We Now Have a Trio-To-Be (Maybe -.-)

[Deleted User]

We took Skipper and Ian today to the adoption event that our “local-ish” rescue was hosting. The bf and I were real worried that with the aggression that was shown between Skipper and Ian would cause issues. To try to smooth over the animosity we thought we would try to bring in a third little boy to help. We tried a cute little Nethie with them named Olaf. But Olaf would thump every time that Ian got close to him. We tried Hugo with the two next, he’s a sweet little skittish boy, and they seemed to get along great. Hugo flopped right next Skipper and they got along great at the rescue. And Ian and Hugo lay next to each other. Oddly enough Ian and Skipper were great together. They had a little chasing and some trying to mount. We decided to take them home in one carrier. Ian was such a good little cutie and groomed Skipper and Hugo all the way home. He was surprisingly so sweet.

When we got home we decided to move Ian and Hugo into Skipper’s area. We want them to be able to see each other. While we were getting Hugo’s area together he was running around. Poor little guy got such a scare because when he went over to Skipper she lunged and growled at him. She is just so territorial. So I’m thinking of trying to do some aggressive bonding with them.

I’m not really sure how to assuage Skipper’s territorial-ness.

What do you think would be good to start bonding sessions with? One-on-one or in a trio?

Here is Hugo laying in his pen before speed dating:

Hugo & Skipper during their speed date:

The trio-to-be in their carrier:

And here is Ian grooming Skipper:

[Amys Animals]

Cute! Congrats on the third bunny.

People told me to start with one-on-one…Basically just do pairs but then I was told to do them in the trio. I think the trio works better, but it basically depends on the rabbits. Maybe you can try the trio first and see how that goes and if aggression is too much then try the pairs.

I’m still bonding mine so you can follow along on my thread I started in this section.

[Deleted User]

Amy I have been following your thread and I read through Tanlover’s. I noticed how your buns and her’s seemed to do better in a group so I was thinking of doing a few quick one-on-one sessions before switching to a group dynamic.

[Roberta]

Hugo is gorgeous….. Special vibes for a quick successful bonding.

[Monkeybun]

I think to help with Skipper’s territorialness, you should maybe move her to their area instead of the other way around. Then it isn’t her space that is being invaded. After bonding, you could probably move them to her area if thats where they will be permanently housed.

[Deleted User]

Thank you Roberta. =]

And thanks MB! I think I might just put them in Ian’s area then. I had never thought of that! I’m going to be sad that I won’t be sleeping by my little girl now. =’[ Oh well. =p

[LBJ10]

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! Want bun-neh!

[LittlePuffyTail]

Hugo is so cute! Congrats on the new addition! And good luck!

[tanlover14]

Hugo is SOOO adorable!! Congrats on the new addition!!!

I would try and do both. Do in pairs for a day or two – then see what happens together. I don’t think there’s necessarily a good or bad way to start or do it – but you want to see which way seems to work better with your bunnies. And then continue with that path.

[Deleted User]

Day One of Bonding:

After having re-set up the buns into Ian’s area, Skipper decided to break out of her cage. (We have it fixed now.) Any way she went right to Ian and started to go for him. I decided that doing a one-on-one with them would not be good. So I tried to do a quick car ride session. I couldn’t even get them into the carrier to do it. I had Hugo and Ian in the carrier and when I went to put Skipper in all hell broke loose.

I grabbed Ian and Hugo then put them in the bath tub. They did really well together. Ian was humping Hugo and trying to establish dominance. Which was fine but he was head humping Hugo so I tried to re-situation Ian. I think Ian got the idea. I went to add Skipper into the mix. Just because I knew that Ian&Skipper wouldn’t work out in a bonding session and we would need Hugo to help mellow them out.The bonding session didn’t go great. I would say on a scale of 1-10, 1 being the worst & 10 being the best, it went as well as a 3. There was a lot of humping and nipping. Ian has a thing for head humping and tried to head hump Skipper. She was not having any of it. She went to lunge for Ian’s underbelly and we immediately scooted them away from each other. We had the vacuum running on and off to get the nipping to calm down. Skipper is not phased by the water bottle at all.  It stressed out the buns so much to have the vacuum so we decided to cut the session short. I smooshed the little ones together into a huddle and petted them for a little bit before putting them away. I tried leaving it on a good note and I thought that that would be the best.

So for now I think I’m going to do to one-on-ones with Skipper&Hugo and Hugo&Ian. Then I am going to do some massive litter swapping and scent swapping of Ian and Skipper’s stuff. I think they will take a while to bond. But Hugo is great. He’ll bond to either one pretty well.

[tanlover14]

Although it seems mean to stress them out so much – if they are this aggressive then you NEED to keep hardcore stressing. The best way to get them to trust each other IS by stressing. Stressing so they learn to lean on each other for comfort.

