Unspayed rabbit, can she be bonded?

[ColorfulBun]

Hi! I was wondering that since my rabbit isn’t spayed, would she still be able to bond with another rabbit or is it an absolute requirement to get her spayed for a buddy? I really wanna get her a friend but I don’t plan on getting her spayed. 

Thanks!

[Asriel and Bombur]

I’m curious why you don’t plan on getting her spayed? It’s essential for her health as unspayed females over the age of 3 are highly likely to have reproductive cancers, requiring an emergency spay. She’s also susceptible to false pregnancies, which could really stress her out.

Usually it’s highly recommended all buns involved be fixed. Unspayed females are notoriously aggressive and territorial towards other bunnies and their living space, making it almost impossible to bond. Not only that, but fixed bunnies can often times feed off the hormones of an unfixed bunny, causing hormonal behavior in them as well.

[ColorfulBun]

I’ve went through this before… the explaining of why I don’t want to get her spayed. I can’t afford it, I still live with my parents. And the lady I got her from had many female rabbits that lived together in a hutch and they lived to be 13 years old without any health issues.

[Asriel and Bombur]

Okay, well did I know that? no. So sorry you have to repeat yourself. It’s a forum. Not everyone has seen all of your previous posts, and if they did they might not remember because there are dozens of people on here a day.

So, just because she did it doesn’t mean it will work out the same for you. It depends on the bunnies and their personalities, and the hormones of your girl when she is with another bunny. And just because her bunnies beat the odds doesn’t mean your girl will.  And to be honest, I think it’s sad to even have the possibility that your bunny could die because you didn’t want to take preventative measures. And to be frank, if you can’t afford a spay, you can’t afford a second bunny. You have no idea what health problems a second bunny could come with, or what they could end up having. Bunnies are expensive with vet costs, and having 2 doesn’t make it less. Not only that but if you try to bond and it doesn’t work out, can you commit to having 2 completely separate bunnies. Two separate play times with no interactions whatsoever. Do you have that kind of time and energy? Do you have the space? Do you have the money?

[Wick & Fable]

It is a downfall of forums that we can’t get a snap shot of what you’ve posted in the past regularly, so thank you for restating your reasons. My rule of thumb for posting is to put in all related details, just in case people aren’t aware of my situation because they’re a new member or maybe haven’t been reading my posts (unsure why. They are super interesting of course, haha).

Anecdotal evidence (stories from other people we know) can be really powerful and very valuable. It’s great that this woman could share her positive experience with female rabbits and their longevity. It’s also the job of a responsible owner to consider “but what if that doesn’t apply to me?”, which I think you’re hitting on nicely by creating this topic to ask whether it is possible.

Hormones are unpredictable as mentioned, so they add another big layer of uncertainty to two rabbit bonding. A rabbit’s personality is already a big factor, so throwing in hormones increases the uncertainty of a bond. To this end, it’s not seen as an absolute requirement, but very close to it.

If you do decide to try, it will be a trial in patience, supervision, and diligence. Rabbit personality may end up becoming a bigger factor than it is normally. Even in fixed rabbits, there are times when a pair aren’t compatible and the attempt is abandoned, leading to rehoming one of the rabbits, or having both permanently separated.

These are all things to consider. So in short, bonding an unspayed female has increased risk, although as you mention, it has been done.

What makes you want to get her a friend? Does she seem lonely, are you generic interested in having another rabbit, or is it in preparation for having less time with her in the future? Or another reason?

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[sarahthegemini]

If you can’t afford a spay, how do you expect to pay for a 2nd rabbit?

Save up and spay her. It’s not negotiable. I’m with A&B, it’s sad to think your bun could die prematurely because you don’t want to bother spaying her And yes you might find it costly as you’re still living with parents (I assume you’re a minor) in which case, your parents should do the responsible thing and pay for it. Call up vets and ask if they’d accept a payment plan. Do jobs and chores for extra cash. If you want to be a responsible owner, well, actions speak louder than words. Getting a 2nd bun is not the answer, getting your girl spayed is.

