**Update: 3 month old gaining enough weight? Not eating enough?

[Ali925]

My bunny Blu will be 3 months old this week…and I’m concerned he hasn’t put on enough weight since we brought him home.  We’ve had him almost a month and as of this weekend he’s only gained an ounce or so.  Is that typical for some bunnies??  He’s a holland lop, they are usually 3-4 lbs and he’s 1 lb 15 oz at this point.  He is a bit smaller than my Oreo was at his age, so I might just be comparing him too much to her.  She was 2 lbs 8oz  when we brought her home at 9 weeks…  He’s likely just going to be a smaller bunny, but I also know he doesn’t eat a ton of pellets either.  I know at his age it’s supposed to be unlimited…I give him 1/2 a cup for the day and he doesn’t come close to finishing.  Maybe that’s all he needs being that he’s under 2 lbs?  Perhaps when he hits 3-4 months and starts becoming a grown-up bun, he’ll require more food then? 

However I know he eats the pellets and always seems to be munching on hay when I see him.  He drinks a ton of water too, much more than Oreo ever did (but it’s not a crazy amount or anything).  I recently started switching him from alfalfa pellets to timothy since he seemed to have some extra cecals around (this seems to have improved with the change I think).  So I also have incorporated some alfalfa hay since I’m not giving him alfalfa pellets (at this point it’s 50:50 in the transition).  He loves the hay and also has always loved eating timothy hay as well (I think he always has a piece of hay in his mouth when I see him!)

I have a vet appt scheduled for the end of May as  pre-neuter appt, but I am wondering if I should take him sooner to be sure he’s healthy?  From what I can see he is eating, drinking and pooping normally.  He is very energetic, but only at certain parts of the day, he’s a bit lazier than Oreo.  Again I hope that’s just a difference in bunnies and not reflective of anything else.  Overall he’s just much tinier than I expected, but doesn’t seem to show signs of being sick that I can see.  Also, would it be better to maybe keep him at 50:50 alfalfa / timothy pellets if he seems to be doing okay?  Or is it ok to finish the switch to timothy pellets?  I just don’t want to hinder his growth/development…

Thanks in advance…

~Ali 

[Sarita]

I would take him in sooner and do a fecal test.

[Ali925]

Okay, thanks Sarita, I just made an appt for this Saturday. Now I’m getting nervous. Do you think this is something requiring care sooner? I could make arrangements if I needed to go earlier in the week…

[Elrohwen]

I would also take him soon. My holland lop boy was 2-ish lbs when we brought him home and by 5 months was already over 4lbs (which is obviously a bit big for a holland, so not saying your boy should grow that large), so they grow *a lot* in those first few months. I would think that in a month he should’ve gained at least half a pound, so I would take him in.

Do you measure the amount of pellets he eats per day? I know it’s supposed to be unlimited, but when my boy was little I gave him a measured amount each time he finished his bowl so I knew what he was eating. At that age it was about 1/2c per day (though he was a little bigger than your guy).

[Ali925]

Great, now I feel stupid for waiting so long I thought I was in better tune with what I was doing. So now my question is, soon as in today or this weekend would be okay? Now I’m really worried.

[Elrohwen]

I don’t think you did anything wrong by waiting. As long as he’s eat and pooping normally, there wasn’t any way for you to know that he needed to see a vet. I would just take any new bunny to the vet and get a fecal test done, just in case, because you really can’t tell this stuff until time has gone by.

I don’t think he’s in any immediate danger since it sounds like he’s doing ok otherwise. Though I don’t think I’d wait for the weekend. You also might be able to bring in the fecal sample before you take him in for a check up if your vet will let you – then they can get that test out of the way early in the week.

