update:Oreo’s ear ..HELP: Fighting, I’m so upset right now

[Ali925]

I have a “journal” for my Oreo/Blu bonding but I wanted to post separate to be sure to get some help.  Only the 4th session tonight and an all-out brawl.  I’m still shaking.  Of course they’ve recovered I think…but I’m a wreck now.  

I was actually looking forward to the session tonight because I felt like last night was pretty decent.  All was fine for the first few minutes (maybe 2 min only ) until Blu started humping Oreo.  This is the first time I’ve seen humping from either of them.  Oreo seemed okay so I let it go for a few seconds instead of stopping it.  But it went from her tolerating it to only seconds later her going after him and this escalated into a bad fight…I used my squirt bottle and they stopped and then went at it again…the spraying didn’t help so I had to physically separate it.  I wasn’t very successful, it took me a few tries and eventually I grabbed Oreo and got her out of the tub and scooted her out of the bathroom.  I ended up getting bit too (Blu is a stinker)…nothing big at all but it’s my fault for neglecting the gloves, but it was my wrist anyhow so I’m not sure I’d block it either way.  So in the end they both seem okay now physically, just a little fur from each of them left on the tub..

I know some of you had bad bonding sessions and I knew it might happen (actually pretty certain it would…), but that was so hard for me to witness.  I of course was thinking that one of my babies was going to come out of this injured or something…(although i was the only one with a little blood lol).

I know giving up is NOT the answer.  But I seriously don’t think I could do another session again after seeing that.  I know I will definitely have to stress them next time…but actually the problem was really just Blu’s humping.  If only Oreo didn’t insist on being the dominant one, I really don’t think she’ll let him be…just based on her personality.  He is so laid back, so I thought they’d match up well…but aside from being laid back he’s also very jumpy and scared still (even with my petting of him…it’s been a slow process for him to like it now)… 

Unfortunately I wasn’t able to end the session on any positive note…I had to separate them and end it for the night.  So now I’m extra nervous to start again.  I’ll skip tomorrow for sure.

AFTERWARDS: Once back in their respective areas, Oreo was sitting by the baby gate (that separates them during free-roam) I think waiting for Blu.  I hadn’t let him out of his pen yet, so she didn’t get to see him through there, I’m afraid there will be aggression now.  Right now though, they’re fine and can see each other from their pens.  (Just a side note, here’s their setup…  Sorry for the messy room!  They’ve seen each other through that big space for months….  

 

 Oreo’s side—>     <---Blu's side(top of pic)

 

 

So right now I need some encouragement or something.  Bad week for the hubby to be away!  Boy I feel like a wuss now.

Thanks guys… 

[Helenor]

I’m sorry to hear things have gone sour. It is truly scary when they have an all out fight. But maybe Blu was humping her to see if he could get away with it? (If so, maybe he learned not to do it again) Hopefully things will be better when you stress them. I also had some bonding issues with Lago and Leppy and I just can’t do it anymore. I broke down two nights ago after Lago was bleeding from the nose. I hope things will go better for you.

[Monkeybun]

We had a major incident with M&M when bonding, and it got quite scary. We didn’t give up at that point though. Moose was chasing Monkey non stop, biting her whenever he got close. Poor Monkey was scared to death, and she couldn’t stop running because Moose was right on her tail. We only stopped the bonding of the 2 of them due to health issues not related.

It DOES get scary, but you have to keep at it if you want them to be happy together. Fights will happen, you just have to stop it, and get right back in there. Maybe wait until your hubby is home so you have help, and support right there with you. And someone to hold the camera

[Elrohwen]

It can definitely be scary – O&H didn’t fight during bonding, but did have a fight two weeks after moving in together (at 5am). Who knows why (my guess is that Otto didn’t like Hannah humping him, so you can see this is a pretty common scenario), but they went at each other – spray bottle didn’t work and I had to physically separate them (after waking up and running downstairs). Tons of fur everywhere, but no scratches. I kept them apart for a few hours so I could sleep until 7am, but then they went right back together. It’s really scary, but you can’t give up. What you saw was normal, and still not a really awful fight if nobunny was hurt. Scuffles will happen, fur will fly, and bunnies will be ticked off (you should’ve seen how mad Otto was after that fight with Hannah) but you have to keep trying. Calm yourself down, take it slow, do a lot of stressing, but keep going. Even if you just put them in a Petzy cube and carry them around the house, which would be a step back from what you’re doing now, it would still be progress. Like MB said, we’ll be here to help!

The bunnies need to work things out and they can’t talk, so sometimes they need to duke it out a little to get their point across. You did the right thing by separating them before anybody got hurt, but now you just have to keep going on and keep at it. I agree with waiting until your hubby is home to help and offer support – it can be very draining to do it yourself and having someone else around will keep you calm.