[sarahthegemini]

Also the breeder is obviously going to tell you that her rabbits had no health issues despite being unspayed otherwise she’d be admitting that she continued to breed or keep unspayed females regardless :-/

I don’t mean to be rude but breeders aren’t usually the most knowledgeable about spaying/not spaying because they obviously don’t do it…

[Nutmeg]

Bonding unspayed females is not 100% impossible – but it VERY rarely Works! For the reasons posted above.
And after having to keep my two apart for 6 months and then 2 months of bonding after they were spayed and neutered, let me tell you – its a LOT of work keeping two bunnies separate and having different outside play time and two litter boxes, to hays, to waters….

And plus, if money is a factor (the reason you haven’t spayed her yet) trust me – Bunnies are VERY expensive to take the the vet. It hasn’t even been a full year yet and I’ve already had to take each of them to the vet once for GI Stasis…. so NOT including the spay and neuter that cost me almost $500 in vet bills for those two bunnies because they are considered “Exotic”.

I would highly recommend that you save and get your one bunny spayed. I know that’s not what you want to hear, but maybe ask for that for Christmas or You start saving and maybe your parent’s match whatever you save.

Statistically 70% of un-spayed females will get uterine cancer because of high estrogen hormones before the age of 4.
That is a statistical fact – not just a random number to scare you.

I personally think you and your bunny would be better off going that route and a bit further down the road you could look at getting a neutered boy to try to bond with her.

It can be a LOT of work to bond two fixed rabbits (as you’ve read above, fixed rabbits are easier to bond) – just read my bonding journal that is 9 PAGES long and took Months!!

I know its not what you want to hear. But we are all offering advice from experience. Just like the lady you got yours from spoke from experience.

[A Happy Herd of Hares]

Yes it is very possible! And I don’t personally spay/neuter either…I’ve met lots of 8-12 year old unspayed bunnies, and bunnies are extremely sensitive with sedation.
Private inbox me for pointers, as many people disagree with me.
(Spaying a rabbit is ALOT more pricey then bunny care for two!)

[sarahthegemini]

Posted By Sadie Bun on 10/31/2018 5:53 PM
Yes it is very possible! And I don’t personally spay/neuter either…I’ve met lots of 8-12 year old unspayed bunnies, and bunnies are extremely sensitive with sedation.
Private inbox me for pointers, as many people disagree with me.
(Spaying a rabbit is ALOT more pricey then bunny care for two!)

Bunnies are at no higher risk of sedation when it is performed by an experienced rabbit savvy vet. And spaying a rabbit is not more expensive than the care of two…when one or both get poorly, costs can shoot up quickly. And an unspayed rabbit – as you have been told – is at high risk of developing cancer. Which not only would be awful for the poor bun, it would also be costly to treat and would involve an emergency spay anyway.

[Asriel and Bombur]

And the likelihood of them surviving an emergency spay is up in the air.

And I can highly attest to what Sarah said about poorly buns! I got both boys from the same breeder. Very reputable. Asriel is never sick. Bombur has a chronic condition that has costs me thousands in the year and a half I’ve had him. His vet bills alone have been over $5000. A spay is anywhere between $150-300. Depending on the vet and low cost programs in your area. So a spay is the cost of 2 normal vet appointments.

[vanessa]

I have had spayed and unspayed bunnies so I think I have a more moderate opinion. I bred my rabbits for the first year i had them, and i have seen all sorts of grumpy, agitated, nervous, skittish, aggressive attributes, associated with hormones.

To say that care for 2 is more costly than a spay, is not always true. I paid $50 to neuter my bucks, and $75 to spay each doe. When i take them to the vet, the bill is $85 without meds or xrays. Fir me and most others here, care for 2 is way more expensive than a spay for 1. But… Many here don’t take their rabbits to see a vet, choosing to self treat, and for them, spay for 1 is more expensive than care for 2.so the answer to that question depends on where each individual places their money. And i understand that we all dont earn the same.

Cancer… Read this article. http://buckysbunnies.tripod.com/UC.html

When I started out with rabbits, I gravitated toward the breeder sources of info, as i kept my bunnies outdoors and I bred them. At some point i decided to bond them, and after reading both sides, i decided to go with the “must spay” theory of the house rabbit society. Do i think it is biased? Yes. Possibly hysterical? Yes. However, I also believe that financial profit and reputation and pride, can lead to lies and ignorance. Not to offend your breeder friend. But I do choose to stick with the advice of an organization whose intent is the wellbeing of my rabbit, over one whose intent is to profit.

