Update on BunBun possible UTI/sludge

[Dee]

Hi everyone,

Well I was just thinking how well BunBun had been doing since his bout of GI stasis in August.- I think I jinxed myself.

 BunBun had some calcified urine in his bladder when he was Xrayed in August. I also notuced that both times he had belly trouble, I found a small amount of a thick, white substance on his chair and on his fur- perhaps bladder sludge…? So I know BunBun is prone to sludge, plus he will not drink much water at all- I’ve tried everything.

  On Tuesday, I noticed that he postured while urinating- stuck his butt up in the air and twisted a bit. He did that again today at one point, but he has done that before, pretty frequently for a couple days, then just goes back to normal. I freaked out the 1st time I noticed and took him to the vet, who said maybe a UTI, but he wouldn’t take antibiotics and he just got better on his own. So he does this every so often, but I didn’t worry too much until I learned about his bladder sludge. Now I’m thinking that may be a symptom of it.

  So he has presented with those symptoms, plus he didn’t come running for his dinner last night like usual, didn’t eat a lot of greens during the night, didn’t finish his papaya treats when offered, and spent all day on his “sick chair” where he went when he got GI stasis. He would go to the litter box, sit for a long time and kinda shift around, bu nothing dramatic, and then he would eat hay and hop out. He has been peeing each time, a rather small amount but in a few differenent spots each time. His urine is normal looking, not chalky. He has been eating hay nd greens, but hasn’t been his usual sociable self.

  Now he’s finally off his chair and sitting with Nelli. I’m still ot sure what was/is wrong with him- it could’ve been gas, but his gut sounds were normal, and it could be sludge or a UTI. Would something like this just get better, if it was sludge? I don’t wanna be stupid and not take him to the vet tomorrow if he keeps getting better, but I also hate to drag him there for no reason. I have a crazy work day tomorrow too, but I always work around my bunnies. I just won’t be here to watch him all day.

  Also, when he has these symptoms, do you think I should giv simethicone just in case it’s gas, and metacam in case he’s in pain? I never know whether to giv him meds or just leave him be, when he’s “borderline”, as in still eating/pooping/peeing, but not quite right.

  I will be checking back for replies, but if I don’t post back til tomorrow evening, I’m not ignoring you guys- just not able to take time to write! Thanks!

Dee

[Monkeybun]

Take him in. He does not sound like a healthy bunny. And what do you mean he won’t take his antibiotics? He won’t willingly take them? Most buns don’t. You have to hold them and force feed em. If a vet prescribes them, they need them. Most of the time something will get worse if you don’t give them their medicine.

Ask your vet about when to give simethicone and metacam. They would know.

[Sarita]

Simethicone won’t help at all with bladder sludge. I would get him into the vet as soon as possible – the sooner the better.

[Dee]

I’m finally home from work- thank you for your replies. It just never fails that the bunnies get sick before my busiest work days.

After I posted that BunBun was sitting with Nelli last night, he started acting normally again as far as eating, running around, hanging out with us. He didn’t do any more posturing in the litter box, but he does seem to sit for a long time. He does pee though, each time. This morning I found some chalky, beige substance in his litter box- just a small bit, on a piece of litter (carefresh litter) a bit smaller than a dime in diameter. Of course I was just on my way out to work (I have until 3PM to get my route done and if I call in, I would probably get fired). Plus BunBun was acting fine, begging for treats, grooming Nelli, and he gobbled down a huge amount of parsley- I was handfeeding him and he kept wanting more and more. So he did not, and does not, appear “sick”. I asked my husband to watch him today, and he said he was fine. He didn’t watch him in the litter box though- the most important thing to monitor! I got home and found several pee spots in the litter box, no poops bt that’s normal for daytime, and BunBun looked good. Then he went to the litter box and sat for a long time- no posturing, but he would kinda shift a bit and look like he was really concentrating. When he got out, I found a lot of pee- way more than he had been doing before- and some nice normal poops. Not even 15 minutes later, he got back in, sat for a minute or so, and did another large anoubt of pee and some poops. The pee is normal, not chalky.
I’m sure I need to take him to the vet tomorrow. I hate to take him, he gets so scared and Nelli won’t go in the carrier so he goes along, but I’m afraid he will get worse. I’m praying that he holds up OK through the night- if not, we have Tufts 10 minutes away.
I’m wondering why he is peeing so much more now though? Is it possible that he peed out the bladder sludge that I found this morning and is now more “cleared out”? Are there ever mild cases of bladder sludge that just need to be monitored, or do sludge bunnies always need to be flushed? I’m not trying to get out of going to the vet tomorrow- I’m just looking for info and hope, I guess. I’m scared about him getting his bladder flushed and it coming back, and him being in pain… just everything

