a neurologist in New York (several miles away) that is not accepting new patients, but we are not about to put Hunny through that. I really don’t like that specialist’s attitude, and my family is as fed-up with her as I am. Our current game-plan is to continue with the treatment prescribed by the previous specialist we saw (the one who did the X-rays), and take things from there.

I feel like I am stuck in limbo, and I hate it. My family and I are so frustrated we still don’t know what is wrong with Hunny, especially after all the money we have spent and all the stress we have put her through. We want to treat our girl properly and make her well again, but the end is long out-of-sight. We are trying our best to stay positive and patient. Hunny has definitely made a small amount of progress since this started; I’m hoping by this time next week or the week after, that amount of progress will increase, even if it’s just the tiniest bit…

[LBJ10]

Are you planning to continue the EC treatment? EC is funny… it’s notoriously difficult to actually test for. There are false negatives that make you think EC isn’t the problem when it really is. And then there are also positives, but just because the bunny was exposed to EC and tests positive doesn’t mean EC is what is causing the problem at hand. What I’m saying is, it might be best to continue the Panacur for the scheduled amount of time just in case. It won’t hurt her if it isn’t EC. I’m not trying to freak you out even more than you already are, I just want to make sure you are aware of the possibility.

I’m glad to hear she has been showing some interest in food. I hope you will be able to try adding something to the critical care, it might make her more willing to take it. She might even take it from a spoon or dish, instead of the syringe. If, of course, she is actually hungry and wanting to eat. She is pooping regardless, so that is a good thing. This still points toward a problem with the mouth, whether it’s pain/discomfort or something just not working right.

[Hazel]

Agree with LBJ. EC tests aren’t all that reliable unfortunately.

I know this isn’t likely given her age, but did any of the vets consider the idea that she might have had a stroke? Have you noticed even a slight change on the way she moves, stiffness or odd movement on one side of her body? Sudden difficulty with movement (at least as far as her mouth is concerned) and the slight head tilt could be signs of a mild stroke. Of course there really wouldn’t be any way to confirm that, or do much about it other than what you’re already doing and hoping that in time she will recover.

[13Tskhmaster]

@LBJ10 – We were given very specific instructions to stop giving Hunny Panacur.

@Hazel – I have not noticed the issues you described. I worry about them as far as her mouth goes, but that’s it.

Hunny apparently ate more pellets in the night (can’t tell how many because my father replaced them before I woke up), and she ate a piece of cilantro stalk.

[13Tskhmaster]

There have been no major changes the past couple days. Hunny spends her time sleeping in her tube, cuddling with us, et cetera. She takes small sips of water when we offer it to her, but otherwise, the only eating she does apart from Critical Care is the occasional few bites of squashed pellets. Our girl barely uses her teeth for anything anymore; I notice she compensates by using her paws instead. The only “teeth usage” we see from Hunny is the occasional communicative nip (not as many as usual) or tiny bites at the sides of the water dish before drinking.

On the plus-side, I would say Hunny’s poops look normal! We just can’t get our girl to eat…My money is on a dental issue, but what could she have aside from the malocclusion that a CT scan/x-ray wouldn’t pick up?

[Hazel]

Normal looking poops are great, that’s progress. Have you noticed any change in her appetite since you went down to just two CC feedings per day?

[13Tskhmaster]

Alas, Hunny’s appetite has not improved. She takes occasional bites of mashed pellets, usually in the evening, but that’s all. She seems to have given up entirely on hay and veggies; the most we see her do with those is play with them.

We have realized Hunny responds to humming during Critical Care feedings; we do not know if it’s the sound she likes or the vibrations, but we were able to get over 100 ml in her yesterday and the day before!

I noticed Hunny was grinding her teeth a lot today, mostly when I was petting her and while she was sleeping in her tube. While in the tube, she was moving her mouth like a cow does when it’s chewing. I still worry Hunny has a dental issue that doesn’t show up on a CT scan or x-ray, but the specialist said we can rule out dental problems when we called her this morning. We scheduled a consultation with a neurologist for tomorrow afternoon at the specialist’s urging; I’m worried about what, if anything, will come of that…

[LBJ10]

I was just coming here to see if there was an update on Hunny. I’m sorry to see there hasn’t been improvement. It sounds like she is steady though, so that’s good.

If they are pushing you to see a neurologist, then I’m still curious why they said to stop the Panacur. It makes no sense to me. In the end, it probably is a dental issue… but at one point EC was suspected, so I don’t feel like that should have been completely taken out of the running.

[13Tskhmaster]

What makes this so hard is Hunny is technically my mother’s rabbit. I therefore have to “go with the flow” in this process. I voice my opinion when I can, but otherwise, my family says to just “trust the vets.” Like I said, we were given specific instructions to stop the Panacur. I have no clue why, other than the fact Hunny’s tests came back negative. I personally think it’s a dental issue, too, but my family can’t grasp the logic of that, as nothing showed up on Hunny’s CT scan or x-rays.

I have no means of taking things into my own hands, here. I try to share this community’s advice, but my family prefers to follow the vets’ guidance. I’m left feeling powerless and more frustrated.

Regardless, the next step is to give Hunny an MRI. Depending on what that gleans, we’ll get back in touch with the specialist and see what our options are. I just worry my family will give up on Hunny because of frustration and how hard it is to feed Critical Care. Like I said, my girl still has so much life in her. I just wish I could feel like my family and I were all approaching this the same way. I’m one to ere on the side of caution and prevent instead of treat, but my family is more keen on the vets’ thoughts because Hunny has now seen six, and they are all in agreement.

[LBJ10]

Well… I guess the benefit of an MRI is it will show any lesions (if present). Most people don’t go that far because an MRI would be expensive. They would just treat for suspected EC. But, hey, if they find lesions then I guess that would be an answer to the EC question. And if they don’t, then… well, it has to be dental. I just don’t know what else it would be if not a neurological thing. Is Hunny still getting pain medication?

[13Tskhmaster]

Yes, she still gets Meloxicam every day.

[Hazel]

What did the neurologist say?

[13Tskhmaster]

The neurologist took Hunny in for a basic exam and said he didn’t see anything that appeared abnormal. He also said not to bother with an MRI because it likely will not yield any new information; it would put Hunny through needless trauma. He theorized that Hunny could have a neurological issue that weakens her mouth and jaw, even though her bite-strength seemed normal to him. I do not remember what the condition is called, but I know dogs apparently get it, and it can be diagnosed via blood test. The neurologist wasn’t sure if the same test would work for rabbits, but he is trying to get in contact with the lab in California that does the tests to see if it can indeed be done. He took blood from Hunny yesterday just in case, and he said if the test will indeed work for rabbits, we’ll get the test results back in five-seven days from when he gets that answer and sends the blood. Depending on what happens next, we’ll have to go back to the drawing board. If Hunny does have this condition, the neurologist said it is treatable, so thank God for that.

No major developments to report today. Hunny’s poop looks great, considering she isn’t doing as much as she should due to lack of eating. Same for pee. Critical Care has been a nightmare the past couple days, but Hunny has taken occasional nibbles of pellets (I’d say she visits the dish and takes a couple every few hours). My mind of course races, worrying about dental issues, E.C., stomach things, etc. So much of that has been ruled out (or seemingly so) based on the x-rays and CT scans, but we are no closer to finding a solution. We’re grasping at straws, so all we could really do right now is be preventative. Who knows how many drugs we’d have to pump into Hunny, if that were the case? I feel bad just giving her Meloxicam and Gabapentin for what could be no reason; it’s almost like she’s a lab rat.

