What is wrong with Jack?

[Karla]

Something is wrong with Jack…but what? I know you guys aren’t vets,  but as mentioned in my last thread about his UTI, your guesses are just as good as the ones my vet can come up with.

I took Jack to the vet about 2 weeks ago suspecting him to have a UTI. The vet gave him Baytril and it seemed to cure him on the first day, so that problems is solved. However, things are not right.

Facts:

·         he drinks water for 4-5 minutes without taking a tiny break and when he finally stops it is only for 5-10 minutes.

·         He has lost 1/5 of his weight since his last visit to the vet in mid-january

·         He is 5 years old

·         For the past two days he has been humping Karl, which he has never done before. He does it a lot

·         His appetite seems fine (but then again, since he can lose so much weight without me noticing, I am apparently no good at judging his appetite)

 

He is such a cuddly boy who loves sleeping next to me on the couch or in the bed. He is always asking for cuddles and is such a quiet boy. But since his visit to the vet 2 weeks ago, he doesn’t want to come too close to me. I know he hated getting Baytril and it might be because he associates me with the meds…or maybe not.

 

Right now he is drinking water…he has been at it for about 10 minutes now without even a tiny pause to breathe.  I’m really worried.

So, please, come with your best guesses, so I have something to research further on. I am not sure what to do. I’ve thought about bringing him to another vet near me, who is specialized in cats and dogs, but who might surprise me. I’ve also thought of taking him with me on the train and take him to my old vet, who is two hours away, but who is supposedly recommended by House Rabbit Society (although this vet did not think Molly needed pain meds after her spay, so I am not too happy about this either…).

I’ve only had him for four months.

 

[Sarita]

Okay, my next guess is dental. I know he had those incisors removed. It’s possible he has some molar spurs.

[Deleted User]

I was going to look up signs of diabetes in rabbits because it came to mind. Google found this. Maybe worth looking into the kidney thing.

en.allexperts.com/q/Rabbits-703/dia…idus-1.htm

[Sarita]

Petzy, that email is about Edson who’s slave used to come to BB. He eventually stopped drinking so much and it turns out he did not have diabetes.

I’ve only heard of diabetes in one of my friend’s rabbits who was extremely overweight – well her outcome was not good anyway and the vet had to do research and felt it could be controlled possibly through diet.

[Karla]

Posted By Sarita on 03/05/2010 12:03 PM
Okay, my next guess is dental. I know he had those incisors removed. It’s possible he has some molar spurs.

 

The vet checked him and said that his molars were uneven, but that he figured that it was not something that required trimming as it seemed to be something he was born with.

But dental problems wouldn’t cause him to hump Karl and drink tons of water? But then again, the drinking could be a phase. I know sometimes Karl drinks water like crazy for two days and then hardly drinks again for the next two weeks.  I’m checking out diabetes and renal problems now.

Dana Krempels says this about renal problems:

In many cases, a bunny with renal disease seems well able to manage control of the condition with excessive drinking.  When this happens, I do not interfere unless the bunny has a “bad day” and is lethargic and unhappy.  In this case, fluids seem to help flush the system.  But otherwise, I let the bunny regulate his/her own fluid intake, since the body’s own homeostatic mechanisms are *amazingly* good at telling the animal exactly how much fluid to ingest.

This is becoming more common practice in human medicine dealing with renal disease, and I’m surprised more vets are not following suit.  I really believe that you can do more harm than good with excessive fluid therapy.

So unless your bunnies start to show signs of lethargy, neurological signs, etc. I would let them manage their own condition and stay the course.

I hope they’ll be able to maintain their health for a long time.

Dana

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Rabbits-…enal-1.htm

So, she actually says I should do nothing. He is not lethargic…well, he is not active like Karl and Molly, but he has never been. When the others fool around and do binkies, he just sits close to me and wants to be cuddled. But since I haven’t had him for very long it could just be because he is in fact lethargic…

What would you guys do?

[Sarita]

Actually a rabbit with dental problems could very well drink lots of water to help soothe his mouth.

I would not rule out dental problems.

My rabbit who had renal failure would not eat and slept all the time – the vet said the only thing that kept him going was me giving him fluids. The only way to know this is with bloodwork too.

[Karla]

Thank you! It would be great if it was just dental problems.

Okay, I’ll ask the vet to trim his molars and do a blood test. I just needed you guys to tell me exactly what the vet should do, so I can tell him

Sarita, what did you do for your rabbit with renal failure and how did you find out?

[Sarita]

Actually my rabbit with renal failure had recurring bladder sludge issues. My vet did a bladder flush and we decided to continue with some fluids and stuff at home. He was not getting better and was sleeping more than usual and would not eat…renal failure did not occur at all to me. When I took him back in and told her what was happening she did bloodwork – we decided since he was in renal failure that it was best to help him cross the bridge because of his condition.

I think I would do the bloodwork first and then ask the vet once the bloodwork is back and all looks good to do the trim. I think with dental problems there just does not seem to be one particular behavior pattern for any one rabbit. And since he’s had those incisors removed it’s possible his teeth have changed position as well.

I have to say with Pepe and his dental problems he gets more aggressive when his teeth hurt as well. It took me awhile to figure the bad behavior was related to pain and not to just being a naughty rabbit.

