When scuffles warrant a break?

[Deleted User]

I didn’t post this in my own thread because I thought it might be useful to others, and this way it would show up in a search.

I have only had one true scuffle. Tonight, I wanted to try an overnight session with me “sleeping” (yeah right) nearby. We’ve been bonding doing at least 3 hours a day for a week, only one fight. They will lightly grunt at each other sometimes but neither attacks so it turns into nothing and I don’t have to intervene.

I am wondering though, if they get into a squabble do I separate them just because of that or do I calm them down and leave them together if they seem to still be ok near each other? Or is it better to calm down and just end the session?

[sarahthegemini]

I suppose it depends on your definition of a ‘squabble’

When I marathon bonded P & B, on day 5 Peanut tried mounting Buttercup whilst they were in their cardboard castle (in hindsight I shouldn’t have put it down at that point) I think she felt trapped as it is pretty enclosed and so circling ensued. I lifted the castle up as soon as I realised and Buttercup gave chase to Peanut. My partner picked Buttercup up at that point and held her for a minute or two. There was no biting/scratching/boxing but of course they had been circling and there was some fur tufts. When we put Buttercup back on the ground, her and Peanut avoided each other for about 5 minutes. Then they started moving around the room, not seeking each other out but not avoiding each other either. About 20 minutes later, Buttercup was loafed and Peanut went and groomed her

To me, a squabble would be a bit of chasing, circling and fur pulling. Of course all three need to be stopped but I wouldn’t necessarily separate them. I would just monitor their interactions afterwards and make a judgement call.
Anything more than that, so actual biting rather than fur pulling, boxing, bunny tornado etc I would separate immediately. Then calm them down and pet them both before finishing up.

[Deleted User]

Bunny tornado!!!! lmao I love that, it perfectly describes how they looked in the litter box for their fight the other day. Although, they didn’t appear to even bite each other and no fur was pulled, so I’m really not sure what the hell they were doing besides flailing around.

Do you think that it is too soon to try an overnight session?

[Mikey]

Just popping in to advise no overnight trials until they can spend 8 hours a day for a week without any fighting

[Deleted User]

I don’t have 8 hours a day. At best I have 5 hours, and that is if I spend from the moment I get home from work until 10 pm. Leaving me no time for cleaning the house, cooking, showering, etc. 8 hours a day is impossible for me.

I won’t do overnight then. I’ll try to just stay up as late as I can with them and separate before bed. This weekend I will start in the morning and try to keep it going as long as I can, hopefully we can get a long time in on sat and sun.

What is suggested for starting overnight since I literally cannot accomplish 8 hours every day?

[DanaNM]

Could you do an 8 hour on the weekend, or whatever your day off is?

I agree, it’s best to try the super long ones during the day first, since they will most likely be more sleepy and relaxed. Seems like problems always happen at night!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Deleted User]

I can try 8 hours on the weekends, but those are the only days I can manage that.

I work M-F full time. And Wednesday I have class in between work, so I work a half day, go to class, back to work for another half day. Wednesdays I am gone from 8am-9pm. and other week days I don’t get home until 9pm.

I suppose I will try to do as long as we can this weekend, then try to extend the sessions next week during the week to 5 hours (which is the max I can manage). Barring any issues this weekend or during the week, would you advise trying a night next weekend?

[Mikey]

Typically the prerequirements for their 48 hour overnight trials is spending atleast 8 hours a day for 3 days in a row with absolutely no signs of aggression. When doing the 48 hour overnight trials, youll be sleeping next to them and stopping any aggression (fur pulling, lunging, biting, ect). Youll completely stop the 48 hour trial if theres constant signs of aggression or you see them starting to become too stressed out. Through these 48 hours, since youll need to be with them for the entire time, its best if you get a friend or family member to stay with you to watch them while you shower, eat, ect.

5 hours for several days in a row should be alright. You want to make them spend as many hours as possible together before the overnight trials as some rabbits are comfortable spending shorter times together, but get stressed or act out when spending longer times together. If you can only do 5 hours during the day and 8 hours on weekends, that should be a fair enough pretest before you do the 48 hour trial

[Deleted User]

Ok I’ll just be doing the 5 hours on the weekdays then. I think we are coming along pretty well, and by next weekend we will have been working with them for for 2 weeks. The overnight stay, should that be done in the closest area I have to neutral (kitchen) or should bonding be taken to semi-neutral a few days before and then overnight in semi neutral? They are fine to spend 5+ hours together no problems in the kitchen, which isn’t technically neutral since Ophelia is free roam.

[Mikey]

The 48 hour trial is done in the place they will call “home”, so the final pen/cage/room they will be living in. If youve only bonded in a neutral area, theyre not ready for an overnight trial, and not ready for the 48 hour trial. Process goes neutral > semi neutral > final. When they can spend 5+ hours for a few days in a row together in the neutral space, move to semi neutral. When they can spend 5+ hours a day for a several days in a row with no aggression, you can move to the final space. After they can do about 5+ hours for a few days in a row in the final space, you start the 48 hour trial

[Bianca]

I would try some day sessions in their final area before doing an overnight session. Then it’s kind of up to you and how you think they are going. All rabbits are different so while there are recommended strategies it doesn’t work for everyone. I have discovered Terry is fine bonding in his territory but becomes aggressive when nervous. And neutral territory makes him nervous. So I bonded my group in his territory. I did marathon sessions and went to overnight sooner than recommend.

But definitely slower is better if you need it. You really need to go by their behaviour. Good luck!

[Deleted User]

That was going to be my next question. Today I am going to go look at the stores around and buy one of those “puppy tent” things to place in one of her rooms for “semi neutral”. She jumps over everything…. so xpens do not work for us. It has to be at least 4 feet or she will jump over it.

[DanaNM]

I think it also depends on whether you are going to marathon or not…. When I marathon bonded Bertha and Moose, we started in neutral, where there for about 4-5 days, then moved to semi for 5 days, then to their condo (supervised for another 4 days or so). With them though, I didn’t have grooming until 3 days into the marathon (but they had been spending up to 8 hours together during the day with no fights or aggression, and very relaxed, just hadn’t taken the plunge and groomed yet).

With Bunston and Bertha, (after about 3 months of shorter dates…building up to 2 hours), we did 2 very long day time sessions (like 10 + hours), followed by a week of nightly 2-hour-ish dates, followed by having them spend a couple nights together in the kitchen (semi-neutral), and then they were moved straight into their condo.

For us, doing a overnights in neutral and semi-neutral was just a way to have longer sessions. I didn’t want to do an overnight in non-neutral until I felt they were bonded and I was basically just cementing.

For making barriers, storage grid cubes are really useful and cost effective, and you can make them really tall!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

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