I worry due to Hunny’s lack of improvement. She also flops a lot more than I’m used to seeing (it’s been that way since this started), but it’s likely a mix of exhaustion from squirming during Critical Care feedings and side-effects of one of the meds: drowsiness. Hunny is still affectionate and has periods of mischievousness, so that’s a plus. She is definitely not acting sickly. I also still stress about Hunny’s tooth-grinding; today’s was mostly the “purring” kind, but I noticed one of the times she flopped, she was making cow-like (side-to-side) chewing motions without having anything in her mouth. I’ve seen that on-and-off dozens of times over the past few weeks.

[LBJ10]

So the neurologist does think it’s something neurological? But nobody wants to continue the EC treatment just to be sure? I think that if it is a neurological problem, it is much more likely to be EC than this condition that affects dogs. That’s just my thought.

[13Tskhmaster]

The neurologist said nothing about E.C., and none of the other vets/specialists think it’s a good idea to treat Hunny for it, thus my family doesn’t, regardless of what I may think. It has been ruled out entirely. The condition the neurologist thinks Hunny may have is myasthenia gravis. He had us send him videos of Hunny eating so he could double-check. As far as I know, we haven’t heard back from him since Hunny’s appointment earlier in the week.

Now for a progress report: Hunny’s condition remains stable. She takes the occasional nibbles from her plate of mashed pellets, and her poops remain nice and healthy-looking. Everything else remains the same. Whether because she has given up or she has gotten worse somehow (I hope not), Hunny does not even attempt to eat hay or greens anymore. She is still flopping a lot and grinding her teeth.

[Hazel]

Treating her for EC wouldn’t do any harm even if she doesn’t have it. And as has been mentioned already, the test is notoriously unreliable. The vets (and certainly a specialist) should be aware of both of these facts, so I don’t know why they would refuse to treat her. Especially since they don’t really have any other answers.

I know your family won’t allow it, but you could treat her without the help of a vet, you can get Panacur over the counter at feed stores.

[13Tskhmaster]

I understand treating Hunny for E.C. as a precaution would not harm her, but I cannot go against my family’s wishes, which are to “trust the vets” and “not treat things for the sake of treating them.” Of the five or six vets Hunny has seen since this started, only one has observed a “very slight” head tilt. Even if the vets we see do not love Hunny the way my family and I do, I would think if the others observed a head tilt, they would have the decency to tell us and urge us to continue the E.C. treatment. That was not the case, not because they don’t want to contradict each other, but because they agree it is not the right course of action.

A tech just called to give us the latest from the neurology center: The doctor Hunny saw has confirmed the myasthenia gravis test can also work for rabbits. He has sent a blood sample to the lab in California, and we should get the results back next week. The neurologist has also watched the latest videos of Hunny eating and will go over them with us once he has the test results. I must say I was reading about nerve damage in rabbits on an “Ask a Vet” site, and the symptoms people were reporting sound similar to mine: “Rabbit forgot how to eat,” “Food getting impacted in mouth,” et cetera.

I apologize if I am sounding rude. I think you are both giving very good advice, even if I cannot follow it. That said, I hope we get somewhere with this new blood test. Let’s hope for the best!

[DanaNM]

Don’t worry, you don’t sound rude. We know you’ve been put through the ringer with this ordeal!

Wow, I had to google myasthenia gravis, I have never heard of it. It seems to be very rare, but not unheard of. I hope you are able to get some answers soon.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[LBJ10]

Dana – Myasthenia gravis is rare in rabbits. It is one of the hypothesized underlying causes of “head-down” syndrome (aka floppy bunny syndrome)… although this was never confirmed. Myasthenia gravis is characterized by extreme muscle weakness (particularly in the front limbs) and difficulty swallowing. EC would be the major differential diagnosis.

13Tskhmaster – No one thinks you’re being rude. We understand the difficult situation you are in. We’re just trying to help and it’s frustrating, but we know you have no control over it. We are not vets and we can’t diagnose your bunny. We are just a house bunny community with members who are experienced with these types of things. After dental issues, EC is the next logical explanation. Hunny is not exhibiting the traditional symptoms of EC… but we have seen enough atypical EC cases here on BB that we try not to rule it out in these situations. We just want what’s best for Hunny. If there is even the slightest possibility of EC, then it’s difficult to understand why the vet wouldn’t want to treat for it just in case. She might improve… and if she doesn’t, no harm done.

On the bright side, the blood test for myasthenia gravis will tell you whether she actually has it or not. If she does, then it is chronic but treatable condition (in dogs anyway, I don’t know how treatable it is in rabbits). If she doesn’t have it, then I would suggest pushing the vet to explore other possible conditions. There is EC, of course, but there is also head-down syndrome and other similar disorders. Medirabbit has an interesting article, which includes a case example (Twilight’s story): http://www.medirabbit.com/EN/Neurology/Differentials/Head_down.htm

[13Tskhmaster]

@DanaNM – Thank you for understanding. I also hope we get some answers from this latest blood test. I had not heard of myasthenia gravis either, until the neurologist mentioned it.

@LBJ10 – I know you guys are just trying to help. I appreciate it, believe me! At this point, I have no choice but to do what my family thinks is best: trust the vets. That said, I believe this community’s advice is valuable, and I will continue to update you all on Hunny’s situation.

_______________________________________________________________________________________

GOOD NEWS: Between last night and this afternoon, Hunny has eaten more soaked pellets than ever before (not counting the ones turn into dust). My mother told me our girl ate two small dishes’ worth, close to the minimum required amount for a healthy rabbit. We believe this is why we had a tough time giving Hunny her Critical Care today. Hopefully, this is a sign things will eventually improve!

[Hazel]

That’s great! If she keeps it up, you could probably go down to one CC feeding a day.

I brought up the possibility of a stroke before thinking nerve damage might be the issue. If the test comes back negative, I would ask the neurologist about that. Although unlikely, it is a possibility. Recovery from a stroke is extremely slow going, if the vet deems this a possible cause it might keep your family from giving up on Hunny prematurely.

You’re not being rude. You’re trying to do what’s best for Hunny, you want her to get better and so do we. 🙂

[13Tskhmaster]

When I get the results of Hunny’s myasthenia gravis test, I will definitely keep this community’s advice in mind. I am not sure what steps the neurologist will want to take, but I will try to give him your suggestions, assuming my family doesn’t dismiss them as mere things I read online while researching due to my OCD…

Regardless of what happens, thank you all for your support and continued care! It means a lot, believe me! 🙂

It’s been another uneventful day, so far; unfortunately, it seems Hunny’s increased interest in pellets was a one-time thing. My family says she took a couple nibbles of escarole, but that’s all she’s had aside from Critical Care, which continues to be a nightmare to give. On the plus side, there are plenty of poops and a decent amount of pee in Hunny’s litter box. My girl is maintaining a weight of 1.3-1.35 kg.

I wonder what Hunny will do this evening; I will be away for most of the afternoon and night at a family party. I must admit, part of me wishes I could stay home and keep an eye on her…

[LBJ10]

Just checking in with Hunny. Do you know when the test results will come back?

[13Tskhmaster]

No significant changes. Critical Care has been very hard to give the past few days; Hunny’s weight went down .1 or .2 kg (she was 1.32kg this morning).

Hunny’s blood test was sent to the lab in California on June 3, three days ago. We were told it would take five to seven days for results to come in. Nothing yet, but in a few days, we should have something.

[LBJ10]

Still no interest in other foods? Or does it still come and go?

