Very difficult bond: advice needed please

[RiccoRocco]

Hi everyone, this is going to be a long message so o do apologise! I’ve been lurking on this site for ages reading the posts about bonding but nothing seems to quite fit what’s happening to me and my buns so thought I’d create my own.
I have two buns, one female, Eccles, around 2 years and spayed, we adopted her in December 2016. She’s settled in fine and is a very lovely bunny. The other is peanut, around 2 years old, neutered, adopted in July 2017. Peanut was neglected and it really shows. We tried bonding the two straight away and realised it was a huge mistake. So we separated them and put them in cages next to each other to get used to smell and gave them equal run around time, swapped over toys etc. During all of this, peanut never really showed any interest in anything. He’s a very lethargic bunny, eats well but doesn’t move much and he has very poor litter habits despite my many attempts to train him he continues to pee and poop near his food and often eats all of his poops (apparently his old owner forgot to feed him quite frequently).
We gave it a couple of weeks and decided to try them in the bathtub. This felt like it was going nowhere, Eccles would eventually nip peanut and then it would escalate and we’d have to separate. After a while they both got wise to the bathroom trips and started hiding when it was time, neither of them like to be picked up so the process was hard just getting them together. We tried to carry on but in the end we decided to leave it for a bit as we were going away for a week so into their separate cages they went. Whilst we were away Eccles got into peanuts cage and tore out huge amounts of fur. Apparently peanut was cowering under his house while she was sat eating his food (no injuries). We thought it sounded promising that she hadn’t killed him to be honest but separated them and left it from the end of August until last week to try and bond them again. This time we decided to try a different method, the ‘wear them down’ one. We set up a smal pen in the kitchen Saturday morning and plonked them in it. Eccles did some major fur pulling at first but this soon calmed down and they were okay. We slept in the kitchen overnight and they had the odd scuffle but nothing major. They have been in the same pen since Saturday. It’s now Wednesday and they are showing absolutely zero signs of being bonded. Peanut is scared of Eccles. He cowers when she comes near him because she nips him and pulls fur. He won’t eat with her, won’t lay with her and vice Versa. They basically ignore each other in a tiny space until Eccles gets bored and decides to bully peanut. I’ve tried banana on the head; they both go for it but once the banana is gone, so are the licks. Eccles then gets annoyed and nips peanut so he runs away and stamps his feet. Yesterday I tried some stress bonding; put them both in a tub and dragged them around for a bit. They were both terrified and definitely snuggled as the tub wasn’t big enough for two and they stayed this way for about ten minutes but then it went back to how it has been since saturday with Eccles nipping peanut and him running away. I’m so frustrated with the whole thing, I knew this would be a difficult bond but neither one is making a move and it seems like they really are so unhappy right now I’m doubting what I’m doing. I really need some advice on what to do next. I’ve asked a couple of local services however one is too busy to help and the other won’t help with bonding. There’s no other rescue or service to help and I feel like I really need it ?

Basically one rabbit is terrified of the other, bonding is stuck, don’t know what to do next. Advice please if you can, for my own sanity!

[Sirius&Luna]

I don’t think you should let Eccles bully peanut. You need to be monitoring the entire time so that you can intervene and stop negative behaviours before it becomes a habit.

Nipping is acceptable bunny behaviour, but fur pulling, chasing, biting and fighting absolutely is not. You must stop the fur pulling.

It seems like Eccles has learned that it’s ok for her to bully Peanut. Peanut is obviously not going to make a move to be friends with Eccles because he’s now terrified of her. She’s not going to bother being nice to him, because there’s nothing stopping her being mean. This is why you’re not making progress. Sometimes the bullied bunny will snap, which is when it turns into a full blown fight.

I also thought my bunnies were going to be a difficult bond (see my thread on Luna and Atlas recently in this forum). Luna absolutely hated Atlas, and used to be furious just at the sight of him. But I’ve now successfully bonded them. I did this by sitting in with them the entire time, and intervening every time Luna tried to attack him (which after all the prebonding, she didn’t really try that much). She learned that she couldn’t be mean to him, and he learned that he could trust her to not nip him, which was the start of making some progress.

I suggest you separate them, work on calming Peanut down in general, and try again in a month or so. Peanut needs to forget that he’s scared of Eccles, and I think he needs a break for that to happen.

On Peanut’s litter training – can you move his food into or close to his litter tray? That’s the best way to get buns pooping in their trays.

[RiccoRocco]

Hi Sirius&Luna,
Thanks for your reply! I took your advice and separated them.
I slowly removed the bars between their cages until it was one bar thick so they could touch noses etc.

Eccles has really taken to peanut and enjoys laying next to his cage when she has her play time. In fact that’s pretty much all she does. I think she loves him. Peanut is still a little wary of her but is coming round seeing as she no longer nips him! We figure they are ‘half’ bonded now and do enjoy each other’s company.

funnily enough I just moved house this weekend and took it as a good opportunity to try bonding them again as all the space is neutral. It’s all going quite well so far but neither bunny is backing down when it comes to grooming and this annoys Eccles a bit and she gives him a little nip.
There has been minimal fur pulling, like one little chunk. Since that she has nipped his bum to move him out the way but nothing major.
The progress is very very slow but I think peanut is a happier bun in general because we’ve had him a while now so he feels safe and I really think this has helped.
Eccles is still very territorial despite it being neutral space, it’s really odd how quick she takes over so any advice on how to prevent this would be really useful as it’s hindering things definitely!

[Sirius&Luna]

I’m glad it’s going better!

Have you tried the fruit juice or banana on head trick to trick them into grooming each other? You can also pet them both when they’re having a grooming stand off, which swaps scents, and they still feel like they’re being groomed.

For territory – have you been swapping them between each others areas? That helps get rid of territorial behaviour. Obviously neither should be allowed in the neutral bonding space unless it’s for bonding. Females are more territorial, so it’s not unusual. I think the best thing to do is keep giving her things that smell like Peanut in her hutch.

How long have you been leaving them together? What have you tried? Adding a bit of stress to the situation might help, leaving them together for longer periods could help. It’s all quite dependent on the bunnies, so you have to find out what works for them.

[Manda]

That is great that you are making progress! My Cinni (who passed away recently at the age of 12) was bonded and I ended up having to bond her 3 times! Her first mate Thumper- was love at first site so it took me no effort at all. Jax was her next mate and they seemed to take to each other right away. After Jaxx passed at the age of 10 I got baby Sophia- Cinni was not impressed and this took a lot of work. Have you tried car rides? Car rides did the trick for me with Mr Buns and Sophia. I hated stressing them but it really did bring them close together. I think the key is to also be the one in charge. You tell those bunnies that they must get along and be kind to each other- they are no dumb creature. They know what we are saying.

I am about to attempt an 8 week old and Mr buns who is 5- wish me luck!

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