[Ali925]

Thanks Elrohwen,
Sorry I overlooked your other questions…I read your response too quick. First off, thanks for your advice. My husband thinks I’m nuts and that there’s no reason to bring him to the dr now… and that I should wait for our late May appt.

also, I just realized it would be a good idea to start measuring how much he’s eating. I give 1/2 cup daily, same as I did for Oreo at that age. I think it was a while before she even finished that at his age and was bigger. Anyhow, I started today with giving a little bit less this morning (1/3 cup) and I’ll see if he finishes at least that. It could also be that he’s not a fan of the timothy pellets and picking out the alfalfa in the 1/2 cup? Like I said, I’m at 50:50 in the transition since I thought taking him off the alfalfa pellet would help with his extra cecals (and it has been helping). I just recently added alfalfa hay (he only had timothy when he was eating the alfalfa pellets)…and he loves the alfalfa. So now I’m thinking it might be that he’s not crazy about the timmy pellets… I started the transition after having him a few weeks, so I didn’t give much time the other way.

However, for the most part he seems very healthy. I know that from the start my husband and I couldn’t get over how small he was. But he was the same as the others in his litter from what we saw…and he doesn’t look sickly or anything. I figured he would just be closer to the 3 lb at full growth than 4 lb (where Oreo is). Some hollands can even be a little under 3 I think.

It’s also likely he has coccidia since Oreo (who came from the same mother a few months ago), had it as well (they were in outdoor cages). I had talked with my vet when I first got Blu and mentioned that he likely has it and should I bring him in before the pre-neuter appt. He seemed to think it would be fine to wait. So I did. But he might think differently if he knew he was not gaining much weight. Oreo didn’t show any symptoms , but we treated it anyway.

Thanks again..

[Elrohwen]

If Oreo had it, then it’s like Blu has it as well. I would take him in this week, in case that’s the problem.

And he probably is just a smaller Holland. They can be smaller than 3lbs, so I’m not worried about his current weight, just the lack of gaining in the past month. It’s good that you weigh him! Otherwise you might not have noticed.

[Monkeybun]

Definitely take him in… don’t listen to your hubby on that part. Better to be safe than sorry.

[Beka27]

I agree to take him in. An appointment on Saturday should be fine.

I just browsed thru some previous posts and a member in March (Schlaura) lost her baby bunny to coccidia.  Her bun was actively losing weight tho and then became lathargic, so I’m not saying Blu is at that point or anything, but it’s always better to get things checked out.

Also, I’m surprised that Oreo came from the breeder with coccidia and the mother didn’t receive treatment or stop being used as a breeding rabbit altogether.  Did you notify the breeder?  That’s very irresponsible if the breeder knew and didn’t seek treatment for the mother and any remaining babies. 

[Sarita]

I agree with Beka – this breeder is irresponsible if she knows and is not treating the rabbits.

[Ali925]

I was actually the irresponsible one here… I should have informed the breeder. I keep in touch with him, as I know he does care deeply about his bunnies and will ask him questions from time to time. I know there are horror stories about breeding…but trust me he’s not a bad one. He tends to just have a litter at a time, maybe two. It’s in his backyard, and has maybe 7 or 9 cages total…(with 1 bunny in each, except when there’s a litter). Anyhow, I just felt the need to stick up for him first off…I know the breeders can get slammed by everyone easily (and I understand why…and felt guilty buying from one…). He’s also not in tune with taking them to a vet or anything, but I’ve given him the name of mine for reference since my vet is well known for taking care of rabbits and he was grateful for the information. I know that’s no excuse for him, but he seems like he’s from the old school of thought not thinking about vets as much and just knowing how to care for the bunnies from doing it for probably 30 years or so. Again, no excuse, and I have since informed him of Oreo’s coccidia. I hope that he does the right thing. I think he’s just ignorant about it, and hopefully this will open his eyes.

Oreo was never ill or anything from it, the vet just saw it test positive in the fecal test and gave meds to take care of it. She’s fine now and I had a feeling Blu might also have it…but my vet seemed to think it would be fine to wait (unless of course i saw symptoms).