That being said… This article does have an anti-house-rabbit society slant. But i think that from a literature evaluation standpoint, it is solid. I don’t believe the number is 85%. I think it is closer to 40 or 50%. But that is still too high for me. I think the article is a good read. It is long, but i encourage u to read it all.

For bonding unspayed rabbits – your original question! I was never able to bond with my unspayed rabbits. I never attempted to bond them with eachother, but I sure did witness many many nasty fights from accidental meetings. I think the hormones make them so moody that bonding would b difficult, and dangerous, given their sharp claws and teeth. After spaying/neutering my rabbits, i bonded with them easier, and their grumpiness and nervousness subsided. So yes – I would jump on the house rabbit society bus and say – no they cant b bonded, because i evaluate the credibility of the sources I read, and when in doubt, i defer to the possible safety aspects.

Yes anesthesia and surgery r risks – to every animal and every human. But we choose them when the benefits outweigh the risks.

I hope u evaluate your sources carefully, and make the best choice for your bunny’s well being.

[BinkyBunny]

First and foremost – thank you everyone for keeping this thread from spiraling. This is one of those situations where both sides of the argument could get frustrated and give each other the stink eye with words. And that ends up going no where.  Other than some minor misunderstanding, I am glad to see it has not gone down that route.  As long as we stick with facts, respectful educational dialogue this can be something that we can learn from and can also help others in the future that come across this thread – regardless of what the outcome is here. 

Direct Messaging another member to supersede the information given here:  Sadie Bun – While that is fine and not against the rules, (and I understand that this subject can receive passionate and even hostile responses and that is why you are offering support directly.) , but I do hope that this thread can continue to remain civil and educational even with strong disagreements so we can all play an active part in educating without it going down a negative route.  I do encourage the OP to be sure to hear all sides, even with DMs. It’s comforting when someone agrees with us, but that doesn’t mean it’s always right. (Doesn’t mean it’s wrong either), but it does mean that there are several aspects to consider.  And I encourage you to do that. 

Bonding unaltered bunnies (or just one unaltered bunny):  Rabbits are social- herd animals and they do bond, but usually larger herds/groups have the space to get away from each other and form bonds with the ones they want. They can chase the others away. Also, breeding rabbits, that are able to mate, can create a different behavior dynamic.  And there is also a different dynamic when we take two house rabbits and prepare them to”bond”, their space is limited and they only have the choice of each other.  This adds a different dynamic.  There is not a one size fits all but there are some methods that can help with the later. (House Rabbit Bonding) 

It is possible to have one unaltered bun bond with a altered bun – we have had members who have done this, but, in general, it is not recommended.  Putting two rabbits together can already be a challenge, but adding hormones from an unaltered rabbit can make things that much tougher.  If someone tells me that they have an unaltered rabbit and an altered rabbit bonded for years, I believe them and do respect that, but  that doesn’t mean that I think that another person should attempt it when there are alternatives that can make things easier and safer for everyone.  I can’t tell you how many times someone thought they were getting a certain gender and it wasn’t….and then babies happened. We have also seen our fair share of injuries from fighting.   There is just so much more that can go wrong that can be prevented. 

Unaltered behavior:  Vanessa and the others have given you info about some of negative consequences already, so I am not going to repeat those.  But I have another one that no one mentioned.  The urine and poop scent.   I volunteered for a rescue for many years. On my volunteer day I would clean about 100 cages.  When we got a new “unaltered” bunny in, you could smell him/her.  And I was surrounded by 100 cages/litter boxes, so it’s not like it was smelling of roses to begin with.  But wow…the whole area where the unaltered bunny was, was so much more pungent.  He/she had to make himself/herself known even when surrounded by altered bunnies.  The urine was strong and the pills(poops) were skunky.  Ya know it’s not pretty when the scent of the just one unaltered bunny can overpower all the other litter boxes around. 