[Sarita]

I don’t think there is anyone way that bladder sludge will be. I think it varies from rabbit to rabbit. However, I think once a rabbit has been diagnosed with it, it’s not ever going to go away permanently and always has to be monitored. I have never had a sludge rabbit act “sick” but I know they must be uncomfortable – wouldn’t you be? Refresh my memory, has the vet diagnoses Bunbun with sludge? Did he do an x-ray?

[Dee]

Hi Sarita,
When BunBun had his GI stasis in august, the vet did an Xray and said there was a small amount of calcified urine in his bladder. When I asked him if it was a concern, he said he wouldn’t worry about it- not sure if he meant we needed to deal with the GI issue or truly not to worry about it at all.
He has done that posturing thing once in a while, but always stops on his own. He doesn’t dribble pee and doesn’t pee outside the litter box often. I remember finding chalky pee residue near their litter box sometimes, I’m not sure if BunBun or Nelli did it. Since his GI incident, I watch him carefully in the litter box, so I’ve noticed that he will pee, then eat some hay, then pee in another place in the box. The only thing I see different now is that he seems to be sitting longer and just looks like he’s waiting for something, though he pees every time. Yesterday his belly was quite hard and bloated too- today it’s back to normal. If I didn’t notice BunBun’s long visits to the ltter box, I wouldn’t think anything as wrong now at all.
I have noticed that BunBun rarely drinks water. He used to, but stopped somewhere along the line. I’m thinking maybe it’s because I give him so many greens- his regulars are parsley, dandelion and collard greens and sometimes escarole and green leaf. They always have greens in their bowl- I refill it through the day, so I would estimate that they each get at least 4-5 cups of greens a day. Could this be too much, especially with these calcium rich greens? Also, f he is getting all his hydration from greens he won’t want to drink water. Do you think this could be an issue? I’m wondering too if I should forcefeed him some water, though I hate the idea of it. I put some apple juice in a bowl of water too, to tempt him- he refused it. He’s quite the picky little man- lol.

[Monkeybun]

If he already had alot of calcium in his urine, I’d cut back on the calcium rich greens, there are other greens that are good for him that aren’t as rich in calcium.

[Dee]

Hi Monkeybun,
That’s the same thing my House rabbit friend said that parsley, collard and dandelion greens are all calcium rich and I should try more green/red leaf and romaine lettuce, chicory and escarole. I mean, obviously BunBun loves his regular greens, but if they’re hurting him, it’s just not worth it to keep feeding thm to his hearts content. He loves banana too- but more than a little gives him poopy butt. I know there have been some articles saying that calcium rich greens may not *cause* bladder sludge and they perhaps should not be eliminated entirely from the diet, but I’m sure that large quantities can’t do much good if a bun is already prone to bladder sludge.
So last night I got somer Italian salad mix- it has baby green green/red romaine lettuce, lolla rosa (?), baby green leaf, raddichio, frisee and endive. The calcium content is only 2%. I mixed that with the regular greens and they ate most of it- and it didn’t give BunBun poopy butt- I’m so pleased!
And today BunBun is going to the litter box normally- he started going normally last night, and today I have seen him pee a few times, and sit in the box eating hay like he usually does. I’m very happy but I’m still uneasy… my vet closes at 2:00 PM today and with my luck, at 2:05 BunBun will start displaying symptoms again. Although I’m thinkng that if this as a UTI or bladder sludge issue, he would probably be getting worse, not better, right? Guess I will just watch him carefully and if he does anything weird, call either my vet or Tufts. Like I said, car rides terrify my bunnies and I can’t get Nelli into the carrier, so poor BunBun would have to go alone- I feel so bad for him, I only wanna take him if it’s an absolute must.
Has anyne tried giving their buns cranberry tablets or Sweet Meadow Vitamin C Tidbits to support urinary health? I have the Sweet Meadow Tidbits but I don’t wanna give anything that may do more harm than good. I read that Vit C may help the bladder heal from irritations.

