UTI…again! What could trigger it?

[Karla]

So Jack was treated for his UTI at the end of February, and here we are again. Molly started chasing him last week and would bite him occassionally. I knew something was wrong with him then, but didn’t know what. It is strange how she picks up when he is not feeling well and then just turns to such a mean lady. But to me, it is a great indicator that I need to keep an eye on him. Yesterday, he then began peeing outside the litterbox, so I figured the UTI was back. And today, he is sitting in peeing position, but nothing comes out.

Anyways, we have an appointment tomorrow at the vet’s already, because for the past couple of months he has been having very loose stools on and off, which dries up at his bottom and makes it impossible for him to poop, so I have to clean him every week. I keep giving him fibre treatments, but now we need to find the reason behind it and not just remove the symptoms.

My vet didn’t really know what to do the last time about the UTI, so this is why I am asking you this question, and not him: what could trigger the UTI in Jack? Is he getting something to eat, he shouldn’t? Is there something I could feed him or do to prevent it?

The others are just fine. They have access to hay and in the evening they get the greens, mostly celery and cabbage, but also bean sprouts and peppers. Sometimes blueberries and also root veggies.

[RabbitPam]

I’m sorry it’s back. I think you should try to get another vet, although I do know it’s hard where you live. I will get the HRS link for you for international vets listed.
It”s possible that it never completely went away. Many things reoccur because they were treated, but not completely eradicated from the body, so have a chance to come back. That’s possibly what happened. It may take a longer dose of the meds this time, or it isn’t working as well as he needs. Keep treating it and follow directions until you can find a second vet opinion. OK, I found the link and just went right to Denmark:

Denmark

Dr. Knud Steensborg
Abild Dyreklinik
Hovedgaden 41
DK-8220 Brabrand
Denmark
Tel: 8626 3511
fax: 8626 1078
email: abild@image.dk

Dr. Ingeborg Mølbak
Dyrehospitalet i københavn
Poppelstyket 11
2450 københavn SV
Denmark
Tel: 3617 5711
spays/neuters
(She teaches rabbit
medicine to vets.)
http://www.dik.dk 

Dr. Anne-Marie Svendsen
City Dyreklinik
Kronprinsessegade 76
1306 Copenhagen K
Denmark
Tel45) 3393 9800
Suggested as interested in rabbit medicine.

Other Helpful Danish Links:   http://dk.groups.yahoo.com/group/huskaniner 

[Karla]

Thanks. Unfortunately, these vets are not even close to where I live. It would take 2 hours by train. But we do have other vets here in my town, so maybe I should try these. At least now I feel that my vet knows Jack…

I just tried to google it and I found that an allergy COULD trigger UTI. This could explain his loose stools as well, I guess. I just don’t understand why there is always something wrong with him, poor little guy. I have to read up more about this.

[RabbitPam]

You could also call the vets listed and ask if they have any colleagues in your area that they could recommend. Vets tend to know each other through networking, so one may have a knowledgeable friend they work with or went to school with that they could send you to as a referral. It’s important to be confident in your vet if it turns out he has a chronic condition that will need treatment over time. And I really hope not, but he has to get on the right track.

If your current vet isn’t confident, you could also ask him if he knows a specialist you can go to locally. Where I live, the vets who were more dog/cat people didn’t mind sending me to an Exotics vet instead.

[Karla]

What a great idea, I did not think of that! I will do that tomorrow.

[jerseygirl]

I’m sorry to hear Jackhas another one. If it’s caused by a bacteria, sometimes they aren’t susceptible to the anti biotic given. But investigating the cause is important along with cause of his runny stools. It could also be he’s getting the infections due to the stool problem – especially if it gets stuck on his bottom. I seem to remember you had to treat him for coccidiosis when you first got him – Is that right?

Just now when I attempted to find some Danish resources on rabbits, I think I stumbled upon the website you are building. I saw a video of yours there so I’m 98% positive it’s your site…….Great Work!  Not that I could understand most of it but a few google translations gave me a basic understanding of info you are putting together. It should be really valuable to Danish companion rabbit owners!