Bunny Health, Sedation/Anesthesia & Vets: Sadie Bun is right.  Rabbits ARE sensitive to anesthesia.  Their heart rate is very high and a vet has to give a pretty high dose to put them under. The vets have to be very knowledgeable about how to administer the right balance.  The good news is that in the last 20-30 years, more rabbit-savvy vets have become available.  With the rise of “House Rabbits”, exotics and rabbit savvy vets have the training needed.   Rabbits are living longer and so health ailments, like cancer and gi issues, certain diseases show up naturally due to the length of life.   Then those issues are addressed in the vet community.  Finding a rabbit savvy vet is essential anyway, regardless if you spay or not  – so here is a list that may be helpful.  Plus check out the info and advice about the questions you should ask a vet.  https://rabbit.org/vet-listings/

Funds:  Please see https://binkybunny.com/BUNNYINFO/tabid/53/CategoryID/4/PID/940/Default.aspx   I do not agree that the cost of spay would be more expensive than having two bunnies over a 10 year period.  Plus either of the bunnies may need vet care at some point.  You have two that potentially could need vet care for something else. Anyone of us can fall upon hard times and struggle if vet care is needed.  But if you know, before you get a second bunny, that funds are already limited then I think it is good to consider all the expenses.    It’s best to figure out your budget, include saving for vet care expenses, (good idea to call rabbit-savvy vet and get some of the “common” issues they see rabbits for and what they cost….then save for that).  And, of course, that is for one bunny.  Double it for two.   It is heartbreaking to see the countless times that someone has come here asking for medical/vet advice because they can’t afford a vet.  For someone to feel helpless, (and for us to feel helpless), when a bunny needs to see a vet is very hard – (Especially on the bunny.

So I encourage you to really think about this decision of getting another bunny because of your funds situation.  Later, if things get better or you are out on your own, you may have more choices.  I have a single bunny too. She is loved and snuggled and happy.  She is a senior bunny and still does binkies every single day.   Having just one bunny can still berewarding for both you and your bunny when a second bunny is not financially feasible.   

I hope you take in everyone’s thoughts and opinions into consideration. And if you don’t agree, that’s fine. We have done all we can with the information we can offer.  Just be sure to follow the rules and be respectful in your reply. 

[ColorfulBun]

Ok… so I read all of the replies and I just want to say that I don’t think I’m being cruel to her if she isn’t spayed. It isn’t just about money, my parents don’t think it’s necessary. I really want to get her a friend in the future, so spaying might be something I will do before getting her one. She seems lonely sometimes and I just feel like having another rabbit will increase her happiness. The lady that told me that she had rabbits live for a long time without getting spayed probably had them outdoors and I’m pretty sure that she had several in a hutch and they probably bred. My rabbit does have moments where she gets irritable and will bite and honk at me, but she has been extremely sweet lately. I’ve been spending more time with her and I just changed her hay to oat hay and now she eats so much more hay, I don’t give her many vegetables, and I feed her pellets only occasionally. She lives in a kaytee cage… I know it’s too small, she’s not in it all the time. I let her be free range when I’m around, and she gets to go into the living room with supervision. Her hormones do cause her to stink and I know that skunk smell very well. She has marked pee on my bed and carpet several times, that is a hassle but I deal with it. I will try to get her spayed if I decide to get another rabbit but right now it doesn’t work for us.

[sarahthegemini]

…how can your parents not deem it necessary? I’m baffled as to how anyone – with the knowledge that females have a high risk of developing cancer when unspayed – can still decide ‘nope it’s not important to us!’ Honestly that just shows how irresponsible your parents are.

[ColorfulBun]

My mom doesn’t believe the cancer to be completely accurate. Not all rabbits get it. Isn’t it our decision to get her spayed? It isn’t law

[Cocoa]

I’m a minor and I have two bunnies. They lived outside for almost a year because we listened to what the breeder said. She said they were fine outside. She also said spaying was unnecessary. When Lily and Cocoa turned 6 months old, they started being really aggressive towards me to the point where I couldn’t touch them. After a month, I convinced my parents to let me get them spayed and the breeder recommended a vet to spay them. Because of that vet Lily almost died. The vet scraped her intestinal wall when he was spaying her which caused her megacolon which took 5 months to diagnose. I worked for about a month to pay the $350 dollars. The vet also didn’t give pain meds so they both refused to eat. Lily lost half of her weight because of her megacolon. The vet also lied to us twice about which vet spayed her. We finally stopped listening to the breeder and found an amazing vet. They are doing amazing now. My point is breeders are definitely not always right. Even with this bad experience of getting my bunnies spayed, I still intend to get my future bunnies spayed because it is extremely important. I hope at least some of that helped

[sarahthegemini]

Posted By ColorfulBun on 12/15/2018 1:26 PM
My mom doesn’t believe the cancer to be completely accurate. Not all rabbits get it. Isn’t it our decision to get her spayed? It isn’t law

Just because it isn’t a legal requirement doesn’t mean it’s okay to not bother. You have a moral obligation to ensure your animal is happy and healthy.