Glad Hugo is doing so well though!!!

[Monkeybun]

Agreed, stress bonding would be the best I think. And for car rides, I would suggest taking them to car separately, and having someone else drive while you put them into the carrier when the car is in motion. less squabbles that way then, as the carrier isn’t stationary

[Deleted User]

Thanks guys. I was thinking of doing a car ride tonight. Should I do all three or just Ian/Skipper? If I were to do Skipper/Ian I would put them in separate carriers and have them face each other during the ride.

[Deleted User]

Day Two of Bonding:

We ended up taking a break from bonding yesterday. It was more or less to give Hugo some more time to settle in. The poor baby is really skittish.

We did MonkeyBun’s suggestion and put Skipper and Ian in separate carriers before taking them to the car. (We tried putting Hugo into Skipper’s carrier but the little guy would just not go in.) So we took Ian and Skipper on a car ride together. We had some issues on my part with getting them into a carrier together. Just because I was trying to figure out how to navigate how to get them in one carrier. After I figure it out, Ian skipped out of his carrier and right in Skipper’s. We made sure to drive on all the limestone bumpy roads to stress the buns out more. For most of the ride they faced the other way of each other but huddled together. Towards the very tail end of the ride they faced towards each other for a little bit and cuddled. I was actually really happy with how the ride went. They cuddled pretty much the whole time. Ian even flopped for a second before he was jostled. When we got home I let them jump out of the carrier on their own before we placed them into their areas. I tried giving them treats together before we put the away but they both just refused to eat the cranberry.

I’m thinking we’re going to do bathtub bonding with Hugo. And we’re just going to save car bonding for Skipper and Ian. At least until they can all go into a carrier before car rides. 

I’m honestly not sure how to deal with Hugo’s skittishness. I’m not sure if we should let him settle in more before trying to bond him to Skipper and Ian. I know it’ll take longer for Ian and Skipper to get along then Skipper/Hugo or Hugo/Ian. Hugo is just a very calm, passive bun.

I was surprised though. I had this morning off so I went to go sit in the bunny living room to spend time with them and watch some Buffy. All of the little ones came out of their hiding spots to all lay down and press against their pens. I’m not sure if it was because of me. But I was happy to see that they were willing to come out and be near each other.

[tanlover14]

My Simba was the same way. It took him about two weeks to get over his skittishness and the bonding immediately with the other bunnies didn’t help. You can either just spend the next week or two doing Skipper/Ian car rides and waiting to add Hugo in more when he gets settled or do all three. I don’t think it’ll really help although if you’re feeling he may be too skittish, you can always just give him some time to love and trust you before doing more bonding with him.

I personally was going to wait at least a week or two before bonding Simba but when Tanger started fighting all the other bunnies in his trio, I felt like it was my only choice to do it then so Tanger would stop being so obviously aggressive towards everyone he was bonded with.

So glad the Ian/Skipper car ride went so well though! That sounds REALLY good. And it really sounds like they leaned on each other for comfort which is exactly what you want – so they can begin to trust each other! Yay! So happy for those two!!!

[Deleted User]

Thanks Tanlover for the advice! =] I think I’ll definitely wait a week or two then to bond Hugo and just spend some time with the little guy. He’s so skittish outside of his cage. So I let him be while he has run time and spend time with him while in his cage. I feel like he feels better in there because it’s his space and things are on his terms.

[NuggetBuns]

Hugo is so handsome! Love his orange coloring. Is adding a third rabbit to an already bonded pair harder than just bonding two rabbits together? Or is it about the same? I feel like in a couple years, I’ll also end up with 3 bunnies because they’re so freaking adorable, I just want them all!

[tanlover14]

Nugget – it really depends on the rabbits. My trio were EASY as pie to bond – but bonding into a quartet was halfway a nightmare and took so much time and energy. It was very stressful for all BUT in my opinion, it was way worth every minute. Nothing is better than seeing your little group of furbabies all snuggled together and playing happily. I absolutely LOVE it.

[Deleted User]

Nugget: It is a lot of energy trying to bond three singles together. But it’s totally worth it. I really want to see them happy together and not lonely. It’s tons of energy, more or less, because two of my three are very dominant buns (Skipper and Ian). So I have to juggle play times and make sure that they do not go near each other unless in a stressful environment. If not they both become nippy and they just hold grudges against each other which takes me steps back in the bonding process. Despite that, Ian and Skipper are doing better then they had been in the past with their behavior together. They don’t try to bull rush each other anymore. But I do see them try to establish their licking order through their bars by presenting their heads. Which is really cute because there is a gap between their cages. I guess all in all it really depends on the buns. If you read Amy’s thread I know she’s going through bonding with a an already bonded pair to a single. So, maybe you can get a sense of what she’s going through.

[NewBunnyOwner123]

I love Hugo! He lookes like the same breed as Harley is he Harlequin?