[Karla]

Jack had UTI several times despite antibiotics. I gave him PetAlive UTI-free which is some homeopathic remedy for pets, also I gave him cranberry juice. In his case, it did not work, since there was an underlying cause for the UTI, which I could not treat…

UTI/Sludge is painful and you need to take him to the vet. He must be examined.

Do a search on sludge, because I have made a thread once with a link to a really good website with a list of the calcium level in veggies – also, it has a dynamic excel sheet that you can type in what you feed him, and it will say if you should feed veggies with more or less calcium. But actually, it is not the calcum level in itself – it is the balance between phospherus and calcium that causes the problems.
 

[Dee]

Hi Karla,
Thank you- I will definitely do a search- that website sounds great! And I never knew that it was the calcium/phospherus balance that caused the problems. I will try some cranberry juice too- and s for that PetAlive UTI-free, hopefully I can find it online.
It is now 1:10 PM and BunBun hasn’t done anything unusual in the litterbox since last night. He has peed just like he used to, with no fuss, and sat in the litterbox eating hay like he always has. He’s back to his old self, lounging around and popping up whenever I call his name to see if I might have food, begging for treats and greeting anyone who stops to pat him. That’s one of the first things I notice with BunBun when he’s not feeling well- I pet him and he just sits there with no reaction. Whenever he goes and sits on the farthest kitchen chair and turns his back to me, I get anxious. But sometimes he is just sulking- lol.
I’m really hoping that i won’t regret not taking him to the vets today. There is Tufts, of course, but I would prefer the familiarity and lower $$ of my vet. It’s just that I figure if he had a problem that needed teatment, it would not just go away like this… I would think that he would be showing worse symptoms by now.
I am gonna stay home pretty much all weekend, and if I see his symptoms returning, I will take him right to Tufts. I’m so torn- partly feeling like what’s wrong with me, I shoulda just taken him to the vet if only to get a clean bill of health… the other part thinking that if he’s acting fine now, whatever issue he had has resolved and I should not upset him by dragging him out to the vet.
This is what happened before pretty much, he was posturing and acting weird, then he just recovered. Strange. I would be interested to hear if anyone else’s buny had done this- I will look while I’m on my search.
As usual, I really appreciate all of your help. Thank you so much

[Karla]

Are you sure he did not have a blockage of some kind and not UTI? Has his cecals been smaller and harder than usual?

When Jack had UTI, he would go to the toilet all the time (and he had accidents outside the litterbox as well), and it never went away on its own. However, I do know that with humans it can go away without treatment (I have tried it myself, because I lived abroad and had not bothered to be registered with a doctor at the time), but not over a few days. We are talking one or two months then.

Make sure he drinks a lot and definitely look into that website if he has calcium in his bladder. Have you found hte thread? If not, then perhaps it is quicker if I find it since I will quickly recognise it. It was created in march or april 2010.

[Karla]

Wow, this search function is not easy at all

I managed to find the thread though:

https://binkybunny.com/FORUM/tabid/54/aff/1/aft/109807/afv/topic/Default.aspx

[Dee]

Hi Karla,
Thank you for providing me with that thread- that site is very informative, and the excel sheet was awesome. It explained the calcium to phosphorus ratio- CAH. I’m not good with weights of food, esp in grams, but I estimated that I was giving my bunnies this:
Parsley- 100G
Dandelion Greens- 100G
Collard Greens- 100G
CAH- 4.37

The ratio of calcium to phosphorus- CAH- is supposed to be between 1.33-2.1!! Now they mention that the phosphorus should not be higher than the calcium level, but I’m sure that such a high CAH ratio is probably not good either. I redid the chart with a diet of other things that my buns could eat, although they don’t like them as much. Here’s that:

Cilantro- 30G
Escarole- 30G
Dandelion Greens- 30 G
Lettuce- 50G
Parsley- 20G
Swiss Chard- 30 G
Watercress- 30G

This time the CAH Ratio was 1.94- much better, in fact right in range. I’m gonna try this and see if it helps. I really appreciate your taking the time to do this! I
know that it can’t hurt!