Obviously not all rabbits get it. Noone made that claim. But it’s a HIGH RISK. Facts are facts. Your Mother needs to stop thinking she knows better than scientific research and do the responsible thing. Tell her to talk to vets (rabbit savvy vets), look online, read (up to date) books. She’ll find the information.

Honestly nothing angers me more than people who have the attitide of ‘it’s my pet, I can do what I like’ Just because you/your parents chose to have a rabbit does not mean they can play with her health like that. Ensure her safety. It’s the bare minimum.

[ColorfulBun]

I don’t want to come off as rude, but I can’t tell my parents what to do. And I will eventually get her spayed when I get her a friend. I just can’t do it right now. I don’t know why people can’t accept that.

[ColorfulBun]

It’s not that I don’t care about her health.. and my parents care about her too.

[ColorfulBun]

Thanks for the info Cocoa, I want to get her spayed whenever I decide to get her a friend, I’ll make sure the vet is experienced with rabbits.

[sarahthegemini]

No, you can’t tell your parents what to do. They should be responsible and do the right thing. It’s infuriating that they refuse to listen.

I’m leaving this thread now. It’s too upsetting to be honest. I wish you the best of luck.

[Cocoa]

Before you get her a friend I would make sure you have saved up plenty of money. I’ve barely had them a year and I’ve probably spent at least $2000.

[ColorfulBun]

Is it really that expensive to keep a second rabbit? My one rabbit doesn’t cost me hardly anything. I spend $50 here and there for her hay and pellets. It costs me $6 a month for a 40 lb bag of wood pelleted bedding, and I rarely feed her treats. 

[Cocoa]

Yeah, sometimes more. We had a few unexpected issues like mites and megacolon. Plus you need a second cage while you bond them. Then a larger one for after they are bonded which is easing $200+. Fresh vegetables can be expensive but they are extremely important too

[ColorfulBun]

Okay I will keep that in mind, I got her cage for free and I have a dog crate that I could use for the future. (And dog crates are way bigger and cheaper than rabbit cages) After bonding I would like to have them free range, in my opinion that gives the most entertainment and space for bunnies

[DanaNM]

Posted By ColorfulBun on 12/16/2018 12:02 PM

Is it really that expensive to keep a second rabbit? My one rabbit doesn’t cost me hardly anything. I spend $50 here and there for her hay and pellets. It costs me $6 a month for a 40 lb bag of wood pelleted bedding, and I rarely feed her treats. 

Hi ColorfulBun, 

I think it’s important to keep in mind that if you are lucky enough to have a bun without any medical problems, then it can be relatively inexpensive. But, when you bring home a new bun, you don’t know what their medical needs will be. So, it’s good to be prepared in case the new bun ends up with medical needs. For example, my girl Bertha has had zero medical problems, we’ve been very lucky so far. But one of my buns, Moose, seemed perfectly healthy when we adopted him at 1 year old, and ended up having serious dental issues in the short time he was with us, and we spent over $800 in about 6 months treating him. You just never really know! 

A lot has already been covered on this thread, but it might be helpful to you to show this article to your parents: http://msue.anr.msu.edu/uploads/219/38708/Uterine_Adenocarcinoma_in_Rabbits_Jan-Feb_20130001.pdf

It explains that the cancer risk in females varies by breed, and with age of rabbit. It can be as high as 50-80% by the age of four depending on the breed. No need to panic and spay immediately, but it is recommended to spay before the age of 2, and then this risk goes to zero, so this is something you could save up and work towards.  In the past, 6 or 7 was considered old for a rabbit, and it would be for an unspayed female, as you can imagine cancer setting in around age 4 or 5, so in the past 6 or 7 was considered a ripe old age for a female bunny. But now we know that with spaying many females will live to 9-12 years.   Not to mention she will be much less stinky and less likely to pee on everything!  

If you truly want to bond her (and I think it’s great that you want her to be as happy as possible), you can start saving up for her spay, or perhaps you can at least contribute (I’m sure your parents would appreciate that), as member Cocoa did with his girls. 

Also, thank you for sharing your perspective Cocoa, I know you’ve been through a ton with your girls (and your parents), and worked really hard to get them spayed and bond them! 

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Author]

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