[Deleted User]

NewBunnyOwner: Yeah, he’s a harly and mixed with something else. =p His siblings look really different than him. Not really sure what though what he fully is.

[Deleted User]

Bonding Session Three:

Mine and the bf’s work schedules have been crazy and not in sync this week in order to be doing much bonding.  I really wish I could do it more often but I’m still nervous about trying to do a car ride session by myself. Especially since I’m not sure if I can get Skipper and Ian to start off in a cage together. 

Today’s 30 min. bonding session seemed to go well. We had Ian in the larger carrier today in hopes that Skipper would jump out of her carrier into his. However, Ian seems to be bolder than the two and jumped right out of his carrier and into the smaller one.  During today’s session they faced opposite of each–yet still huddling a little–for about 10 mins. of the ride. There was a bit of shifting and grooming on Ian’s part. (Secretly psyched about that but not too sure if the behavior will carry over any where else. ) I did notice that a couple of times he tried shoving his head under her to have her lick him. But she was like “Meh” through out most of the ride. So once they decided to face forward towards each other Skipper had her head resting on Ian’s head/shoulders.

When I went to get the little ones out they bounced out of the carrier and started to go around their pen area. They don’t play in this area and are not allowed out in it. Just because I don’t want little buns trying to nip other buns through the cage bars. So we put them in another sectioned off area of the house to play in. Having the two running around made me leery due to how territorial Skipper is. She can be curious/explorative one second and snap at Ian the next. (She had cleared the old baby gate a few weeks after we brought Ian home and she started to explore his area before she noticed him and ran to go bite him through his cage bars.) Ian did try to go up to her but since I didn’t have an oven mitt or a metal skimmer I went to play it safe and scooped the little man up before putting him back into his cage. I’m not sure if this was the right move and if I should have just let it happen to see what would happen. But I would rather just keep doing the car rides for another week(s?) and then try the bath tub before they ever interact in the “no man’s land” that is around their pens.

I have been thinking of trying to put banana on Ian’s head and see if during the car ride Skipper may get the urge to lick it off. She really is a sucker for banana. Has anyone tried the banana trick while a car ride is in progress? Does it work or should I save it for later?

Here is Ian and Skipper safely at home after the bonding session:

[Deleted User]

So I do have a question concerning whether or not this is a good sign. Skipper does like to lounge outside of her cage in the attached pen area. I noticed that she had hung out in areas that were away from either Ian or Hugo. I went to say hi to Ian and Miss Squirrel and I noticed Skipper lounged out close to Ian. Does this show that she feels more comfortable around Ian?

Here’s a shot from inside Ian’s pen:

[NewBunnyOwner123]

Gosh Skipper is so pretty! I love her colors. I don’t have any advice because I haven’t crossed the bonding bridge yet. But I’m going to be tackling this in about 6-8weeks so I have been stalking the bonding threads like crazy to do some research

[tanlover14]

It’s really good!! And it sounds like the car rides have been going very well. I would definitely try the banana trick! Although, as long as they’re not fighting about the grooms then it’s okay to leave them. It’s only if the no grooming is creating aggression that you really need to worry about it (which this could change when put in a new territory so I would try the banana trick just to encourage).

I would try the bath tub after the car rides – go directly from car ride to bath tub the first time you do it. I figured out that it really helped to get them comfortable together AND then switch it directly up. Sometimes when I would try a new area right off the bat in a bonding session they would get aggressive/anxious with each other. I didn’t have a lot of luck with the bath tub trick though (although a lot of people do) so if the bath tub seems to be just causing fights I would try something that is more stressful. Like a laundry basket or box with them in it that you can shake if they start to nip or chase. The bath tub worked the WORSE for me but I think it was because the area was so big Simba could go to one side of the bath tub and the other bunnies would end up on the other side and we were just getting NOWHERE. So don’t feel like there’s any set way of bonding in a certain order. You can do carrier, no-mans land, bath tub, together. Or the other way around. Just keep your options and orders open to what fits your buns! If the area isn’t working for them, then switch it up a bit!

[Deleted User]

Okidoki. I did notice that when we had tried the bath tub it was really hard get them into a close area to interact. And Hugo is a massive jumper (he actually escaped his pen the first night we had him. It was two NIC cubes tall and we had to add a third level of them to keep him from jumping out.) and he had actually jumped right out of the tub and into the bf’s lap. I’m heading to Target to snag some air filters so I’ll go check out their laundry baskets.

[Deleted User]

Bonding Session Four:

I’m not going to lie. I have no clue how to feel about today’s session. I sort of feel like we took steps back and then forward.