Yeah, I know what you mean about UTI’s- they don’t go away quickly on their own, even in us humans. I’ve had them before and not gone to the doctor- very umcomfortable. It can go into the kidneys if left untreated, but I think it mostly resolves on it’s own. I’ve read that lots of human ailments are like that- in the US we’re taught to run to the doctor and get a pill fo anything that bothers us, right away, rather than trying more natural methods. I read that most strep throat infectionss in kids will go away without antibiotics- yet I’ve rushed my kids to the Dr for tons of sore throats when they were little, thinking they had to have an antibiotic. But the bunnies are so much more fragile- I don’t wanna take the chance. Jack’s symptoms sound like BunBun’s were as far as the constant running to the litterbox, but now he has been sunbathing for a few hours and hasn’t gone at all. The last few days he had been going all the time- something has definitely changed for the better. His poops were normal the whole time- except for one glob of runny poop left in the night (on my new tan rug of course!). I did see him eating his poops though, his regular pellets, not his cecals. Weird- that was yesterday morning. Maybe he had a blockage in his urinary tract…? Perhaps some sludge/thick calcified urine kind of sticking in his bladder and the thick beige stuff I found yesterday was what he finally pushed out. It would make sense if such a thing is possible, cuz after that, he did those two massive pees when he sat for a long time (not to be gross, but the pee was really hot in tempurature too), then has been fine. Well, I’m hoping for the best- but I’m definitely switching his greens around!
On a lighter note, it must have been exciting to travel abroad, even with a UTI ! I would love to hear about where you went- I’venever been outta the States.
Thanks again!

[Dee]

Oh boy, instead of capital P in CA:pH Ratio, all those little tongue faces appeared instead- this is not my day for computers!

[KatnipCrzy]

From what I understand rabbit urine sludge is not completely understood- as house rabbit health is much less studies as dogs and cats that have been standard house pets longer.  (There are more owners now that will PAY for vet care as opposed to the livestock mentality that rabbits were stuck with in the past).

So you might find some conflicting info when you try to research it.  But from what I understand rabbits once they have it- are prone to having it.  I am not sure if there is a definite ruling on whether eliminating high calcium veggies from the diet is a huge help as it is debated is bladder sludge is a metabolic bone disease.

this following link might be helpful….

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Rabbits-…-build.htm

[Dee]

Thanks, KatnipCrzy. That link was interesting- you’re right, it’s so confusing to research bladder sludge in bunnies. I really hope that it can be controlled by a lower calcium diet, as opposed to the metabolic bone disease. The weird thing is, he doesn’t often produce anything hat looks like sludge. I’m not sure if the beige stuff this morning was sludge or just thick calcium-filled urine.

I’m really frustrated and upset with myself for not taking him to the vet today. Everybody suggested it, but he was acting so normal, I thought he was better. He was peeing normally last night and this morning. He was fine all day- actually he didn’t go to the litter box at all from 11 AM til about 6PM. I’m not sure if this is really good for him, but I wonder if he would be able to hold it that long if he was having a real issue. Anyway, when he finally went, it was just like last night at around 6PM- he sat for a long time and seemed to be really concentrating, and I could see his belly flexing . Just like yesterday, he peed a whole lot in both places he sat. So I thought he would go normally for the rest of the night- but no… just a few minutes ago he got in the box and did the same thing.At one point his eyes narrowed until they were almost closed- I’m afraid that may have been a sign of pain and I feel awful. I just don’t know if this is a situation that warrants taking him to Tuft’s emergency vet. It seems to be more of a chronic issue,he pees every time he tries to and was going normally this morning, and when he’s not in the litter box he’s fine. I don’t know if any good rabbit vets are open on Sunday around here. I guess if he’s still straining by tomorrow, I should take him to Tuft’s. I certainly don’t want to see him suffer, and I don’t want him to reach a point where he stops eating. This has been going on/off since Tuesday- he’s fine all day, does some straining at night (no posturing now though), runs around eating and playing all night, pees normally in the morning then acts great all day so I don’t take him to the vet… then back to the straining. I’m an idiot for letting this go on- so mad at myself. the worst that can happen from a vet visit is that he will be scared. The worst that can happen from NOT taking him is he could go through terrible pain and I could lose him.