[13Tskhmaster]

Every few hours (sometimes longer), Hunny stops at her dish of soaked pellets and takes several bites. Over the past couple days, I have watched her try to eat hay and greens, but she cannot chew them. They fall out of her mouth, seemingly untouched, even though I just watched her work on them for a good two minutes. It’s the same with her cecotropes.

 

[LBJ10]

At least she is still trying! Hopefully she will start getting more food down. I assume you have already tried shredding the greens up into little pieces? Sometimes that helps if a bunny is having trouble manipulating large things into their mouth.

[13Tskhmaster]

Yes, at least Hunny tries. I just wish she would more frequently. She’s gotta be hungry…

Unfortunately, Hunny has trouble eating even tiny pieces of hay/greens. It’s like she’s forgotten how to chew/use her mouth.

[pinkiemarie]

I feel so bad for Hunny. Any more news?

[13Tskhmaster]

Hunny remains stable. No changes to report.

[Hazel]

Any news on the blood test? How is she doing?

[13Tskhmaster]

No word yet on the results of the blood test, unfortunately.

Hunny remains stable. She is maintaining a weight of 1.35 kg, the heaviest she’s been since she saw the specialist a few weeks ago.

We have been reducing the number of Critical Care feedings to see if we can trigger Hunny’s instinct to eat, but it has yielded mixed results. The few feedings we try, Hunny wants no part of. At the same time, she takes occasional visits to her pellet dish and eats most of the soaked pellets that are there. Last night, she apparently cleared the whole dish! During the day, though, it’s more normal for Hunny to take a few bites then hop away. It’s hard to gauge how much my girl is actually eating. She shows no interest in hay/greens.

[Hazel]

If she’s fighting the CC feedings I guess she’s just not very hungry, which is good. It means she’s eating a decent amount on her own and she’s keeping her weight up as well. 🙂  I hope you get some news about the blood test soon.

[13Tskhmaster]

I hope I hear back about the blood test soon, too. My family and I worry Hunny will never be able to eat hay or veggies again…

Doom and gloom aside, the past couple days, things have been going as well as they can with our girl. Yesterday, in addition to pellets, Hunny ate 81 ml of Critical Care, which is more than she had the previous three days, combined. Today, Hunny has only had one feeding so far, but we got 31 ml in her! There are lots of good-sized poops in the litter box.

[LBJ10]

I imagine the results won’t be very speedy considering everything else that going on in the world right now. Hopefully you will get them back soon. Thank you for the update on Hunny. It sounds like she’s still hanging in there!

[13Tskhmaster]

She’s going as strong as she can and actually is gaining some weight back! She was only down 1/10 of a pound at her lightest, but it makes me happy! The only thing I worry about aside from the obvious is her hydration level…She hasn’t been being as much the past few days…

[Wick & Fable]

She is probably getting some hydration due to the CC. A big contributor for thirst is how drying eating hay is, so if a rabbit isn’t eating hay, it makes sense they may not drink as much water as you’d expect.

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[13Tskhmaster]

Here is the latest on Hunny:

No word yet on the results of the blood test. Hunny is maintaining a weight of 1.38 kg. She eats 1-3 dishes of soaked pellets a day, minus what disintegrates into dust. She still cannot eat hay or greens. Hunny occasionally drinks water. She has had several good Critical Care feedings this week; we only did one feeding today to try and gauge what her eating is like, and she got 50 ml. There is a decent amount of normal-looking poops in Hunny’s litter box, but I still worry about her peeing (though, it has been better the past couple days).

I am worried about Hunny’s medicine schedule tomorrow. Normally, she has one dose of Gabapentin at 10:00 AM, and another at 10:00 PM (one dose every 12 hours). However, we will be out of the house at a family event tomorrow morning from 9:00 AM-12:00 PM or later, which means we have to change distribution times. Since Hunny’s been sick, my mother and sister have taken on the job of giving her meds. They are currently deciding amongst themselves whether it’d be better to give Hunny a new 8:00 AM-8:00 PM medicine schedule, or skip tomorrow’s morning dose and keep the 10:00 PM one. Hunny also takes Meloxicam with her evening dose of Gaba; I worry about the meds and their effects on Hunny’s body now that we have this party messing everything up. I offered to stay home and do the meds myself, but my family wouldn’t have it.

[DanaNM]

I would give tonight’s dose an hour early (at 9 pm), then the morning dose at 8 am (so it’s just an hour off each time). I don’t think it would not be a good idea to skip a dose entirely and then be gone for the day.

Adjusting things by an hour or two shouldn’t be a problem.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[13Tskhmaster]

Hunny had her evening dose of Gabapentin at 10:00 PM, as scheduled (it’s already almost 11:00 PM here, as my timezone is EST). Would she be okay getting it again at 8:00 AM and then at 8:00 PM tomorrow, or should we wait until 10:00 PM again as per our original schedule? In other words:

Normal Schedule

10:00 AM – Gabapentin

10:00 PM – Gabapentin, Meloxicam

Adjusted Schedule (due to family event)

8:00 AM – Gabapentin

8:00 PM – Gabapentin, Meloxicam

or

Adjusted Schedule 2 (due to family event)

8:00 AM – Gabapentin

10:00 PM – Gabapentin, Meloxicam

[DanaNM]

I think either would be fine, but it seems like she’s in discomfort you could give it at 8 pm to keep the 12 hour cycle.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[13Tskhmaster]

Still no word yet on the results of Hunny’s blood test. That said, we have stopped Critical Care feedings because Hunny has been eating a sufficient amount of soaked pellets on her own to maintain a weight of 1.39-1.4kg. We are monitoring her closely and keeping the Critical Care on-hand, however, if things take a turn for the worst. There continues to be a good amount of poops in Hunny’s litter box, and I continue to worry about her pee, but my girl always drinks water when it is offered to her and occasionally seeks it out on her own, so at least she’s getting hydration. Hunny also continues to be her mischievous, loving self, so that’s good!

Right now, I believe we are researching rabbit dentists. Hunny’s teeth-grinding and the malocclusion still worry me, so hopefully we can find someone to check her out soon. Thus far, the only pet dentists we’ve been able to track down only see dogs and cats…

[Louiethebunny]

The House Rabbit Society has a list of rabbit vets in various areas, you could try looking there?

[Wick & Fable]

There aren’t usually vets who advertise as “rabbit dentists”– it’s more so a rabbit veterinarian who is experienced with rabbit dental procedures. Since dental problems with rabbits are common, the chances of finding one is usually pretty good. A good strategy may be calling up vets and asking what dental procedures they’ve done and how often.

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[13Tskhmaster]

My original post isn’t showing up:

We took Hunny to the dentist today. He anesthetized her and filed down her misaligned front teeth. He also took x-rays and found an abscess near one of my girl’s back molars. The dentist prescribed orbifloxacin, an antibiotic not FDA-approved for rabbits but apparently safe for them. We are to give Hunny the drug once a day for four weeks. If her condition doesn’t improve, Hunny will need the infected molar extracted, as well as the tooth nearby since the “problem one” can’t be easily accessed. My family isn’t too keen on the idea of constant maintenance the aftermath of such surgery would require, which worries me. I am also scared about the orbifloxacin itself. The most common side-effect is upset stomach/diarrhea, but we get conflicting reports about it and whether or not we should give it on an empty stomach or with food. We had to burrito Hunny to dispense the meds; I’m so scared of what this could be doing to her. What should we do? The only information I can find about orbifloxacin online is intended for dog/cat owners, and that says it’s intended for skin abscesses, not those of the mouth, at least in those animals. Is this dentist a fool? Should I be scared? We will of course be monitoring Hunny closely, but my family is very stressed and worried we are hurting our girl, not helping her…

[13Tskhmaster]

Here’s the latest on Hunny:

1.) Even though we were told the blood test had been sent out, we eventually found out it never was.