[Ali925]

Thanks guys for your help…I feel a little better about it now since they both were basically unharmed and still acting normally (after a short cooling off period following the fight). And like I said Oreo was waiting for him by the gate … so hopefully it was because she likes him? haha I’m sure not yet… just thinking happy thoughts. Both ate and drank and played like nothing happened, they were just a little damp from the soaking I gave them…(don’t worry I didn’t really “soak” them per-say…)

I will wait for some support, he should be home by tomorrow (“should be” but it’s never definite …) But he travels so frequently I didn’t want to rely on him completely or we’ll never get through this…the same reason we held off for so long, I was hoping he’d get a break from travel (it’s been every week for the past month…coming home for weekends and this is common some months) Anyhow, I’m hoping at least to get more comfortable with it and then be able to try alone again. Honestly there’s not much else that he would have done to make anything different last night, more just support for me mentally…

I think the petzy cube is a great idea, I was hesitant though because can’t they still nip one another? And then I’ll have to break them up from inside a tiny space? Or no? And I wish I had a washer/dryer that wasn’t front loading so I could use that! Car rides don’t thrill me…although I know they don’t thrill Oreo either!

I would love to think Blu would be scared to hump from now on…but I don’t think they’re that quick. It’s interesting bc he NEVER humped before … but Oreo used to hump my husband’s arm… So now I’m thinking they both might try the humping. Do you think it mattered that I put Blu in the bathtub first while I went to get Oreo? Could he have had more confidence that way??

One more thing, what do I do next time one of them humps? I tried waiting for a few seconds and we saw where that led…so do I stop him quickly? He’ll probably bite me and go right back…

Helenor…best of luck to you too, try to think positive! I’m such a worrier to begin with, so this is definitely challenging to me…but I do like challenges MB & Elrohwen, thanks for feedback

[Deleted User]

hey Ali, I am late catching up with your bonding. I would like to encourage you to go on, though. Many bondings have this one fight happen, and as long as you intervened and no skin was broken — it’s not at all the end of a good bond in the making!

I do agree with using a very small space for a few sessions to calm things between them. The cube works well because of its dimensions. You need to wear gloves and have your hands in the cube with them and it will be safe. You can also string a rope through the side grids of the cube and rock the cube from a hook in the ceiling or even a coat rack. I liked this type of session for times when I was not sure if my rabbits were still wanting to fight. I will find a video of mine to show you.

[Sarita]

I guess the rocking calms them down – like rock a bye bunny.

[Elrohwen]

Calms them or scares the bajeebus out of them. Haha

[Deleted User]

The rocking cube is very scary~ it is like the ground underneath you is giving way…

[Ali925]

lol Petzy, thanks for the suggestion! Do bunnies get motion sickness? I know if I was in that cube I would! Actually just watching it would be bad enough for me…haha.

Unfortunately I overlooked what appears to be a cut on Oreo’s ear from last night? It’s hard to see with her black fur… but I felt something a little crusty, and right next to it was a tiny spot of bare skin (very very small), where Blu took a hunk of fur out. I saw the remnant Oreo fur in the tub last night and I remember it was teeny tiny, but I thought it was off her back or something. What concerns me now is the crustiness which I’m thinking is a scab? Is there something I need to do for this or just let it heal on its own? She didn’t seem too bothered when I was touching around it so I hope that means she’s not in much if any discomfort from it…now I know why she sort of flinched a bit when I pet her ears last night. They were both a little wet after, so I guess it blended in if there was a little blood..

So what does this mean for the bonding? It seems like a very minor cut…but do I need to wait for it to heal before I continue? Poor Oreo…Blu bit both us girls!!

Also, if I use the cube, do I just set it down or do I need to add extra stress, moving it around, noises, etc? I keep saying I can’t use a washer/dryer bc mine are front loading, but what I should have said is they are front loading AND stacked on top of one another, so that’s why that method is out…

Thanks again…

[Deleted User]

Scrapes on the ears tend to heal well unless the wound stays open and gets contaminated. Since it has already scabbed, I’d say it is on the mend. Check it though.

I don’t know if rabbits can get motion sick. They cannot vomit but they may feel unwell from too much motion. At any rate, stressors CAN have health implications so you don’t want to overdo them.  Don’t use stressors unduly: if your rabbits don’t show fighting intent — just set the cube down and have a still cube session.

 

[Ali925]

Luckily I haven’t had any experience with broken skin…but it couldn’t have been too bad if she didn’t get too worked up over me touching it. It’s hard for me to really see anything through the fur, just the bit that I felt…so as long as it’s not an open wound we can proceed? Or should I give it time? I’m trying my best not to miss any days (except yesterday – I wanted to give them a day off and I got home late and couldn’t really do it)…but if I were to skip tonight too is that bad? I should have husband support tomorrow, so I think for my first time back at it I might want to wait for him. But if it’s going to make us regress too much I won’t wait …

I feel like a dodo, but more questions on the cube…do you make the whole session in the cube? or start there and move to another neutral area? Sorry I’m just not too sure where to go at this point. I’m also nervous about them being so close together, but I know you’re the expert, so I’ll trust the cube and hope for the best…

thanks Petzy..