I do have Metacam and Baytril… I’m thinking that maybe I should start him on Baytril. I have read that with both UTI’s and UTI’s from bladder sludge, Baytril is given to get rid of infection. If anyone has an opinion on whether I should give him the Baytril, please let me know! It seems that it really couldn’t hurt- he got a dose of it before and did fine as far as his stomache.. but I don’t wanna screw up any more than I alread have. Thanks for listening to my huge whiny saga.

[Dee]

I have an update on BunBun- will try to make it brief- I notice how my posts are always so looong compared to others. I’m like one of those obnoxious long-winded people everyone avoids at parties- thank you for not avoiding me despite this, everyone !

BunBun did his usual- a few bouts of straining last night, but producing plenty of urine and acting fine. He loved his new lower calcium greens- the cilantro, watercress and green leaf were a big hit! He’s had all these before (I wouldn’t have chanced starting him on 3 new greens all at once, esp. now!) but never seemed to like them too much. Guess he’s concerned about his health too- lol. Anyway, this morning I found quite a bit of pale yellowish, thick, chalky substance in the litterbox. I didn’t see him produce it, but I’m assuming it was BunBun, not Nelli. I saved it in a plastc baggie for the vet. Of course, BunBun has pulled his usual trick- he is peeing fine now, has been since about 3AM. But I’m not falling for this again- I got a list of rabbit vets near me, called to find any Sunday hours, and found the VCA Veterinary Hospital in Westboro, MA. The vet that was originally there was Dr. Innis, who sounded wonderful, but has moved on. However, it sounds like a great place and 2 of the vets there have education on small animal care. Dr Schettino does some special care/study (can’t remember quite what) on rabbits, and Dr Blais interned for a year for small animal medicine, I believe. Sounds like this place is well qualified to treat bunnies, don’t you guys think? We have an appt at 2:20 today- I’m so happy they are open on Sunday! It was such a hard call- BunBun seems so generally healthy and $$ is an issue for us lately, so I hated to take him to Tuft’s if it wasn’t an emergency. Yet waiting til Monday seemed too risky, as buns can get so sick so very fast.
I will keep you all posted on what happens at the vet. Also, if any admins read this, should I post a different thread with my update, or continue this one? I feel bad bumping it to the top all the time if I’m not supposed to. Thanks!

[Karla]

Best of luck at the vet’s! I have no idea what time it is right now at your place, but I hope for a good update soon.

If I were you, I would just update the title of the topic and continue this thread – that makes it easier for everyone to read.

[Dee]

Thanks, Karla . Well we went to the vet- BunBunwas so scared his little head was shaking, but I really liked the vet. He was very nice and not rushed- the only thing is I realized that he didn’t take BunBun’s tempurature- maybe he could tell by his ears. I know with my kids I can get within about half a degree what their temp is by feeling their heads, hands and back.
Anyway, he was very respectful of the fact that BunBun doesn’t get handled often. Instead of just hauling him out, he took the cover off the carrier and let BunBun sit in there for most of the exam. That way I could pat him and he was less frightened. He said that BunBun’s bladder is a bit larger than normal, but not big enough or sandy feeling enough to suggest lots of sludge. He also said that true UTI’s are much less common in male buns than females, and therefore he is thinking that BunBun has gotten a bit sludgy due to his high calcium diet and since sludge is difficult to pass, he has developed cystitis- inflammation of the urinary tract/bladder. This makes more sense to me than a UTI, since BunBun pees normally much of the time, sits all day without going pee, doesn’t dribble urine or pee outside the box, and has been generally fine as far as appetite/pooping/behavior. He said that he could get a sterile urine sample by needle to culture for a UTI, or he could do an Xray to check out the bladder sludge, but that many rabbits have some calcium in thier bladders, so that isn’t always really informative. He also didn’t like the idea of having to subject BunBun to all that unless it was seriously needed. He said that since rabbits have the risk of breaking their back while being handled (though it never happened to him) he really would rather hold off on such procedures.
So basically, he said that he would be fairly comfortable treating BunBun with Baytril if I was very anxious about a UTI, but that he thought it would be better to see if Bun improved with his new diet since Baytril can affect the gut flora and make bunnies sick. He said that if he continues to strain at night, he will prescribe some Metacam to use as needed. And if at any point BunBun seemed worse or he was not improving after a few days, we should go the Baytril route. He also said that BunBun seemed like a very healthy rabbit .
Now of course I have a new worry- BunBun is sitting with his back turned on his “sick chair” and refuses all greens. He will eat papaya, banana and a little apple, and he is nibbling on hay. This is the 1st time during this whole ordeal that he has refused greens when I handfeed. I really hope that all this trauma has not messed up his belly- although the 2 times he had gas/stasis problem, he barely touched treats and wouldn’t even look at hay. Wow, I am so hoping he gets better soon- seeing my little guy not quite right gives me this knot in my stomache that just won’t go away. Guess I will see how he does tonight- if he doesn’t regain his appetite by 8 or 9 I will give him some simethicone and Metcam.