2.) Hunny has gotten by the past two weeks by eating only soaked pellets. She occasionally tried to eat hay but could never get anywhere with it and instead used it almost like a toy.

3.) We took Hunny to a dentist claiming to be experienced with rabbits today. He anesthetized her and did some x-rays. He filed Hunny’s misaligned front teeth and found an abscess near one of Hunny’s back molars. He prescribed orbifloxacin, which we are to give Hunny orally once a day for three-to-four weeks (0.6 ml a day, if I remember correctly). The dentist says if this antibiotic doesn’t do the trick, Hunny will need the tooth pulled, and likely the one nearby, since it’s in an area that can’t be accessed easily, so nearby teeth would be “collateral,” to use his word. Praying it doesn’t get to that point. My family is very worried about the orbifloxacin. For one thing, it isn’t approved for rabbits, and there is no information I can find online about it that isn’t intended for dogs and cats (the drug has been used on rabbits before, but isn’t FDA-approved). We get conflicting information about giving it to Hunny with or without food; the most common side-effect is upset stomach and diarrhea, which really worries me. Hunny is still very groggy from the anesthesia, and we had to burrito her to give this dosage of meds, which is frustrating because she liked the meloxicam and gabapentin and took it with no trouble (she’s been off those two meds for about four days, now, per the dentist’s orders). The several vets Hunny has seen since this started have basically given us the boot. I really wonder why no one saw the abscess before if they supposedly gave her such a thorough examination. Really scared and worried about my girl. I have no choice but to trust this latest doctor, but I don’t feel safe giving Hunny the orbifloxacin…What should I do? Do I need to worry? We will of course be monitoring her closely; my mother wants to give Hunny critical care later since she hasn’t touched her pellets that much this afternoon, but I’m not sure that’s the best idea…

[jerseygirl]

Hi there

I wouldn’t be too worried about the orbifloxacin. It’s in same “family” of antibiotics as baytril. Many of the meds we give rabbits are actually used off-label ie. don’t have official approval for use in rabbits. It’s a shame as so many are probably tested on rabbits before coming into the market!

She may be a little off food in the 1st day or 2 when starting a new antibiotic, so it’s good that you have critical care on hand. Hopefully you won’t have to use it. I’d encourage she eat on her own as much as possible. Much less stress for her and her humans!

Do you think you could find some 100% hay pellets online or locally? That might be something you can give to her unlimited so you needn’t worry about her fibre intake.

Fingers crossed the antibiotic helps with the abscess. And that she takes it more readily once she’s feeling more like herself.

[jerseygirl]

If it provides any peace of mind, I did a search of various forums and found orbax being prescribed for rabbits for various ailments as far back as 2011. One of our newer members here had their bunny on it recently.

[DanaNM]

As upsetting as this is, it makes SO much sense given her symptoms. All of her symptoms pointed to a problem with the mouth, so hopefully this will actually cure her for good.

For dental abscesses, I recommend treating as aggressively as possible from the outset. I had a bun with a dental abscess and prolonged antibiotic treatment may slow the growth but will not cure the abscess. My vet said they will sometimes put a bun on antibiotics basically forever if they are too old for surgery, but the meds will never get rid of the abscess because the capsule is so thick.

Oral antibiotics also do not typically affect abscesses. The usual treatment is subcutaneous injections of a penicillin type antibiotic (these aren’t safe orally, but are OK if injected). Giving subcutaneous injections at home is honestly easier than giving oral meds most of the time.

Usually the treatment (if the bun is strong enough to be anesthetized) is to do surgery, clean out the abscess, then follow up with a course of subcutaneous antibiotics while it heals. I had a bun with a jaw abscess and this was his treatment. It cleared up without needing a second round of treatment.

I know you family hasn’t really be listening to us, but you might discuss this with your new vet. I have a strong suspicion this abscess may have been the root cause of all of honey’s problems.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[jerseygirl]

I agree with Dana. And having those teeth out is not necessarily a bad thing. It could be what finally resolves her problems.

The injectible antibiotics are good for dental abscess. Perhaps the vet was not wanting to go that route just yet. Had he scheduled a recheck appointment? The oral antibiotic *might* change the consistency of the pus somewhat any make it somewhat easier for removal if it has to be cleaned out. I seem to recall that antibiotics can also help with getting clearer X-rays. Something my vet mentioned once when we were dealing with facial abscess in my rabbit.

[DanaNM]

@jerseygirl That’s really interesting about the x-rays and possibly thinning the pus!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[13Tskhmaster]

@jerseygirl – Thank you so much for the reassurance and taking the time to research orbifloxacin. I wasn’t having any luck finding instances of it being used with other bunny owners, so it does give me peace to know I’m not alone. 🙂

@DanaNM – I am happy to have a lead but frustrated it took so long to find the abscess, given our suspicion of a mouth problem, how many vets Hunny has seen, and how many times her mouth has supposedly been examined. The dentist went through all the possibilities with us today. He wants us to try the antibiotic and see if there is improvement. If there isn’t after four weeks, then he will recommend the surgery. Going through with that presents another problem, though, as Hunny’s teeth would require regular, expensive maintenance. My family isn’t too keen on that. It makes me worry about my girl’s future; you know well by now my feelings towards the idea of losing her. I just want this all to be over and for Hunny to be her old self again. I want my girl to have a good, long life, and not have to go through traumatic experiences like today’s on a regular basis, if at all.

[13Tskhmaster]

I believe he wants to check back with Hunny after the four-week period has ended. We were instructed to give the antibiotic for two weeks, after which we should see some improvement, and then more improvement after another two weeks.

[DanaNM]

I completely understand the frustration. Here’s what my vet said regarding dental abscess long term treatments (who was very experienced with rabbit dentals). The first step was to extract the bad tooth and clean out the abscess. The vet said eventually he would need to have the molar opposite the one extracted filed (and possibly others), because when one tooth is removed it shifts the alignment around. After the initial treatment (about 8 weeks later), they do a re-check to see if the abscess is completely gone and if any teeth need filing or extracting. Ideally the abscess is gone, and then there are just periodic checks to see how the molars are doing (often you can just wait till you see symptoms again). Filings might be more frequent at first as the teeth settle into their new spots.

So it can be tough, but if that really is the true cause of everything that’s been going on, it is possible to cure and have her be happy and comfortable again. Once the abscess is gone, the check-ups won’t be terrible, and since she needs her incisors trimmed anyway it could be an all-in one appointment.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[13Tskhmaster]

Understood. Here’s hoping the medicine helps Hunny and she does not need surgery. As I said in my original post, the dentist is concerned about that option because of the abscess’s location (Hunny’s fourth molar, on the left side). He says there’s no way to extract the infected tooth without taking the perfectly healthy one in front of it, as well. When the dentist mentioned the regular maintenance Hunny’s mouth would subsequently require, my dad made it clear he was not keen on the idea of that. Not only would those appointments be costly, but they would cause Hunny a great deal of stress (she’s freaked out by a simple car ride), and the dentist’s office is over an hour away from where we live.

We will of course do everything we can to make our girl well, within reason. For now, we are choosing not to borrow trouble and let the antibiotics do their thing. Per the dentist’s instructions, we are going to wait at least two weeks before pursuing additional treatment, unless something has to change where the meds are concerned. We were given a month’s supply of orbax for this reason.