RabbitPams suggestion of calling the vets on the list she provided could have a dual purpose. To find vet for your bunnies but also, you could complie a country wide list of rabbit vets for the website.

[Sarita]

Unfortunately some rabbits are just much more susceptible to UTI’s and well anything else. Also Jack has dental problems so he very likely just has a lower immunity to everything than your other rabbits. Stool problems are also a part of the dental problem – my rabbit with dental problems usually get runny stool around the time he needs his molars trimmed.  Pretty much I think it’s just all relative to the rabbit not the environment or diet.

[peepi&warri]

I think bladder sludge can make rabbits more susceptible to UTI. I don’t recall if you’ve ever mentioned if he has had problems with sludge before though.

[Dust Bunny]

Dehydration can make him more succeptable to UTIs, make sure he’s getting enough water?

[KatnipCrzy]

Unless Jack had a negative urine culture after his last UTI treatment it is possible it never went away- but the bacteria count was lowered and the symptoms improved and he felt better, but with time it can come back full force- so that is certainly a possibility.

Another thing to really look into is the reason for runny stools- that could possibly be contributing to the problem.  There is usually quite a bit of bacteria in poo- which is normal.  And whether male or female- bunnies openings for pooing and peeing are located very near each other.  So loose stools could be/or could have introduced bacteria into the urinary tract/bladder.

DId he have an x-ray last time- sludge or stones will generally show up very well on an x-ray- as they are calcium dense (like bones are).  Did he have a urine test done last time?

Unfortunately there are many reasons- but this is what immediately I thought of when reading your post.

[Karla]

Hey, thanks for input everyone.

Jerseygirl: I think we have talked in here earlier about doing stools tests on Jack, but it has never been done. So he has not been treated for coccidiosis, which could be a cause. So funny, if it was my website you found (kaninhaandbogen.dk ?). I really ought to work some more on it, but I never get around to do it. But great idea about the list of vets. I should do some work on the website this week! I have another website, which I started out with and I should close that account.

Sarita: Yearh, I have been thinking that he just has a low immune system. I just wish I could boost it then (that’s why I have been feeding them blueberries). But I was reading up a bit earlier about filtering their drinking water and adding homeopathic remedies to their food to boost the immune system. Worth a try.

Peepie&Warri: Silly question perhaps, but do you have another word for bladder sludge? I think I know what you mean, but I need another word for it, so I can translate it. I was reading a bit about it in English, and it seems that it could be caused by high calcium intake. So, if I did in fact filter their drinking water, which is high in calcium, I might be able to prevent it again.

[Sadie]

If we were talking about a human being, I would say that the infection may have never gone away totally, did you finish the whole course of antibiotics? Also, in people, too much sugar in the urine could cause frequent UTIs, for example someone with uncontrolled diabetes. I’m not saying your bun is a diabetic, but is he eating too much sugar rich foods?

I talk to people almost every day about their unhappiness with their doctors. I tell them that you have to treat every visit like a job interview. Make the doc prove to you that the advice he/she gives you is worth following. That doc, or that vet, is working for you – you are paying his salary, make him earn it! The funny thing is, if you demand more of your health care professionals, they’ll probably respect you more and treat you better. If you’re not happy with this vet, I’d tell him what’s on your mind and then switch to a new one. You may be making him better vet in the process.

[Karla]

We did finish the the whole couse of antibiotics. It was four days with baytril.

Well, he has been given a lot of raisins lately, I have to admit. But otherwise, I am quite strict and only want them eating hay and celery/cabbages/broccoli. I did give him some pinapple juice for a few days two weeks ago as I read that it was good for bunnies with stool problems. It’s a good point, you are making. The raisins are banned now.

[peepi&warri]

Let’s see… excess calcium crystals. I can’t recall another term.
Yeah, high calcium intake can result in sludge and the sludge crystals can then irritate the lining of the bladder making infection more likely. Usually pellets are the source of too much calcium.