I started them off in separate carriers as per normal. And instead of trying to transfer them while the car was in motion I tried to transfer them while it was just idling. I’m thinking that Skipper and Ian are becoming more used to car rides now because they popped their heads out of their carriers and began to interact on the seat in the area that was between their cages. Ian really wanted to hop into Skipper’s carrier with her, however, she seemed to be giving him attitude and not letting him in. So I told the bf to start reversing to pull out of the drive way to see if it would force them together. It did and Ian jumped into the carrier with Skipper. They were fine at first because the roads were still a little bit bumpy. But because of the all rain we’ve been having lately the stupid county sent people to come smooth out our limestone roads. Which is great because it doesn’t kill our shocks and they fill in all the pot holes that left in the road from the rain rivers. But it made the roads less bumpy and didn’t stress out Ian or Skipper.  

Skipper was really territorial of the carrier for some reason and began to hump Ian. He was eh with it at first. But a scuffle ended up breaking out. I totally started flipping out because I didn’t have an oven mitt or a strainer on me thinking that we would be in the car for a bit before trying to transfer them into the laundry basket. Desperate to break them up since it was such a confined space and I couldn’t see anything, I ended up just whipping off my shirt and wrapping it around my hand to break them up.  Because there was no way I was going to stick my hand in there without coverage. Once covered I separated the two (there was TONS of hair just flying) and kept my hand between them until we found a really bumpy road that no one uses because when the economy crashed they abandoned the project to connect it to the major highway and just have it sitting. (Which don’t even get me started on that because we have to go a 1/2 hour out of our way to get onto that high way. And if they had just connected the stupid road it would take literally only 5 min.) Any way, stressed out again they began to huddle which was what I wanted. Once I though they were stressed out enough I told the bf to turn around to go home so that we could transfer them into the laundry basket I picked up at Target.

When we got home I was worried that a mini scuffle would break out once they got comfortable so I rushed them into the bathroom and stuck them in the tub to transfer them into the laundry basket.

It took a little bit of coercion and maneuvering on my part to get them in there since Skipper was playing guard and really wouldn’t let Ian into the basket.

[Deleted User]

There was a bit of scuffling and circling in the laundry basket so I tapped the side of the tub with the strainer. Skipper seemed to freak out but it didn’t really affect Ian. And he actually started to eat some of the hay I put in the basket. Skipper was somewhere between seeming to shut down and nervousness while in the basket. You could tell she was nervous but she still had some of her spunk to her. I had originally climbed into the tub with them to see how they did. And Skipper felt better by my presence at first and started to be really pushy with Ian so I began to bang on the sides of the laundry basket to spook her. I didn’t want any nipping to start and that’s what it looked like it was heading towards. She did a lot of shoving herself towards him. Ian relaxed pretty much right away in the laundry basket and began to groom himself. Which is when Skipper started to nudge her head towards him. Ian ignored her though and just plopped himself next to her.

Skipper started to get real frustrated with Ian’s indifference and went to go hump him and he wouldn’t have it. So she tried a different tactic and went to pin his shoulders down with her head.

I was really worried that they were making no progress in the positive side of things. Because Ian kept stomping his foot. Which I could tell was making Skipper really nervous. The stomping on the tub made this odd metallic-y noise that really freaked her out. I think being there was just annoying Ian because he was like, “Come on Mom! Get me out of here! I know can!” And he was trhwoing a bit of a fit. Trying to remedy the situation I hopped out of the tub with them and actually crouched down on the side of the tub so that they couldn’t see me. Taking myself out of the tub really was the right decision because the moment I popped my head up I saw this.

This was the positive sign that I was looking for to end the night on. So I went to grab their treats and gave them to them.

I am worried though. Ian ate his treat right next to Skipper but she was too nervous still and wouldn’t have anything to do with the treat. She only started to really explore the laundry basket or even touched the treat until after Ian was out of the laundry basket and was put away for the night.

[Deleted User]

Here is a video I was able to get on the bf’s phone of Ian grooming Skipper. It’s a little stretched out because it was taken with a phone sorry.

I was trying my best not to be spotted because Ian would stop grooming Skipper if he was.  But I’m not great with stealth and I ruined their special moment. So I gave them their treats right after this.

[Deleted User]

Vet Visit:

So we’ve had to stop bonding for a bit. The last bonding event we had done ended with Skipper getting bit a few times by Ian.  We wanted her to have time to heal and just have her and Ian chill out.

Ian and Hugo had their first vet appointment today. I wanted to make sure they had their appointments so I could add them to the pet insurance. 