Fingers crossed, everyone; please pray for Hunny and send her positive energy/healing vibes!

[DanaNM]

Sending good vibes that the medicine helps!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[LBJ10]

I’m glad they finally found what the problem (likely) is! Although it isn’t the news you were wanting, a tooth abscess isn’t the end of the world. I agree with the others. Pen G shots are generally considered more effective. It is very difficult for oral antibiotics to make their way into the abscess. There is no harm in trying though and the antibiotic, as JG said, has been used in rabbits before. Most antibiotics used in rabbits are not actually approved for use in rabbits. It doesn’t mean they are harmful… I think it has more to do with drug companies focusing more on dogs/cats.

Also, Dana is correct about missing teeth. Having a tooth pulled does not necessarily mean a lifetime of regular trimmings.

Do you know if the tooth root has been compromised? Is the tooth loose? In some cases, a tooth abscess can be cleaned out without losing the tooth. It just depends on the location and how much of the surrounding structures are involved.

[13Tskhmaster]

The dentist warned us about the difficulty of dealing with abscesses but seemed confident his treatment plan would work. According to research I’ve done on him, he seems very knowledgeable. Alas, he didn’t say anything to us about Hunny’s teeth except her incisors are misaligned (thus he filed them) and the molar with the abscess can’t be removed without impacting the surrounding teeth due to how difficult it is to access. I pray surgery never becomes necessary.

That said, Hunny has shown almost no interest in food since she came home from the dentist (she took a few bites of pellets 9 hours ago and had 38 ml of critical care 2 hours ago), and she has barely pooped (four pills observed since coming home, but more possible). She has had some water but has not peed at all. I realize this is likely due to the anesthesia, which the tech said could take 24 hours to wear off completely, but how long should I wait until I have to start worrying about GI-stasis? I know the “emergency period” for that is typically shorter…

[Wick & Fable]

Anesthesia recovery varies based on the rabbit and the specific anesthesia protocol a vet uses. I think the longest one of my rabbits had been “off” for was 5 hours, and then his general activity schedule was off for a while more.

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[13Tskhmaster]

At midnight last night (10 hours ago), Hunny took some bites of pellets and did a more significant amount of poops. The poops were on the smaller side, again, but the quantity was good (over 20). We are concerned because Hunny hasn’t really eaten anything since those pellets at midnight (at least that we’ve seen), but hopefully that changes soon. We’re thinking it’s because her teeth are still sensitive from the filing…

[Wick & Fable]

Teeth sensitivity after filing is not unusual. You can also imagine the oddity if you suddenly woke up and your teeth were different lengths — there’s adjustment to potential sensitivity and then the foreign feel of your mouth. Sounds like it’s around 10AM for you right now, which is probably when a normal rabbit would be winding down to sleep. It was good that she had a lot of poops though!

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[13Tskhmaster]

It has been about 48 hours since Hunny’s dentist appointment. My girl has now had two doses of orbifloxacin, and I don’t notice any side-effects yet, but I still worry. In the time since her appointment, Hunny has gone from eating four tablespoons of pellets a day (remember, all she can eat is soaked pellets) to only the occasional bite. My girl’s urine output is getting better, but due to a lack of food in her system, her poops are smaller and less frequent. I know this is all to be expected given Hunny’s filing, but it still makes me nervous. She was doing well, eating on her own, but now, her only nutrients come from critical care. It’s as if we’ve stepped back in time to when this all started.

[pinkiemarie]

How is she feeling today?

[13Tskhmaster]

Compared to yesterday, Hunny is friskier and more affectionate. She has eaten a lot more pellets, but not nearly as much as before the dentist appointment. Litter box looks good, overall, but the amount of poops is still less than when my girl was consistently eating pellets by herself.

I still worry a great deal about the orbifloxacin.

[pinkiemarie]

She’s friskier and more affectionate though! That sounds like some progress!

[13Tskhmaster]

The past 48 hours have been an emotional rollercoaster. Hunny is barely eating; she only takes the occasional bite of soaked pellets and hardly touches her water. Critical Care feedings are a nightmare.

Hunny is pooping and peeing in accordance with her food and water intake. I worry because the poops are all shapes and sizes (somewhere between sickly and healthy). My girl is also shedding a lot on her rear. The loose fur comes out in huge chunks that protrude from underneath the outer coat. I worry this is a side-effect of the orbifloxacin. Hunny also still grinds her teeth a lot in weird-sounding ways.

On a positive note, Hunny spent a great deal of time this afternoon chewing on a hay-based carrot toy. She had not touched it since her problems started. She also ate some pieces of a romaine leaf, which was a joy to behold!

I really want Hunny to make progress with these meds, but I’m scared she’s regressing, based on the observations I’ve made.

[LBJ10]

I’m sorry to hear Hunny is having a hard time.

Considering she had so much trouble the last time her teeth were trimmed, it would be reasonable for the vet to prescribe pain medication. Assuming you didn’t receive any this time around, would it be possible to call the vet and ask? I know your family is resistant to asking the vet for things… but I don’t think it would hurt to at least ask the vet what their opinion is.

[pinkiemarie]

Is she molting? My rabbit Wally gets big chunks of hair that come loose by his bum and I have to pull them out for him when he molts. I’m hoping the hair you’re seeing is just a molt and nothing to worry any extra about.

[13Tskhmaster]

So far today, no eating or drinking from Hunny. We got 33 ml of Critical Care in her this morning, but we found out her weight has dropped from 1.38 kg to 1.35 kg (pre-dentist appointment, she was 1.4-1.43 kg). Lots of pee in the litter box, but no poop, aside from what Hunny tries to eat but can’t. I cannot be sure whether the shedding on Hunny’s rear is normal or medicine-induced. Audible gurgling every few seconds coming from my girl’s tummy. I’ve tried belly massages, but nothing seems to help. Teeth grinding too, so I assume there’s pain. Really scared. We called the vet this morning and were told we’d get a call back later this afternoon/evening. I’ll keep everyone posted.

[13Tskhmaster]

The veterinary dentist just called and told us to stop giving Hunny orbifloxacin right away, as it is likely disagreeing with her, hence the gurgling sounds we’ve been hearing. Tonight, we are to resume giving Hunny gabapentin to see if we can get her eating back on track, even if it’s just soaked pellets. When we reach that point, we are hopefully to resume treating the abscess with a different antibiotic. We asked the dentist about the shedding on Hunny’s rear; he wasn’t sure if it was the normal kind or medicine-induced.

I’m very worried about what’s going to happen, moving forward.

[pinkiemarie]

Can you post a picture of her rump please if you can get her to let you take one so we can see the fur and how it’s coming out?

[13Tskhmaster]

I tried to share the photos pinkiemarie requested, but I’m not allowed to post files, for some reason, and the links I shared instead aren’t showing up yet. Until then, here are my latest Hunny observations:

Decent-looking litter box. Attitude and pellet-eating seem a bit better without orbifloxacin. No more audible stomach gurgles. Lots of abnormal-sounding teeth grinding.

[13Tskhmaster]

Picture of Hunny’s rump: https://ibb.co/74KxvrW

Picture of a tuft of fur I can easily pull out of Hunny’s rump: https://ibb.co/zxksGK2

[LBJ10]

I fixed it for you. 🙂

[pinkiemarie]

I wouldn’t worry about that fur unless you start seeing bald patches. That’s what Wal’s bum looks like during a heavy molt. Just keep checking in on her like you have been to make sure she doesn’t develop any bald spots as that would indicate that it’s something other than a heavy molt. With her dental issues she may not be grooming herself as well as normal so you might be seeing her look a little more messy than she normally does.