[Karla]

If he has any trouble with his tummy due to the vet visit, I would not use simethicone, but Benebac/Fibreplex. It helps maintain beneficial microbial population in the digestive tract and works as a fibre supplement.

My vet was not very accommodating with tests et.c with Jack either. I had to look for answers elsewhere and get help here on BB.

I hope he is getting better very soon with his new diet – it would be great if his health issues are cured that easily

>>>Healing vibes to BunBun<<<<

[Dee]

Hi Karla, Thank you for telling me about the Benepac/Fibreplex. I will ask my vet for it- unless I can get it at a drug store or health food store. I really hope that this new diet helps too- it would be amazing. I know that some bladder sludge can be very persistent and become a real issue for a bunny- and his bunny slave!
Last night BunBun got worse- I posted a more detailed description on the thread Will a Bunny In Pain Flop?. But the quick version- ok this is me, semi-quick lol- is that he got quieter and sat with his eyes hlf closed, not moving much, and then didn’t eat much of his fruit/green dinner. I knew I had to do something, so I gave him 1/2 tablet of 22.7 Baytril and .1 ml of 1.5mg/ml Metacam. The Metacam dose was probably low, but I couldn’t find much online as for dosage info and didn’t wanna give him too much. I ‘venever given a bunny meds before, BunBun is a very stubborn, squirmy little man, and it was a nightmare. Lost one whole dose of Baytril cuz I missed his mouth. How does a rabbit’s mouth suddenly disappear?! I could hardly find it- plus I was shaking by then. But I guess it was needed cuz he’s seeming much better today- brighteyed, hopping around more, and eating in a kinda picky manner. Now it’s time for the next dose . I will give him the same Metacam I guess, cuz it seemed to help him even if it was low. Gotta wait for the vet to call me back about prescribing meds- he said if I wanted to try themat any point, just call, so I did. I don’t know whether to tell them that I’ve already started BunBun on something- maybe they will be mad. Good thing I did though- by today he would’ve been in terrible shape!
I hope that my vet’s reluctance to do procedures wasdue to the fact that Bunbun was, at the time, still appearing very healthy and comfortable, and his bladder didn’t feel that bad or sludgy. I did wonder a bit cuz people here seem to have vets who do urine cultures, by expression or needle, and Xray in a pretty regular manner. Are they really that likely to break their backs if handled right? I liked his compassion and personality a lot, but maybe I should look around still. Well, wish me luck with giving his meds- I’m nervous already. I’m such a wimp about this.

[Karla]

Since Metacam can kill in larger doses, it is good that you were cautious ( http://www.metacamkills.com ). For cats I know the dose is 0.1-0.2 mg/kg, but with rabbits, I don’t remember because it has always been dosed by the vet for me, and because here metacam is not given very often. Most likely the same dose.

Can’t you get fluid Baytril from the vet? Benebac and Fibreplex are available at the vet’s (and online shops).