Trying to get everyone to get ready for the car ride was a bit of an issue. Skipper just seems to want to start fights when getting into the carrier! We had Hugo in the carrier first and went to stick Skipper in with him and she started to go after him and pulled out a big clump of hair from him. Poor Hugo was so scared he jumped out of the carrier and into my arms. We ended up just keeping Skipper in the carrier by herself, put Ian in our spar carrier, and Hugo in the bonding laundry basket. We piled everyone into the car and I transferred all the little ones into the big carrier while the car was in motion. At first we had a few scuffles between Skipper and Ian. It started because Skipper started to hump Ian and Hugo. They let her hump them for a bit but once they didn’t want to put up with it a scuffle would break out. So I would separate them and the bf would start to swerve the car (we were still on the limestone roads and they were empty) to scare them. After that the little ones were really good and started to cuddle. Ian did a some grooming of Skipper and Hugo on the way to the vet and the way home. He seems to be the one who does the grooming. I did see Skipper lick Hugo’s ear twice. She caught me watching them and stopped. I was totally excited and surprised to see Skipper ‘grooming’ Hugo. It took her MONTHS before she started to groom us. Today seemed to do the littles on some good. They had a solid 3 1/2 to 4 hrs of bonding today. I wish we could do long sessions like this every day. However, because of our schedules we can’t. I’m just hoping that with Spring Break this week we make some positive progress in bonding.

I do know we have some issues with leaving this on a positive note. I make sure that before the littles are put away they are snuggled together. However, when I go to give them treats to all eat at the same time they don’t seem to want to snack. Is there another way that we can end a bonding session and make sure its left on a positive note, even if they don’t share a meal together?  

[Deleted User]

On the way to the vets.  I took off the top of the carrier for them.

Snugglesssssss.

Hugo seeing what I’m doing.  You can see the towel I had wrapped around my hand just in case to separate them. 

Ian and Skipper like to smoosh Hugo in between them.

Cute bunny butts.

Caught Ian grooming Hugo.

More groomies.

I put the lid back on the carrier because we hit rush hour traffic. And I wanted to make sure that if we got into and accident they wouldn’t fly out. They would be safe in the carrier with the lid on if we did get into an accident. I’m totally paranoid about car accidents.

Right before we brought them into the house.

[Deleted User]

I do have a question concerning bonding. Even if the buns are not bonded is it possible for them to become depressed because they have not had their regular meetings? Two days ago I noticed that Skipper was sluggish and a little depressed. (I can tell when its from her gut.) At first I thought it was because we hadn’t taken her out every day this past week because the bf and I had mid-terms and didn’t come home until late. We only had the chance to take two buns out a day and we rotated who got to come out. So on Saturday I made sure to have everybun come out for a long time. Which seemed to help perk Skipper up. But after her bonding session with the boys yesterday she seems a lot more lively. She started to zoom around the house and binky within the first 15 min of being out. Any way, is it possible that she was depressed because she didn’t get her regular bonding time with Ian? Even though she is situated right next to his cage?

[tanlover14]

Personally, I think it’s possible. I noticed it more when bonding my trio but I think it was more different with Simba because he was terrified of them all for the longest time until I just forced them to be together for 24 hours.

But when I was bonding my trio – they were always pissed when they couldn’t get each other out of their houses to play. It created quite a ruckus a few times. They all shared the same play area. But they would tear on each others cages and throw little temper tantrums because I wasn’t letting the other one out.

[tanlover14]

I just quickly skimmed the rest of your posts – I’ve been horrible about keeping up with BB lately.

I would suggest moving them to a different area for bonding if they are still aggressively fighting (but it seemed it went well on the vet visit) so I think I take that statement back. Let me know how the next session goes. I’m curious as to if you should start adding Hugo into the mix with the carrier sessions. He seems to take the attention off from Skipper with Ian. And helps him be happy when they are in a group. I would try bonding all three together from now on and see if you begin to progress. With my trio, Sidney HATED Tanger but was way more accepting of him when I added Fleury into the mix. Now I couldn’t separate those two if I tried.

[Deleted User]

Thanks TL for the reply! The carrier is where we seem to be having all the aggression issues. I was going to try them out all together in the laundry basket tonight. Skipper really seemed to cool down in the laundry basket. So I was hoping that maybe the laundry basket would be a good place to start with the three of them.

I’m wondering though if this has to do with the top being uncovered. I noticed that the fights stopped in the carrier when I removed the lid. We’re also a little strapped for cash this month since I have a week off of work because of the Spring Break so I didn’t want to use gas to do a carrier bonding session. Has anyone tried to do a bonding session in a laundry basket with a stacked washer/dryer? Does the basket have to go on the dryer or can I just put it up against the washer or dryer and it’ll have the same effect?

[NewBunnyOwner123]

Ian seems like a sweetheart always grooming everyone, comforting them

[Deleted User]

Bonding Session Five:

Today’s session seemed to go better. There was initially a scuffle between Hugo and Skipper. Once we put Ian in the mix though everyone seemed to mellow out. The first five minutes (? Give or take. It always seems so much longer than it is.) consisted of a bit of scuffling and nipping. Not wanting anybunny injured I started to bang on the side of the tub to stress them. This seemed to do the trick at first but they settled down again and started to fight once everyone settled. We tried blowing the vacuum cleaner to stress them but it seems like it caused them to fight more than anything else.