[13Tskhmaster]

Thank you, @pinkiemarie 🙂 Knock on wood, but I have not seen any bald patches. I think you’re right and we’re just dealing with a normal (albeit heavy) molt. It was the degree of molting and size of the tufts I was pulling out from Hunny’s lower coat that was getting me worried.

[13Tskhmaster]

I’ve got bad news and good news:

Bad news: Hunny is not eating her soaked pellets, nor is she drinking water, at least as far as I’ve seen.

Good news: Hunny ate a piece of romaine lettuce with almost no difficulty! I had to hold it above her head and let her tear at it, but she got all of it down and didn’t spit up a single bite!

I tried to give Hunny a second piece of romaine, but she had trouble with that one. I believe what’s happening is once food touches Hunny’s sore tooth, my girl instinctively pushes it to the front of her mouth, where there are no grinding teeth. Hunny still tries to chew with her tongue and incisors (thus she looks and sounds like a dog eating peanut butter), but the food winds up falling to the floor, seemingly untouched. That’s when Hunny hops away in frustration and refuses to eat anymore due to lack of confidence. Conversely, when Hunny does a good job eating and chewing, she always seems to pick up the pieces that she’s dropped and give them another go…

[13Tskhmaster]

So terrified right now. We got a call from one of the vets Hunny has seen, and she laid out all the possible treatment options for dental abscesses. She is also a strong supporter of surgery, but my parents are against it, mostly for the care that would be required for Hunny’s teeth the rest of her life after. Penicillin injections were mentioned, but my folks don’t want Hunny to associate us coming to see her with pain. They have an objection to every treatment the vet mentioned. They don’t want Hunny to suffer, but they’re basically leaning more and more towards euthanasia based on the conversation they just tried to have with me in the room. I’m so scared they’re going to take my Hunny away from me. I need a miracle. No animal has ever loved me the way Hunny has, not even the bunny I had before her. I can’t lose this bun, especially when she’s so young and can’t defend herself. My parents don’t want Hunny on meds or syringes the rest of her life, but I don’t want to give up on her. Ultimately, it doesn’t matter because my parents are in charge. I’m sorry to be a broken record, but I’m terrified.

[pinkiemarie]

I’m so sorry 😔

[DanaNM]

I’m so sorry to hear that. I hope with all that you’ve been through you parents will agree to try the surgery.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[13Tskhmaster]

My parents have told me they aren’t going to agree to the surgery. It’s not because of the money, but because our lifestyle as a family does not align with the type of care Hunny would need post-operation (anesthesia and teeth filings every 6-12 weeks). I am trying to get my own place in the next couple years, and so is my sister. My mother is a school teacher, and my father would require a second person to drive Hunny to and from the vet, which is over an hour away.

My parents are going to tell the vet they want medications like the penicillin injections so they can “manage” Hunny’s abscess, rather than cure it, and delay euthanasia as long as possible. Ideally, Hunny will start eating pellets again, and “let us know when she’s ready” for things to “end.” I need a miracle. Hunny seems to continue regressing based on lack of eating and activity the past few days (it’s been a week since the dentist appointment), and I’m at a total loss.

I feel so powerless because this is out of my hands. I am trying to advocate for Hunny, but it’s falling on deaf ears. If only my feelings on euthanasia were different. It’s only because my family’s love of Hunny is so strong that we’re wanting to keep helping her instead of “stopping” her. Like I said, I need a miracle.

[13Tskhmaster]

Here’s the latest:

Hunny is not eating or pooping. We get 10-15 ml of Critical Care in her per feeding, if we’re lucky, and we are continuing to give meloxicam and gabapentin. The few poops Hunny makes I’ve been able to find are sludgy and wet to the touch; we are concerned about diarrhea and called the vet, but she’s stumped about that. Even if the orbifloxacin were the cause, the vet thinks Hunny would have gotten it out of her system by now, as it’s been almost three days since she stopped getting it.

Another vet appointment has been scheduled for tomorrow to make sure Hunny isn’t developing any new symptoms on top of what she already has. My girl seems very lethargic now and not at all like her curious, loving self. I’m scared. I go in with her, and she wants almost nothing to do with me. Even so, I continue to love her and hope things will turn around soon. We are going to try some oral medication next that is dangerous to humans; we have to wear gloves while giving it and cannot wash syringes in the sink. After that, we can try subcutaneous penicillin injections, but that’s it.

I’m really scared and continuing to pray for a miracle. I read some articles saying penicillin could be very helpful when clearing abscesses; I wish we could just try that and skip the one toxic to human bone marrow… Please send my girl healing vibes!

[Hazel]

I’m very sorry. 🙁  Abscesses can be tricky. But they are certainly treatable in most cases and shouldn’t be a death sentence for any rabbit, especially not a three year old. As far as I know, there is vey little chance to get rid of an abscess with just medications, as those are usually given after the surgery to squash any remaining bacteria. If your parents would opt for euthanasia rather than surgery, I think you should consider finding her a new home with someone who is able and willing to provide the medical care she needs (and will need afterwards). I know your parents are the ones who will make these decisions, but I hope they would see the logic in this, since they’re not fundamentally against the surgery, they just don’t see a way to provide the aftercare. Giving her to someone who can, would be what I would want to do in this situation. I know giving her up would be very difficult, but it’s better than letting her die. 🙁

[13Tskhmaster]

We are not giving up on Hunny, rest assured. I meant to post last night, but forgot: my girl was behaving much more like her old self last night. We got 30-something ml of Critical Care in around 10:00 PM, and Hunny showed interest in a hay-based toy; she spent a good 10 minutes chewing it to the extent she could. I got kisses, snuggles, etc.

When I woke up this morning, my parents told me Hunny ate a romaine stalk; I watched her try a good 10-15 minutes to eat hay, and even if she’s failing, she keeps trying. Hunny’s litter box looks great compared to the past few days, too! It’s like my girl is saying, “Don’t give up on me!”

She has a vet appointment today to set up the next stage of her treatment plan. She is trying that new medication I can’t remember the name of, and if that fails, we’re gonna try penicillin injections, which I’ve read several articles on, some of which say they’ve seen bunnies make complete recoveries from abscesses of the eye, face, and jaw with them.

Long story short, we all love Hunny very much and are not giving up on her yet. She is coming around, behaviorally, and while she hasn’t eaten pellets, she is trying to figure out how to eat hay and/or romaine. We have to assist her with the romaine, but the hay she’s trying herself and just can’t seem to bite.

[13Tskhmaster]

Hunny has been prescribed chloramphenicol. We have to give 0.6 ml every 12 hours for three weeks, starting tonight. If this doesn’t work, we will then try penicillin injections.

I worry greatly about this medication. I read it will severely decrease appetite (Hunny already is barely eating and living off Critical Care). It is also toxic to the bone marrow of 1/1000 humans, so it has to be given with gloves, and we can’t wash syringes in the sink. How do I interact with Hunny if she’s toxic? What if I want to cuddle with her or she licks me? I also worry about dysbiosis. I just feel on some level like I’m poisoning my girl, even if I’m trying to help her.

Hunny has spent much of the day sleeping. She doesn’t eat pellets anymore or hay, but she did eat a piece of romaine with my father’s help, and I got her to take a few bites of a soaked hay cookie.

Even if I can’t get my parents to do the surgery, we are trying everything we can to contain and shrink the abscess. I read several articles saying the right antibiotic (usually penicillin) can work wonders in place of surgery for inoperable abscesses. Please pray for my girl and my family. Thank you all for your continued help and support.

