Uneasy Bonded Duo Advice

[theo_ct]

Hi all!

When my soulbun passed away last year, we were left with a widow and an individual bun who lived separately for quite a while after. Just a couple of months ago we finally got them bonded, however the bond is not what I expected.

Hero (lop) and Pumpkin (small lionhead) do all the normal bonded bun things; grooming each other, hanging out next to each other, eating together, etc.

However, Pumpkin seems quite intimdated by Hero and Hero does seem to bully her. In the mornings they tend to chase, and Pumpkin has had quite a lot of fur pulled out by Hero, so we’re getting worried. Note there has been no blood or nipping, no injuries, just fur pulling. Pumpkin seems to want to spend a lot of time away from Hero during the day; often trying to go back to her own solo room from before she was bonded.

Is it possible that Pumpkin is really unhappy in this new bond? Anyone else had a funny bunny relationship like this?

All perspectives appreciated

Thanks!

[jerseygirl]

I am sorry for your loss. It is hard when we lose one of our fur babies.

 

“In the mornings they tend to chase, and Pumpkin has had quite a lot of fur pulled out by Hero…”

Is this very early in the morning when they begin to get active? Or the whole morning? Or does it coincide with when you’re giving food, topping up hay etc?

Once they were bonded, did you move them into a space that was formally Hero’s?

[theo_ct]

Yes it’s almost always in the early morning, and we arw usually asleep. After I feed them it’s normally back to friendship. Pumpkin has little bald patches from fur pulling… No blood thankfully

[DanaNM]

hmmm, it doesn’t sound like they are fully bonded to me, that amount of fur pulling isn’t normal in a bonded pair.

What did you do to bond them? Are both spayed/neutered? There is a “bonding template” pinned in the bonding section. If you paste into your reply filled out it would be super helpful!

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[Wick & Fable]

It sounds like Pumpkin hasn’t really agreed with sharing a space with Hero if there is an insistence on the fur pulling during those active early morning periods. It actually sounds very much like the dynamic between my two rabbits that are currently  being bonded.

What sort of steps did you go through in terms of introducing them and allowing them time to work out their hierarchy?

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[theo_ct]

Hi both,

They are both spayed, bonded over about a month in a small space gradually expanding across another month after dates.

Should we separate them to protect Pumpkin…?

Keen to hear your advice

[Wick & Fable]

There is a template created by Dana that’s pinned on the Bonding forum section. It would be helpful to have that information to get a better sense of the situation and what the progress was over the month!

 

If there is bullying, especially leading Hero to stay in a corner, small space, not eat as much, etc, then it would be good to separate and go back to the bonding drawing board. While one rabbit is dominant, they shouldn’t dominate. This is actually a dynamic I’m working with in my pair. My Male rabbit is very much bullying the female. Although they can both be free roam essentially 24/7, he prevents her from eating and roaming as much as she would want. Although my female still (miraculously) grooms him, the bullying behavior is not something I want to carry on and potentially escalate. That chronic stress can be damaging for her.

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[theo_ct]

Did you allow the bunnies to “settle-in”?

yes – we supervised them 24/7 in a larger area pen after just over a month of increased dating. they did not chase or fight during this time, and after two weeks or so of being in there, we gradually expanded to the whole room, and now free roam. Now they are in another room, in a pen at night, and the fur pulling happens in the morning mostly

How would you describe your bunnies reactions towards each other (answer for each bunny): shy, scared, curious, calm, aggressive, excited, affectionate, etc.?

They are three things; one, affectionate and mutual grooming and loafing. two, pumpkin gets scared of hero and is intimidated or being bullied. three, ignoring each other.

Have you done any “pre-bonding” (cage or litter box swaps, etc.)?

Some litter swapping during early bonding stage – about a week

How long have you been working on bonding your bunnies?

Overall about 4 months up to now
How frequently do you have bonding sessions, and how long are they?

They are now at the living togther stage – but sessions were everyday for up to 6 hours, eventually entire days, building up to 24/7

Have you tried any stressing?

No – we do not have a car and its currently very hot, so we didnt try it

[DanaNM]

Thanks for filling out the template!

I wonder if this started up because you moved them to a new room? I notice you mention they were in one room mostly, and then moved? Or was this behavior happening all along?

New bonds are sometimes pretty sensitive to changes. Can you possibly move them back to the last location where they got along perfectly?

Have you been able to identify a trigger that causes them to start chasing/fur pulling? Like perhaps an un-met grooming request, or fighting over the litter box or food?

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[theo_ct]

This kind of behaviour was happening during early stages, but there was a golden period where everything seemed rosy. The newest room does seem to have made things more complicated, but we can’t figure out why. It’s not that much bigger than the previous room and their set up is the same.

Do you think it’s an option to have them penned separately in the same room at night, or is that a bad idea? Just for safety whilst we work this out

As for triggers we arent sure. It used to be because of unmet grooming, but that seems to have passed after bunny dating. Sometimes it seems like Hero just doesnt want Pumpkin to be in certain places

Thanks for your help

[jerseygirl]

What do you have in the night pen?

Sometimes the litter box or a hidey-house can trigger some territorial behaviours. If there is one litter box, I’d try adding another.

I do wonder if some of the chasing is happening in other places but dissipates by itself but  in the pen, Hero is more likely to be able to get purchase on Pumpkins fur due to the smaller space.

[theo_ct]

We did actually add a second litterbox, one in their tray the other outside. We thought it would help but apparently not – we could try moving both outside, or removing the tray?!

I have noticed a couple of incidents of chasing when they free roam in the day but it comes to an end as Pumpkin gets away from Hero.

[Wick & Fable]

I have found that two litterboxes sometimes makes things tense between the two rabbits I’m bonding. The dominant one will herd the other to stay and use just one of them and the dominant one has more “claim” to another. Is that something you have observed at all?

The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.

[theo_ct]

Interesting. It does seem a bit that way – but mostly because they prefer to use just the one outside tray instead of the inside one. We can try some new configurations and see if that helps perhaps.

[DanaNM]

The new room might have stirred things up just because it was new and they were in their honeymoon phase. Some pairs have to re-establish things in each new territory.

When you were first bonding them, did they do better with less space? Wondering if starting a bit smaller might help them at first, then you can slowly expand to the full room again.

I had one pair that was kind of touchy (mostly due to a medical issue with one bun), so I had to do occasional bonding sessions with them (I called it “couples therapy”). You might try a bit of stressing ( you can put them in a carrier or bin together on top of the washing machine, or even just walk around the block with them if a car ride isn’t an option), or some banana on heads. Or I used to put them in a pen together in the middle of the room and vacuum around them (scary feelings that remind them it’s nice to have a friend), followed up with banana (happy lovey feelings).

. . . The answers provided in this discussion are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. Seek the advice of your veterinarian or a qualified behaviorist.  

[theo_ct]

Thank we will try that. Last night they were actually okay – that was after they had spent most of the day in separate rooms, meeting again only in the evening. No pulling or chasing. However, we’re keeping an eye on things and the suggestions have given us lots to work with! Thank you all

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