Wanting to try something else I had the bf get a load of laundry together and we placed them (in their laundry basket) in front of the washer. The sound of the washer didn’t really seem to affect Ian all too much. He started to periscope and try to jump out of the basket. So the bf upload an air horn ap on his phone and he actually let it rip a few times and that seemed to stress the buns out enough to cause them to cuddle. We didn’t want to overly stress them (Hugo’s sides were heaving) we turned the blow horn off and stuck on a rock station. Which Skipper hates rock. Something about the music really freaks her out. And it seemed that we needed to stress Skipper out more than anything else. She’s the one who caused all the issues in today’s session. She lunged at Ian and Hugo’s face at separate times and tried nipping both.

Skipper didn’t seem keen on trying to hump this session. Which in the past session is something that she has tried to do. Instead she just put one arm around Hugo and draped herself across his shoulders. The draping over the shoulders sends the same message. I wanted to see if we didn’t need the sounds of the washer anymore for the bonding session so I moved them back into the tub. Not a great decision because Hugo jumped clean out of the laundry basket and clung to my shoulder. I had the bf help me gently put him back in the basket and carried them back out to the laundry room. I’m thinking that we’re not going to do anymore tub sessions. I’m wondering if there is just something about the tub that freaks them out. We’ll try more laundry room sessions from here on out.

Once we moved them back into the laundry room things seemed to change. Skipper was still huddling/draping herself over Hugo. And Ian would alternately periscope and try to get out of the laundry basket. It seems like Ian is the one initiating grooming. He’ll start grooming Hugo and Skipper will get jealous and try to stick her face over Hugo’s to get groomed. I was extremely surprised to see Skipper starting to groom a bit! It took her months before she gave us hand licks. The problem with Skipper grooming is that it’s hard to tell if she’s nipping or grooming. It appears as if she was doing a little bit of grooming. Hugo did not seem at all interested in grooming either one. I do believe though that he gave Ian one little lick. (Hard to tell.)

Both Ian and Hugo groomed themselves during tonight’s session. While Skipper stretched herself out several times. I’m hoping what I’m seeing are good signs-ish. It would be great for some feed back. =p

I’ll post pictures from tonight’s session in a little bit I have to finish homework first. ;P

[Deleted User]

NewBunnyOwner: Ian is a total cutie! He’s really lovey and loves to lounge out by you. We had a friend over this past weekend and the air mattress she was sleeping on was out in the living room that the bun’s play in. Ian loved our friend so much he just flopped right next to the air mattress that she was laying in.

[Deleted User]

So I don’t want to clutter up the forum with my bonding questions so I’m going to ask it here on the thread.

How do you know if buns are unbondable?

After our last bonding event we decided to stop the bonding for now since it really seemed to freak out Hugo. He was doing really well with opening up and not being as skittish. But once we tried a group bonding event he just shut down and really withdrew into himself. So we’ve been trying to reestablish our bond with him before we do anymore bonding. I had another thread that I had to ask about his skittishness. But we seemed to have rectified the situation for now. I guess I just really want to make sure that trying to bond him Ian and Skipper is the right thing. If not we’ll try just bonding Skipper and Ian then get Hugo his own little docile girl. We know he is “bonadable”. In the sense that he can create a connection with another “bun”. He’s in total bun love with his stuffed bunny girl Miyori. I’m just worried that Ian and Skipper have wayyyy to strong of personalities for the skittish little Hugo.

My second question is:

How the frickafrack do you keep territory neutral?

Once the buns have been in an area it no longer becomes neutral right? I think I’ve figured out that our bonding issues are arising from not having totally neutral territory. -.- We have plenty of semi-neutral territory. Just not completely neutral. So to rectify that issue I was going to do the box bonding that Tanlover did (which was totally brilliant). But how do I keep that box neutral? O.o?

[tanlover14]

With all the buns in it – it will always be neutral. Bringing them back to an area that they have all spent time in is fine! As long as one bunny hasn’t been inside it alone. Then they have no way to “lay claim” to the territory. It’s only non-neutral if you give one bunny the area (by himself not in the group) in which case he will kind of see it as HIS spot because he was the one there first. So if you use the box ONLY for bonding, that will still be considered neutral territory. Hopefully that makes sense, if not I can attempt to re-explain. Haha! (So bad at explaining).

Also, I would suggest NOT putting the brakes on the bonding. Simba did this exact thing when bonding with the others. For him, he was like the odd man out, and it was very stressful for him. But this actually made bonding easier because he soon realized he needed to rely on the other bunnies rather than the “humans”. As soon as he was less stressed out and bonded to the others, he came back around to his self like he was before the bonding began. Unless of course you’d really like to end up with four and attempt to bond in pairs?!? BAHAHAHHAHA. You know you want a quartet! (I’m such a bad influence.)

