What am I doing wrong?

[Taysmama13]

Clearly my two boys are trying to confuse me. They hang out nicely in the tub together, flop next to each other and eat with each other one minute and then try to kill each other the next. Kittei will spray pee all over D.o.g. and mount him and within a split second they are circling and boxing and fur is flying everywhere. I pet them both on the head and they flop like nothing happened. Lately we moved bonding sessions to a bigger area and during a scuffle I got attacked. It’s like they go blind with rage. They are both neutered. They are separately fantastic rabbits and sometimes fantastic with each other. I have tried stress bonding with the vacuum but neither of them are afraid of it. What am I doing wrong? Why are they “sometimes” friends and other times complete enemies? What can I do to stop the fighting?

*NOTE* in the beginning D.o.g mounted and Kittei let him. It went on for days and Kittei was okay with it. Now if D.o.g even tries to sniff Kittei’s butt Kittei goes frantic. Same with the opposite, Kittei mounts D.o.g and he does like a body slam to Kittei to prevent it. WHY? 

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

How long have you been working on bonding with the two of them? How many sessions a week do you do, how long are sessions etc?

I’m wondering if your maybe moving too fast…or maybe they need a health checkup to make sure they both were fully neutered and neither are injured. If one is injured or only partially neutered I could see that causing issues.

[Taysmama13]

Hi Kokoaneeandkahlua. I just saw that you replied so I apologize for the long wait. To answer your questions, we started doing 15 minute bathtub bonding sessions in February. We did them daily and if they did well, we would do it twice a day. After 30 straight days of fantastic behavior, we moved to a bigger area. They started out fine, but then started violently circling to get their faces under each others bottoms and then they both freak out and kick and grunt and bite. My husband or I will lay with them and they will flop next to each other and bow heads face to face with each other. After about 10 minutes we are back to circling. Since March we have been at this standoff type of behavior. They have both been neutered since January, but Kittei sprays this oniony smelly dark yellow pee ALL over D.O.G. He will literally run circles around the area to make sure he gets plenty on D.O.G, me, the walls, or whatever else is in the area. I have a large gate that they will flop side by side with, eat next to each other, groom each other through and it seems like they are best friends. As soon as I move the gate they are circling, chasing, biting and kicking. Thankfully neither have been seriously hurt, but I was during one of their scuffles. But as soon as I place the gate back they flop next to each other again. I seriously am so confused. Also, last week I was sick and missed a bonding session. Both rabbits kept biting my ankles or top of my feet whenever I was near them. Both rabbits have recently had a check up and neither are injured or sick, both have healed well from their castrations. So, what am I doing wrong?

[LBJ10]

Who came first and is the new bun encroaching on “his” territory when you remove the gate? My guess is that they are fine when in neutral territory, but once one is entering the other’s territory then, well, you know.

Has there been any grooming going on when the gate isn’t separating them? It sounds like they are both demanding to be groomed (bowing heads while standing face to face). Have you tried tricking them into grooming each other?

[Slowebot]

Is Kittei familiar with the room? It might help to spray the floor with a vinegar/water solution and then create a really small pen with the sides blocked off so that they cannot see outside of the area they’re sitting in. You’d be basically making it a completely new room, new smell, new sight and it would be just another neutral area. You can even put a small barrier between them while they are in there if they are particularly aggressive until they calm down. When they are fine with that small area and are relaxed you can either expand the pen a little bit or remove a part of the wall and expose the rest of the room slowly.

[Slowebot]

Also squirting them with water, turning on a vacuum or hair drier or banging pots/pans should hopefully scare them enough to stop them in their tracks during a fight.

[Taysmama13]

UGGH! Worst day ever today! I brought them to the vet because DOG was acting funny with his ears. Turns out he’s a big faker. I get them home and they were amazing with each other until I turned my back and they fought resulting in Kittei needing 11 stitches and DOG needing 4. Now they are both in Elizabethan collars. I have a big problem with this. They can’t eat their food on their own, can’t seem to get comfortable, can’t get into their cages on their own, are stressing out from not being able to groom themselves and then I thought, “what about those special poops they need to eat?” So here I am, a complete failure once again begging for advice on what to do about the poops? How do I know when they are doing them and even though I have no issue hand feeding them the poops, when do I do it, how often and how much? I’m a wreck here, sobbing like I got stitches myself feeling a complete idiot for turning my back to them knowing very well they can not be trusted yet. Months of work is down the drain. Pardon my pity party, I’ve a rough day and I just want them safe and happy. Should I bring them back to the vet and have the collars removed? And thank you slowebot for the advice about the vinegar. Looks like I have no choice anyway now.

[Taysmama13]

Ok, so after some thought I decided to go AMA and remove the collars. I have never seen my rabbits so happy! Neither one has touched the booboo areas, they both immediately cleaned their ears and faces. Now they are both laying in their respective cages, flopped and happy despite the fiasco of a day we all had.

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