[Deleted User]

There are other ways besides the cube, I just liked using it because it made my sessions portable. ~
I think you can proceed but taking a day off won’t make a difference.
At this stage in your bonding you could have entire sessions inside the cube before moving on; however, it is OK to try out your rabbits in a larger area. Sometimes, rabbits get on very well inside the cube but have trouble to carry that on to a larger area. You could ease them into the idea of larger space by starting your sessions in the cube, have an interlude in larger space, and then ending on a good note in the cube again. This is also beneficial for the rabbits as they can’t really potty or do routines cubed up.

[Sarita]

I guess they are basically held captive in the cube. I also agree with Petzy, I don’t think the ear scab is a reason to stop. If you stop you may not be motivated to start up again.

I think the best thing is to make it a routine to do bonding sessions each and every day. Up the time too – 10 minutes may feel like an hour to you, but it’s really not very long at all.

[Ali925]

Okay Petzy…I didn’t plan to go any larger than the bathtub. We need to master that first! But I’ll see how the cube goes…and how brave I am lol. I’m picturing a struggle just getting them safely into the cube…without one of them lashing out.. I have to just get through one that doesn’t end up like the last just so I can get some confidence back… They keep socializing (nothing aggressive) near the baby gate when they’re out of their pens. And in the setup I showed above (the edges of each of their living areas), they aren’t that close physically but have been in that setup for months now with no issues whatsoever. I know that’s totally different than living together, but I hope that’s promising.

You’re right Sarita..but I’m usually good at keeping at things once I start them, perhaps I can be obsessive lol…but this one is difficult being that I get so scared for them! I’ll do my best to do one tonight…if not I have a long 4day weekend (taking off tomorrow) and originally I had planned to do 2 sessions a day if possible so I can get this progressing…

I’ll keep you posted of course. And I’ll be asking tons of questions. Once the hubby is home I’ll have some video to supplement my far too wordy session storytelling…

Thanks again!!

[Deleted User]

Posted By Ali925 on 09/02/2010 12:33 PM
  I’m picturing a struggle just getting them safely into the cube…without one of them lashing out.. I have to just get through one that doesn’t end up like the last just so I can get some confidence back…

 

the first session in the cube can be a struggle. You might like to use an additional grid to stand up (you are going to have to hold on to it for a moment) diagonally from one corner to its farthest opposing corner. Then put the rabbits in on either side of the diagonal grid. Pull out the grid slowly while pushing down on their heads with gloved hands. Then, pick up the cube and walk around. You would benefit from an assistant for this very first cube session.

[Ali925]

 Oh that’s a great idea Petzy!  I’ll use that for sure…  Unfortunately I got a little sidetracked (we’re trying to get our house ready to sell, I’m looking for another job where we’re moving to, etc…) plus I was a bit discouraged and scared after the fight.  I know I have to toughen up…but the next time we tried bonding, maybe 2 days after the fight, we were transporting Oreo to the area with a box … she jumped out and my husband just about broke her fall…  She was fine, but if he hadn’t reacted quick enough she would have had a rough landing…  I guess it wasn’t scary enough for her to just sit still.  Blu did this once too so I try not to transport them this way.  But they are SO difficult getting out of their pens…and they protest big time once they realize I’m trying to get them in their carriers or a box.  It stresses me out big time before we even get to the session and I know it bothers them too.  I have to figure out a way to get better at this…

 

Anyhow, if I don’t get to return to the process sooner, I will have an opportunity to have them in a neutral home at some point soon.  That might make it easier right??  We’re moving sometime in the near future (March at the absolute latest) but in the interim we may be living with my parents while we try selling the house.  I can’t really have potential buyers see the pens and hay and bunnies that occupy most of our living area….but I refuse to cage them.  So we might end up at another house before the new house, and I’m thinking that might be a good chance to try bonding that way??

 

Finally, is it a good sign if I see this?  (this is the baby gate that separates Oreo and Blu during playtime… Blu is playing and Oreo is waiting…

 

[Deleted User]

What a pretty gate. Very nice.

Yes, the new house will make your bonding a much easier experience.

Once they are OK in the cube, you can use it for all tranport to future sessions. Just make sure it is ziptied well, I had a mishap with a grid cube once where the bottom fell out~

[Lintini]

I bet you blamed the cube breaking on Deidras heftiness didn’t you!! rofl *no bunny was hurt in the making of this stress cube* !

[Deleted User]

yes, it was hefty Deirdra … She is not that large but just looks that way, proportionately! I ended up using a milkcrate after.

[Author]

Messages