As far as Blu’s weight is concerned, I talked with the breeder last night and he was giving me weights of other bunnies, and basically saying he’ll likely just be a smaller bunny than Oreo. Anyway, I’ll be taking him to the vet on Saturday just to give myself piece of mind…even though EVERYONE, except the BB crowd (thank you ) thinks I’m overreacting and crazy. You know vet bills aren’t cheap, so that doesn’t help…but I made the decision to get a second bunny and I know it’s my responsibility to ensure his health to the best of my ability.

Finally, he does seem 100% healthy as far as his energy, poop, water intake, and overwhelming cuteness (sorry had to add that), and so forth. But I couldn’t live with myself if I didn’t get him checked out and something went wrong…

Thanks again for your advice. I’d be lost without this forum.

~Ali

[Sarita]

Ali, for the record, if it was a rabbit rescue that knew and didn’t treat, I’d feel the same way.

I’m glad you told him, now it’s up to him to decide whether or not to treat.

Let us know what the vet says – it may very well be that he is a smaller rabbit but best to just err on the side of caution.

[Ali925]

Sarita,
I understand your responses completely…I didn’t mean to sound offended or anything. I am very new to all this and I have so much to learn…

I really hope he does treat, however I think that would mean testing all the bunnies. My vet explained to me that it can be passed bunny to bunny or from bunny to human to bunny (of course the human is fine, but acts as a carrier to the other bunny when handling the next one). And since I know he handles all the bunnies it’s definitely possible.

I’ll let you know how the vet visit goes…I sure hope he’s just small and not sick!

Thanks again!!

[Beka27]

I honestly don’t know much about coccidia and routes of transmission… but it makes sense that a human could transfer it from bun to bun. You are a very well-informed bunny person, so I’m not concerned for you as much as the people who have bought babies form him and then suddenly 3 or 4 months later, they pass away and they can’t figure out why. This is how misinformation spreads. They may think the bun passed from giving it lettuce or giving it water and they publicize this, when really it was a parasite and they didn’t think the symptoms were important enough to take their bunny to the vet. And it’s good that you told him specifically what the vet said. If you had just called and (God forbid) said, “My bunny died for no reason. I want my money back!” he’s not going to know what is really going on. For all he knows, YOU caused the problem.

[Sarita]

He would not necessarily have to test all the rabbits – if his vet agrees and tests a few and he explains to the vet he is a breeder – the vet would most likely give him dosages to treat all of his rabbits if a few test positive.

[KatnipCrzy]

Many breeders use livestock meds and dose their bunnies(I believe in the water) to “control” to coccidia- that is extremely different than giving a prescribed course of treatment, waiting a few weeks and then retesting and getting a negative result- otherwise treatment starts again. 

It is usually younger bunnies that it is so dangerous to have coccidia as it damages their intestinal lining and if their immune system is not strong enough to combat and keep it at bay- the bunny (or kitten or puppy) can get extremely ill and it can be fatal.

A farm mentality seems to be preventative deworming and controlling intestinal parasites.  Where in house pets it is important to test and treat as needed.  But when you are dealing with larger amounts of animals I can see where it makes sense to have a preventative/treatment routine.  (not sure if your breeder does this or not).

Griffin had coccidia when I brought him home and I emailed his breeder just to make sure she knew (actually one of my dogs had coccidia also).

[Ali925]

Good news is, I did get an email response back from the breeder and it seems he had no clue that bunnies could get it, he thought only cats and dogs. He said they get their dogs checked twice a year for it so he doesn’t think the bunnies could have gotten it from them… But he’s definitely willing to look into what’s going on.

Like I said, I honestly think he knows a lot about breeding, proper diet, etc. since he does have healthy bunnies (they look healthy to me at least), etc… but not as much as he could know if he did some research and consulted a vet at times. I think, since he does have success with his breeding, he probably thinks he has it all figured out. Anyhow, I’m really glad to hear he’s very interested in fixing the problem, and I’ll be sure to provide more info on it so he knows the true danger. This is a clear case of lack of knowledge..and I will be interested to see if Blu test comes out positive for it as well…

I really hope that he does the right thing.

[Monkeybun]

That scares me, a breeder not knowing what diseases his animals can get..