[Karla]

Then I know what you mean! My cat had that. Thank you Wel, he isn’t getting pellets as he gets loose stools from them, so they are not the cause, but our water does have a very high level of calcium in it.

[Sarita]

Four days of baytril is not nearly enough. Usually my vet does a 2 week course. I doubt it is due to diabetes, this is extremely rare in rabbits.

[Sadie]

I wasn’t actually suggesting diabetes, just as a “for instance.” All my medical knowledge is human based

hey, I found this: http://www.baytril.com/index.php/fuseaction/download/lrn_file/kap8.pdf
it doesn’t say anything about a length of course, but it has some good dosing info. It’s from the manufacturer’s website…

[RabbitPam]

Also, keep in mind that some bunnies don’t do well with the cabbage family of greens. They get sensitive to broccoli and cabbages – usually it makes them gassy. But you might gradually go to a gentler green while sorting this out, my favorite being green or red leaf lettuce or romaine lettuce, which has a stronger flavor that he might like.

[jerseygirl]

Karla, yes that was the site! I now know that “kanin” is danish for “rabbit” I nearly posted the address here as a reference for you before I figured it out! lol

I agree with Sarita, a longer course of baytril would have been better. As to bladder sludge words….I don’t know. Crystals or sand is sometimes used to describe calcium excretion in urine but this is fairly normal. Sludge is thicker, more like toothpaste and yellow. Have a look on medirabbit as it is discussed there. Either look in the Danish translation of the site or a language that you know has similar words to your own.

Sadie; sugar in the diet definately can come into it. Same as with us I guess, it can overwhelm the system and kill off good bacteria and allow bad bacteria to flourish etc.

[peepi&warri]

Karla- I love your site! I’m trying to learn danish so I’m happy to have a site about bunnies to try to read!

[Karla]

Posted By peepi&warri on 03/28/2010 08:48 PM
Karla- I love your site! I’m trying to learn danish so I’m happy to have a site about bunnies to try to read!

That is so funny! Well, now I really need to work on the website, I have finished some more books on rabbits so I need to add a lot more information. Why are you learning Danish?

Jack has just come back from the vet. It went fine, and I actually like the vet more and more. Anyways, the baytril should be given until 4 days after the symptoms are gone, and he was actually given Baytril for 8 days (sorry, my bad) last time and was free of symptoms after day 1, so it is just a new case of UTI. But this time we have Baytril for 10 days.

The vet is confident that it is due to his loose stools, as Katnip suggested. So I need to clean him more often and then just give him the same fibre supplements that we put on our own yoghurt in the morning to prevent it. Jack is just a bunny with a bad immune system, and it is something we cannot do anything about (vet mumbled something about putting him to sleep if it gets worse, but I overheard that one ). The vet thought that Jack would already be eating the others’ cecotrophes, but that I should try to steal them from the others as well and give him, just to be sure. I just have no idea how to get them. I have to be really quick then!

I have puried their drinking water now – we use charcoal purifiers for our own water (tastes so good! http://www.amazon.com/Kishu-Binchotan-Char…B002RUBC4Y  ) and then I will look into some remedies to boost the immune system and prevent UTI.

Thanks for you inputs everyone! It means the world to have someone to discuss these things with!

[peepi&warri]

hehe.. my favorite band is danish and I want to be able to read their danish interviews! pretty lame reason, but it gives me something to do.

[Karla]

No, not at all. It’s great to learn new languages and any excuse is good. I remember when I was 13, I had an Austrian pen pal, who had taught herself Danish ’cause she was a big fan of a Danish singer. What band is it? Not that I’m good with Danish music, but I am sure I would know them.

[peepi&warri]

You’ve probably heard of them… Mew.

[RabbitPam]

Nice website.
I like your Stand By Me video in the Galleri.

[BinkyBunny]

I’ll have to check it out! You don’t have to understand Danish though if you have the Chrome Browser as it has the Page Translator that I have found to be rather accurate…though not perfect.

[Karla]

Oops, edited something and now this came up as a new post…just ignore it, guys. Old thread with a small personal edition that was unimportant

[Author]

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