[tanlover14]

As a side note – I figured out Simba was becoming skittish because he knew when I came around it was bonding time with the crazies. So he basically hated seeing me. So I usually bonded and then played with him after to help him calm down a bit. But every day I would come in he would be like “NO WAY LADY”, LOL. It’s hard but if it makes him begin to rely on the others then it’s exactly what you want. And with my experience with all of my other bunnies also bonding made them ALL stressed out. The Tans did exactly the same as Simba. They wouldn’t even come out of their house for play time even when bribed with a treat because they caught on to me bribing with treats to get them out for bonding. But like Simba as soon as they were bonded, they went right back to normal. So I think you will initially have this problem no matter when you start the bonding.

[Deleted User]

Okay, thanks. I was just worried because Skipper and Ian did not have such a drastic reversal in attitude where as Hugo did. Which is what really surprised me. I did notice that both Skipper and Ian have unhealed bite marks from each other. So I’m not sure if I should just wait for the marks to heal before trying to bond again. OR is it okay to just continue with bonding?

[Deleted User]

Thank you again TL for all your input and help. =]

[tanlover14]

I think it depends bunny to bunny – Fleury didn’t really care where as Tanger became a little withdrawn, Simba did a lot, and Sidney wouldn’t let me near her because she knew she was going to be bonding and became REALLY leery of me. But once they were bonded they were all fine.

I think regarding the bites it may just be a judgment thing. Personally, I would continue because I would worry that if they stop bonding when you re-introduce the same thing may happen. I also never let my bunnies think fighting will stop the bonding, because then they will fight expecting to be separated (they fight, you stop the bonding = they get what they want). So sometimes you just have to be the big mean momma and just force them together. It’s really a judgment call between you and your buns though – if you feel you need a break, then take a break! Because you don’t want your stress and frustration rubbing off on their attitudes towards each other. (I’m a big believer that animals are good at picking up on feelings and attitudes.)

[Deleted User]

Thanks! I just feel bad because Skipper is getting nipped up by Ian. But I think Ian’s figured out that if he grooms either Skipper or Hugo the session will end soon. Either that or he feels bad for how freaked the two are. =p I’m going to do one-on-one with Hugo/Skipper and Hugo/Ian tonight. It may turn into a group event tonight though if I see Skipper is going after Hugo. I noticed if I put Ian in the mix things seem to smooth out more between them.

[tanlover14]

Let me know how it goes!!!

I love these bonding session posts! I hope they will help me when I attempt to bond Nora into the quartet! Haha! Bonding bunnies is soooo difficult and time-consuming! I hope you’re hanging in there!

[Deleted User]

Thanks I am. =] I’ve just been trying to figure out how to keep things neutral. I know you said that a bun can’t be left in an area by him/herself. The bf has issues picking up the buns so I’m left to scoop them up and put them in the box. And with how reluctant they are to come out sometimes it ends up with the bun being in the neutral area on their own for a bit.

[Deleted User]

I’m sort of at a loss and at wits end. Skipper is full of piss and vinegar and keeps trying to pick fights. She is fine with Ian when it is just the two of them. I can’t even do bonding with Hugo and Skipper. She just full on attacks him. I’ve been doing litter swapping/scent swapping and none of it seems to help in the Hugo/Skipper case. I don’t even know why I tried it today. But I was hoping that maybe with Ian there Skipper would stop trying to attack Hugo. But now that’s totally muddled everything. Skipper started to pick fights with Ian and Hugo. Ian got so upset that he started lunging and growling at Skipper. I noticed that he become real protective over Hugo when Skipper is there. I’m wondering if she is jealous of the attention that Ian is giving Hugo. Any way, I hate, HATE leaving things on a bad note. But Skipper was just impossible. I kept the strainer in front of her face. And very time I went to lift it she would just attack the bun that was closest to her. We ended up just pulling her and leaving Ian and Hugo together. Low and behold the two of them were fine together. I gave them each some dried carrot tops then put them away.

I don’t want to leave a bad feeling between Skipper and Ian. So I put them in each other’s cage. Ian is in Skipper’s cage for the night while Skipper is in Ian’s. Hugo is out having play time with me. He seems to have calmed down a bit after tonight’s episode. I had some cuddles with him and he’s running around happy like. I worry about him though because Skipper pulled a massive, massive chunk of his hair.

I guess now I just don’t know where to go from here. -.- I have no clue if I should just wait to try to do the more aggressive bonding that they all obviously need for when the semester is over. I swear these buns are going to be the death of me.