[Ali925]

Yes, I agree… And I have only been a bunny owner for 7 months and I know…he’s been a breeder for many many years… I don’t understand.

[jerseygirl]

There’s a med (Ponazuril) that is really effective for treating coccodia in rabbits. More so than what has traditionally been used. Check out if your vet knows of / or uses it.

[Ali925]

Thanks jersey (..although that’s probably not your name), I’ll keep it in mind! I know for Oreo my vet prescribed Albon. But hopefully one of the large scale treatments can be used for my breeder’s bunnies… I wouldn’t want to give that for 10 days to just one bunny let alone 8 or 9..but of course if that was the only way I would.

However, I might be giving it to Blu if he tests positive when I take him to the vet tomorrow.

[Ali925]

So I took Blu to the vet yesterday and he doesn’t have coccidia! I was so happy to hear that. Second, the vet doesn’t think he’s unhealthy at all, just will be a little smaller than the average. He’s developing well, heartbeat was good, etc. He thinks there’s probably some dwarf in him (well obviously!) I think there’s a dwarfing gene even in pure bred hollands, right? I don’t know much about these things, but I think I remember reading about that… Anyhow he’s healthy and weighed in at 2.1 lbs. He’s just going to be a small one.

He also let us know he’s ready to be neutered whenever we can schedule it. He hasn’t been going nuts like Oreo did when she was sexually mature…so I didn’t think he was close to being ready. The vet trimmed his nails for us, which was great…but boy did Blue hate that! He was making ridiculous breathing noises through his nose to express his great disapproval…never heard Oreo do that..

Since he doesn’t have coccidia, there’s a good chance that my breeder’s bunnies aren’t as infected with it as I thought…good thing for him. But I’ll still follow up with him.

Thanks everyone

[RabbitPam]

Yea, Blue! *doing the happy dance*

He can join the small (pun intended) group of teeny, tiny members, ie. MonkeyBun.

[Beka27]

Very good to hear he had a positive check-up!

[Elrohwen]

I’m glad he’s ok! And 2.1lbs seems ok – he’ll probably max out around 3lbs which is perfectly within range of hollands.

Here’s my explanation of the dwarfing gene in hollands (and all dwarf breeds, actually; this explanation holds true for nethies, mini rex, etc). Basically, a rabbit can have zero copies of the gene, one copy, or two copies. Two copies results in a peanut, which is not a viable organism. Zero copies results in a false dwarf which usually gives you the ones that are around 4.5lbs or so. I think Otto may be a false dwarf (or he could just be large). It is possible to get a false dwarf that falls under the 4lb weight limit though – they’re not always that big.

One gene is the desired result, giving a true dwarf. These buns are anywhere from 2-4lbs I think (in hollands). So Blu is probably a true dwarf, but with extra small genes in his family otherwise (like a false dwarf less than 4lbs would have naturally “small” genes even without the dwarfing gene being present) making him on the small end of the 2-4lb range.

I hope that makes sense! Genetics make me excited 😛

[Monkeybun]

Posted By RabbitPam on 04/25/2010 06:47 AM
Yea, Blue! *doing the happy dance*

He can join the small (pun intended) group of teeny, tiny members, ie. MonkeyBun.

 

the Itty Bitty Bunny Club is accepting new and cute members hehe

[Ali925]

Thanks everyone Sorry been busy, meant to get back here sooner. I was so happy to hear he was healthy. Funny thing is, I feel like since I got worried about his eating he’s been eating really well! Even tolerating greens and loving them! I’m very glad.

Elrohwen – thanks for the lesson! It’s been a long time since I thought about genetics…but I used to like it! (I was a bio major)

Monkeybun – thanks for the invite, I think blu will gladly join the club I am pretty sure he’s cute enough… He’s definitely small enough!! How big is your bun?

Next step is the neuter..he’s scheduled for it on Tuesday…I hope he does well!

~Ali

[Monkeybun]

Monkey is 1.5 pounds

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