When Jack was first diagnosed with UTI, the vet prescribed Baytril for 8 days to see if it would help. If it had not, then we would have done a urine culture because the bacterias can be different and require different type of treatment. If you have started on Baytril, you know you have to continue and finish the treatment? Otherwise, you risk that the bacterias become resistent to Baytril and then there is nothing you can do.

[Sarita]

The normal dosage for metacam for rabbits is .1 to .3 mg/kg every 24 hours. So the .1 is probably on the very low end of the dosage. There has always been a warning about possible renal failure with metacam as far as I know as well.

As for Benebac, there is no proof that this helps or hurts in anyway. Most of the bacteria found in Benebac is not even found in rabbit’s intestines, that being said, it certainly won’t hurt to give it to your rabbit.

Don’t think the Fiberplex is available in the US though.

[Dee]

Hi Karla and Sarita- Thanks for your replies. Sorry about the delay in response- I read your posts but haven’t had time to write til now. Actually, all I want to do is stay home, read/post here and take care of my Bunbun, but I still have the kids and all their appointments and work and… you know what I mean. We all have lives that go on even when our bunnies are sick- i find it very hard to balance them, I’m so anxious about BunBun all the time.

The vet prescribed me more metacam and Baytril- liquid Baytril- yay!!! It smells so much better than the tablets. The dose of Metacam is .25ml daily- just like you said, Sarita, I was dosing really low. So now I’m giving him .125 twice a day, which totals .25 but is more spread out. I worry about BunBun falling if he gets too sleepy from the Metacam. He’s always hopping around on the kitchen table and back of the couch when he feels OK- such a little daredevil. Fortunately he’s more coordinated than his wife, Nelli- lol. The baytril dose is .6ml twice daily- the strength is 15mg/ml. Hopefully that’s a good dose and not too strong. It’s really doing a number on his stomache- he will barely eat now. All he will do is eat a few greens or a couple pieces of banana, and he nibbles at his hay. I was tossing a little alfalfa hay on top of the regular, cuz he almost always eats that, but I’m afraid the calcium content in that is too high. Oh yeah- I got the Benepac, and used the gel kind since I could just squeeze it into his mouth. It seemed to help his appetite, cuz he’s eating hay now whereas before he wasn’t.

Bunbun was doing great yesterday, playing and happy and dug right into his dinner when I served it. But today he wasn’t so good- spent all day sitting on his sick chair. Then when he was peeing, he started posturing again. At that point I was getting kinda pissed that no urinalysis had been done, but I see that Karla’s bunny Jack was also prescribed Baytril without a urinalysis. I guess that’s usually the 1st line of defense for this kind of thing.
Has anyone else’s bunny really lost their appette with Baytril? And how long should it last, and at what point do you need to look at switching meds for something less irratating to the belly? I don’t wanna put him in danger of GI stasis, but I can’t just stop the Baytril either. The vet says that ass long as he’s eating some hay, his gut will keep moving- but that I must try to keep him hydrated. So I’m syringe feeding him Critical Care with lots of water when I give him is meds. I only get about 40 ml in him, but better than nothing.

[Karla]

For how long should BunBun be on Baytril?

If I were you, I would make sure he drinks a lot. So I would serve cranberry juice (if we still assume he has a UTI) or some other juice mixed up with water in a bowl next to his regular water. Also, give him watery greens like celery and pepper.

Perhaps you can buy some meadow hay mixes (usually in small bags and quite expensive) and mix in with his regular hay, so he eats more hay.

I hope he feels better soon. What is the next step if he is still ill by the end of this week?

[Dee]