[jerseygirl]

I’ve been this thought process path with Jersey before trying to work out her increased drinking. That’s when I learned that drinking could soothe the mouth too. Given Jack’s dental issues, it’s worth keeping in mind. With Jersey I had blood test done and teeth checked and all was ok. So I sort of think she just adjusted her own water intake as she wasn’t a big drinker before.

The humping could be related in that it a displacement behaviour. Binky Bunny thought her own Jack was doing this in relation to discomfort from a bladder stone. It could also be just that he’s still unsettled from the previous visit and having to have had meds. Humping can be a stress thing.
How’s his diet? Do you need to have him on alfalfa for his weight? Sarita saw a dental specialist and they suggest alfalfa was beneficial for dental buns (and older buns). Is that right Sarita?

(((Jack))) Sorry to hear he’s not himself yet. Hope you get some answers soon.

[Karla]

I’ve re-introduced (unlimited) pellets into their diet after the last vet visit – pellets based on vegetables as Jack gets loose stools from ordinary pellets. I cannot get a hold of alfalfa here. From what I can see, I can only buy alfalfa hay in amounts like 400 kg (!) for horses. I can buy it as pellets from a German online pet shop or get it here as those pellet mixes for hamsters, guinea pigs and rabbits.

Otherwise, they have unlimited access to hay mixed with dandelions, and then vegetables in the evening. We cut down on the vegetables in january as a way of forcing Jack to eat more hay. I think we used to feed 90% greens. Maybe I should give up on following the proper balance between hay, veggies and pellets and just feed them what they want to eat, so he will put on weight.

[KatnipCrzy]

I would look into have some bloodwork done on Jack- that way you can find out if his kidneys are functioning normally- so that would be an answer or rule out- and then B) it is important to have bloodwork done on bunnies that need anesthesia for dental issues to make sure their liver and kidneys can process the anesthesia out of their body- and choice of pain meds might make a difference then too.

[Karla]

I’m feeling more sure now that it is the teeth. I wouldn’t have considered it before Sarita suggested it, but today I decided to handfeed him and noticed he was unable to eat the veggies that are already cut into small pieces because of his missing incissors. So I cut his veggies into tiny weeny bits and then he would eat it! And today his drinking is just normal.

I feel so bad because I have neglected the bunnies for so long. I should have noticed something like that. But after our move in October, I am away from 5.45 am to 5.30 pm and I’m just so tired when I come home, I don’t spend the same amount of time with them.

But I will still ask for a test on his liver and kidneys though. And I just hope that the vet will trim his molars.

I’ve bought chinchilla pellets (the only ones I could find that contained alfalfa). I hope they are different from the ordinary pellets which he gets loose stools from…otherwise, he will be a poor bunny tomorrow.

[jerseygirl]

Oh, that reminds me…my other thought on Jersey’s drinking is it’s a way to fill her stomach…so possible with Jack also if he isn’t managing eating everything. Definately go with the check up though to cover all bases.

[Karla]

Just back from the vet. And Jack’s molars are really bad – strange to say, but I am so happy and excited about it. I’ve been so worried and thinking whether it was time to have him put to sleep etc. if it wasn’t the molars. The vet checked his molars two weeks ago, and then they didn’t need trimming, but now they were so bad that he was unable to chew at all.

I’ve been feeding them chinchilla pellets the past few days, and Jack has actually put most of the weight back on.

And…I got metacam I’m picking him up again in 4 hours! Yeah. Just don’t hope he is in for a trim so often.

[Karla]

Jack’s missing incissor was apparently not missing – it was growing sidewards in the gum. It was about 1,6 inches long! Vet thought this might have been the cause for all the latest trouble, and now all his dental problems should be finally over. Fingers crossed.

[Sarita]

Glad you got his teeth looked at. Poor little guy! I’m afraid his dental problems are going to be life long.

Pepe’s teeth are the same way – the vet will look at his teeth and say they are okay and 2 weeks later they are all goofy again and need trimmed. I just take him in every 4 to 6 weeks as I feel he needs it. I don’t always know exactly because he does continue to eat but sometimes he gets very aggressive when he jumps on the bed with me and digs and bites and slobbers on the sheets and pillows and then I usually know he needs a trim.

[Karla]

Does Pepe sneeze a lot? Jack does this and I have had a suspecion that it was related to his teeth and that it gets worse, when he is in for a trim. But it’s just a theory.

I’m not sure how Jack will take it if I have to take him to the vet every 4-6 weeks. He used to snuggle and be more intested in being close to me than fooling around like the others do…but since our last visit to the vet, I have had trouble getting near him. It might be due to the UTI combined with dental problems, but it might also be because I have not had him very long and I have taken him to the vet already 4 times now, so he doesn’t trust me anymore.

[Sarita]

No Pepe doesn’t sneeze but that certainly could be a sign for Jack that he needs a trim.

It takes Pepe a few days after a vet visit when he gets a dental trim to get back to normal and then he snuggles – just those first few days he’s more sedated from the medications.

Well, there’s nothing you can do if you think he doesn’t trust you – you have to take care of the medical problems and just hope that once it becomes a routine then he will get used to it and it will become part of the routine. It seems some rabbits are just more easy going and vet visits don’t seem to affect their trust – it’s that way, in my mind, with my rabbit Pepe and my rabbit Emmy too.

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

I would say the more he goes to the vet the more used to it he’ll get. He also may realize he feels better after a vet visit too. Perhaps you can do something special for him when he comes home from the vet-maybe a paper bag stuffed with hay and some dried fruit (small amount of course) and that could be his treat for being so brave?

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