Edit:

I guess a lot of my trepidation is coming from how aggressive the buns are when they are fighting. And how hard they are biting. Hugo is one to run away from fights. I was very surprised by him defending himself against Skipper. When she realized that she would not be able to attack him because we wouldn’t allow it, and when Ian began to groom Hugo, that is when she started to go after Ian. She had at first presented herself for grooms. Upon not immediately receiving them she went to attack Ian. Which in turn made him aggressive towards her. Thats when the bites started to get harder and when he started growling when she approached him.

[Deleted User]

D= Skipper got bit on her belly. I feel so horrible.

[tanlover14]

You need to REALLY stress them out. She’s in a place where she feels comfortable enough to start fights. You have to eliminate that and stress her out to the point she HAS to rely on the other bunnies. As much as we hate stressing out our buns, it was the only option with Tanger to Simba and I think it’s going to be the only option with Skipper to the others. She’s quite simply not being stressed enough. If she is, she will rely on the other bunnies. It’s in her instincts too.

[tanlover14]

They seemed to do better with the car-rides – I would try the car-ride situation. Skipper needs to have her bonds cemented more in a situation close to what you had her in before if the car rides were working. Even if it’s too much to use the car, try creating the environment of the car. Music going – they can’t really see where they are. Shake the carrier every few minutes to keep them on edge.

[Deleted User]

I just put an order into Bed Bath and Beyond for some more NIC cubes. I’m going to construct a bonding cube and put a middle cube through it. I’m going to sew a sleeve to slide the cube in and use it to divide the cube in half. So one bun will go in either side of the cube. And I’m going to take them bonding in this. That way they can’t nip each other through the fabric. But can get comfort out of each other’s scent. And the. When they are comfortable enough with each other I’ll take the divider out.

I honestly was just so stressed out last night. I just really needed to take a step back and problem solve. So that’s how I came up with the divided cube.

[Deleted User]

The cube will definitely need to be used in the car! I’m just annoyed that Skipper is being so aggressive/jealous. I understand it’s in her nature. So I don’t want to overly push her limits because I feel like every time I try to she just becomes more aggressive.

[tanlover14]

I know what you mean – try not to let the stress get to you. More than once I just wanted to quit but I PROMISE, once you bond them… it all becomes worth it. Seeing them snuggling and cuddling. It’s amazing. You WILL get there. If you need breaks, take breaks. But continue. I have total faith in your bunnies.

Sidney was always terrible for me too. She still picks on Simba sometimes which causes her and Fleury to start butting heads. But they don’t full out fight anymore. You WILL get there. Just keep trucking ahead.

[Deleted User]

Thanks TL! I’m going to work on Ian and Hugo’s bond while trying to repair Skipper’s and Ian’s. Right now I have a barrier that is set up so that they can not nip each other through their pens. I’m going to work on allowing that space to diminish so that they can co-exist peacefully. Once I see they can do this I’m going to do some more aggressive bonding between them.

I feel like there is so much juggling involved in bonding. You’re having to do simultaneous things as you are bonding your buns to make sure that they don’t kill themselves. xO

[tanlover14]

It really is frustrating but I PROMISE PROMISE PROMISE – once it’s done – it’s amazing! And you will be so thankful you stuck with it. Plus, feel free to come on here and vent if you’re getting stressed out.

We’ll keep you going!

[Deleted User]

Thanks TL! I definitely need someone to vent to. =p The family and friends don’t understand the whole bunny obsession. And the bf gets shaky on wanting a trio if I show that I’m getting frustrated with Skipper’s behavior. And while the rescue that I got the buns from are very nice. They would rather have you swap out a bun for another that may be easier to bond with yours. And there is no way I could bring Hugo or Ian back to the rescue. That would just kill me. While we there for the bonding event someone had brought back this adorable himmie/nethie mix. It broke our hearts and we wanted to bring her home with us. But we knew if brought home a third we would be in over our heads.

[Deleted User]

Oi. Double post. -.- Could someone please delete this if they have the chance? =] Thank you.

[tanlover14]

Don’t get discouraged – I did all the bonding also. The boyfriend helped a tiny bit. But it’s nothing like being the one to stress, thinking about it all day, trying to come up with new scenarios/options. It’s so stressful. And yes, no one understands if they’ve never bonded a trio! It’s hard freaking work!

My boyfriend kept being like “will he ever bond?” “are you sure this is going to work out?” blah blah blah. It’s like dudeeeeee. I know I’m being a total B**** right now but give me some space to just do this. I’m pretty sure I was the grumpiest person alive while I bonded.

Just keep trucking through, girl! You WILL get there.

[tanlover14]

Funny story: So Sidney climbed out the x-pen door when I was trying to put their bowl of salad down… she ran over to Nora and was sniffing her and Nora attacked the side of the cage like a crazy lady. They both started boxing the x-pen Nora was in. Soooooooooo you’ll have to help me when I go to bond Nora to the others as I think I’m going to be in for a long ride. LOL

[Deleted User]

I’d love to help you through it TL! =] And thanks again for all the support it means a lot. =]

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