Hi Karla, BunbUn will be on Baytril for 10 days- until next Wednesday. I will add some cranberry juice to his Critical Care mix that I syringe feed him- although I barely give him anything, just 60 ml , so I’m not sure if it will make a difference. Bunbun is so bad about drinking- just refuses. I even tried putting apple juice in the water, and making a mix of water and mashed banana- he won’t touch it. And of course he won’t eat celery or pepper- only green/red leaf or romaine lettuce occasionally. I’ve been letting him eat whatever greens he wants at this point, even the calcium rich stuff like parsley and dandelion greens- I think it’s more important to keep him eating at this point, and I’m feeding him parsley or something he likes (he prefers to be hand fed now- lol) and I try to offer him something he doesn’t want, he gets mad and stops eating. He really doesn’t make it easy for us! I think I will have to syringe more fluid than before into him. He looks better today- hopping around playing with Nelli, where yesterday he sat on his chair all day. I hope I’m not screwing up his med schedule- I’ve been giving him his meds more than 12 hours apart. I dread it so much, and I need my husband’s help so sometimes I have to wait on him. His med schedule has been: 1:00 AM Monday – 3PM Monday- 4AM Tuesday- 6PM Tuesday- and now he’s overdue for his next due- should have had it at 6AM. I hope that as long as he gets 2 doses within every 24 hours, he will be ok. It’s just that when he’s happy, eating and acting normal, I hate to grab him up and terrify him. He gets really scared every time, and struggles horribly. But hopefully it’s helping- I just wish I knew for sure. It seems to be one step forward, two steps back with him. But maybe today will be good. He did some alarmingly tiny poops in the night, which made me nervous, but then he ate a lot of parsley and did bigger poops, then ate some hay.
That’s a good idea about the nice hay- I wish they had fancier pet stores around here. He does have a nice high quality Sweet Meadow Farm Grass that he loves, and the Sweet Meadow Farm Organic Timothy and Herbs, but he gets picky with them too. I just got a bag of Kaytee Timothy and Marigolds- I’m not too fond of Kaytee pellets/treats, but BunBun likes coarser hay sometimes, so he might like that better.
I’m not sure what the next step will be if he’s not better by Friday. I think I may get a 2nd opinion somwhere else. The vet practice that I just went to does have a vet that does extra study in rabbit medicine, and I would love to see him, but at this point I would feel badly asking to see a different vet there. I would love to find a vet who is absolutely experienced with rabbits, so I could totally trust their opinion.
Well, I’m gonna make up the meds now. Thank you so much for all your advice, Karla- I really appreciate it . I will keep you informed.

[Karla]

I wonder in regard to his water intake that it might help to give him both a bowl and a bottle, if you haven’t already? Some like a bowl better than the bottle and the other way around.

Also, perhaps you should check his teeth? Just in case that he isn’t feeling low and not interested in drinking and eating as much due to dental problems.

As long as he gets 2x Baytril a day, he will do fine

Don’t feel bad about asking to see the other vet. You will feel even worse if something should happen to BunBun (I know ’cause I’ve been there). If you know the name of the vet, just call in and ask to see that person. They most likely won’t notice that it’s another one than your usual vet anyway, I guarantee you.

[Dee]

Hi Karla, I’m so glad that it’s OK, the way I’m giving his meds. I try to give extra time for his tummy to settle. Now he’s refusing hay, but he does that, then I catch him eating later. He was just in his box, shredding cardboard, and I see he has ripped apart quite a bit of my kitchen rug last night- so he’s acting more like himself- lol. As long as he hasn’t actually eaten the rug- I thought of that 1st thing this morning when I saw those teensy tiny poops.
About his water, I do provide a bowl and bottle- I think I heard about that from you to begin with . And his propr vet, plus the recent one, checked his teeth, so hopefully they haven’t missed anything.
I will definitely just calll and ask for the rabbit vet then- you’re right, the vet I saw probably idn’t pacing the floor, wondering when he will see us again and if we liked him. That would definitely be a concern- lol. I’m one of those people who worries for days if I think I offended somebody, but I know I’ve gotta suck it up and do the best thing for BunbUn. I’m sorry that you went through a bad experience with not getting the right vet- I think we have all regretted some course of action we took/didn’t take with our pets. I lost my little hamster over the summer cuz I didn’t take him right to the vet when I noticed he wasn’t eating as much dried food as usual. I went to Laconia Bike Week on vacation and by the time I came home, he had a massive infection in his mouth/jaw. My son didn’t notice (he was petsitting) and I took him his regular vet, and then a specialist, but it was too little, too late. I wish I had been more alert, but I justthought he was getting spoiled on all his softer, yummier treats. We can’t always know what’s best, no matter how much we love them. But you sure are helping me know what’s right and I thank you

[Author]

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