[LBJ10]

Pen G injections are often the antibiotic of choice for treating abscesses and there is some evidence that it may be effective as a stand-alone treatment (i.e. no surgery). Chloramphenicol is a different antibiotic. However, it is sometimes used in antibiotic-impregnated beads for treating abscesses. It is capable of penetrating bone, which I assume is true regardless of administration method. I’m not aware of any studies on it’s effectiveness as a stand-alone treatment for abscesses, but I imagine the vet prescribed it in hopes it would actually reach the abscess (which is embedded in bone). It’s possible the vet has had success treating abscesses this way.

There are reports that chloramphenicol can cause a decrease in appetite. The vet probably wasn’t too concerned with this because Hunny is being fed Critical Care anyway. I wouldn’t worry about cuddling with her. Any leftover residue would be in trace amounts. Bone marrow affects occur with prolonged exposure.

[13Tskhmaster]

I have wonderful news to report! Hunny seems to be responding well to the chloramphenicol! My girl started off only taking the occasional bite of soaked pellets. Then, she started eating one-three pieces of romaine lettuce a day; she could only do so with assistance from us (holding the piece up for her while she tore at it). Last night, we had a sort of breakthrough. My mother tried something I saw once in a YouTube video about dealing with a bunny abscess: finely chopping veggies. Hunny couldn’t get enough! She had three handfuls of chopped romaine and cilantro last night, plus a dish of pellets. This morning, she had two handfuls of veggies and was eating them faster than my mother could give them to her!

I’m so happy! Let’s hope we’re taking a step in the right direction and that things gradually get even better!

[DanaNM]

That’s great news!!!!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[LBJ10]

That’s great! Hopefully this means the antibiotic is reaching its intended target. It makes sense since this particular one is supposed to penetrate bone. You’ll have to keep us updated on whether or not the abscess reduces over time.

[13Tskhmaster]

It seems Hunny is having an off-day, today. She is hardly touching her chopped greens and only taking occasional bites of pellets. I have not seen her drink any water since we started giving her the greens, nor since she stopped eating them. Hunny is shedding heavily, but we’re doing everything we can to remove the loose fur. Even so, I know my girl is ingesting a lot of hair. I worry about having to deal with a blockage and an abscess. I honestly have no clue what is going on; there were plenty of decent-looking poops and lots of pee in Hunny’s litter box. I notice my girl occasionally “comes around” and eats after midnight when I go to check on her, but my family can’t get past the stark contrast between today and yesterday: one moment, Hunny couldn’t get enough of the greens. Now, she won’t touch them…

[LBJ10]

Perhaps she ate too many greens too quickly after not eating very much (of them) in a long time? Is she acting like she has gas?

[13Tskhmaster]

Maybe? It’s hard to tell. I think I heard some quiet gurgling when I was last with Hunny. Not as bad as when she was on orbifloxacin, but gurgling heard for the first time since we took her off that antibiotic the other week…I tried rubbing Hunny’s tummy, but it didn’t seem to make too big a difference.

[13Tskhmaster]

My apologies for the lack of updates; things have been uneventful, overall. Hunny continues to eat chopped greens, sometimes with pieces of carrot mixed in. She has good days and bad days, which means life is an emotional rollercoaster, but I’d say she’s stable, which is a good thing. My concern these past two days has been Hunny’s lack of poops; there are hardly any in her litter box. I worry about a stomach blockage since my girl is shedding; she also likes to eat her paper-based bedding sometimes. Despite this, Hunny continues to eat chopped greens and pee. Any ideas what’s going on and/or how to fix it? We’ve been giving Hunny Critical Care in the evenings, hoping the increased amount of fiber will get her gut moving again. No luck, so far…

[LBJ10]

Thanks for the update! It sounds like Hunny is hanging in there. The back and forth may be due to the antibiotics. Did the vet recommend a probiotic? Perhaps that would help keep things stable within the gut.

When will the vet see her again to see if the antibiotics are working?

[13Tskhmaster]

I could be mistaken, but I believe the next time we contact the vet will be when we run out of chloramphenicol, which should be in about a week or so. It’s just so scary during Hunny’s “lows,” and so exhilarating during her “highs.” I want to make sure I’m doing all I can for my girl; I’m so proud of her.

I guess the best thing to do is take things one day at a time, huh? Would you say we’re right to keep Critical Care feedings going? I just watched Hunny gobble up a hay cookie, so that was good. I’m just worried by the decrease in appetite and lack of poops, like I said. I know there’s that “emergency window” for when GI-stasis sets in…

[DanaNM]

Greens have a lot of water but not much fiber, so that could explain the lower poop output… You are right to keep up the critical care if she isn’t eating hay or pellet mush on her own, because it will add the needed fiber and bulk to her diet. That’s awesome she ate a hay cookie!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[13Tskhmaster]

I will urge my family to continue the Critical Care, then. Hunny gets one feeding in the morning, and one at night. It’s been that way the past two days, ever since she basically stopped pooping again. I really hope Hunny gets out of this little slump and goes back to eating and defecating normally soon. She’s been one weird little girl:

Originally, Hunny would only eat pellet mush but occasionally took romaine pieces if we held them for her. Then, we decided to try dicing the greens, and Hunny loved it. She couldn’t get enough. We got curious and added tiny pieces of things like broccoli, parsley, cilantro, and carrots. Hunny continued to gobble it all up, gradually losing interest in the pellet mush.

Alas, this is no longer the case. The most I’ve seen my girl eat in the past two days is the hay cookie. She has tried and failed to eat hay on a few occasions; we can’t figure out how to make that more “doable” for her; we tried dicing hay once with no success…

[13Tskhmaster]

Hunny continues to do poorly. She is barely pooping, and the poops she leaves are small and dark in coloration. She shows no interest in food of any kind, and we’re lucky if we can get more than 5ml of Critical Care per feeding in her, nowadays. Hunny spends a lot of time hiding in her tube.

We called the vet last night to see what her recommendations are; the chloramphenicol runs out on Thursday. The vet advised us to do the last couple treatments of antibiotic, not to try probiotics because the ones marketed for rabbits are dissimilar to rabbit gut flora, and to basically do whatever we could to get Hunny to eat, even putting literal applesauce in the Critical Care. We tried crushing up a few of Hunny’s hay cookies, soaked them, and offered them to her, but she wanted no part of it after a few bites.

The vet said we can try the penicillin injections next, but if that’s not logistical for us, it may be time again to consider euthanasia. This, of course, led to a huge argument between me and the rest of my family. It kills me to see Hunny being a husk of her former self, yes, but I also see the occasional moment where her old self comes back, and I can’t help but feel like if she had a voice, she’d say, “Don’t give up on me.” She also was very curious last night when she broke free of her corral and got to explore my living room; I took that as a positive sign, rather than just a fluke.

We’re all frustrated, scared, and at a loss. I don’t think the abscess should be a death sentence. My family and the vet, on the other hand, are throwing their hands up in the air. They don’t see a point in needlessly traumatizing Hunny just to see if the abscess has changed at all.

[Hazel]

I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this. 🙁

I thought your parents said they would do the Penicillin shots in place of surgery? Why have they changed their mind on that?

I just can’t believe they would rather let Hunny die/put her to sleep than do the surgery (and now even the Penicillin shots). I don’t think it’s right to sentence her to death just because they don’t want to deal with taking her to get regular dental care after the surgery. They should rehome her to someone who is willing and able to do so. She’s so young, she deserves that much.

[13Tskhmaster]

I’m trying to advocate for Hunny, believe me. We all love her and don’t want to give up on her, but last night, I think my family was speaking out of fear and worry. The vet was at a loss and was basically just saying “You can try this, but no promises.” We weren’t being told anything encouraging.

I just got Hunny to take a few bites of romaine, and I’ve read some more good things in this forum about penicillin.

I think the fear is now that my mother is back at her teaching job and my sister is back at college, it’s harder to do the required maintenance care than it was when COVID first hit. I did help my sister give Hunny her meds this morning, but she’s a very difficult bun and my mom and sister are tired of stressing her and themselves out with the Critical Care. We don’t want Hunny to associate us with pain by giving her injections or traumatizing her by bringing her to the vet so they can do those injections every other day.

I hope we still try the injections, but that’s the last thing my family is willing to try, regardless of what I think or say.

[DanaNM]

I hate to be negative, but the longer you delay the appropriate treatment, the harder it will be to cure.

I also hate to dump a sick rabbit on a rescue, but I do agree with Hazel that there is a clear treatment path here, and someone else might be more willing to do what is needed.

Giving injections is very easy and is actually less traumatizing for the rabbit than syringe feeding. Most rabbits barely notice. Ideally she needs the surgery AND injections.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[13Tskhmaster]

My previous post isn’t showing up yet, but something I want to add that I can’t believe I didn’t think to mention until now: to my knowledge, none of these vets have sampled Hunny’s abscess to find out what bacteria we’re dealing with.

[13Tskhmaster]

Surgery and rehoming are out of the question. I have already stated as much. With that in mind, I’ve been searching desperately for another solution. I keep coming back to this article about the penicillin: http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/jawabscess.html

If there’s even a remote chance Hunny could benefit from injections and not be traumatized by them, I want to persuade my family to give them a try. The trouble is, they won’t listen to me because I am not a vet, and the vets Hunny has seen won’t say anything positive or definitive to us. Part of me wonders if it’s because they want a paycheck more than my girl’s recovery. If it saved Hunny’s life, kept her in my family, and let her have a good quality of life, I would get over my anxiety in a flash and do the injections myself. To heck with the vet trips that would be required for her to get them, as my family fears.

The plan right now is to finish Hunny’s chloramphenicol, per the kindest vet’s instructions. We are then to wait a couple days and see if Hunny’s appetite comes back (the vet said bunnies normally have adverse reactions to antibiotics right away, but if the medicine truly is to blame now for Hunny’s lack of eating, it’ll take one-two days to be sure). If it does not, we’ll take things from there.

My sister just told me she got Hunny to take some more bites of romaine, as well as some leaves off a few pieces of parsley and cilantro. Gotta appreciate small victories, right?

[Hazel]

We don’t want Hunny to associate us with pain by giving her injections or traumatizing her by bringing her to the vet so they can do those injections every other day.

I understand that. But this would be a temporary situation, and if you could ask Hunny, I’m sure she would choose a few shots over dying.

 

I think the fear is now that my mother is back at her teaching job and my sister is back at college, it’s harder to do the required maintenance care than it was when COVID first hit.

If things come up and people can’t provide for their pets like they want/need to, rehoming is the right thing to do. It’s what a responsible pet owner does, putting their pets needs above their own. Have you  talked to your family about rehoming? They can’t possibly believe that Hunny’s death is the preferable option?

 

I also strongly agree with Dana, time is of the essence. With every day that is wasted, the abscess gets worse.

[13Tskhmaster]

I had a long talk with my mother this afternoon about the injections. She seemed receptive to what I was saying. We’re going to follow the vet’s instructions with the chloramphenicol and then see if her appetite comes back on its own after a couple days. We will then consult with the vet and hopefully, my parents will decide to give the penicillin a try. In the meantime, we are doing everything we can to help our girl feel as happy and comfortable as she can. We put apple juice in the Critical Care this afternoon and managed to get 32ml in, the most she’s had in a while. Rehoming does not feel like the right course of action for us; it doesn’t sit well with me for numerous reasons, and I know it would not sit well with my other family members. Obviously, we don’t want Hunny to die, but we want to do what we can while keeping her in our family. The abscess is in her jaw, and the vet literally told us surgery can’t happen without taking her jaw out. We’re taking things one step at a time.

[Hazel]

How is Hunny doing now?

[Salena]

I have also been wondering how honey is  doing and what ever happened with the issues honey was having! Hoping for a good report soon!

[13Tskhmaster]

My sincerest apologies for the late response:

Hunny is doing very well despite the abscess. She does not seem to be in any significant pain; she is frisky, affectionate, eating diced greens and soaked pellets, and pooping normally. To an outsider, she’d seem completely healthy. Hunny is on gabapentin and meloxicam to manage discomfort and takes those without a fuss most nights.

My girl’s biggest issue right now is shedding: we take the fur off her in huge clumps,  but it never ends. Hunny doesn’t like us poking and prodding her; she gets feisty and even nips if we touch the loose fur around her rear. What do y’all recommend? Brushing/petting isn’t enough; I literally take off so much fur I could make a sweater out of it…

Another recommendation request: What are some creative ways you could think of to help Hunny to eat hay? She tries sometimes to eat normal pieces but still has trouble. She doesn’t like soaked, small (diced) pieces, but she will occasionally eat hay-based treats (cubes of timothy hay) if they’re offered.

Long story short, we’ve been very blessed, and I’m so glad Hunny is still with us. I am concerned about her shedding and will probably worry about her eating habits for the rest of her life, but I would say things are way better than they were.

[LBJ10]

Glad to hear Hunny is doing better. Do they feel like the medications are shrinking the abscess?

Hmm… would one of those grooming gloves help?

And, since she is eating shredded veggies, will she eat fresh grass? Like wheat grass, you can buy it at the pet store as “cat grass” or grow it yourself.

[DanaNM]

I’m so happy to hear she is doing well!

Regarding grooming, I would experiment with different types of brushes. My bunnies all have ones they tolerate and ones they hate. Myra gets soooo annoyed with me when she’s molting, but she gets over it ones the heavy shed is done.

The fur-buster comb works very well on most fur types. I also really like sticky lint rollers (these seem to work best on Bun Jovi). Those grooming gloves are awesome too. I also have a Kong “groom zoom” that works pretty well, but the fur flies all over the place so I don’t use it quite as much.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Wick & Fable]

Thanks for the update!

For grooming, I decided that higher-stress, more grooming single sessions is better than doing shorter and more sessions over time. My Wick, though he is half the size of my Fable, his fur type is longer and more dense, so he sheds a ton in patches. I handpluck him, and during high molt times, it can last up to 45 minutes actually. He doesn’t like it. He tries to dash away, but since we’ve done it for over two years now, he resigns and deals with it. On my end, I obviously only ease out what will come out so it’s as least stressful for him as possible. It seems this has been a better approach for him to prevent fur digestion and general stress day-to-day, so he knows I won’t try to pluck him every time I approach him.

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[DanaNM]

Ooh yeah I agree with Wick 100%. My girls don’t like being groomed so during heavy sheds I will just pop them on the table and do a very deep thorough grooming once a week, rather than constantly plucking at them and driving them crazy. Bun Jovi does better with constant short groomings though, because he loves attention so much he doesn’t mind if you sneak the brush in a bit.

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Hazel]

Thank you for the update, I was getting worried! I’m glad she’s doing well. 🙂

Agree with Wick and Dana about the grooming. When Oscar is shedding I will put him up on top of his cage and pluck everything off. He doesn’t like it, but once it’s done I don’t have to bug him for a while.

[Author]

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